Bollards Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 My apologies, it's been a long, hot day which had a particular highlight of a student collapsing and needing CPR (fortunately for everyone concerned, with me stood watching). Even more fortuntely she appears to be OK. In my long relaxing holidays I'm sure I can find the time to be more controversial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Ummmmm. Dates set by the Dept of Ed. Suggest you have a word with Gove. he is about to set other standards...no problem then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 he is about to set other standards...no problem then I've no issues with his proposed changes to teacher training. Most appear sensible although, as with everything, I await the fine print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Bless. Blaming the government is a cop out. If the teachers wanted it changed they could get it done, they are quick to get together and do something when it's their pensions being changed. We were a man down at work last month because of a teacher training day, it's not just the kids it effects but businesses that have to make money and can't just take days off for training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Blaming the government is a cop out. If the teachers wanted it changed they could get it done, they are quick to get together and do something when it's their pensions being changed. We were a man down at work last month because of a teacher training day, it's not just the kids it effects but businesses that have to make money and can't just take days off for training. I think I'm welling up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 would you back a strike/protest if teacher training days were used in holiday periods...this say, making teacher holidays 9 weeks a year instead of 10...? just asking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 would you back a strike/protest if teacher training days were used in holiday periods...this say, making teacher holidays 9 weeks a year instead of 10...? just asking.... Would you complain if they took a week of your holiday to do training? Course you would. God knows you drip enough about your job now. What you fail to grasp is that 99.9% of teachers would be quite happy to never have another Baker Day as the "training" is usually gash but much of it, at least where I'm based, is mandatory. I exclude my wife from this as she loves all training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Would you complain if they took a week of your holiday to do training? Course you would. God knows you drip enough about your job now. What you fail to grasp is that 99.9% of teachers would be quite happy to never have another Baker Day as the "training" is usually gash but much of it, at least where I'm based, is mandatory. I exclude my wife from this as she loves all training. err, you know full well that does and will happen...all the time or maybe you dont anymore, it has been while since you were in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I think I'm welling up. The sort of attitude I would expect from the public sector, that's why not alot of people are "welling up" whilst the tories cut your pensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 err, you know full well that does and will happen...all the time or maybe you dont anymore, it has been while since you were in They may cancel your leave, we've all be through that, but they do not take leave days off you, you still accrue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The sort of attitude I would expect from the public sector, that's why not alot of people are "welling up" whilst the tories cut your pensions. Still, I've 13 weeks off to look forward to whilst you're beavering away. Stick at it old chap, you've my salary to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 They may cancel your leave, we've all be through that, but they do not take leave days off you, you still accrue them. actually, about three years ago they cut my leave dates........when the new joint administration thingy came in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Still, I've 13 weeks off to look forward to whilst you're beavering away. Stick at it old chap, you've my salary to pay. and you my pension cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 actually, about three years ago they cut my leave dates........when the new joint administration thingy came in Bloody hell, that's harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Bloody hell, that's harsh. cut my leave, pay, terms, job status, eer, you name it, all been changed (and not for the good)... oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 and you my pension cheers I never begrudge a member of the forces a decent pension, especially as I transferred mine into my apparently big, fat, bloated, gold plated, outrageous teachers pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 cut my leave, pay, terms, job status, eer, you name it, all been changed (and not for the good)... oh well Cut or bring in line with skimmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Still, I've 13 weeks off to look forward to whilst you're beavering away. Stick at it old chap, you've my salary to pay. Wouldn't take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Blaming the government is a cop out. If the teachers wanted it changed they could get it done, they are quick to get together and do something when it's their pensions being changed. We were a man down at work last month because of a teacher training day, it's not just the kids it effects but businesses that have to make money and can't just take days off for training. But the local councils publish the training days at the same time as they publish term dates - usually 12 months in advance. It's not like it's suddenly sprung on you (or your colleague). So parents have ample time to arrange childcare. Or are you suggesting that your 'man' shouldn't take leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 actually, about three years ago they cut my leave dates........when the new joint administration thingy came in JPA - Joint Personnel Administration you mong, 'knel Jamie how long you been in...??? You obviously need more training days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 indeed..and we are talking about maybe in times of cuts getting value for money/more from less etc...that would it be possible for teacher leave to be brought in line with the norm....if it is not possible then...so be it..just asking the question My response would be (and although it is personal, there are a number of teachers