Jump to content

Stadium Developments

BristolSaint

By BristolSaint
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Just because those other clubs are doing it does not mean they're all right.

 

Five professional sports clubs should in theory know a lot more than you or I. Yes, they may be wrong, but I think they are all in a position of having a lot more information on the matter than any of us.

Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
Five professional sports clubs should in theory know a lot more than you or I. Yes, they may be wrong, but I think they are all in a position of having a lot more information on the matter than any of us.

there you go...and the fact saints done have the builders in right now should end this debate

Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
The owners turing the investment into equity. Investment in infrastructure is exempt from UEFA's new rules.

 

what if they dont..?

how do we cater for the missing 13k fans..?

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
there you go...and the fact saints done have the builders in right now should end this debate

 

Exactly. MLG fails to grasp the concept that if the evidence were there for a need for a bigger stadium, plans would be in place to make that happen right now. We have a 5 year plan to get to the Premier League, with MLG's "logic" building works would be commencing now to ensure we have a 45k stadium to play in as soon as we get there.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
what if they dont..?

how do we cater for the missing 13k fans..?

 

There wont be any, we will get 45k every week because MLG says so despite having nothing to back this up.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
there you go...and the fact saints don't have the builders in right now should end this debate

 

Why should it? It is a long process and Liebherr/Cortese have only been at the club two years, both of which were in League One. The chairman has on numerous occasions mentioned this is the plan.

 

They have already begun construction of a training ground that wouldn't look out of place at a Champions League club. Why do that to settle for League One, Championship, bottom half of Premier League, middle of Premier League? They could have done nothing to Staplewood or made much smaller improvements to the standard of middle range Premier League clubs. They choose not to, which suggests they have very big plans and the resources to carry them out.

Edited by Matthew Le God
Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
Why should it? It is a long process and Liebherr/Cortese have only been at the club two years, both of which were in League One. The chairman has on numerous occasions mentioned this is the plan.

 

They have already begun construction of a training ground that wouldn't look out of place at a Champions League club. Why do that to settle for League One, Championship, bottom half of Premier League, middle of Premier League? They could have done nothing to Staplewood or made much smaller improvements to the standard of middle range Premier League clubs. They choose not to, which suggests they have very big plans and the resources to carry them out.

upgrading the training ground is small potatoes compered to whacking another 13k seats on the stadium..

 

I know you are relentless and will argue the point till you cant breath but just stop it..please it is tedious to suggest we should be thinking about expanding the stadium right now

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted

MLG; please answer this question. Do you believe Saints should be increasing stadium capacity now so that we have a larger stadium in time for kick off when we reach the Premier League? It seems to be that this is what you are suggesting.

 

Or do you believe (as pretty much everyone else seems to) that the owners are playing a waiting game of "lets get to the Premier League, see what sustained levels our support can possibly get to, and make an informed decision from that?

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Exactly. MLG fails to grasp the concept that if the evidence were there for a need for a bigger stadium, plans would be in place to make that happen right now. We have a 5 year plan to get to the Premier League, with MLG's "logic" building works would be commencing now to ensure we have a 45k stadium to play in as soon as we get there.

 

How do you know what stage they are currently at with stadium plans and that it isn't already quite advanced? Cortese has stated they have been in talks with the council already.

Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
How do you know what stage they are currently at with stadium plans and that it isn't already quite advanced? Cortese has stated they have been in talks with the council already.

 

where is this evidence..?

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
MLG; please answer this question. Do you believe Saints should be increasing stadium capacity now so that we have a larger stadium in time for kick off when we reach the Premier League? It seems to be that this is what you are suggesting.

 

Or do you believe (as pretty much everyone else seems to) that the owners are playing a waiting game of "lets get to the Premier League, see what sustained levels our support can possibly get to, and make an informed decision from that)?

 

Saints could in theory "do a Norwich" and be in the Premier League for 2012/13, so it is unlikely. Depends how long promotion takes. Also the club already has evidence of sustained 30k+ crowds over a four year period within the last decade, they don't need to wait to see if that level of support comes back.

 

Look at what Wolves are doing, one stand at a time, already started construction this summer and would have happened regardless of relegation last season.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted (edited)
How do you know what stage they are currently at with stadium plans and that it isn't already quite advanced? Cortese has stated they have been in talks with the council already.

 

As I've previously said; talks.

 

Please answer the question above; I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're advocating here.

 

Edit; that didn't really answer the question. Do you believe the club should be developing the stadium right now? Based on evidence that we can achieve crowds of 30K.

Edited by The Kraken
Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
Of the later point? Cortese mentioned discussions with the council about developments in the BBC interview last year and also at the fans dinner.

 

does that mean it is going to happen any time soon...?

NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted

saying about fans coming to last game of season who haven't been all season isn't necessarily right.

 

for easy maths

average could be 25,000

last game could be 30,000 - but all 30,000 could be regulars.

 

e.g. 20,000 go to every game; 10,000 pick and choose but go to about 50% - giving average of 25,000 - but all pick the celebration game therefore 30,000 regulars

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
I already have.

