Stadium Developments

[The Kraken]

I pointed out to you that interview that interview is now 15 months old and the club has since been promoted to one division below the top flight.

 

Too early applied then, it may not so much apply now or even relatively soon.

 

Until I hear from the chairman that his plans have accelerated and the club are going to increase the stadium capacity, I'm going to assume it won't happen yet. But if you want to carry on believing that the club should and will install another 10K of seats right now, please be my guest.

[Matthew Le God]

If my posts irk you that much, why don't you block me?

 

Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

 

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

 

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.

[Matthew Le God]

Until I hear from the chairman that his plans have accelerated and the club are going to increase the stadium capacity, I'm going to assume it won't happen yet. But if you want to carry on believing that the club should and will install another 10K of seats right now, please be my guest.

 

You were the one that said...

 

And, in Cortese's own words, its far too early to think about doing them right now.

 

Even though the "right now" you were talking about was over 15 months ago.

 

In any case who said the plans would need to be accelerated? A comment that it was "too early" in March 2010 doesn't been the plans have been accelerated if the club looks closely at it in June 2011. That could always have been the plan for all we know.

Edited 25 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

You were the one that said...

 

 

 

Even though the "right now" you were talking about was over 15 months ago.

 

In any case who said the plans would need to be accelerated? A comment that it was too early in March 2010 doesn't been the plans have been accelerated if the club looks closely at it in June 2011. That could always have been the plan for all we know.

 

As I said. Until I hear from the chairman that his plans have accelerated and the club are going to increase the stadium capacity, I'm going to assume it won't happen yet. If someone says its "far too early to think about doing it yet", my assumption is that he doesn't mean he's going to start within the next 15 months. You clearly feel differently, and as I said, you carry on, I'm not going to try to change your mind. I'd appreciate it if you'd also do me the same courtesy; I've made my position very clear and I find your hypothesising in the face of evidence to the contrary all rather pointless. Please consider this my last comment on the matter with you.

[Thedelldays]

you are like the "fun" hoover.....

 

going from thread to thread sucking the fun out of them

[Matthew Le God]

you are like the "fun" hoover.....

 

going from thread to thread sucking the fun out of them

 

So what would this thread be about if I wasn't in it?

 

You think that the stadium doesn't need expanding, doesn't that suck all the fun out of the thread?

[egg]

 

In any case who said the plans would need to be accelerated? A comment that it was too early in March 2010 doesn't been the plans have been accelerated if the club looks closely at it in June 2011. That could always have been the plan for all we know.

 

So you now suggest that there could be plans after promotion to division two. Of all the crap you have posted on this thread that's up there.

[Matthew Le God]

So you now suggest that there could be plans after promotion to division two. Of all the crap you have posted on this thread that's up there.

 

That isn't what I said at all.

[egg]

So what would this thread be about if I wasn't in it?

 

You think that the stadium doesn't need expanding, doesn't that suck all the fun out of the thread?

 

 

 

Problem is all the common sense has been sucked out of you.

 

Initially you sparked an interesting debate. Since then you've just posted ********.

[egg]

That isn't what I said at all.

 

 

 

It's how I understood it. So what did you mean.

[Matthew Le God]

Problem is all the common sense has been sucked out of you.

 

Initially you sparked an interesting debate. Since then you've just posted ********.

 

The opening post of this thread...

 

Are there any plans to expand SMS now that Saints are backing in the Championship. I am sure there will be a number of games that will sell-out this season and with the potential of getting back to the premiership it would be nice to think there are plans in the pipeline?

 

A number of posters being negative just because the majority of the last 25 years it has been rubbish supporting Saints has drained the life out of this thread. I'm the positive one saying there are strong signs that 32k isn't big enough.

 

It isn't me being the "fun hoover" as DellDays puts it. He should be looking closer to home.

[egg]

The opening post of this thread...

 

 

 

A number of posters being negative just because the majority of the last 25 years it has been rubbish supporting Saints has drained the life out of this thread. I'm the positive one saying there are strong signs that 32k isn't big enough.

 

It isn't me being the "fun hoover" as DellDays puts it. He should be looking closer to home.

