Controversial

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Just a question, no hidden agenda.

 

Im only after peoples opinions on if it would work, what they perceive the advantages/disadvantages to be. Please do not spite me with comments because you do not deem it to be IYO intellectual, or worthy.

 

Should the UK bring into force a (free) licence in order to have kids, with a fine or imprisonment should this law be broken.

 

If so, what would/should the criteria to obtain a licence be?

 

I know a lot of it is paper spin, but when you see articles about people who have no job, live in state provided property, live entirely off of benefits and have umpteen children and still complain that they dont have enough room in their house, it hits a nerve. That lady who earnt £170k a year in benefits just because she had loads of kids, she knows full well that if she has more kids, here benefits will increase. This IMO is wrong.

 

As I said, Im not saying Im for the idea or against it, I just want peoples views on it.

[Ponty]

What's your view on it?

[saint_stevo]

F*king hell, i dont go online for a day or so and it gets all heavy

[simo]

No this is not China we are a "free" country!

[thesaint sfc]

Not if we want to keep the UK's reputation.

 

People have kids like rats now days so something needs to be done.

 

I think a licence is a bit extreme though.

[Ponty]

Seriously INS, you want limits on procreation, ID cards, restrictions on Human Rights and tagged mobile telephones. Why don't you just **** off to 1990's China and be done with it?

[tombletomble]

Just a question, no hidden agenda.

 

Im only after peoples opinions on if it would work, what they perceive the advantages/disadvantages to be. Please do not spite me with comments because you do not deem it to be IYO intellectual, or worthy.

 

Should the UK bring into force a (free) licence in order to have kids, with a fine or imprisonment should this law be broken.

 

If so, what would/should the criteria to obtain a licence be?

 

I know a lot of it is paper spin, but when you see articles about people who have no job, live in state provided property, live entirely off of benefits and have umpteen children and still complain that they dont have enough room in their house, it hits a nerve. That lady who earnt £170k a year in benefits just because she had loads of kids, she knows full well that if she has more kids, here benefits will increase. This IMO is wrong.

 

As I said, Im not saying Im for the idea or against it, I just want peoples views on it.

 

 

I really can't believe that you have even suggested this.

 

What kind of society do you want to live in?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

As I said, Im not saying Im for the idea or against it, I just want peoples views on it.

 

Seriously INS, you want limits on procreation, ID cards, restrictions on Human Rights and tagged mobile telephones. Why don't you just **** off to 1990's China and be done with it?

 

I really can't believe that you have even suggested this.

 

What kind of society do you want to live in?

 

Please read THE WHOLE THREAD before posting.

 

Ponty, Im surprised you of all people say this. As I have said, I am neither for, nor against it, just after peoples opinions of if it would work or not and what they perceive to be the benefits. This is afterall a forum to discuss things!

 

Again tombletomble, I have not suggested it. It is not in the pipeline as we speak after 'me suggesting it'. I have not suggested anything, merely asked for peoples opinions on what they think of a particular point.

[buctootim]

What are you going to do to the people who accidentally get pregnant without a licence? Forced abortions and sterilisation? What about those who keep the pregnancy a secret? Maybe the Stasi can come round and put the newborn to sleep.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Not if we want to keep the UK's reputation.

 

People have kids like rats now days so something needs to be done.

 

I think a licence is a bit extreme though.

 

How would you suggest then?

 

Im all for big families if they can be financially supported, I just dont know if its right to have more kids and expect others to pay for it?

[Ponty]

You must have some warmth to the idea or you'd never have raised it, along with all the other crap you have lately. No offence, but are you a mole for the Labour party?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

What are you going to do to the people who accidentally get pregnant without a licence? Forced abortions and sterilisation? What about those who keep the pregnancy a secret? Maybe the Stasi can come round and put the newborn to sleep.

 

Good point.

 

I am not suggesting this BTW, just curious.

 

However, I believe the thought of jail or a fine would be more of a deterrant and as such, there would be less 'mistakes' or accidents. It would also deter kids from becoming sexually active at a young age, although how this would be implemented I dont know due to not being able to imprison/fine someone under 18?!

 

Again, I must stress for the f*cktards out there who just love to dig people I am not suggesting this, merely asking the question.

[buctootim]

How would you suggest then?

 

Im all for big families if they can be financially supported, I just dont know if its right to have more kids and expect others to pay for it?

