OldNick Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Teachers training days, why are they not taken during the many school holidays? I wish they were around when I was they didn't even close when it was snowing. It seems a nonsense to me. Surely you are either trained or you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Teachers training days, why are they not taken during the many school holidays? Because teachers want holidays. Perk of the job. Surely you are either trained or you are not. Education is forever changing and evolving. New issues arise, new methods to use etc since staff did teacher training possibly many years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Mikey Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Teachers training days, why are they not taken during the many school holidays? I wish they were around when I was they didn't even close when it was snowing. It seems a nonsense to me. Surely you are either trained or you are not. My old man is a Headmaster and he always makes sure these are tagged on the end or before holidays. Better for everyone... But, that is a ridiculous statement to make about training. So, you think a teacher who starts at 22/3 should have no extra training til they retire at 65?! What about teachers these days, none would have a f*cking clue how to use IT, something that has fundamentally changed the way education is delivered. What about changes in syllabus? I'm not a teacher, but f*ck me, that's a stupid thing to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Teachers training days, why are they not taken during the many school holidays? I wish they were around when I was they didn't even close when it was snowing. It seems a nonsense to me. Surely you are either trained or you are not. Statutory days allocated by a previous tory government, hence the name Baker Days. In my experience most teachers hate them, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The one thing I can't understand is if they are teaching children, why are there no children to teach at their "training days".Surely controling children in a classroom enviorment is one of the most important training needs? During their "training days" do driving instructors walk round the streets without their cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 May be they could combine them with their "Striking Days" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 (edited) The one thing I can't understand is if they are teaching children, why are there no children to teach at their "training days".Surely controling children in a classroom enviorment is one of the most important training needs? During their "training days" do driving instructors walk round the streets without their cars? Education theory doesn't require children to be present. Teachers whilst training sit through endless lectures at university on child psychology and education theories etc and attend numerous seminars on education techniques. A driving theory test doesn't require a car to be taught. Edited 27 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The one thing I can't understand is if they are teaching children, why are there no children to teach at their "training days".Surely controling children in a classroom enviorment is one of the most important training needs? During their "training days" do driving instructors walk round the streets without their cars? We had two days of statutory child protection/vulnerable adults training. Could hardly do that with them all in could we? (It was beyond boring but necessary) The follow up day (6 months later) was split over two 3hr twilight sessions so we didn't shut. I would suggest that the fact that even Gove understands why they are used is evidence enough of the value attached to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 We had two days of statutory child protection/vulnerable adults training. Could hardly do that with them all in could we? (It was beyond boring but necessary) The follow up day (6 months later) was split over two 3hr twilight sessions so we didn't shut. I would suggest that the fact that even Gove understands why they are used is evidence enough of the value attached to them. This is a serious question; How much holiday do teachers get and couldn't these "training days" be used in those. Instead of pupils coming back from holidays a day late, couldn't teachers come back a day earlier and have their training days then? I would think that about 5 weeks is the average holidays most people get nowadays. They get Xmas and half of July and all of August,surely they could be cut down slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 This is a serious question; How much holiday do teachers get and couldn't these "training days" be used in those. Instead of pupils coming back from holidays a day late, couldn't teachers come back a day earlier and have their training days then? I would think that about 5 weeks is the average holidays most people get nowadays. They get Xmas and half of July and all of August,surely they could be cut down slightly. The Baker Days were set by a tory government to recorgnised the need to constantly upskill the workforce. The fact that this tory government thinks they are still needed speaks volumes. We are desperately struggling to recruit maths and science grads into the profession, I know as I also teach on a PGCE course at a local uni and the numbers are down again, and slashing the holidays would impact on that even further. We are on a dangerous path for our future economic position if this continues. In addition, the holidays are for the kids. My two at school are knackered and need