similar to my background) : I left a 70k job in London and retrained to be a teacher a few years back. I had always wanted to teach but somehow got sidetracked for 15 years by going in to the Accountancy & Media field. I then happily accpeted a massive pay drop knowing that this would rise quite quickly to about £34k in 4/5 years, there would be a generous pension paid at the end and also the 12/13 weeks a year holiday were a huge benefit in kind. On a pro rata basis, I'm still down on the £££££'s front, but I'm much happier in my job, contributing more to society and hoepfully making a real change in many people's lives. For someone with my qualifications (Degree, Masters, Accountancy qualification), although the basic salary is low for what I could be earning, the pension along with the days off is a key factor in sticking at it (a noble and honourable profession doesn't pay the mortgage). Change any of these (as Gove is suggetsing via the pensions & you are asking re holidays) and I don't think I would stick around as a teacher and without blowing my trumpet (and the trumpet of others like me in the teaching profession) I think this would be a loss. I think you can always have a race to the bottom, but ultimatley there will be a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Wouldn't take long. Oooooooo. Get her waving her willy around as if it's going to impress someone on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 JPA - Joint Personnel Administration you mong, 'knel Jamie how long you been in...??? You obviously need more training days... I know what it was...I put my mates notice in for him when he left himself logged on once....haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Oooooooo. Get her waving her willy around as if it's going to impress someone on the internet. Get back to your homework, you don't want to get into trouble do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 For someone with my qualifications (Degree, Masters, Accountancy qualification), although the basic salary is low for what I could be earning, the pension along with the days off is a key factor in sticking at it (a noble and honourable profession doesn't pay the mortgage). Change any of these (as Gove is suggetsing via the pensions & you are asking re holidays) and I don't think I would stick around as a teacher and without blowing my trumpet (and the trumpet of others like me in the teaching profession) I think this would be a loss. Yet some think taking away the perks wouldn't impact recruitment in areas that we are desperately short of now. As a nation we cannot continue to fail to recruit maths and science graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 aintforever was obviously bullied by some big bad teacher during his school days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Get back to your homework, you don't want to get into trouble do you. Cutting. Really, it was. Cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 aintforever was obviously bullied by some big bad teacher during his school days... At my school it was more like the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Yet some think taking away the perks wouldn't impact recruitment in areas that we are desperately short of now. As a nation we cannot continue to fail to recruit maths and science graduates. The thing is that I wouldn't call them perks, I would call them an integral part of the remuneration package. Perks would be the jolly **** ups I used to go on at Cowes, Wimbledon, Twickenham, Reading Festival, Glyndebourne, Goodwood, Salisbury, the County Ground, Edgbaston, Henley, The Oval, Ibiza Sales Conference, St Mary's, etc etc etc. The overwhelming majority of these were taken during the working week and I very much doubt any of them were economically productive from my side, nor did they provide and real value for money. I was already earning a stack and was happy with my lot, these jolly boys outings (all paid for by the company) were just OTT jollys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 At my school it was more like the other way round. Well, there you have it. You clearly hold no value for education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Well, there you have it. You clearly hold no value for education. Yeah, that's why I went to college and Uni and now work in the profession I chose when I was 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The thing is that I wouldn't call them perks, I would call them an integral part of the remuneration package. I agree but to the Daily Mail brigade they're perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Yeah, that's why I went to college and Uni and now work in the profession I chose when I was 16. If only the whole wide world was like you. aintforever for God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Yeah, that's why I went to college and Uni and now work in the profession I chose when I was 16. Are you a racing car driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Are you a racing car driver? Yeah, good guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 When I went to school I used to bully the teachers! I made their lives a misery! Those f*ckers don't deserve any more holidays or a decent pension. And they certainly don't need any training. Lazy b*stards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Teachers are entitled to a holiday too and they pay extra for that due to rip off travel companies. It's pretty hard to manage as a lot of families book an holiday, maybe a year in advance, if the head then decides to try and put a teacher training day to fit in line with the holidays, then people will have booked to be away. Teachers are on restricted leave, it'd be like a company that only allows staff to book leave at a certain time, then the boss decides to tell you that you can't have all of that week after all, as he wants you in for training a day earlier. I'm sure most would say 'well that's when I am supposed to book leave'. If you are a term-time employee then why should you come into work when it's not term-time? I agree, in principle though, TT days could surely be managed so that they don't mean kids having to have another day off school, what the solution is, I don't know but I guess it depends on the attitude of the head/governors. As in all walks of life, some don't like change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Barney - to clear up a couple of points. 