SaintBobby Posted 14 July, 2011 Posted 14 July, 2011 I have actually considered that, and am surprised if I'm honest. Of course no-one has any clue how much a marketing campaign would cost the club (and whether the increased revenues would offset the costs involved), but I'm surprised it hasn't at least been tried. It's not as if we're selling out every week. Perhaps its an avenue of promotion that the club just don't believe is cost-effective. I think this sums it up for me. Last season, I was whining about not receiving reminders in glossy envelopes by post. Wondering why there weren't billboard posters round the city. Asking if direct mail should be tried. Turns out they did f**k all and still pushed the numbers up. I'm renewing my three season tickets come what may. If they doubled the prices, I'd probably still do it. They don't need to write to me. They don't need to put the prices on a website. I will phone a premium rate number just to find out what the prices are. Sure, I'd like a nice thank you letter from Cortese, a glossy brochure with prices etc. But that's just indulgence. It might just be the case that there are c.10,000 people like me. You don't need to market to us. We're going to lap it up anyway. Of course, at the margins, if you send out enough direct mail it will yield some results. There will be a few people who - like a poster above - have the reminder letter on their desk and after having glanced at it 27 times decide finally to renew. But there might not be many of these people. And they would be very hard to identify. To get a letter on their desk you need to also send letters to thousands of people who will renew anyway. On a cost-benefit analysis, it might not be worth it. You might be better spending the money on improving the website, launching a brand of Saints beer, taking on two more staff in the ticjet office etc etc.
The9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I think this sums it up for me. Last season, I was whining about not receiving reminders in glossy envelopes by post. Wondering why there weren't billboard posters round the city. Asking if direct mail should be tried. Turns out they did f**k all and still pushed the numbers up. I'm renewing my three season tickets come what may. If they doubled the prices, I'd probably still do it. They don't need to write to me. They don't need to put the prices on a website. I will phone a premium rate number just to find out what the prices are. Sure, I'd like a nice thank you letter from Cortese, a glossy brochure with prices etc. But that's just indulgence. It might just be the case that there are c.10,000 people like me. You don't need to market to us. We're going to lap it up anyway. Of course, at the margins, if you send out enough direct mail it will yield some results. There will be a few people who - like a poster above - have the reminder letter on their desk and after having glanced at it 27 times decide finally to renew. But there might not be many of these people. And they would be very hard to identify. To get a letter on their desk you need to also send letters to thousands of people who will renew anyway. On a cost-benefit analysis, it might not be worth it. You might be better spending the money on improving the website, launching a brand of Saints beer, taking on two more staff in the ticjet office etc etc. That's fair enough regarding a mailshot, but the cost of writing and sending emails to a targeted list from a database is negligible. The club has also run a billboard campaign in the past, which can't cost much relative to the benefits of getting say 10 additional people to buy an ST compared to the empty seats they would replace.
lewpylew Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I am off to buy a new adult season ticket today and will get a free under 11 seat for my daughter. Found the comment below on the saints website in the article about season ticket general sale starting today. Existing Season Ticket holders, who have had a two week*priority to purchase, will now be required to pay the full cost of a new ticket, without the guarantee of reserving their existing seat.
lewpylew Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Well I have just arrived and ticket office open and in an hour long queue!!!
ant Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Thought I'd try to get on the phones before 9am in case the lines were open and it seems they are. Ten minutes holding and counting, could be an expensive call given that it's from my mobile! Want to get it sorted now while it's quiet at work though.
Chez Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I have actually considered that, and am surprised if I'm honest. Of course no-one has any clue how much a marketing campaign would cost the club (and whether the increased revenues would offset the costs involved), but I'm surprised it hasn't at least been tried. It's not as if we're selling out every week. Perhaps its an avenue of promotion that the club just don't believe is cost-effective. the club is being run by a banker. I'm generalising here and it's not a criticism, but bankers and marketing don't tend to mix well. Evaluating the effectiveness of PR and advertising and the return on that investment can be very difficult. Bankers just tend to see the marketing costs on their profit and loss sheet and it is very easy to cut that from the outgoings. In the short term a business tends to not be affected by this, but long term can be a very different matter.