to recharge, which is why the holidays are still spread as they are. Still, the long holidays give the rabid right something to moan about before they once again abdicate responsibility for their offspring in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The Baker Days were set by a tory government to recorgnised the need to constantly upskill the workforce. The fact that this tory government thinks they are still needed speaks volumes. We are desperately struggling to recruit maths and science grads into the profession, I know as I also teach on a PGCE course at a local uni and the numbers are down again, and slashing the holidays would impact on that even further. We are on a dangerous path for our future economic position if this continues. In addition, the holidays are for the kids. My two at school are knackered and need to recharge, which is why the holidays are still spread as they are. Still, the long holidays give the rabid right something to moan about before they once again abdicate responsibility for their offspring in September. but cant the teachers come back a day early.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 This is a serious question; How much holiday do teachers get and couldn't these "training days" be used in those.Instead of pupils coming back from holidays a day late, couldn't teachers come back a day earlier and have their training days then? We are back a week before the students, my wife 3 days before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 but cant the teachers come back a day early.......? I am, my missus is, so we do. How other places are run I can't comment on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I am, my missus is, so we do. How other places are run I can't comment on. fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 It is amazing that they cannot fit a training day into their massive holidays. Or maybe even, god forbid, at the weekend. Just ingrained laziness IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 It is amazing that they cannot fit a training day into their massive holidays. Or maybe even, god forbid, at the weekend. Just ingrained laziness IMO. again..have no idea what holidays teachers get...? I will assume for this sake they get 6 weeks a year (alot more than me) if it is 6 weeks a year, that is amazing really...surely if the old baker days were used and their holiday was a mere 5 weeks a year that would be acceptable...or would many strike over it..???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 But how much holiday do you get, is it over 5 weeks? If so, maybe coming back one day earlier than you do at present, is not too much of a hardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 again..have no idea what holidays teachers get...? I will assume for this sake they get 6 weeks a year (alot more than me) if it is 6 weeks a year, that is amazing really...surely if the old baker days were used and their holiday was a mere 5 weeks a year that would be acceptable...or would many strike over it..???? Isn't it 6 weeks at summer, two at Xmas, one at Easter plus 2 lots of half terms, plus the usual bank holidays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Isn't it 6 weeks at summer, two at Xmas, one at Easter plus 2 lots of half terms, plus the usual bank holidays? serious question..what would be the reaction if their holidays were brought in line with everyone else...and all their training is done when the kids are off...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I am not a teacher but my Mum was and she spent alot of her holidays marking or prepping for the next term / year. When she got home on a school night she would always have a couple of hours work minimum, left to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 My Mum (a Primary school teacher) has just arrived home after attending a seminar at the University of Winchester on 'Expansive Learning'. It's not all fun and games... And on the subject of holidays, if you saw how hard my Mum worked on her school planning during the 'holiday' that she has then you wouldn't call it a break from work at all. She probably gets about 1 week a year where she has no work to do during the holidays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Once again, people making the erroneous assumption that teachers sit on their backsides during the holidays. Nothing could be further from the truth. Last week, my son-in-law got in from school at 6.30 (having been at the school at 7 am). He bathed his little son, ate his own dinner and then out came the laptop for two hours work before he went to bed. Last weekend, he had to miss out on a family occasion because he had reports to write. I'm shattered after looking after my grandchildren for two days. So I think I understand how he must be after looking after a class of 30 for a week. He'll have probably three weeks tops off this summer - one of which will be spent camping with his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I am not a teacher but my Mum was and she spent alot of her holidays marking or prepping for the next term / year. When she got home on a school night she would always have a couple of hours work minimum, left to do. eeer, and...? I have worked weeks (alongside) in excess of 80+ hours....part of the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Once again, people making the erroneous assumption that teachers sit on their backsides during the holidays. Nothing could be further from the truth. Last week, my son-in-law got in from school at 6.30 (having been at the school at 7 am). He bathed his little son, ate his own dinner and then out came the laptop for