View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Also quite nauseating to hear Miliband banging on about a public enquiry previously, when he was involved in trying to ensure there was no public enquiry into the Iraq war. And your evidence of this is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 It's not proven that it was fabricated. All we know is that there was bad intelligence. it was fabricated mate...this is from someone who works in intel in my field....so many reports from the MoD are available to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 I have the inside story: This unfortunate NOTW reporter has been secretly assassinated by that notorious MI5 hit man, the Duke of Edinburgh, who is being blackmailed by David Cameron into this desperate measure because the PM has threatened to revel the real truth behind Princess Diana's 'accident'. Phil broke into his Watford property (note: conveniently close to Windsor Castle) in the dead of night (while his wife kept watch outside standing on a grassy knoll) and left one of those highly radioactive Honda Accord's they're not telling us about in his garage - a terrible fate indeed. The PM (AKA 'Big Dave') will certainly next seek to silence the Murdoch's before they can appear before the Parliamentary Select Committee by arranging for their apparent 'Suicide' at the earliest opportunity - watch this space. Meanwhile, an elite SAS hit squad will be sent into downtown Tripoli next week on a undercover mission to abduct Colonel Gaddafi and bring him back to the UK so that Liam Fox (the mastermind behind the entire phone hacking plot) can claim credit and emerge as the leading candidate to succeed Cameron as the next PM - its all a right wing plot you see. If I don't post anything tomorrow I fear it will be because by that time I will be appearing as a central tunnel support on the Jubilee Line extension. I am of course, amused by your narrative - and enjoy your overall point, that fanciful conspiracy can be far more attractive than cold hard coincidence, but on this occasion, there are other factors. I find it amazing that the police are almost immediately able to rule the death as "not suspicious". Given the deceased's profile and what he might know, I would have thought his death to be very suspicious, especially if I was employed in a capacity where suspicion is a positive character trait. How much investigation could they have seriously conducted about his state-of-mind and whereabouts in the few short hours it took to announce that there was "nothing to see here"? My opinion on Cameron is that he's on his way out. I honestly don't believe that the Tory mandarins didn't do their homework on Coulson. They have the connections to get full disclosure on Coulson, even if it was just off-the-record, and I'm sure they did. His alleged involvement in the hacking scandal was public knowledge. It is not something they'd overlook or be fobbed off over. So I reckon Cameron knew, and that we're getting closer to the point where that becomes a matter of public record. I also think it likely that phone hacking has already been used in political campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 it was fabricated mate...this is from someone who works in intel in my field....so many reports from the MoD are available to read No doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Which speaks volumes for the power that NI once had. Thankfully that's gone for ever and hopefully politics will be better for that. The issue for me is did NOWT hack politicians/the police and did this lead to effective blackmail? It wouldn't surprise me. Like most people I wasn't really bothered about Andy Gray and few celebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 And your evidence of this is? It's a matter of public record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 The issue for me is did NOWT hack politicians/the police and did this lead to effective blackmail? It wouldn't surprise me. Like most people I wasn't really bothered about Andy Gray and few celebs. The answer to which, I'd like to think, we all want to know and are all disgusted by the way it's looking. This, to me, transcends party politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 it was fabricated mate...this is from someone who works in intel in my field....so many reports from the MoD are available to read So you are saying that this massive conspiracy that the Labour government deliberately fabricated intelligence is just available to read by any old intelligence worker? You are saying it is THAT available and easy to find; and that the evidence of this hasn't been leaked and published by any of the press/political parties/enemies of the war. Come on now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 It's a matter of public record. I'm sure you can supply some then, how he pushed to stop an enquiry, which, for the record, we should have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 He's in more danger from his own right wing. And so he should be. The Tories will never win a majority until they move back to the right because they cannot win enough marginals with UKIP in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 The issue for me is did NOWT hack politicians/the police and did this lead to effective blackmail? It wouldn't surprise me. Like most people I wasn't really bothered about Andy Gray and few celebs. It was said recently that NOTW targeted police officers in 'sensitive positions'. Bloody disgusting, and all under Coulson and Brooks' watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 It's a matter of public record. He voted against a public enquiry into Iraq in 2006, 2007 and 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 And so he should be. The Tories will never win a majority until they move back to the right because they cannot win enough marginals with UKIP in play. Not really, you have to move to the centre to win elections these days. Just look at New Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 I'm sure you can supply some then, how he pushed to stop an enquiry, which, for the record, we should have had. He voted against a public enquiry into Iraq in 2006, 2007 and 2008. There you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 So you are saying that this massive conspiracy that the Labour government deliberately fabricated intelligence is just available to read by any old intelligence worker? You are saying it is THAT available and easy to find; and that the evidence of this hasn't been leaked and published by any of the press/political parties/enemies of the war. Come on now! out of your depth...there were no WMDs.......there never was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Cameron, Hunt, May & Boris have all been flapping whilst events have overtaken them in recent weeks. The Conservative leadership have displayed