saint lard Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Anyone breaks into my house with the intention of theft or otherwise will get a damn good beating. I will protect what is mine to the hilt,especially when i have my child in my house,you have no idea of what the intruders intentions are. As soon as they cross the threshold uninvited they are a legitimate target for anyone who wants to protect property/family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Suspicion of murder, it would appear: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Salford-Burglar-John-Bennell-Stabbed-To-Death-Peter-Flanagan-Held-On-Suspicion-Of-Murder/Article/201106416017860?lpos=UK_News_First_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16017860_Salford_Burglar_John_Bennell_Stabbed_To_Death%3A_Peter_Flanagan_Held_On_Suspicion_Of_Murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 break into my house and threaten me, kids etc . You die. Or I will attempting to kill you. Either way ,one of us dies. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 If 4 masked blokes break into your house, you have to assume your life is in jeopardy. On the face of it, it seems pefectly reasonable to protect yourself against this situation and if that means attacking them before they get to you, then i cannot see the problem. I think i'd ****e my ring away if i was suddenly confronted by 4 geezers in masks, so fair play to him for having a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Released without charge apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 reasonable force.... This was not one burgler but 4. The house hold had a great level of danger from a gang of 4 burglers so a higer level of reasonable force is appropriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 2 out of 3 released, 57 year old remains in custody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 I am concerned that the burgular was carried away by his mates, It implies that the incidint happend out side the home. If the danger was decreasing then then this would not be reasonable force. If the home owner had pre-armed and pre-meditated this attack this could be murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 I am concerned that the burgular was carried away by his mates, It implies that the incidint happend out side the home. If the danger was decreasing then then this would not be reasonable force. If the home owner had pre-armed and pre-meditated this attack this could be murder. How do you arrive at that conclusion. It is just as likely he was stabbed inside the property, at which point the other burglars said "alright we're leaving" and carried him out. Anyway, I don't believe this was just a straight-forward burglary. If it was then why would it take four of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 How do you arrive at that conclusion. It is just as likely he was stabbed inside the property, at which point the other burglars said "alright we're leaving" and carried him out. Anyway, I don't believe this was just a straight-forward burglary. If it was then why would it take four of them? My neighbour was burgled, 3 of them went in, not as a show of force though, because they knew my neighbour was away, one of the burgulars was her son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 (edited) If anyone brakes into your house you should be allowed to kill them, however this puts us down the American route and if home owners have more powers it would mean burgulars would come tooled up more too. It's a difficult one to legislate for and get right. Edited 24 June, 2011 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Its quite simple, they should get a hand chopped off. (Preferably in public, in the summer at 3pm on Saturdays) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Its quite simple, they should get a hand chopped off. (Preferably in public, in the summer at 3pm on Saturdays) Half-time entertainment perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 along with pedophiles getting their balls chopped The world would then be a better place (pompey wouldn't even exist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Food for thought: http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/07/03/violent-burglar-shot-in-self-defense/ http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2010/11/23/evening-burglar-fatally-shot-by-lancaster-tx-homeowner/ http://public.findlaw.com/abaflg/flg-5-2d-2.html In 2004 Patrick Mercer MP won a ballot for private member's bills and put the choice of new law to a vote on the Today Programme on radio 4. The listeners voted to allow homeowners to use any 'force necessary' to defend themselves against intruders on their property. Mecrer said 'the public have voted, the bastards' and 'burglars have rights too', hoever he did put such a bill forward for discussion. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Paul+Routledge%3A+Tony's+burgled+the+Tories'+crime+plan.-a0125974713 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Tony Martin was convicted of murder (reduced to manslaughter) because he pre-meditated the event keeping a gun ready for just that occasion and he shot the teenager in the back as he was running away. I accept the burgler could have been stabbed in the property and run out or mates carried him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints11 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 I am concerned that the burgular was carried away by his mates, It implies that the incidint happend out side the home. If the danger was decreasing then then this would not be reasonable force. If the home owner had pre-armed and pre-meditated this attack this could be murder. Get a grip! Theres one less scumbag on the streets now, don't go around breaking into peoples homes and you'll be fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13900285 So the dead burglar was already on police bail for another suspected burglary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macey_J2 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Depends on if they intended to kill him or not! I would presume they certainly didnt mean to kill any of the burglars but let them know not to mess with them. It looks like he might have been stabbed outside the building, but this is still defending it and the occupants. I congratulate them on their actions, shame he died, as this has potentially got the home owner in more trouble than if he hadnt died from his injury. I wonder if the three other balaclava wearing burglers will have the balls to come forward to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony13579 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 (edited) Get a grip! Theres one less scumbag on the streets now, don't go around breaking into peoples homes and you'll be fine! If your job is a postman or a meter reader or an emergencey gas repair man there is a risk that a person like tony martin might just decide you are a burgler and shoot you. I dont totally disagree with what you are saying... however... If you are informed of the law then you won't say the wrong thing if an event like this happens... Edited 24 June, 2011 by tony13579 