 

Its not right to have kids and expect other people to pay for it. Its also madness IMO for the NHS to pay for fertility treatment. If they cant afford that they cant afford kids. HOWEVER you dont throw out democracy and individual choice just to deal avoid some people abusing the system. Maybe the unemployed could be forcibly deported after six months without work.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

You must have some warmth to the idea or you'd never have raised it, along with all the other crap you have lately. No offence, but are you a mole for the Labour party?

 

You say crap, however it has stimulated a lot of debate.

 

This is a forum ponty so surely debate is a good thing?

 

I admit, I may have misworded the initial HR thread post, and possibly shot from the hip a bit, however just because your views dont agree with others views, it doesnt mean that the others opinions are 'crap' as you call them.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Its not right to have kids and expect other people to pay for it. Its also madness IMO for the NHS to pay for fertility treatment. If they cant afford that they cant afford kids. HOWEVER you dont throw out democracy and individual choice just to deal avoid some people abusing the system. Maybe the unemployed could be forcibly deported after six months without work.

 

Thats a different point.

 

I agree, you shouldnt penalise the majority for the 'minority which abuse the system' but do you think something should be done to close this 'loop hole'.

 

Maybe a system whereby if you are receiving benefits already for children and are not working, you should not be able to increase your benefits if you have more children?

[Weston Super Saint]

Not if we want to keep the UK's reputation.

 

People have kids like rats now days so something needs to be done.

 

I think a licence is a bit extreme though.

 

A bit harsh on the kids.

 

It's not their fault they have yellow eyes, pointy ears and sharp teeth.

[tombletomble]

Please read THE WHOLE THREAD before posting.

 

 

Again tombletomble, I have not suggested it. It is not in the pipeline as we speak after 'me suggesting it'. I have not suggested anything, merely asked for peoples opinions on what they think of a particular point.

 

 

I did read the whole thread before posting thanks.

 

As Ponty said, I don't believe that you would be raising this issues that you have the last few days unless you agreed in principle with some of the ideas.

 

We live in a free country and everyone should be automatically willing to defend that.

 

Are there any other basic freedoms that you wish to discuss potentially removing?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

A bit harsh on the kids.

 

It's not their fault they have yellow eyes, pointy ears and sharp teeth.

 

Its the portsmuff water IMO

[Julian H. Cope]

Please can we move this thread to The Lounge?.

I wish to make no sense and be abusive.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Are there any other basic freedoms that you wish to discuss potentially removing?

 

See its people like you who have fueled the fire about my threads.

 

You dont seem to understand that I do not wish to 'remove' people's basic rights.

 

My opinion is that I do not believe, if you take someone elses life on purpose, you should have rights of your own.

 

I do not believe in capital punishment, I think spending the rest of your life behind bars is far more punishing than taking the easy way out and being hung/injected/electricuted etc.

 

My personal view is that if by extending the detaining period by another 3 weeks it saves lives, then the inconvenience of an additional 3 weeks in jail is IMO worthwhile. People have said that there is stigma associated with being arrested on terror charges and being released, I would doubt that stigma is significantly reduced if you were released on day 21 rather than day 42.

 

And yes, I think it is absurd that people can freely breed till their hearts content and have it supported by the state and ergo the tax payer - me. Not bothering to get a job, knowing full well they will have a large house and benefits given to them from the state.

 

Call me a 'Daily Mail' reader or a 'left wing lunatic' for my opinions if you will, but afterall they are only opinions, it doesnt mean they are right or wrong. I do not lobby or protest for my thoughts/beliefs, mearly discuss them with people.

[Ponty]

You say crap, however it has stimulated a lot of debate.

 

This is a forum ponty so surely debate is a good thing?

 

I admit, I may have misworded the initial HR thread post, and possibly shot from the hip a bit, however just because your views dont agree with others views, it doesnt mean that the others opinions are 'crap' as you call them.

 

It seems to a lot with yours.

 

Why not start a thread... "Is joke ra pe ok?" Now I don't have an opinion either way but would like to hear other people's opinions. Is it ok to ra pe someone for a joke?

[Julian H. Cope]

It seems to a lot with yours.

 

Why not start a thread... "Is joke ra pe ok?" Now I don't have an opinion either way but would like to hear other people's opinions. Is it ok to ra pe someone for a joke?

 

The answer is yes.But only if you have a dickie bow that spins round.

[Junction 9]

A joke's a joke so yes.

