EDL march in Portsmouth....

[solentstars]

They really do conform to the stereo-type of thick Skate inbreds don't they. What exactly is the point of protesting about muslim extremists? Especially in a town who's main problem is drunken violence by young English males.

to be fair alot of skates don,t want those sad losers in their city .

[dune]

to be fair alot of skates don,t want those sad losers in their city .

 

Sorry to post again, but Peter Griffiths was MP for Portsmouth North between 1979 and 1997, AFTER his remarks in the 1964 election in Smethwick. Despite his slogan (or maybe because of it...) he overturned a healthy labour majority and sent shockwaves through politics.

[TopGun]

Sorry to post again, but Peter Griffiths was MP for Portsmouth North between 1979 and 1997, AFTER his remarks in the 1964 election in Smethwick. Despite his slogan (or maybe because of it...) he overturned a healthy labour majority and sent shockwaves through politics.

 

Shockwaves? Some obscure Tory MP who never got anywhere after election might have made some Enoch Powell post-1950s comments.

 

Wowser!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I dislike radical Islam but recognise that mainstream Islam is a force for good. The EDL seems to endorse an aggressive form of prejudice against a lot of good people.

[the stain]

Pretty well summed up, SG.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm a member of the Liberal Elite, abhor Muslim extreamism to the core, would ban all religious schools of very domination of grounds that they are devisive & yet think the EDL are a bunch of low brow knuckle draggers.

 

Which group do I fit in please?

 

I'm in that same group as you, are we out on a limb here? Probably not.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I'm a member of the Liberal Elite, abhor Muslim extreamism to the core, would ban all religious schools of very domination of grounds that they are devisive & yet think the EDL are a bunch of low brow knuckle draggers.

 

Which group do I fit in please?

 

I despise banning anything it goes against all my instincts . I find Muslim extremism unpalatable but argue against it do not ban it. If we have a society that incorporates the Muslim faith or any belief than we cannot just cherry pick which parts we find unsavoury and legislate to outlaw them because one day the wrong people will be making that decision. Who are we to judge other people. Wear your Burka with pride if that represents what you believe in; nobody should decide how you think or dress.

[View From The Top]

I despise banning anything it goes against all my instincts . I find Muslim extremism unpalatable but argue against it do not ban it. If we have a society that incorporates the Muslim faith or any belief than we cannot just cherry pick which parts we find unsavoury and legislate to outlaw them because one day the wrong people will be making that decision. Who are we to judge other people. Wear your Burka with pride if that represents what you believe in; nobody should decide how you think or dress.

 

Religious doctrine has no place in education. The French have got it right with the separation of church and State.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Getting everybody to think the same is a dangerous road to go down. Should the National curriculum determine a set 'aceeptable thinking' and if so who decides what that thinking is?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Fascism shall return as anti-fascism - Winston churchill

 

UAF have proved him correct.

 

I KNEW it would only be a matter of time before you quoted Churchill again. A man who himself said people who quote others are ****ing ****s (paraphrased obviously).

[dune]

I KNEW it would only be a matter of time before you quoted Churchill again. A man who himself said people who quote others are ****ing ****s (paraphrased obviously).

 

Ah, just the man. As a self confessed UAF activist can you explain why you march alongside Islamic millitants?

[View From The Top]

Getting everybody to think the same is a dangerous road to go down. Should the National curriculum determine a set 'aceeptable thinking' and if so who decides what that thinking is?

 

You clearly don't understand.

 

What I am saying is that religion and education should remain separate otherwise education will be delivered in a corrupt manner.

 

Not so long ago a school in the NE, a Christian school, wanted to teach creationism instead of evolution. Not alongside as a challenge to the orthodox, but as a direct replacement.

 

Religion is for the home, church, mosque, temple etc, not the classroom.

 

It also the reason why that there shouldn't be bishops in the HoL. Seperation of the church and State.