benjii Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I think this sums it up for me. Last season, I was whining about not receiving reminders in glossy envelopes by post. Wondering why there weren't billboard posters round the city. Asking if direct mail should be tried. Turns out they did f**k all and still pushed the numbers up. I'm renewing my three season tickets come what may. If they doubled the prices, I'd probably still do it. They don't need to write to me. They don't need to put the prices on a website. I will phone a premium rate number just to find out what the prices are. Sure, I'd like a nice thank you letter from Cortese, a glossy brochure with prices etc. But that's just indulgence. It might just be the case that there are c.10,000 people like me. You don't need to market to us. We're going to lap it up anyway. Of course, at the margins, if you send out enough direct mail it will yield some results. There will be a few people who - like a poster above - have the reminder letter on their desk and after having glanced at it 27 times decide finally to renew. But there might not be many of these people. And they would be very hard to identify. To get a letter on their desk you need to also send letters to thousands of people who will renew anyway. On a cost-benefit analysis, it might not be worth it. You might be better spending the money on improving the website, launching a brand of Saints beer, taking on two more staff in the ticjet office etc etc. Someone with a brain!! Hallelujah!
Saint Charlie Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 And half the people who said when the prices were out "Well I won't be renewing, I've seen a season ticket holder for 39 years etc" probably did renew!
JRM Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Someone with a brain!! Hallelujah! more like someone without a brain, he said he would be happy to pay a premium phone number just to find out season ticket prices, and would pay double than the price being asked now - he is asking to be ripped off!!
benjii Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 more like someone without a brain, he said he would be happy to pay a premium phone number just to find out season ticket prices, and would pay double than the price being asked now - he is asking to be ripped off!! I think that may have been a bit of hyperbole to illustrate the mind of many footy fans. His points on marketing are correct though and boil down to the simple fact that the club is far better placed to judge the relative merits of certain forms of marketing than we are, what with the club having all the relevant information and us having very little information.
ant Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 OK, might have made a bit of a mistake in trying to get through first thing - been on hold for an hour now. Low demand, my arse! One of those situations where I don't want to hang up now though; come this far, might as well see it through
Marsdinho Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I too have been on hold for over an hour, all I want to do it is move my seat 5 places along the row I'm already on !!!
JRM Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I think that may have been a bit of hyperbole to illustrate the mind of many footy fans. His points on marketing are correct though and boil down to the simple fact that the club is far better placed to judge the relative merits of certain forms of marketing than we are, what with the club having all the relevant information and us having very little information. we are in a position to compare saints to other clubs though as we have access to their prices and marketing, saints do not appear to want to appeal to supporters with the same enthusiasm as other clubs with plenty of seats to fill. Fair enough they must be confident that we are going to have a good season and the fans will queue up to hand the money over. I've not renewed, but have had enough of it all to be honest. Probably do more away games.
surrey1saint Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 (edited) I renewed,come on you REDS!!(2 days ago) Edited 15 July, 2011 by surrey1saint
This Charming Man Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Been on hold for 90mins now. Trying to get a specific seat so want to get in there ASAP. I expected a long wait but this is taking the p*ss. Then again, the club seem more excited about the launch of the new shirt than they do about Season Ticket sales.
jam Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I am off to buy a new adult season ticket today and will get a free under 11 seat for my daughter. Found the comment below on the saints website in the article about season ticket general sale starting today. Existing Season Ticket holders, who have had a two week*priority to purchase, will now be required to pay the full cost of a new ticket, without the guarantee of reserving their existing seat. Just seen that. Bit annoying as I couldn't get the online system to work yesterday.
Window Cleaner Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 we are in a position to compare saints to other clubs though as we have access to their prices and marketing, saints do not appear to want to appeal to supporters with the same enthusiasm as other clubs with plenty of seats to fill. Fair enough they must be confident that we are going to have a good season and the fans will queue up to hand the money over. I've not renewed, but have had enough of it all to be honest. Probably do more away games. In fact I'm convinced that the club knows just how eager it's fans(or customers if you wish) are to hand over money since the JPT final. From what I've been able to understand of it people were falling over themselves to liberate a £100 or so of their hard earned without question. I'm afraid that this gave the club a clue as how easy it is for the majority of fans to find extra money. Of course no one wanted to miss the big day after a few years in the wilderness but too many were too eager. I think the £58 seats were the first to sell out weren't they?
ant Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Trying to get a specific seat so want to get in there ASAP. Likewise. Sadly I couldn't afford a season ticket last year so had to wait for general sale. 1h40m wait all in, that's definitely a phone holding record for me! All sorted now thank goodness Not looking forward to the £20 that'll lob onto my mobile bill, thought it would be an hour's wait tops...