 

Not really, as I edited my post. You weren't clear. Do you believe Saints should be extending the stadium now to this 45k figure you mention, so its ready in time for when we get to the Premier League? If not, when should we extend the stadium.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
I have no evidence for this but equally I have no evidence which says we aren't going to either.

 

- 30k+ attendances for four consecutive years is good evidence.

- Many, many games between 2001 and 2005 selling out long in advance of the fixture is good evidence.

- Cortese having access to the ticketing database and research done by the club that we don't have access to provides him with evidence to make the statement at the fan dinner about crowds of 45k.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Not really, as I edited my post. You weren't clear. Do you believe Saints should be extending the stadium now to this 45k figure you mention, so its ready in time for when we get to the Premier League? If not, when should we extend the stadium.

 

Well none of us really know the Liebherr's true plans for the club. If they really do have the resources to back the club to challenge at the top of the Premier League then yes, it should be developed asap. If that isn't the case, then no.

 

So far, the investment in the academy and training ground suggests that these aren't hollow ambitions and they really do have the resources to put their money where their mouth is.

Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
Well none of us really know the Liebherr's true plans for the club. If they really do have the resources to back the club to challenge at the top of the Premier League then yes, it should be developed asap. If that isn't the case, then no.

 

So far, the investment in the academy and training ground suggests that these aren't hollow ambitions and they really do have the resources to put their money where their mouth is.

 

no, markus did...it remains to be seen whether the rest do.....

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
So it's almost unanimous on here except for mlg.

 

Not at all, a number of people on this thread have shown a similar(ish) view to mine. It just happens that Kraken, DellDays and you are the ones debating me.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
I think we will be signing fabregas this season an not barca. I have no evidence for this but equally I have no evidence which says we aren't going to either.

 

I think we are signing him because Tottenham signed Gary Lineker and Paul Gasgoine in the 80's and they said it was impossible to climb Mount Everest but someone did.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Not at all, a number of people on this thread have shown a similar(ish) view to mine. It just happens that Kraken, DellDays and you are the ones debating me.

 

I'm surprised your pedantry allowed you to omit Turkish from that list. The vast majority of posters disagree with you over this.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Well none of us really know the Liebherr's true plans for the club. If they really do have the resources to back the club to challenge at the top of the Premier League then yes, it should be developed asap. If that isn't the case, then no.

 

So far, the investment in the academy and training ground suggests that these aren't hollow ambitions and they really do have the resources to put their money where their mouth is.

 

Thanks, that's what I thought you were advocating. My summary is that building a 45K stadium right now is the height of foolishness; using evidence of being able to sustain average crowds of 30K is even more foolhardy.

 

If Cortese has the business brain we all think/hope he has, I can only pray he doesn't subscribe to your logic. I hope he will wait until we get to the premier League first. I then hope he will monitor season ticket sales and match ticket sales and make an informed decision on stadium enhancement from then.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
The training ground plans were resubmitted months after his death at three times the cost of the original plan.

 

Although it is entirely possible that this was agreed before the death of markus.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
Thanks, that's what I thought you were advocating. My summary is that building a 45K stadium right now is the height of foolishness; using evidence of being able to sustain average crowds of 30K is even more foolhardy.

 

If Cortese has the business brain we all think/hope he has, I can only pray he doesn't subscribe to your logic. I hope he will wait until we get to the premier League first. I then hope he will monitor season ticket sales and match ticket sales and make an informed decision on stadium enhancement from then.

 

You are forgetting Chelsea only used to get 10,000 in the 80's and get 40k+ now.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
I'm surprised your pedantry allowed you to omit Turkish from that list. The vast majority of posters disagree with you over this.

 

The majority of vocal posters in this thread disagree with me.

 

There is a difference!

 

In any case, the majority isn't always right. Not saying that I am 100% right either, before you start with that line of attack. ;)

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
The majority of vocal posters in this thread disagree with me.

 

There is a difference!

 

In any case, the majority isn't always right. Not saying that I am 100% right either, before you start with that line of attack. ;)

 

Ah so you have a silent majority. Gotcha. Even if you didn't have that, you are still right even if most disagreed with you.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Ah so you have a silent majority. Gotcha. Even if you didn't have that, you are still right even if most disagreed with you.

 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here?

 

No-one in this thread is speaking from a position of any real knowledge. I however have taken a stance towards the views of the professional businessman. He may well be wrong, along with some of his equivalents at other clubs but at least they have more evidence and sports business nous than any of us.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
You have no idea if they did, what markus' will said or anything like that.

 

Well...

 

- if they had the will to stop the development and didn't have the power = doesn't matter

- if they had the power to stop the development and didn't have the will to do so = doesn't matter

 

Either way it doesn't matter, as shown by the development going ahead as planned and Cortese saying "nothing has changed".

Edited by Matthew Le God
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
oh ffs, saints will not be lobbing an extra tier on SMS any time soon...I think we can safely say that

 

Then why is the chairman mentioning it as part of Markus' and his vision/plans for the club? He could quite easily say it won't happen in his tenure at Saints. Yet despite this, in BBC and fans dinner questioning he talks about stadium development and area around stadium development.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
christ....it matters not

it aint going to happen any time soon...