[benjii]

How so Benji? The Catholic church spent centuries killing 'Heretics' in the name of god and the Inquisition is still alive and well today, albeit now called the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 

Not disputing dubious practices rooted in Catholicism but perhaps the EDLers don't view these practices as any threat to them. Which is why I think it's a bit of a jump to say that their lack of reproach towards Catholics is an indicator of racism. It may be that they feel Islamic extremism is the only genuine threat to their culture.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think they are wrong - just had a problem with your logic!

[benjii]

We won't get separation of state and religion until we knobble the royals.

[Baj]

Thank god the for english defence league defending my englishness, thats all I can say.....

[View From The Top]

We won't get separation of state and religion until we knobble the royals.

 

I know that. However, I do believe that faith schools do more harm than good as they enforce a doctrine and to me that's wrong.

[scotty]

I have a female friend who lives in Stockport who goes on these marches. She's actually reasonably intelligent and states she is not racist but against islamic radicalism in the UK. I believe her when she says this but she is utterly blind to the fact that the majority of those she demonstrates with are hard core nazis with no jobs or skills to offer to the nation.

 

The EDL selects areas that have festering social problems to campaign at. Where I live in the north west demonstrates this clearly - impoverished, unskilled and high unemployment white areas such as Oldham and Burnley which abut asian neighbourhoods.

 

Thats interesting. I know a guy in Wigan who fits the exact same description, maybe its something about the demographics of that area. I've always seen immigration a s a generally positive thing myself, reckon its done far more for us as a country than most seem to credit it with.

[the stain]

Thank god the for english defence league defending my englishness, thats all I can say.....

 

Is this sarcasm, Baj? I thought that you banned Deppo for that? This is the Lounge, you know?

[Baj]

Is this sarcasm, Baj? I thought that you banned Deppo for that? This is the Lounge, you know?

 

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

[farawaysaint]

Bah, I fully respect everybody's right to free speech but I at least think they should bother to make sure that the drivel coming out of their mouths is informed drivel; "Allah is a paedo," is hardly a chant to unite a nation. Maybe if just one of those idiots botherd to read the Quran I could take them seriously but protesting outside a peaceful mosque, particularily one that condemned the action that supposedly spawned their protest is ludicrous.

[the stain]

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

 

Yes please.

[scotty]

Is this sarcasm, Baj? I thought that you banned Deppo for that? This is the Lounge, you know?

 

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

 

Off topic lads. Infractions await.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, hang on.......

[dune]

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

 

Go on your bajesty, show us your leadership qualities and put him in his place.

[norwaysaint]

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

 

Yep, I can see the difference. The difference is it's OK if it's boj being sarcastic. Otherwise, no difference.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Ah, just the man. As a self confessed UAF activist can you explain why you march alongside Islamic millitants?

 

Don't change the subject dunce, you know as well as I do that I didn't renew my membership. I never marched at all, let alone alongside anyone else. I guess they were thinking along the lines of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend": anything that makes the EDL look like the pathetic, evil organisation it is.

[Gemmel]

The rise of this type of entity is just the result of the other parties pussy footing around imigration discussions and paranoid about the racist card being played.

 

Whether it is delibarate or not, all the main political parties seem happy to allow myth to reign over fact.

 

Half educated people understand the positive impact that alot (Not all) of immigrants and muslims bring to this Country. There aren't huge amounts of half educated people anymore.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

You clearly don't understand.

 

What I am saying is that religion and education should remain separate otherwise education will be delivered in a corrupt manner.

 

Not so long ago a school in the NE, a Christian school, wanted to teach creationism instead of evolution. Not alongside as a challenge to the orthodox, but as a direct replacement.

 

Religion is for the home, church, mosque, temple etc, not the classroom.

 

It also the reason why that there shouldn't be bishops in the HoL. Seperation of the church and State.

 

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

[dune]

Don't change the subject dunce, you know as well as I do that I didn't renew my membership. I never marched at all, let alone alongside anyone else. I guess they were thinking along the lines of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend": anything that makes the EDL look like the pathetic, evil organisation it is.