1. Baker Days are planned a year in advance at least 2. The Heads and Governors have no say in this - it's up to the local education authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Thanks BTF - So why do different schools have different TT days in the same LEA? Surely that indicates that heads have some say in the matter, also a lot schools will change their TT days during the term, not all of them but the odd one here and there. I do believe you by the way, I am just trying to understand the complexities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Barney - to clear up a couple of points. 1. Baker Days are planned a year in advance at least 2. The Heads and Governors have no say in this - it's up to the local education authority. Not strictly true. My kids school have been allocated 2 extra days (to do with going from a 2 class intake to 3 classes) which are next Thursday/Friday and we were given 6 weeks notice. I'm taking 2 days unpaid leave to look after them as my teaching load is less than my wife's at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Thanks BTF - So why do different schools have different TT days in the same LEA? Surely that indicates that heads have some say in the matter, also a lot schools will change their TT days during the term, not all of them but the odd one here and there. I do believe you by the way, I am just trying to understand the complexities. It often depends on what TT it is. Where I'm based they try to do cluster TT but sometimes it's not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 We get it, the public hates teachers. In other news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 (edited) Not strictly true. My kids school have been allocated 2 extra days (to do with going from a 2 class intake to 3 classes) which are next Thursday/Friday and we were given 6 weeks notice. I'm taking 2 days unpaid leave to look after them as my teaching load is less than my wife's at the moment. Maybe it depends on the area then. I know for sure that my SiL's school TT days and holidays are published a year in advance. I check this because I don't have to be a childminder when he's on leave (but obviously I do when he's on TT). Another point - recently he was in charge of a group of children on a week's field trip in the holidays. So he gave up a week's leave to do that and, naturally, didn't get paid extra for it. Last year he was in charge of a group who went to France for a long weekend. In his own time again. He gave up a very well paid marketing job to train as a teacher because he worked with children with learning problems as part of his previous work. He loved it so much, he decided he wanted to be a teacher. Edited 27 June, 2011 by bridge too far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Maybe it depends on the area then. I know for sure that my SiL's school TT days and holidays are published a year in advance. I check this because I don't have to be a childminder when he's on leave (but obviously I do when he's on TT). Another point - recently he was in charge of a group of children on a week's field trip in the holidays. So he gave up a week's leave to do that and, naturally, didn't get paid extra for it. Last year he was in charge of a group who went to France for a long weekend. In his own time again. Schools publish them but they are all subject to change. Extra days can be added by the LEA / Dept Ed as is happening with my kids next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 May be they could combine them with their "Striking Days" My sons school have, on strike Thursday, INSET day Friday. I heard from the secretary at my youngest sons school, that their last INSET day was team bonding at Go Ape, she is new to the job and when she expressed surprise was told by the head that "it was one of the perks of the job". Tough life innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 My sons school have, on strike Thursday, INSET day Friday. I heard from the secretary at my youngest sons school, that their last INSET day was team bonding at Go Ape, she is new to the job and when she expressed surprise was told by the head that "it was one of the perks of the job". Tough life innit. Jammy f**kers. I'll be having a word with our Principle and suggest paintballing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 that their last INSET day was team bonding at Go Ape, If someone had offered up Go Ape as a perk in my last few jobs, then they would have been laughed out of the office. A day at Go Ape is not a perk, unless it was one of their Mediterranean offices!!!!!!!!! I think the biggest perk I have had in 7 years of teaching was a free BBQ, a pen and a day out on a treasure hunt around the New Forest. I reckon if you added up all the perks for the whole school over the last year, then it wouldn't even come to one of our long lunches back in the good ole days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 28 June, 2011 Share Posted 28 June, 2011 Teachers should be paid more and get decent perks. Then we would have better ones and we would, gradually, have a better class of people throughout society. In my experience, teaching is not remotely aspirational for the brightest students. The people I know who went into teaching were either: a) an embarrassment to higher education and should never have been allowed to set foot inside a "uni", or b) people who got a Desmond and couldn't get the better job they had actually wanted. Teaching needs to be made attractive to the best performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 28 June, 2011 Author Share Posted 28 June, 2011 Ummmmm. Dates set by the Dept of Ed. Suggest you have a word with Gove. It is a tad amusing that when it suits , its up to Gove but when things are to be changed that are not so palatable its lets walk out on strike. I have been self employed all my working life and so have a different slant on perks and holidays. I get no paid leave, I dont get paid if i dont work or go on holiday.So forgive me if i dont seem to have any sympathy. I have a rubbish pension as I did not contribute a large slice of my income into one, no index linked final salalry stuff for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 28 June, 2011 Share Posted 28 June, 2011 If there's all this jealousy about teacher's holidays, there's nothing stopping the moaners re-training as teachers and then they could sample the delights of facing 30 bored disruptive teenagers who don't want to be there and whose parents don't give a toss about their education. When you take a job, you accept the conditions offered by your employer. As far as training goes, if successive governments stopped buggering about with the education system, there'd be less need for so many training courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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