LGTL Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I got down there for half 7 this morning and waited about 90 minutes to be served, the queue was at least a couple of hours after we'd left. I got the specific seat I wanted next to my mates too so happy days.
The9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 (edited) OK, might have made a bit of a mistake in trying to get through first thing - been on hold for an hour now. Low demand, my arse! One of those situations where I don't want to hang up now though; come this far, might as well see it through Right, so say a thousand people tie up the phone lines for an hour in their rush to get the seat they want. And then no-one else bothers to buy one after that. It doesn't mean there's high demand, just that the demand has all come at the same time. And to be fair, people posting on a Saints Forum are probably by definition more likely to be keen to get their STs than people who see it as a more casual thing anyway. I'm not saying that's the sudden stop in demand is going to happen by the way, just wondering why "I can't get through on the phone for an hour and a half" is being used as some kind of pointer to demand over the course of the ST sales period. If it's still the case in two weeks' time, then either we're selling a lot of tickets or the phone system is broken ! Edited 15 July, 2011 by The9
The9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 And half the people who said when the prices were out "Well I won't be renewing, I've seen a season ticket holder for 39 years etc" probably did renew! Which means that half didn't ?
Window Cleaner Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Which means that half didn't ? probably far more than a half of the not going to renew for whatever reason actually did. Anyway they'll be replaced by avid new ST seekers and at the end of the day we'll probably end up with somewhere between 15 and 16K sason ticket holders.Given that many away sides will want a couple of thousand tickets that'd mean about 10/12K tickets on general sale for most home matches, just scarce enough to put a bit of pressure on for decent games and make people think about booking in advance and copping the 3£ admin fee if they can't go to SMS easily during the week.
Brussels Saint Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 So if I'm right anyone who had a season ticket last year and wants the same again, must have already done it by now, or they need to pay full price. So all those on the phones and queuing now are essentially new ST customers? I take the point that perhaps its everyone rushing to do it at once, but still it must be a good sign for overall ST numbers, no?
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 If Saints "do a Norwich", it will be useful to have a season ticket now in order to get a cheaper renewal Premier League season ticket next season.
Gambol2K9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Im so ****ed off - ive had a nightmare trying to renew my ST. Now ive just found out i have to pay an extra £80 as if i was buying a new ST because i didnt renew it in time.
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Now ive just found out i have to pay an extra £80 as if i was buying a new ST because i didnt renew it in time. You can't blame the club for that.
once_bitterne Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Im so ****ed off - ive had a nightmare trying to renew my ST. Now ive just found out i have to pay an extra £80 as if i was buying a new ST because i didnt renew it in time. Why on earth did leave it so late?
saintscottofthenortham Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Im so ****ed off - ive had a nightmare trying to renew my ST. Now ive just found out i have to pay an extra £80 as if i was buying a new ST because i didnt renew it in time. Should have listened to the instructions properly.
benjii Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Yeah, no sympathy there. If there is a period explicitly for renewals and renewals are discounted the natural assumption ought to be that you might not get the discount at the end of the period.
Toadhall Saint Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Im so ****ed off - ive had a nightmare trying to renew my ST. Now ive just found out i have to pay an extra £80 as if i was buying a new ST because i didnt renew it in time. Now thats a mistake you won't let happen again isn't it.
Window Cleaner Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Now thats a mistake you won't let happen again isn't it. call it the cost of apathy.