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 If your job is a postman or a meter reader or an emergencey gas repair man there is a risk that a person like tony martin might just decide you are a burgler and shoot you. I dont totally disagree with what you are saying... however... If you are informed of the law then you won't say the wrong thing if an event like this happens... I don't think your average meter reader or postman will let themselves into a property in the early hours of the morning. I think most can spot the difference between a bloke armed with a pen-light & a pencil and with a British Gas ID badge & 4 blokes in balaclavas and a bag marked "swag". I'm don't recall Tony Martin being driven to the edge of a break-down by the postie dropping by ocassionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Given a poll on this subject, I am convinced that the vast majority of UK subjects would defend the rights of the householder to act as he decides ! It's only the politicians and judges who get confused about the difference between right and wrong ! All IMHO of course ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu0x Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 If the home owner had pre-armed and pre-meditated this attack this could be murder. Tony Martin was convicted of murder (reduced to manslaughter) because he pre-meditated the event keeping a gun ready for just that occasion and he shot the teenager in the back as he was running away. Pre-meditation is a completely irrelevant concept and has no bearing on murder in UK law. Tony Martin was convicted because he used more than reasonable force. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Defending one's home against intruders who break in should have immunity from prosecution whatever the injury. Secondly where groups are involved in crimes and not all are arrested & convicted, those that are should be locked up indefinitely until they name their accomplices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 Tony Martin was convicted of murder (reduced to manslaughter) because he pre-meditated the event keeping a gun ready for just that occasion and he shot the teenager in the back as he was running away. I accept the burgler could have been stabbed in the property and run out or mates carried him out. It's pretty pointless keeping your weapon of choice locked away downstairs now is it? I never expect to be burgled, I still keep my weapon of choice at hand, as you never know. So if you don't pre-meditate being burgled and then you are, but you have no weapon to defend yourself with, as you see this as wrong, what are you going to use to defend yourself if they enter your bedroom for the family jewellry? Will you be throwing rolled up socks and pants at the burgular? That'll teach them won't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 It's pretty pointless keeping your weapon of choice locked away downstairs now is it? I never expect to be burgled, I still keep my weapon of choice at hand, as you never know. So if you don't pre-meditate being burgled and then you are, but you have no weapon to defend yourself with, as you see this as wrong, what are you going to use to defend yourself if they enter your bedroom for the family jewellry? Will you be throwing rolled up socks and pants at the burgular? That'll teach them won't it. How often do you honestly think Burglars enter a room where people are sleeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 How often do you honestly think Burglars enter a room where people are sleeping? Some burglars do it lots of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 How often do you honestly think Burglars enter a room where people are sleeping? LOL.....a bloody lot, are you for real? Do you think the bedrooms are out of bounds for a burglar? What are they there for? Where do you keep your valuables? Is it downstairs? In the kitchen? Maybe in a box with 'Valuables' written on the box? I think a lot of people keep the valuable and personal stuff at close hand. I never leave cash, jewellery, car keys etc downstairs,a burglar will know that most people would do the same and would not hesitate in entering a bedroom with occupants, if he hasn't had a good haul already. He'll have no fear of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 When asked about whether householders should be able to defend themselves, Mr Mulligan said: "Within the existing legal framework, you can use reasonable force to protect yourself - the emphasis on reasonable." What a load of ********. If I was to find a masked man in my house in the middle of the night, he would intend on doing harm to me to defend himself, so I would ensure I done too much damage to him so that he couldn't do me. THAT however, would be unreasonable and I would end up behind bars. Wrong. I hope that c*nt died a painful, slow death. Scum of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 The law is obviously correct. What a bunch of violent people we have on this thread. I reckon some of you would love to be burgled just to give you an excuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 LOL.....a bloody lot, are you for real? Do you think the bedrooms are out of bounds for a burglar? What are they there for? Where do you keep your valuables? Is it downstairs? In the kitchen? Maybe in a box with 'Valuables' written on the box? I think a lot of people keep the valuable and personal stuff at close hand. I never leave cash, jewellery, car keys etc downstairs,a burglar will know that most people would do the same and would not hesitate in entering a bedroom with occupants , if he hasn't had a good haul already. He'll have no fear of you. You'd be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 The law is obviously correct. What a bunch of violent people we have on this thread. I reckon some of you would love to be burgled just to give you an excuse... No we wouldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 If anyone brakes into your house you should be allowed to kill them, however this puts us down the American route and if home owners have more powers it would mean burgulars would come tooled up more too. It's a difficult one to legislate for and get right. until someones 14 year old lad, never been in trouble, gets in with some yobs and they dare him to climb in open kitchen window to pinch 4 cans of lager - fair penalty death? No you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 until someones 14 year old lad, never been in trouble, gets in with some yobs and they dare him to climb in open kitchen window to pinch 4 cans of lager - fair penalty death? No you are wrong. Reminiscent of Oliver Twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 until someones 14 year old lad, never been in trouble, gets in with some yobs and they dare him to climb in open kitchen window to pinch 4 cans of lager - fair penalty death? No you are wrong. We could try out an experiment. Pmail me your address and I'll pop round one night after dark with a few mates wearing masks and break into your house. Would be interesting to see how react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 24 June, 2011 Share Posted 24 June, 