 

 

 

It's not about being positive or negative. It's about commercial reality.

[Matthew Le God]

It's how I understood it. So what did you mean.

 

Cortese has already said they have been in discussions with the council and have plans for what they want to do. He said 15 months ago it was too early to really look into it. It is now 15 months later, I'm not saying things have progressed much more, but it is no longer the "now" that Cortese was talking about in March 2010.

[John B]

The opening post of this thread...

 

 

 

A number of posters being negative just because the majority of the last 25 years it has been rubbish supporting Saints has drained the life out of this thread. I'm the positive one saying there are strong signs that 32k isn't big enough.

 

It isn't me being the "fun hoover" as DellDays puts it. He should be looking closer to home.

 

It is nothing to do with negativity just common sense which on this subject you appear to have none

[Trader]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matthew Le God]

It's not about being positive or negative. It's about commercial reality.

 

It is nothing to do with negativity just common sense which on this subject you appear to have none

 

As clubs in the future will be dependant on breaking even at minimum, they need to increase as far as they can their revenue streams in order to compete. If Southampton were in the Premier League last season they would most likely have been 12th in terms of average attendance.

 

Many clubs are also looking at increasing capacities in the short to medium term, so by standing still and not increasing above 32k Saints would fall behind and drop lower than 12th. There is a reasonable correlation between attendances and footballing success. Cortese clearly has higher ambitions than 12th and thus will require a stadium capacity increase to match these ambitions.

Edited 25 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[egg]

Cortese has already said they have been in discussions with the council and have plans for what they want to do. He said 15 months ago it was too early to really look into it. It is now 15 months later, I'm not saying things have progressed much more, but it is no longer the "now" that Cortese was talking about in March 2010.

 

 

 

That's a long winded way of saying what I said you said but with you not saying what I said you said.

 

Sorry, I but this talking in riddles is catching.

[Avenue Saint]

Lol... Fools still raging on!

 

Matt le G might be pedantic but the man is passionate about his club! I don't see anyone who can take the moral upper ground here??

 

Nice to see Turkish with his multiple logins again...

 

Lmao...

[Turkish]

I'll tell you were some of those supporters were who absented themselves in your so-called hour of need. They boycotted Lowe and the Quisling, realising that the most effective way to get rid of them, was to cease paying their hard-earned money into their pockets. You say that you remember the Branfoot era; well, then you'll understand how effective a boycott can be. As to how many boycotted, who knows? But I was one of them towards the end of that season, even though I had a paid ST. We were getting higher attendances in the third division last season than we got under that last Lowe/Wilde season with the Dutch jokers, so what does that suggest to you about the number of potential supporters who stayed away?

 

It was a high-risk strategy, as we didn't know what we would get in their place, but we struck lucky and ridded ourselves of Askham, Richards and all of the other charlatans who held shares too.

 

Anyway, the point is, that for this reason, comparisons of our attendances from the former era as a guide to what we could achieve now, are pointless.

 

But Lowe had gone by the time of the Burnley game. Are you saying that despite the administratiors begging fans to fill the stadium and telling us we needed every penny possible our other 21,000 would be regulars were all on strike? On strike against a regime which no longer existed and ignoring the club in it's hour of need. We know they were about because yourself and MLG have told us they are on the clubs database. How can this be, when a club which fans claim get get crowds of 45,000 upwards have only slightly more than half that turn out when they are needed most.

Edited 25 June, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

The opening post of this thread...

 

 

 

A number of posters being negative just because the majority of the last 25 years it has been rubbish supporting Saints has drained the life out of this thread. I'm the positive one saying there are strong signs that 32k isn't big enough.

 

It isn't me being the "fun hoover" as DellDays puts it. He should be looking closer to home.

 

There really isn't. Not at the moment anyway.

[Matthew Le God]

But Lowe had gone by the time of the Burnley game. Are you saying that despite the administratiors begging fans to fill the stadium and telling us we needed every penny possible our other 21,000 would be regulars were all on strike? On strike against a regime which no longer existed and ignoring the club in it's hour of need. We know they were there because yourself and MLG have told us they are on the clubs database. It's extrememly odd when a club which fans claim get get crowds of 45,000 upwards and only slightly more than half that turn out when they are needed most.