an astounding lack of empathy with events and decisions, quotes and actions are coming back to bite them firmly on the bottom. A few Conservatives have shown the leadership the way, but those at the top have been found wanting over this sorry saga. Clegg & Cable have kept their heads below the parapet, when in reality they could well be getting stuck in as their powder is somewhat dry and untainted from Murdoch's influence (then again I saw a Tweet saying the Liberals claiming to be immune from being sucked in by Murdoch is akin to a really ugly person stating they are proud to be celibate!!). Prescott, Watson and a few others have led from the front and even though I don't particularly rate Milliband, he has been leading Cameron by the nose and has been setting the pace throughout, calling everything a few days ahead of Cameron. He certainly has judged this right. I just wonder whether Cameron's indecision and lack of leadership is die to him being really concerned that something connecting him to all this will be uncovered soon as he certainly looks out of sorts (then again it is at times of a crisis that you get to see the true mettle of individuals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 There you go. Nothing to do with a 3 line party whip then. Nope, no way. Career politician towing the party line. Whatever next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Here's a link: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?mpn=Edward_Miliband&mpc=Doncaster_North&house=commons&dmp=975&display=allvotes And he has the gall to criticise the current government for waiting a few days before announcing the details of this inquiry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Nothing to do with a 3 line party whip then. Nope, no way. Career politician towing the party line. Whatever next? Oh, it's ok then. He was just following orders. Look, no one has the moral highground on this issue at all but cat-calls for PM resignations are just absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 out of your depth...there were no WMDs.......there never was I wasn't questioning that, I'm well aware that we now know that in 2003 he had no Weapons of Mass Destruction. I was questioning the legitimacy and the provenance of your claims. My point stands. If what you say is true and the solid hard evidence that this intelligence was fabricated was THAT easily accessible and well known, it would have been leaked or discovered by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Oh, it's ok then. He was just following orders. Look, no one has the moral highground on this issue at all but cat-calls for PM resignations are just absurd. As I said, he's his own right wing to me more concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 I just wonder whether Cameron's indecision and lack of leadership is die to him being really concerned that something connecting him to all this will be uncovered soon as he certainly looks out of sorts (then again it is at times of a crisis that you get to see the true mettle of individuals). Let's put it out there. He has shown weak leadership. Whether that is for fear of what might be revealed or a genuine inability to grasp the nettle is immaterial really. The man has lost a lot of authority, and if he flutters this much over phone-hacking, who knows how he'll cope if the sh-i-t really hit the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 18 July, 2011 Author Share Posted 18 July, 2011 This Panorama programme on right now is an eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Let's put it out there. He has shown weak leadership. Whether that is for fear of what might be revealed or a genuine inability to grasp the nettle is immaterial really. The man has lost a lot of authority, and if he flutters this much over phone-hacking, who knows how he'll cope if the sh-i-t really hit the fan. Weak leadership, poor judgement, being reactive not proactive, playing catch up, making wrong calls etc etc etc, all not particularly good traits for a PM. He's just been out of touch with others in this scandal, with Norman Fowler (former journalist and editor) calling fo an inquiry a month before Cameron finally caught up. Incompetence, or something more sinister??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Not really, you have to move to the centre to win elections these days. Just look at New Labour. That's rubbish. There is a huge anti EU and anti mass immigration vote to be won. This is the ticket that the Conservative party should campaign on. Analysis of results shows that in at least 21 key marginal seats, Ukip’s share of the vote proved enough to allow Labour or the Lib Dems to see off strong Tory challenges. The extra victories would have been enough to fill the 20-seat shortfall needed to hand David Cameron an outright majority in the Commons. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/liberaldemocrats/ And UKIP's support is growing at a pace since the election so the problem can only get worse for the Tories. UKIP finnished 2nd in the Barnsley by election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 That's rubbish. There is a huge anti EU and anti mass immigration vote to be won. This is the ticket that the Conservative party should campaign on. Analysis of results shows that in at least 21 key marginal seats, Ukip’s share of the vote proved enough to allow Labour or the Lib Dems to see off strong Tory challenges. The extra victories would have been enough to fill the 20-seat shortfall needed to hand David Cameron an outright majority in the Commons. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/liberaldemocrats/ And UKIP's support is growing at a pace since the election so the problem can only get worse for the Tories. UKIP finnished 2nd in the Barnsley by election. You could make the same arguments for the slightly left of centre vote(which may I add is larger than the slightly right of centre vote as the Tory party effectively monopolises that). The real issue here though is that it's not big enough. Most people are in the centre, hence why parties always move to the centre come election time. If I were a conservative, I would be very worried about the collapse of the Lib Dem vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 You could make the same arguments for the slightly left of centre vote(which may I add is larger than the slightly right of centre vote as the Tory party effectively monopolises that). The real issue here though is that it's not big enough. Most people are in the centre, hence why parties always move to the centre come election time. If I were a conservative, I would be very worried about the collapse of the Lib Dem vote. I would argue that thinking we have too many immigrants and that the EU should be a trade organisation is a centre ground view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 I would argue