2011 If I saw 4 men breaking into my house with masks on, and my family were here with me, I would grab the biggest knife I could and stab until they left. Alternatively, you could get the guitar out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 We could try out an experiment. Pmail me your address and I'll pop round one night after dark with a few mates wearing masks and break into your house. Would be interesting to see how react. proving what? Not very bright response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 If I saw 4 men breaking into my house with masks on, and my family were here with me, I would grab the biggest knife I could and stab until they left. I'm not sure, but I think that would be unreasonable force. But I guess you could argue that you were holding back your ultimate force orange-belt karate. Either way, I think you could just infract the burglar in the first instance. Personally, I think that the goatee beard is making you a bit of a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Alternatively, you could get the guitar out. Nice one! The ghost of Deppo's cock bums hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Too early to make any decision over whether this was reasonable force or not - not least because we don't actually know if it was the homeowner who did the stabbing or not. It could just as easily be the burglars fighting amongst themselves or an accident. We don't know where the stabbing took place, we don't know why the burglary was taking place at this particular property, we don't know if the burglars were known to the residents, we don't know if this was gang or drug related, we don't know if the murder weapon has been identified and who owned it. Far too easy to make snap judgements but I think I'll wait until some more facts come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 This is The Lounge, we only deal with hearsay, crap media and personal opinion, not facts!! You have a point though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 No you wouldn't. Why do people post guesses as facts? Becaue I work for the the Crown Prosecution Service. Do you really think you can stick a knife into someone, take their life and get away scot free without a very, very good reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Becaue I work for the the Crown Prosecution Service. Do you really think you can stick a knife into someone, take their life and get away scot free without a very, very good reason? Well I would argue that if four people turn up to the house of a law abiding family wearing balaclavas then that is a good enough reason for somebody to stick a knife in them. I see the chap is a serial offender who has been in prison; he will not reoffend again and the people of Salford will sleep safer in their beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Well I would argue that if four people turn up to the house of a law abiding family wearing balaclavas then that is a good enough reason for somebody to stick a knife in them. I see the chap is a serial offender who has been in prison; he will not reoffend again and the people of Salford will sleep safer in their beds. You can argue the point all you like. The issue is still that taking a life is a more serious offence than breaking and entering. The police always advise to avoid conflict and call them. I don't think I have ever heard any one from the Criminal Justice System advise that you take a knife to an intruder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 You can argue the point all you like. The issue is still that taking a life is a more serious offence than breaking and entering. The police always advise to avoid conflict and call them. I don't think I have ever heard any one from the Criminal Justice System advise that you take a knife to an intruder. Very good advice indeed, but it is just that, advice. Hard to avoid conflict with 4 masked men in a two bed semi. What advice do the police give after plan a failed, roll over and die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 The issue is still that taking a life is a more serious offence than breaking and entering. Not on this forum, it's not. Don't forget that this forum punishes pointlessness and sarcasm as a greater offence than racism, homophobia and disablism, so you aren't going to get anyone agreeing with you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Wasn't our esteemed Prime Minister promising only the other day (before this event) that his government will review the rights of householders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Wasn't our esteemed Prime Minister promising only the other day (before this event) that his government will review the rights of householders? I expect he has made a U-turn. Oh no, sorry, I mean "shown strong leadership skills and reconsidered the position of the government." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Not on this forum, it's not. Don't forget that this forum punishes pointlessness and sarcasm as a greater offence than racism, homophobia and disablism, so you aren't going to get anyone agreeing with you here. But we do agree with him. The point is not about what the most serious offence is - we all know that. The point is what to do when confronted by 4 masked men burgling your house. If somebody is in your house it is very difficult not to have some sort of confrontation, unless of course you live in a mansion. You cannot blame a homeowner for protecting their family and property. How would you have reacted in the homeowners situation? It's tragic that a man had to loose his life in this, but I think most people will agree that he had choices. So it's not the case that we disagree, we don't, we are all in agreement about the offences. Great advice - don't get involved, phone the police. Unfortunately the practicalities of it are very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 But we do agree with him. The point is not about what the most serious offence is - we all know that. The point is what to do when confronted by 4 masked men burgling your house. If somebody is in your house it is very difficult not to have some sort of confrontation, unless of course you live in a mansion. You cannot blame a homeowner for protecting their family and property. How would you have reacted in the homeowners situation? It's tragic that a man had to loose his life in this, but I think most people will agree that he had choices. So it's not the case that we disagree, we don't, we are all in agreement about the offences. Great advice - don't get involved, phone the police. Unfortunately the practicalities of it are very limited. I suspect that until you are in that situation most people wouldn't know what they would do. It's all very well saying I'd kill 'em, tear 'em apart, garrotte them with a shoelace, slowly burn them to death over a toaster etc etc but the fact is I simply don't know. I suspect I would cower under the covers and only find out the damage in the morning. At which point I would tell myself that if only I'd been awake I would have confronted them, killed them, garrotted them with a shoelace etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now