 

We have been through this... There is a huge difference between a match towards the top of the Premier League with Saints full of internationals and Premier League players, and one with Saints on the verge of relegation in the Championship with an awful squad. Football clubs have hardcore support who turn up no matter what (within reason) and thus that only turn up in the good times. Thus matches after administration happened had huge attendances considering they were Championship matches for a very poor side.

[Turkish]

We have been through this... There is a huge difference between a match towards the top of the Premier League with Saints full of internationals and Premier League players, and one with Saints on the verge of relegation in the Championship with an awful squad. Football clubs have hardcore support who turn up no matter what (within reason) and thus that only turn up in the good times. Thus matches after administration happened had huge attendances considering they were Championship matches for a very poor side.

 

Dont you think it's a little strange though? A club with 45,000 fans who would be regulars given a certain set of circumstances, desperate for cash and being begged to attend have almost half of it's regular fans effectively sticking two fingers up at it. They'd rather see it die than spend £25 trying to keep it alive so they can bring back the glory days when they can pack the stadium to it's rafters again, only there'd be 13,000 more of them this time.

[Matthew Le God]

Dont you think it's a little strange though? A club with 45,000 fans who would be regulars given a certain set of circumstances, desperate for cash and being begged to attend have almost half of it's regular fans effectively sticking two fingers up at it. They'd rather see it die than spend £25 trying to keep it alive so they can bring back the glory days when they can pack the stadium to it's rafters again, only there'd be 13,000 more of them this time.

 

Why strange? Clubs have those that are obsessed and hardcore, and those that are casual and in many ways "glory hunters" only there in the good times.

 

The club was never going to be saved by fans going to those post admin games and generating money, the club was entirely dependant on outside investment.

 

Also the three post admin/pre Liebherr games at St Mary's...

 

vs Charlton 27,228

vs Palace 23,220 (on a Monday)

vs Burnley 23,927 (not 21k as you said)

 

A number of Premier League teams would be delighted with those figures, let alone a club that was in administration and about to plunge into the 3rd tier.

Edited 25 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

[Turkish]

Why strange? Clubs have those that are obsessed and hardcore, and those that are casual and in many ways "glory hunters" only there in the good times.

 

The club was never going to be saved by fans going to those post admin games and generating money, the club was entirely dependant on outside investment.

 

Also the three post admin, pre Liebherr games at St Mary's...

 

vs Charlton 27,228

vs Palace 23,220 (on a Monday)

vs Burnley 23,927 (not 21k as you said)

 

A number of Premier League teams would be delighted with those figures, let alone a club that was in administration and about to plunge into the 3rd tier.

 

I'd have thought a club with 45,000 would be regular fans would have been able to attract a crowd of 13,000 less for a vital game, when the fans were told in no uncertain terms to pack the stadium and that every penny mattered, wouldn't you? I presume there were a lot of birthday parties, holidays, christenings etc that day.

[Matthew Le God]

I'd have thought a club with 45,000 would be regular fans would have been able to attract a crowd of 13,000 less for a vital game, when the fans were told in no uncertain terms to pack the stadium and that every penny mattered, wouldn't you? I presume there were a lot of birthday parties, holidays, christenings etc that day.

 

Every penny didn't matter, most fans knew that. If Saints didn't have a buyer it didn't matter how many turned up to the stadium against Burnley. Just short of 24k is a huge figure all things considered (administration, 2nd tier Saints team that was awful vs a 2nd tier opposition, impeding relegation to the 3rd tier).

[Turkish]

Every penny didn't matter, most fans knew that. If Saints didn't have a buyer it didn't matter how many turned up to the stadium against Burnley. Just short of 24k is a huge figure all things considered (administration, 2nd tier Saints team that was awful vs a 2nd tier opposition, impeding relegation to the 3rd tier).