 

And UAF marching alongside hardline Islamic Millitants doesn't make them look like pathetic hypocrites?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

 

There's a difference between the state not interfering and therefore allowing religious schools to operate and actually funding those religious schools with public money. I happy with the former not the latter. Anyway back to the main point, the EDL are stupid scumbags. The great thing is that practically everyone on here agrees on this.

[View From The Top]

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

 

The state, the taxpayer, should not be supporting religious doctrine. If people want to send their kids to a religious school they should pay for it.

 

Religion has no place in setting an educational agenda.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

And UAF marching alongside hardline Islamic Millitants doesn't make them look like pathetic hypocrites?

 

I'm sure they would tell you fascism is a political ideology, Islam is a religion.

[benjii]

Wow, you're great. Do I really need to point out the difference?!

 

There is no difference, except Deppo's posts were worth reading.

[benjii]

Don't change the subject dunce, you know as well as I do that I didn't renew my membership. I never marched at all, let alone alongside anyone else. I guess they were thinking along the lines of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend": anything that makes the EDL look like the pathetic, evil organisation it is.

 

Pretty bizarre logic. "Let's team up with the biggest bunch of ****s around to make a less ****ish group look ****ish."

[Verbal]

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

 

So the state provides but should not interfere? You sound like a caricature benefits scrounger, Sergei: 'I demand you give me tax-money but don't even think of asking what it's for.'

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The state, the taxpayer, should not be supporting religious doctrine. If people want to send their kids to a religious school they should pay for it.

 

Religion has no place in setting an educational agenda.

 

Well they do through their taxes.

 

I would turn that around and say that the State has no place setting religious or any other agenda.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

So the state provides but should not interfere? You sound like a caricature benefits scrounger, Sergei: 'I demand you give me tax-money but don't even think of asking what it's for.'

 

Can you rephrase that too 'I pay a lot of tax and feel I should be entitled to have a say how it is spent; oh and that new artwork outside the civil offices is a waste of money'.

[solentstars]

There's a difference between the state not interfering and therefore allowing religious schools to operate and actually funding those religious schools with public money. I happy with the former not the latter. Anyway back to the main point, the EDL are stupid scumbags. The great thing is that practically everyone on here agrees on this.

apart from the propagandist spokesman of the far right the hitler ,ian smith,bnp,nf,edf lover:lol:

[Gorgiesaint]

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

 

One of the debates that going on in Scotland at the moment is with regards to the number of catholic schools, particularly on the west coast around Glasgow. This has been happening largely because of the problems around the old firm games last season, and the subsequent bits of post Neil Lennon received. I have to say that I don't know how they are funded up here, but the debate is around whether being separated as catholics at school makes the kids less tolerant towards the protestant kids. Extending the argument, its easy to have that same debate about 'christianity' and islam.

 

One thing though, is the purpose of schooling not to educate our kids in areas that they would not normally get education on (i.e. from their parents). The problem, as I see it, with single faith schools is that you have plenty of 'experts' on your own religion - but who is then qualified to talk about another religion? (as all the teachers & pupils are of a single faith). Now that's a problem for single faith schools of any faith. I can remember back to when I was at school 25 years ago and going into religious education classes, at a school with all white teachers, and the teacher trying to talk about Islam. Absolutely no idea what he was talking about so it was a complete waste of time. If religious education is to be done in schools , it has to be done properly. In fact, if I was arranging it, I would get teachers to teach the subject - get in people from the local churches & mosques - that's what they trained for.

[Joensuu]

I am afraid we differ on this. I still believe that people should have the right to send their children to which school they like. Faith is probably the most important part of some people's lives and the state should not interfere. How can you assume that students cannot make up their own minds later in life. The biggest strouble with faith schools seems to be the number of people who want to send their children there. Does that send a message.

 

I would almost agree if the choice were genuine, but here in Surrey, I've really struggled to find a high quality secular school. My options were either to send my child to a good religious school, or a bad secular one. I opted to move house instead.

 

All schools need to be secular and balanced, religion should be taught, and all religions should have a balanced time allocation. Ideally former religions (ancient Rome etc) should be also included.