The Kraken Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Should have listened to the instructions properly. As I pointed out yesterday, the initial instructions were actually less than clear. I'm unsurprised that someone has been caught out by it. Here's how it read on the OS: "Season Ticket renewals open from Friday 1st July with priority given to existing season ticket holders until Thursday 14th July before new sales begin on Friday 15th July over the telephone or at the box office. Sales of all Season Tickets will cease on friday 5th August, on the eve of the new campaign." So until today there was actuall nothing in the wording on the OS (the only place where this information was given) to suggest on there that you can't renew after the 14th July and still get the reduced prices. Admittedly, I'd have probably assume that was the case, but it wasn't completely clear according the to the terms of the OS. I have some sympathy with the guy.
The9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Can't say I have any sympathy for anyone who was renewing and able to get there before today (not being able to do it for other reasons is unfortunate). Despite the ambiguous wording, I thought it was pretty clear what the rules were and also that they were clearly designed specifically to catch people who forgot to renew and would have to pay extra despite being a current ST holder. Just like dropping the time limit on parking, and introducing Cortese Tax for match day purchases, they're all money-making schemes that annoy the customer but make the club cash in the short term. It's a risky game - though not so much for as long as we're winning, just like last year's "walk up vs ST money" gamble.
The Kraken Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Can't say I have any sympathy for anyone who was renewing and able to get there before today (not being able to do it for other reasons is unfortunate). Despite the ambiguous wording, I thought it was pretty clear what the rules were and also that they were clearly designed specifically to catch people who forgot to renew and would have to pay extra despite being a current ST holder. Just like dropping the time limit on parking, and introducing Cortese Tax for match day purchases, they're all money-making schemes that annoy the customer but make the club cash in the short term. It's a risky game - though not so much for as long as we're winning, just like last year's "walk up vs ST money" gamble. Technically correct; but it's a bit of a sad state of affairs that the fan base condones and supports a supposed plan to catch out or trick supporters in an effort to extract more money from them for a product that they clearly already want.
rallyboy Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I think the club made it fairly clear about renewing - 'priority' is the key word, and who would hope their seat remained unsold through a general sale? Putting smugness aside for a mo, if people choose not to as a result of a price increase or a quid to park, that is their choice and I have no problem with that. But if their decision is a knee jerk protest, it might just be a decision that annoys them approx 23 times in the next nine months. As I renewed I recalled that I certainly had my moneysworth last season, and with Wembley the year before, I've had value for money of late. Gone are the days of coming away from the theatre of gloom wondering where your £28 just went - hopefully... So I'm on the bus.
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 (edited) So until today there was actuall nothing in the wording on the OS (the only place where this information was given) to suggest on there that you can't renew after the 14th July and still get the reduced prices. Admittedly, I'd have probably assume that was the case, but it wasn't completely clear according the to the terms of the OS. I have some sympathy with the guy. Can you name a club in England that sets aside a renewal period and then allows renewals (at discount price) whilst on general sale? It is a standard football practise to do it this way and was the same for Saints last season and many previous seasons as well. Technically correct; but it's a bit of a sad state of affairs that the fan base condones and supports a supposed plan to catch out supporters in an effort to extract more money from them Not at all. It is the same way Saints and other clubs always handled renewals and new season ticket holders. It would have been more of a surprise if they reserved season ticket holders seats during a general sale until 5th August. That wouldn't make much sense as good seats may end up not being sold, so you need a renewal period that finishes before the final date. Edited 15 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God
ant Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 It doesn't mean there's high demand, just that the demand has all come at the same time. I know. It was a throwaway, tongue-in-cheek comment anyway.
The Kraken Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Can you name a club in England that sets aside a renewal period and then allows renewals (at discount price) whilst on general sale? It is a standard football practise to do it this way and was the same for Saints last season and many previous seasons as well. That's a completely different point altogether though, isn't it? And can you name another club that releases its replica kit for pre-order 20 days before anyone can see it? We're unique in that respect, so it isn't inconceivable to suggest we may be unique in others. The point I'm making has nothing to do with what we've previously done; we've previously done many things, and have changed quite a number of them. The fact is that the terms were not clearly written, which is why I'm unsurprised someone has been caught out.
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 That's a completely different point altogether though, isn't it? And can you name another club that releases its replica kit for pre-order 20 days before anyone can see it? We're unique in that respect, so it isn't inconceivable to suggest we may be unique in others. The point I'm making has nothing to do with what we've previously done; we've previously done many things, and have changed quite a number of them. The fact is that the terms were not clearly written, which is why I'm unsurprised someone has been caught out. Not "completely different" at all. Every club has a renewal period that ends before the seats go on general sale. It isn't a general sale if season ticket holders still have a claim over their seats from the previous season. That claim (and the discount price) needs to be removed in order for it to be a "general sale".