[Wiltshire Saint]

I have series of burning questions that I wish to debate (and to which I hold no opinion about):

1. Is it wrong to bum young boys?

2. Should black people be tarred and feathered or lynched?

3. Should gay men be shot in the forehead by their mothers under close supervision by the Stasi?

4. Should all foreigners be forced to eat poo on arrival to this country

5. Should fat people be allowed to ride motorcyles

6. If a baby comes out ginger, should it be shoved back up there and told not to come out until it is normal

7. Would you rather your mum **** Mugabe or Peter Sutcliffe?

8. Is it ghey to use high powered shower jets up your asshole.

9. Should white and black people be kept separate by a big fence, with all the black people living to the west Cardiff and all the white people everywhere else?

10. Under what circumstances is it ok to look at child pornography?

11. Would you ever allow your teenage daughter to be the star of a snuff movie?

12. Are dogs more valubale to mankind than the Chinese?

13. Should old people be encouraged to save money by brushing their teeth with their own excrement rather than toothpaste?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

It seems to a lot with yours.

 

Why not start a thread... "Is joke ra pe ok?" Now I don't have an opinion either way but would like to hear other people's opinions. Is it ok to ra pe someone for a joke?

 

No offence but now your just being a tw*t.

 

If you cannot accept other peoples views then you need to question are you really a good innernet forum moderator/admin.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

I have series of burning questions that I wish to debate (and to which I hold no opinion about):

1. Is it wrong to bum young boys? Yes, although I dont think my opinion will stop you doing it

2. Should black people be tarred and feathered or lynched? neither, the colour of someone's skin makes no difference to the person they are. That is just racist

3. Should gay men be shot in the forehead by their mothers under close supervision by the Stasi? No, although if they were, then I fear I would be talking to myself now

4. Should all foreigners be forced to eat poo on arrival to this country No, but a basic grasp of the English language should be advised

5. Should fat people be allowed to ride motorcyles Providing they have passed a licence, yes

6. If a baby comes out ginger, should it be shoved back up there and told not to come out until it is normal I think your a tw*t, but this one made me lol. What about people with mousey coloured hair, or strawberry blonde? Depends how far you take jon-j?

7. Would you rather your mum **** Mugabe or Peter Sutcliffe? Mugabe - more airmiles

8. Is it ghey to use high powered shower jets up your asshole. Already been covered, I think the conclusion was yes

9. Should white and black people be kept separate by a big fence, with all the black people living to the west Cardiff and all the white people everywhere else? Again, rasict

10. Under what circumstances is it ok to look at child pornography? None, however refer to my explanation in point 1

11. Would you ever allow your teenage daughter to be the star of a snuff movie? Dont have a teenage daughter, so am not qualified to answer this question

12. Are dogs more valubale to mankind than the Chinese? Depends who you ask

13. Should old people be encouraged to save money by brushing their teeth with their own excrement rather than toothpaste? I fear this may not clean their teeth, however, it may make their breath smell better

 

I hope this clears up your p*ss take questions. If you do not wish to answer the initial question then why bother commenting on the thread?

[Ponty]

No offence but now your just being a tw*t.

 

If you cannot accept other peoples views then you need to question are you really a good innernet forum moderator/admin.

 

You've said time and time again that they're not necessarily your views so which is it? Are they yours and you are in fact a closet fascist but I'm not accepting of it, or are they not, in which case you have nothing to moan about?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

You've said time and time again that they're not necessarily your views so which is it? Are they yours and you are in fact a closet fascist but I'm not accepting of it, or are they not, in which case you have nothing to moan about?

 

The reason I have said they are not my views is because the thread would just end up like it has, a sl*g off INS thread. I wanted to ask everyone else their opinion as Im genuinely interested. And as I mentioned earlier, to find what suggestions people would have to combat the people who abuse the benefit system.

 

Call me a fascist if you will, and yes, I probably do have fascist views, however, I am not homophobic or rascist, I do not protest my views or lobby for laws to be changed to favour my views.

 

I just look at how much the UK has changed since I was a child and Im only 25. I wonder what the UK will be like when I have children.

 

Kids are stabbing each other with knives on a daily basis. Respect has gone and IMO if it continues it wont be long before soceity breeds nothing but Vicky Pollard's.

 

If I am called fascist for caring about the state of soceity my kids will grow up in then so be it.

 

Sitting back, being PC and keeping yourself to yourself will only IMO worsen things.

 

But hey, what do I know, Im only a fascist!

[Ponty]

Finally!

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Finally!

 

And the differnce is what?