that thinking we have too many immigrants and that the EU should be a trade organisation is a centre ground view. No, that's just your opinion. You aren't the centre ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 No, that's just your opinion. You aren't the centre ground. These views are widespread. With respect you are a child and as such I can understand why you are so naive relying on this forum to gauge opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 These views are widespread. With respect you are a child and as such I can understand why you are so naive relying on this forum to gauge opinion. It doesn't matter how widespread your views are, it doesn't make them centre ground. The centre ground doesn't move with popular opinion. The political spectrum is fixed. Edit: And please, if you have a point to make, make it. Why resort to a personal swipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 And Dune, if your view set is centre ground, what the hell is right wing?! At least I can admit to being left of centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 If the political spectrum is fixed... Who fixed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Hang on, how the hell have we managed to allow dune to drag yet another thread into one of his left v right rants about UKIP? dune, seriously... change the f***ing record. It's getting a wee bit tiresome now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 If the political spectrum is fixed... Who fixed it? There are right wing views, left wing views and those of a third way and all those in between. The right wing does not suddenly become the centre ground political views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 If the political spectrum is fixed... Who fixed it? Interesting point really. It's my opinion that when anyone starts talking about left and right then they're avoiding issues. They're labels for both sides. In mainstream politics (no Dune that doesn't include UKIP) there really isn't much left or right but sometimes it suits them to use those labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 There are right wing views, left wing views and those of a third way and all those in between. The right wing does not suddenly become the centre ground political views. Ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Hang on, how the hell have we managed to allow dune to drag yet another thread into one of his left v right rants about UKIP? dune, seriously... change the f***ing record. It's getting a wee bit tiresome now. Don't feed the troll! It's hard sometimes though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Interesting point really. It's my opinion that when anyone starts talking about left and right then they're avoiding issues. They're labels for both sides. In mainstream politics (no Dune that doesn't include UKIP) there really isn't much left or right but sometimes it suits them to use those labels. Agree, good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Anyways back to the issue at hand(sort of). Lulzsec are back, and they just hacked the Sun. Site recovered now, but screenshot is here - Update: Suns website now redirects to Lulzsec's twitter account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Chief NOTW whistleblower found dead. Sus as F*ck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Mods - any chance of taking the schoolboy fight posts out of here. This is about following the information as it comes out and the noise causes you to lose really good posts like the one by UP up above. This is bigger than party politics. Somebody right at the heart of this has now died in unexplained circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Anyways back to the issue at hand(sort of). Lulzsec are back, and they just hacked the Sun. Site recovered now, but screenshot is here - Update: Suns website now redirects to Lulzsec's twitter account. Nice. Reading their twitter account now. Most amusing. [url=http://twitter.com/#!/lulzsec][/url]http://twitter.com/#!/lulzsec "We have joy, we have fun, we have messed up Murdoch's Sun" Hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Weak leadership, poor judgement, being reactive not proactive, playing catch up, making wrong calls etc etc etc, all not particularly good traits for a PM. He's just been out of touch with others in this scandal, with Norman Fowler (former journalist and editor) calling fo an inquiry a month before Cameron finally caught up. Incompetence, or something more sinister??? While it'd be easy to paint Cameron as an out-of-touch toff whose elevation to PM is entirely a product of the old boys network, the man has had one of the best educations you can buy in this country. Competence shouldn't be an issue. More likely, he's compromised. This is playing out like a Mexican stand-off at the moment. It'll be interesting to see if and when he takes the offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 This is bigger than party politics. Indeed. There are polls out tonight showing all three main party leaders popularity ratings are down on previous polls. Miliband is down less than Cameron but I'd have expected to see a small rise in his popularity, given recent events. Just goes to show that the British public, in the main, appear to be seeing through the party politics on this one. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 This LulzSec hack is brilliant. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/18/sun-website-hacked-lulzsec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 The media really just don't get Lulz Sec though. Check out Sky News here just a minute ago. Really shows the knowledge of their Anchor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG7IURgryjA 'The Louise Boat'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 The media really just don't get Lulz Sec though. Check out Sky News here just a minute ago. Really shows the knowledge of their Anchor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG7IURgryjA 'The Louise Boat'. Hahaha. What a bunch of fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 18 July, 2011 Share Posted 18 July, 2011 Hahaha. What a bunch of fools. I was laughing so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 19 July, 2011 Share Posted 19 July, 2011 Do people really think that this Hoare chap was "taken Out"? Or could it be that due to his history of drink and drug abuse he either relapsed and od'd or his body finally succumbed to the abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 19 July, 2011 Share Posted 19 July, 2011 It looks like there is no end to this storm. It now looks as if it might engulf Cameron. It would be ironic if it kills off this government when Tony Blair got away with the dodgy dossier and an illegal war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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