two hours work before he went to bed. Last weekend, he had to miss out on a family occasion because he had reports to write. I'm shattered after looking after my grandchildren for two days. So I think I understand how he must be after looking after a class of 30 for a week. He'll have probably three weeks tops off this summer - one of which will be spent camping with his family. sorry, why on earth are you telling us about his children.. missing out on familiy occasions is part of the job you accept..or dont do it...trust me, in my world we miss out on the most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 sorry, why on earth are you telling us about his children.. missing out on familiy occasions is part of them job you accept..or dont do it...trust me, in my world we miss out on the most Sorry - why on earth are you being even thicker than usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Once again, people making the erroneous assumption that teachers sit on their backsides during the holidays. Nothing could be further from the truth. Last week, my son-in-law got in from school at 6.30 (having been at the school at 7 am). He bathed his little son, ate his own dinner and then out came the laptop for two hours work before he went to bed. Last weekend, he had to miss out on a family occasion because he had reports to write. I'm shattered after looking after my grandchildren for two days. So I think I understand how he must be after looking after a class of 30 for a week. He'll have probably three weeks tops off this summer - one of which will be spent camping with his family. Still no reason why training days couldn't take place during non-term days, there are plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Sorry - why on earth are you being even thicker than usual? how am I being thick....why are you being insulting..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 13 glorious weeks holiday. Well not me as I work in FE/Adult Ed and it's different. Feel free to be outraged that you have to look after your own kids in that time. Your opportunity to again abdicate responsibility will be around again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Still no reason why training days couldn't take place during non-term days, there are plenty. So, if you had to do some training to do with your job, you'd give up holiday to do so, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 eeer, and...? I have worked weeks (alongside) in excess of 80+ hours....part of the job Err and nothing, I was just trying to balance the debate with the fact they do alot of work outside school hours and actually during the holidays themselves. You say you do excess of 80 hrs a week as it is part of the job.... Welll so is the 10 + weeks holiday for teachers - Part of their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Still no reason why training days couldn't take place during non-term days, there are plenty. They. Are. Set. In. Law. By. The. Government. The. Government. Say. They. Have. To. Be. In. Term. Time. Not. The. Schools. Or. The. Teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 So, if you had to do some training to do with your job, you'd give up holiday to do so, would you? eer. is this a serious question...? I remember going 18 months (almost) with out a single days holiday...Op Fresco/Op Telic... and regularly get called in off leave/holiday to work.... I am lucky enough however, to have been able to book a whole weeks holiday when I am off in 3 weeks time....trust me, that is lucky many dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 They. Are. Set. In. Law. By. The. Government. The. Government. Say. They. Have. To. Be. In. Term. Time. Not. The. Schools. Or. The. Teachers. For an educator, your use of punctuation is awful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 They. Are. Set. In. Law. By. The. Government. The. Government. Say. They. Have. To. Be. In. Term. Time. Not. The. Schools. Or. The. Teachers. the. point. being. made. is. maybe. it. should. be. changed. in. these. reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Err and nothing, I was just trying to balance the debate with the fact they do alot of work outside school hours and actually during the holidays themselves. You say you do excess of 80 hrs a week as it is part of the job.... Welll so is the 10 + weeks holiday for teachers - Part of their job. No, no, no. It;s totally unfair that part of a job that you sign up for is better than someone else's part of a job that they signed up for. I blame the unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 So, if you had to do some training to do with your job, you'd give up holiday to do so, would you? I thought they worked during non-school days (marking etc), if they don't and get 10weeks+ holiday a year then yes, they should give up holiday to learn how to do their job. My training at work doesn't effect my clients, I work around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 All of the teachers I know spend much of their evenings, weekends and lots of their holidays planning, marking and creating resources. I honestly wouldn't want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 the. point. being. made. is. maybe. it. should. be. changed. in. these. reforms. And if Grove thought it necessary he would have. I allow you to draw your own conclusions from the fact he hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Err and nothing, I was just trying to balance the debate with the fact they do alot of work outside school hours and actually during the holidays themselves. You say you do excess of 80 hrs a week as it is part of the