 

it isn't when you have 45,000 fans who are desperate to go and were being turned away in their thousands only 4 years before. Strange that these fans would rather see the club die than go to that game to watch that team play that game. And we were told every penny mattered, Mark Fry told fans to pack the stadium out.

[Matthew Le God]

it isn't when you have 45,000 fans who are desperate to go and were being turned away in their thousands only 4 years before. Strange that these fans would rather see the club die than go to that game to watch that team play that game.

 

As I've said before, many fans are casual and simply don't care in the same way many on here do. The prospect of Premier League football is what attracts them in. Many of those that had season tickets/membership/regular match goer in the Premier League years aren't interested in League One/Championship football and don't go to many games. They flood in at the first hint of success, hence why the Walsall game sold out ahead of matchday.

 

And we were told every penny mattered, Mark Fry told fans to pack the stadium out.

 

Just because he said it, doesn't make it true. Whether that game had 24k (as it did) or sold out with 32k, it didn't make a difference to the survival of the club. The club needed an investor, the extra money those 8k would bring wouldn't have plugged many holes. The match in terms of the clubs financial survival was pointless.

 

Look back the season before to 2007/08 and you will see the club sold out the Sheff Utd game, the fans knew that the club could stay up on the last day. In 2008/09, it was out of the players hands if they stayed up or not and out of the fans hands if the club survived or not and thus less appealing to the casual fans.

Edited 25 June, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Turkish]

Dont you think it's a bit strange though, this could have been our last ever game, yet only just over half of our 45,000 regulars turned up. I'm surprised you are dobuting Mark Frys comments as well, seeing as how you take as gospel Corteses word, what makes you doubt Mark Frys credentials to speak in facts and truth?

[CB Fry]

I'll tell you were some of those supporters were who absented themselves in your so-called hour of need. They boycotted Lowe and the Quisling, realising that the most effective way to get rid of them, was to cease paying their hard-earned money into their pockets. You say that you remember the Branfoot era; well, then you'll understand how effective a boycott can be. As to how many boycotted, who knows? But I was one of them towards the end of that season, even though I had a paid ST. We were getting higher attendances in the third division last season than we got under that last Lowe/Wilde season with the Dutch jokers, so what does that suggest to you about the number of potential supporters who stayed away?

 

It was a high-risk strategy, as we didn't know what we would get in their place, but we struck lucky and ridded ourselves of Askham, Richards and all of the other charlatans who held shares too.

 

Anyway, the point is, that for this reason, comparisons of our attendances from the former era as a guide to what we could achieve now, are pointless.

 

 

Ah yes. The Lowe boycott. Of course.

 

Average attendance in Lowe's final season first time round - 23,614.

 

Average attendance in the Wilde season, Lowe gone and boycott over, and we finished sixth and got in the play offs - 23,556.

 

I'm sure you'll come back and say well he still had shares and all those fans had a crystal ball knowing he's come back again and were still boycotting just in case.

 

We'll see how many billion fans pack the stadium for the Doncaster and Barnsley games next season with those 10,000 boycotters back in the game.

[Wes Tender]

Ah yes. The Lowe boycott. Of course.

 

Average attendance in Lowe's final season first time round - 23,614.

 

Average attendance in the Wilde season, Lowe gone and boycott over, and we finished sixth and got in the play offs - 23,556.

 

I'm sure you'll come back and say well he still had shares and all those fans had a crystal ball knowing he's come back again and were still boycotting just in case.

 

We'll see how many billion fans pack the stadium for the Doncaster and Barnsley games next season with those 10,000 boycotters back in the game.

 

I'm not talking about any boycott of the Lowe first tenure (I'm not sure that there was one particularly) I'm talking about the boycott when Lowe returned with the Quisling. I couldn't have made it much clearer, if you cared to read it a bit more carefully. I've just checked the attendance figures for most of the matches played during that period and attendances were well down, often being 14/15000. My understanding was that we needed 17000 to break even at that time, so we were short on too many occasions. So it is a fact at least that attendances in the third division were much higher than those when we were in our last year of the second. Why should that be, do you think?

[Flyer]

If Saints got promoted, they would just charge more for tickets until they are on the verge of not selling out.