 

You cant truly say that you are happy that your tax money is funding a benefit spunging conveyer belt of babies born into a family completely dependant on your tax contributions?

 

Does this not frustrate you? Or do you look at it in a fairy namby pamby way thinking 'Well I guess I can be proud Im financially supporting a child. That kind of makes me a bit like a parent!'

[Ponty]

Would I pay less tax if you exterminated all newborns? Would I b*llocks.

 

Also, I am a parent.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Would I pay less tax if you exterminated all newborns? Would I b*llocks.

 

Also, I am a parent.

 

That wasn't the question Ponty. And where have I said about exterminating newborns?

 

 

The question was does it frustrate you to see someone earning £170k p.a sat in a very large house squelching out sprogs? Knowing its funded by money you have earn't through working?

[saint boggy]

for all the people who posted on here having a pop at INS, let me twist his words slightly and maybe you will see a different perspective.

 

take a look at these articles

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article43731.ece

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-437684/Jobless-mother-500-week-benefits-ordered-work.html

 

now assume INS had posted those articles only (minus his original comments) and asked you all to discuss said articles.......

99.9% of you would've come back with posts such as "f**king sterilise the scrounging g1ts" , "i'm sick of my taxes paying for lazy b@stards to squeeze out kid after kid without doing so much as a day's work" blah, blah, blah...........

 

(FWIW, i don't think that people should need a licence to have children, but i think that a capping of benefits (say a max of 3 children) would be a good way of getting people to think twice before increasing the amount of children they produce)

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

for all the people who posted on here having a pop at INS, let me twist his words slightly and maybe you will see a different perspective.

 

take a look at these articles

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article43731.ece

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-437684/Jobless-mother-500-week-benefits-ordered-work.html

 

now assume INS had posted those articles only (minus his original comments) and asked you all to discuss said articles.......

99.9% of you would've come back with posts such as "f**king sterilise the scrounging g1ts" , "i'm sick of my taxes paying for lazy b@stards to squeeze out kid after kid without doing so much as a day's work" blah, blah, blah...........

 

(FWIW, i don't think that people should need a licence to have children, but i think that a capping of benefits (say a max of 3 children) would be a good way of getting people to think twice before increasing the amount of children they produce)

 

Thank you StB, going against the grain is always difficult and I apologise for any grief you may receive on my behalf by anyone.

 

You rightly state that most people would comment in exactly the same way, if not worse to what I have said. It just shirks me that certain people get all on their high horse because they dont agree with a certain poster, yet if another poster posts something, they react in a different way!

 

A capping of benefits would be a very good idea IMO and 3 is a good number. And thank you, you are actually one of the only ones who have taken this thread as it was meant. To see what opinions are out there and suggest ideas etc.

[Atticus Finch of Maycomb]

sterilise INS, if he hasn't been already.

 

as long as this is done, i dont care what else happens.

[Hatch]

The more kids that social scum you have , the further north they should be made to live.

 

2 kids = midlands

3 kids = Leeds, Manchester

4 kids = Cumbria , North East

5 or more = some commune on a remote scottish island.

 

That'll soon put a stop to it.

[Ponty]

I don't own a horse but I know an ass when I see one.

[saint boggy]

Thank you StB, going against the grain is always difficult and I apologise for any grief you may receive on my behalf by anyone.

 

You rightly state that most people would comment in exactly the same way, if not worse to what I have said. It just shirks me that certain people get all on their high horse because they dont agree with a certain poster, yet if another poster posts something, they react in a different way!

 

A capping of benefits would be a very good idea IMO and 3 is a good number. And thank you, you are actually one of the only ones who have taken this thread as it was meant. To see what opinions are out there and suggest ideas etc.

I'm a big girl INS , i can take the heat, don't worry!!!

 

some people on here are a little tetchy today,methinks!!!! :smt036

[Ponty]

TBH, it's not really this thread in isolation that winds me up but over the last few days INS has advocated a desire (however casually it's been implied) for ID cards, withdrawal of some basic Human rights, monitoring of mobile telephones and the use of CCTV everywhere. This is really just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. If he wants to live in an oppressive police state, where some human life has less worth than that of others, he should move to Nigeria.

[Weston Super Saint]

I'm a big girl INS , i can take the heat, don't worry!!!

 

some people on here are a little tetchy today,methinks!!!! :smt036

 

Rule 1?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

sterilise INS, if he hasn't been already.

 

as long as this is done, i dont care what else happens.

 

Tiggs if I wanted your imput, I would ask for it

[saint boggy]

Rule 1?