job.... Welll so is the 10 + weeks holiday for teachers - Part of their job. indeed..and we are talking about maybe in times of cuts getting value for money/more from less etc...that would it be possible for teacher leave to be brought in line with the norm....if it is not possible then...so be it..just asking the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I thought they worked during non-school days (marking etc), if they don't and get 10weeks+ holiday a year then yes, they should give up holiday to learn how to do their job. My raining at work doesn't effect my clients, I work around them. So you're trained AT work, during working hours? QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 The holidays are for the children. If there are no children to teach then what's the point of the teacher being there? What's the point of giving a teacher 4 weeks holiday and have them sitting in their classrooms planning and marking, when they could just plan and mark from home? I don't hear the uproar about those that work from home in other professions. If it was worked out, I expect many teachers probably get less then 4 weeks real holiday time a year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 indeed..and we are talking about maybe in times of cuts getting value for money/more from less etc...that would it be possible for teacher leave to be brought in line with the norm....if it is not possible then...so be it..just asking the question How many people do you think would go into teaching if they also lost the holidays? The fact that we are going to offer £20k to maths and science grads with a 1st and £15k to those with a 2:1 just to train to be teachers should scream at the precipice we are on. I'm the only maths grad' (from my course) who trained as a teacher still teaching and the lowest paid by a very long way. I stuck with it as it's a vocation but young people need the ££ and will follow it workwise and I don't blame them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 So you're trained AT work, during working hours? QED No such thing as "working hours" in what I do. I have to get projects completed or my company doesn't get paid and I'm out of a job. My clients don't have to wait for anything because I'm training. Teachers' clients are their pupils, the service they receive shouldn't be effected by the teachers lack of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 No such thing as "working hours" in what I do. I have to get projects completed or my company doesn't get paid and I'm out of a job. My clients don't have to wait for anything because I'm training. Teachers' clients are their pupils, the service they receive shouldn't be effected by the teachers lack of training. So the mandatory child protection/vulnerable adult training, that we were told we had to undergo by the Dept of Ed, is due to lack of training or new rules/legislation introduced by HMG? The CEOPS training we've got next month, due to lack of training is it or making sure we can keep our charges safe and also educate the parents? Should we already know all that, what with being teachers 'n all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 So the mandatory child protection/vulnerable adult training, that we were told we had to undergo by the Dept of Ed, is due to lack of training or new rules/legislation introduced by HMG? The CEOPS training we've got next month, due to lack of training is it or making sure we can keep our charges safe and also educate the parents? Should we already know all that, what with being teachers 'n all? Just do it when the kids are off, it's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Just do it when the kids are off, it's not rocket science. Ummmmm. Dates set by the Dept of Ed. Suggest you have a word with Gove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollards Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 I don't post often as you can tell, however... I'm having a look on here in a quick break before I go to a Drama evening, supporting my schools students, and will be home at 8.30-9 after getting at 7.30 this morning. I don't brag about how hard I work, (I know others who work longer, both teachers and not) nor do I glory in how great the holidays are. To echo the previous poster, good holidays are part of the job. If you want me to work an extra 3, 4 , 5 (or whatever) weeks a year then 'll want paying for them, but my biggest concern about this approach is that there is enough of a problem recruiting decent teachers now. (Another part of my job as an Assistant Head.) If the perk of decent holidays goes, I think we'll be creating an even bigger problem to be honest. As I've said many times before, if the holidays are so great why are there not more applicants when I advertise a maths post?? I think I know the reasons for that one. And it's not just that, like the poster above, having graduated 17 years ago, everyone I know from my Maths degree earns consideriably more than me. (And I'm not complaining about my own salary.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Ummmmm. Dates set by the Dept of Ed. Suggest you have a word with Gove. Do it as homework then, you c*nts love homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Do it as homework then, you c*nts love homework. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 27 June, 2011 Share Posted 27 June, 2011 Bloody Hell Bollards, this might be "The Lounge", but who do you think are coming out with sensible, reasoned and balanced posts like that? The mods will be all over you like a rash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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