 

It makes little sense to invest millions which will take years to make back and only if they sell out when they can just charge more with no initial outlay.

I know 1st hand this is an option even with an 18k stadium in the prem.

[slickmick]

Dont you think it's a bit strange though, this could have been our last ever game, yet only just over half of our 45,000 regulars turned up. I'm surprised you are dobuting Mark Frys comments as well, seeing as how you take as gospel Corteses word, what makes you doubt Mark Frys credentials to speak in facts and truth?

 

 

But MLG wont accept that Cortese might have just been saying what fans will want to hear, he's too obsessed about being right all the time.

[monosaint]

Another quote from Wikipedia for you:

 

"Liverpool is a city and metropolitan borough of Merseyside,England, along the eastern side of the Mersey Estuary. As of 2001 Liverpool had a population of 435,500, and lies at the centre of the wider Liverpool UrbanArea, which had a population of 816,216.

 

Southampton has a city population of 234,000 and an urban population of 304,400."

 

If you take the catchment area which includes the likes of Eastleigh, Winchester and other such connurbations then I wouldn't be surprised to find they are not too dissimilar. Again, assume you take Everton and Tranmere in to the equation then you are not far off..

[Thedelldays]

If you take the catchment area which includes the likes of Eastleigh, Winchester and other such connurbations then I wouldn't be surprised to find they are not too dissimilar. Again, assume you take Everton and Tranmere in to the equation then you are not far off..

 

our "official" metropolitan area has 1.6m people.....

[The Kraken]

If you take the catchment area which includes the likes of Eastleigh, Winchester and other such connurbations then I wouldn't be surprised to find they are not too dissimilar. Again, assume you take Everton and Tranmere in to the equation then you are not far off..

 

Do you think Liverpool doesn't have similar local towns and villages outside the city centre or something? I have family in an around Liverpool and the catchment area is huge, if not in geographical size then certainly in terms of population. Take the Wirral peninsula alone and you have a population of around 300,000 just in its Metropolitan Borough, which is just on the other side of the Mersey to Liverpool.

 

All clubs have a catchment area around them.

Edited 26 June, 2011 by The Kraken

[Turkish]

Do you think Liverpool doesn't have similar local towns and villages outside the city centre or something? I have family in an around Liverpool and the catchment area is huge, if not in geographical size then certainly in terms of population. Take the Wirral peninsula alone and you have a population of around 300,000 just in its Metropolitan Borough, which is just on the other side of the Mersey to Liverpool.

 

All clubs have a catchment area around them.

 

Liverpools regular match going support goes all the way down to Crewe and covers north Wales as well. I know this is true because my old companies head office was in Crewe and all of them supported Liverpool and i have family in Wrexham and the vast majority of people i have met visiting them are Liverpool fans, this is a huge area, we are simply a million miles from even being close to support of clubs of this size. Forget that though we can get crowds as big as them because Eastleigh and Romsey aren't far away, Cortese is investing, our fans wont be boycotting this time and they said man would never climb everest.

Edited 26 June, 2011 by Turkish

[Thedelldays]

liverpools supports goes as far as plymouth...that I can promise you..so many janners support liverpool is mental

[CB Fry]

I'm not talking about any boycott of the Lowe first tenure (I'm not sure that there was one particularly) I'm talking about the boycott when Lowe returned with the Quisling. I couldn't have made it much clearer, if you cared to read it a bit more carefully. I've just checked the attendance figures for most of the matches played during that period and attendances were well down, often being 14/15000. My understanding was that we needed 17000 to break even at that time, so we were short on too many occasions. So it is a fact at least that attendances in the third division were much higher than those when we were in our last year of the second. Why should that be, do you think?

 

I'd say it was because we don't have a core fanbase bigger than, say, sheffield united whose average was better than ours in our relegation season. Those thousands of boycotters returning have not taken our averages back up to even wilde levels. Boycotters flood back, championship-only fans stay home. That must be why we can't even beat norwich for crowds in the third tier.