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 The OS in the original article even gives a "from" and "until" for renewals... Season Ticket renewals open from Friday 1st July 2011 with priority given to existing season ticket holders until Thursday 14th July before new sales begin from Friday 15th July over the telephone (0800 2800 050) or at the box office. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2370990,00.html Sounds clear to me.
Thedelldays Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 serious question why are people worried about mail shots and marketing... I assume we are all aware that the club are selling ST and we all know where to look to get one I have no idea if I can (if I wanted) to get an arsenal ST...have no idea what the criteria is...they have not "targeted me" yet I fully know where to find out if I wish
The Kraken Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Not "completely different" at all. Every club has a renewal period that ends before the seats go on general sale. It isn't a general sale if season ticket holders still have a claim over their seats from the previous season. That claim (and the discount price) needs to be removed in order for it to be a "general sale". Again, it really doesn't matter what "every club" does. We are not every club, so it is irrelevant what they do. And there's nothing in the wording about "general sale", so I don't know where you've plucked that one from. Here you go, here's the wording again: "Season Ticket renewals open from Friday 1st July with priority given to existing season ticket holders until Thursday 14th July before new sales begin on Friday 15th July over the telephone or at the box office." Nothing about a general sale. Nothing to say that renewal prices stop on 15th July. A confirmation that renewal sales get priority before new sales begin. A confirmation that new sales begin on 15th July. And nothing to suggest that new sales then take over from renewal sales, and renewal sales are unavailable after this date. I know you'll refuse to admit it, but that's the fact of it. And, thankfully, I'm off out now so won't have to listen to you try to tell me that black is actually white and that I'm wrong.
The Kraken Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 The OS in the original article even gives a "from" and "until" for renewals... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2370990,00.html Sounds clear to me. And finally, before i go. Priority is given from those dates over new sales. Does it say that renewals are not available after this date? No.
The9 Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 Technically correct; but it's a bit of a sad state of affairs that the fan base condones and supports a supposed plan to catch out or trick supporters in an effort to extract more money from them for a product that they clearly already want. I don't think anyone's condoning it are they ? I'd say it was implicit in drawing attention to it being designed to catch people out that I was being critical of it - but as the rules are stated clearly enough for me to have thought "I'd better renew before July 14th as it'll cost me less" I'm not going to worry myself too much over people who just couldn't be bothered to get down there in time to save themselves £80. As far as MLG's statement about no-one allowing a renewal price to be taken up after a stated renewal price period has expired, well no, what would be the point in having a stated renewal price period otherwise ? I'm sure there are examples of clubs having a "renewers only" period followed by a general sales period in which renewals were still charged at the renewal price though. It's that ambiguity that the club are exploiting - if that process didn't exist somewhere no-one would have it in their head that they might be able to do it. I'm pretty sure Saints did that for much of the "March Madness" ST years, for instance. Though I do seem to recall my "renewal" was full price when I held out to see if I could get myself a job down here circa 2006 before buying another ST.
Matthew Le God Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 (edited) And finally, before i go. Priority is given from those dates over new sales. Does it say that renewals are not available after this date? No. So how long did you think the seats would be reserved for? What if the club reserved thousands of seats until 5th August and not all were renewed? It has to end early, thus that is why every club including Saints under Cortese in 2009/10 always does so. Edited 15 July, 2011 by Matthew Le God
Wes Tender Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I queued for nearly three hours this morning, for 9.15am to get a ST for my son, having bought mine yesterday.
Turkish Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I queued for nearly three hours this morning, for 9.15am to get a ST for my son, having bought mine yesterday. why?
lewpylew Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 I had a 2 and a half hour wait this morning after being told i'd be waiting an hour by security!! £3.00 for parking later I got myself and my daughter new season tickets to sit by my son and partner : )
saintbag Posted 15 July, 2011 Posted 15 July, 2011 3 hour wait for me to get a new ticket for my son. Selling well methinks.
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