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

 

 

 

Swit Swoo!!!!

[saint boggy]

Swit Swoo!!!!

thanx, that's my BEST side, i assure you!!!

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

TBH, it's not really this thread in isolation that winds me up but over the last few days INS has advocated a desire (however casually it's been implied) for ID cards, withdrawal of some basic Human rights, monitoring of mobile telephones and the use of CCTV everywhere. This is really just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. If he wants to live in an oppressive police state, where some human life has less worth than that of others, he should move to Nigeria.

 

ID Cards: I did not start the thread, I said I do not see them as such a bad idea like certain people are making them out to be. I certainly see more pro's than con's. The only con I can see is people moaning about not having privacy. IMO if a safer country comes to the detriment of me carrying around a small credit card like identification then so be it (its hardly an CCTV strapped to your head is it?)

 

HR Rights: I again, would say spending an additional 3 weeks in prison if innocent, then being let go at the end is better than letting a guilty person go after 3 weeks. I am obviously not the only person in the UK to share this view otherwise the rule wouldnt of been put forward would it?

 

Monitoring of mobile phones: I said lightly that I would accept this if only used for terrorist activity. If it meant that I would receive a knock on my door for a discussing a mate coming over to smoke a bit of weed on the phone then I would be against it. And before you say 'Bend the rules to favour you', Me smoking a bit of weed is hardly making a difference to the safety of the UK.

 

CCTV: I did not say CCTV should be everywhere, so please make sure you are being factual when having a go at me. I said I believe CCTV to be a good thing. I do not want it in my home, or even on my street, but it helps in specifically town centres in if not detering driminal activity, catching the culprits.

 

And Im sorry Camels dont appreciate other peoples views, Im sure there is a name for that. Is it narrowminded?

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

 

 

 

She's purdy!

[Weston Super Saint]

She's purdy!

 

Hands off.

 

Julian already 'baggsed' her.

[Ponty]

ID Cards: I did not start the thread, I said I do not see them as such a bad idea like certain people are making them out to be. I certainly see more pro's than con's. The only con I can see is people moaning about not having privacy. IMO if a safer country comes to the detriment of me carrying around a small credit card like identification then so be it (its hardly an CCTV strapped to your head is it?)

 

HR Rights: I again, would say spending an additional 3 weeks in prison if innocent, then being let go at the end is better than letting a guilty person go after 3 weeks. I am obviously not the only person in the UK to share this view otherwise the rule wouldnt of been put forward would it?

 

Monitoring of mobile phones: I said lightly that I would accept this if only used for terrorist activity. If it meant that I would receive a knock on my door for a discussing a mate coming over to smoke a bit of weed on the phone then I would be against it. And before you say 'Bend the rules to favour you', Me smoking a bit of weed is hardly making a difference to the safety of the UK.

 

CCTV: I did not say CCTV should be everywhere, so please make sure you are being factual when having a go at me. I said I believe CCTV to be a good thing. I do not want it in my home, or even on my street, but it helps in specifically town centres in if not detering driminal activity, catching the culprits.

 

And Im sorry Camels dont appreciate other peoples views, Im sure there is a name for that. Is it narrowminded?

 

It's not narrowminded to regard other people's opinions as wrong, it's narrowminded not to consider them at all. Well, all things considered, I'm grateful that people who share your opinion appear to be in the minority... for now.

[saint boggy]

Hands off.

 

Julian already 'baggsed' her.

it's so nice to be e-wanted

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

It's not narrowminded to regard other people's opinions as wrong, it's narrowminded not to consider them at all. Well, all things considered, I'm grateful that people who share your opinion appear to be in the minority... for now.

 

God forbid that the UK be hit with a terror attack to the scale of 9/11 then.

 

May I ask you directly Ponty,

 

1) What do you personally have against ID cards?

2) (Very hypothetical but) Knowing for certain that Mr x was planning to commit an act of terror but the police couldnt find sufficient evidence to charge him after 3 weeks and he was released and went ahead with his plan killing thousands, would you be upset he was released early? Or twisted another way, if he were detained against the rules unofficially for 6 weeks and enough evidence was obtained to prove his plan, would you lobby for his release to support you belief knowing releasing him would cause innocent deaths?

3) Are you happy your hard earned cash is paying for benefits for someone to have more kids therefore increasing their benefits with no intention of ever getting a job to financially support their family.

 

BTW Q3 is one I asked ages ago, which you have still yet to answer.