 

Oh, and BTW, Dune, fairly sure that isn't a Churchill quote, fairly sure I read that it was actually attributed to someone else, and has only incorrectly become attributed to Churchill over the past decade or so.

 

Oh, and I have a problem with all radicalisation, whether religious or not. This includes both radical Islam, radical Christianity, radical Judaism, and the radical EDL.

[View From The Top]

Well they do through their taxes.

 

I would turn that around and say that the State has no place setting religious or any other agenda.

 

1st sentence is facile and weak and the 2nd suggests that you don't understand the argument at all.

[The Majestic Channon]

Yep, I can see the difference. The difference is it's OK if it's boj being sarcastic. Otherwise, no difference.

 

Move on you big girl...

[the stain]

Oooh, get her.

[dune]

apart from the propagandist spokesman of the far right the hitler ,ian smith,bnp,nf,edf lover:lol:

 

Do you mind if I abbreviate your name to SS?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1st sentence is facile and weak and the 2nd suggests that you don't understand the argument at all.

 

So they should pay their tax and then some more for their children to go to another school.

 

Gorgie Saint has an argument I would subscribe to but that is more because they fuel sectarianism.

 

The question that should be addressed is why is that faith schools are so popular with parents - is it because they deliver better results?

 

My school (a long long time ago) was pretty Church of England but did not brain wash me into being a religious nut (maybe a forum bore).

[View From The Top]

So they should pay their tax and then some more for their children to go to another school.

Gorgie Saint has an argument I would subscribe to but that is more because they fuel sectarianism.

 

The question that should be addressed is why is that faith schools are so popular with parents - is it because they deliver better results?

 

My school (a long long time ago) was pretty Church of England but did not brain wash me into being a religious nut (maybe a forum bore).

 

There should be NO state religious schools. You are comfortable with purely Islamic, Sikh, Hindi, Jewish and Christian schools?

 

Are you comfortable with single sex Muslim schools funded via Saudi money? or with Christian schools teaching creationism? Catholic schools rammed full of Polish kids taught about contraception by Irish nuns?

 

These schools do not promote inclusion and a balanced education.

 

No not confuse a quiant CofE school in the shires with the real world.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

There should be NO state religious schools. You are comfortable with purely Islamic, Sikh, Hindi, Jewish and Christian schools?

 

Are you comfortable with single sex Muslim schools funded via Saudi money? or with Christian schools teaching creationism? Catholic schools rammed full of Polish kids taught about contraception by Irish nuns?

 

These schools do not promote inclusion and a balanced education.

 

No not confuse a quiant CofE school in the shires with the real world.

 

Its not ideal but I respect how important religion is to some people and do not think it is right for the State to confront these beliefs. To be honest I am not sure how many schools there are that fit into your description.

[View From The Top]

Its not ideal but I respect how important religion is to some people and do not think it is right for the State to confront these beliefs. To be honest I am not sure how many schools there are that fit into your description.

 

Too many is the answer and check into how many "free" schools are going to be religious, especially non Christian and that number is going to explode.

 

The State should not be paying for peoples religious beliefs. The State should have no place in religion and therefore should not be funding religious schools.

[pedg]

Oddly just had an EDL march go past our house in Cambridge. They did all rather appear to fit the stereotype of an EDL supporter, though it was rather a limited sample size.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Too many is the answer and check into how many "free" schools are going to be religious, especially non Christian and that number is going to explode.

 

The State should not be paying for peoples religious beliefs. The State should have no place in religion and therefore should not be funding religious schools.

 

Who pays for the state - the taxpayer and if a sufficient number of taxpayers want to send their children to a school that reflects thaeir values then good luck to them.

 

They must be good schools because everyone wants to send their children to them.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

I liven outside Winchester for 19 years and all of my children went to C of E schools. That said, there wasn't a primary school anywhere around that wasn't C of E. All of them, Compton, Otterbourne, Twyford, Hursley, St Faith's, St Bede's, All Saints, all C of E. It's only when you get to the ungodly Eastleigh area that non faith schools are available.