[monosaint]

Liverpools regular match going support goes all the way down to Crewe and covers north Wales as well. I know this is true because my old companies head office was in Crewe and all of them supported Liverpool and i have family in Wrexham and the vast majority of people i have met visiting them are Liverpool fans, this is a huge area, we are simply a million miles from even being close to support of clubs of this size. Forget that though we can get crowds as big as them because Eastleigh and Romsey aren't far away, Cortese is investing, our fans wont be boycotting this time and they said man would never climb everest.

 

Exactly!

[Tamesaint]

As clubs in the future will be dependant on breaking even at minimum, they need to increase as far as they can their revenue streams in order to compete. If Southampton were in the Premier League last season they would most likely have been 12th in terms of average attendance.

 

Many clubs are also looking at increasing capacities in the short to medium term, so by standing still and not increasing above 32k Saints would fall behind and drop lower than 12th. There is a reasonable correlation between attendances and footballing success. Cortese clearly has higher ambitions than 12th and thus will require a stadium capacity increase to match these ambitions.

 

Christ. Didn;t you lot have a lot of fun yesterday afternoon. I am pleased that I was unable to log on.

 

At the risk of being called airhead, an idiot, f*****g mental etc etc I do think you are correct.

[Turkish]

Christ. Didn;t you lot have a lot of fun yesterday afternoon. I am pleased that I was unable to log on.

 

At the risk of being called airhead, an idiot, f*****g mental etc etc I do think you are correct.

 

I've been thinking about this today and i agree. With Romsey, Winchester and Eastleigh near, Cortese investing, the new kit, season ticket installment plans returning, no fans boycott this time round, being on the up, no Rupert Lowe, Chelsea now getting 40,000 after getting 10,000 in 1984, Wolves expanding, West Ham moving to a new ground, Sunderland getting good crowds despite being being smaller city than us, Liverpool only being 4 times bigger than Southampton and having 3 clubs in the area all these factors coupled with them saying man would never climb everest, lead me to think you are not mental but that there is every chance we could get 45,000 every week if we were in the premier league.

[Smirking_Saint]

The only way Saints could drum up REGULAR crowds of up to 45k would be if we supplimented a stadium seat increase with a large amount of success and spending.

 

Long term this is a possibility.

 

But we are in the Championship for the first season under the Liebherr legacy, lets just wait and see what this season brings before jumping to conclusions.

[Wes Tender]

I've been thinking about this today and i agree. With Romsey, Winchester and Eastleigh near, Cortese investing, the new kit, season ticket installment plans returning, no fans boycott this time round, being on the up, no Rupert Lowe, Chelsea now getting 40,000 after getting 10,000 in 1984, Wolves expanding, West Ham moving to a new ground, Sunderland getting good crowds despite being being smaller city than us, Liverpool only being 4 times bigger than Southampton and having 3 clubs in the area all these factors coupled with them saying man would never climb everest, lead me to think you are not mental but that there is every chance we could get 45,000 every week if we were in the premier league.

 

I knew that we could win you round. As you see, the evidence is incontrovertible.

[Matthew Le God]

I've been thinking about this today and i agree. With Romsey, Winchester and Eastleigh near, Cortese investing, the new kit, season ticket installment plans returning, no fans boycott this time round, being on the up, no Rupert Lowe, Chelsea now getting 40,000 after getting 10,000 in 1984, Wolves expanding, West Ham moving to a new ground, Sunderland getting good crowds despite being being smaller city than us, Liverpool only being 4 times bigger than Southampton and having 3 clubs in the area all these factors coupled with them saying man would never climb everest, lead me to think you are not mental but that there is every chance we could get 45,000 every week if we were in the premier league.

 

I think this thread has come to its natural conclusion.

 

The End

 

(p.s. someone remind me when the day comes to collect from DellDays the £100 to go to a charity of my choosing )

[slickmick]

I think this thread has come to its natural conclusion.

 

The End

 

(p.s. someone remind me when the day comes to collect from DellDays the £100 to go to a charity of my choosing )

 

He's taking the p1ss.

[Matthew Le God]

He's taking the p1ss.

 

I'm aware of that. Hence my wink at the end of the first sentence.