 

"It matter not"

 

Well yes, if they were just the words of a deluded fool on a messageboard spouting them.

 

But when they are the words of the chairman of the club who has a rich backer and we have already seen them match words with actions and investment into the club, they carry a lot more substance.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here?

 

No-one in this thread is speaking from a position of any real knowledge. I however have taken a stance towards the views of the professional businessman. He may well be wrong, along with some of his equivalents at other clubs but at least they have more evidence and sports business nous than any of us.

 

And at that moment, the community of the Internet stopped and held it's breath. It had happened. Mlg had finally become the most boring bellend in the history of the Internet.

Thedelldays

Thedelldays

Posted
Posted
"It matter not"

 

Well yes, if they were just the words of a deluded fool on a messageboard spouting them.

 

But when they are the words of the chairman of the club who has a rich backer and we have already seen them match words with actions and investment into the club, they carry a lot more substance.

 

ok, I will donate £100 to charity of YOUR choice should work start on SMS by december 2014...

 

fact

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Well...

 

- if they had the will to stop the development and didn't have the power = doesn't matter

- if they had the power to stop the development and didn't have the will to do so = doesn't matter

 

Either way it doesn't matter, as shown by the development going ahead as planned and Cortese saying "nothing has changed".

 

They had no power or will to stop the training ground development but that does not mean that is the case for future finance and developments.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Using your logic, how do you know that is not the case?

 

That isn't using my logic at all.

 

If they had the will to stop the training ground and not the power to do so it still would have happened (as it did). You however said it as a statement of fact that you knew they had no power or will to stop it. How do you know that?

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
"It matter not"

 

Well yes, if they were just the words of a deluded fool on a messageboard spouting them.

 

But when they are the words of the chairman of the club who has a rich backer and we have already seen them match words with actions and investment into the club, they carry a lot more substance.

 

Out of interest, can you provide a link to exactly what Cortese is supposed to have said on the matter of a 45K stadium?

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
Out of interest, can you provide a link to exactly what Cortese is supposed to have said on the matter of a 45K stadium?

 

A write up of one of the Cortese dinners (verified by a few people that were there)...

 

As some of you will have seen from my comments on the ‘Cortese Breaks silence’ thread, I was lucky enough to have dinner with Nicola this evening along with about 17 other season ticket holders who were randomly selected. This is the second time that Nicola has held one of these events (some of you may recall the first occasion was a few days after the sacking of Pardew).

Nicola said that he’s now going to do these sessions with season ticket holders each month so hopefully a lot more of you will also get to chat to him over time.

 

I’ve never been one to get excited about things, but since getting the invite to this I have genuinely been looking forward to this, mainly because I find Nicola quite intriguing and had an open mind about him.

 

I have to say, he seemed an absolute top bloke, a genuinely good guy and funny as well.

The conversations, questions and answers during the course of the evening covered pretty much everything that he spoke about in his interview with the BBC so there was a lot of overlap, but points I’d add (in no particular order) are as follows;

 

The interview he did today has been planned for a while and it’s timing in relation to recent speculation is purely coincidental. Had the interview not been planned, he wouldn’t have made any statement about the club not being for sale, he basically reiterated what he’s said before, that he is totally committed to the 5 year plan and we should treat no news from the club as good news.

 

The vision isn’t just about 5 years. There is no point in getting back to the premiership if we are just going to struggle when we are there. Once we are there we will compete to win the title, that’s the point of being there.

 

The team is being built as exactly that, a team, that will get us out of league one, but also out of the championship.

 

He wants to add players, but only if they fit that vision of being able to push on.

If we can get promoted this season, there should be no reason why we can’t push out for a top two spot in the championship next season providing we build the team properly via January window and in the summer.

 

January window is difficult as any players we would want would be likely to be involved in Promotion pushes, or fighting to stay in leagues for their current teams (my guess from that is we may not see too much happen in January, but summer will be more productive).

 

The start of our season was ruined by pre-season training, because the players were pushed too hard. Ricky for example was in great shape just before pre-season and he’d been training in his own time during the summer to ensure he was in good shape, but then the level of pre-season training un-did a lot of that work.

 

Pards basically wanted things done his way and didn’t listen to people telling him he was pushing the players too hard.

 

Markus was constantly amazed by the amount of people that would stop him and thank him for saving the club.

 

His family are still coming over to some games.

 

Markus favourite player was Papa, who was apparently a very funny chap and bit of a character.

 

They feel that we can get crowds of 45k on a regular basis once back in the prem.

 

The development of the stadium and surrounding area depends greatly on the development of the surrounding area as a whole. Obviously with the rail track next to the ground, a station there would be great, but British Rail aren’t going to build a station that’s only used once every two weeks. However if the area as a whole gets developed then it becomes more viable.

 

I’ll add some more bits as a think of them.

 

The BBC interview (from 36:50)...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...