Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Just had a letter from my daughters school informing us that due to industrial action being taken by some teachers the school will be closed on Thursday. I wonder if the cost of sending out 1000 letters will be deducted from their wages. If they don't want to contribute more to their pensions perhaps they should have NHS care withdrawn past a certain age. So what's your REAL problem here? I doubt it's the loss in your child's education for a day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 So what's your REAL problem here? I doubt it's the loss in your child's education for a day... Probably not, but so what? The strike means it fu cking up the working days and weeks of everybody elses time to cover for childcare. This is actually how wealth is created and taxes are paid. And the striking teachers aren't striking on an education based issue either, just for the right to cream off a bit of extra bunce the rest of the country's work force won't have a chance of getting. So what's your moral high ground point here? Typical public sector attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted 25 June, 2011 Share Posted 25 June, 2011 Childcare for nothing! take a days annual leave from your job and look after your own kids. Teachers are not there to provide childcare at no cost to you, but to educate your kids. Think about all those people who don't have kids, why should they suffer with people who choose to have kids and expect maternity and paternity leave. Public sector worker or not, all people who work have to cover when those who have kids, their choice, have their time off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Maybe they should come up with some lame strike that wouldnt impact on anyone at all, that would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Probably not, but so what? The strike means it fu cking up the working days and weeks of everybody elses time to cover for childcare. This is actually how wealth is created and taxes are paid. And the striking teachers aren't striking on an education based issue either, just for the right to cream off a bit of extra bunce the rest of the country's work force won't have a chance of getting. So what's your moral high ground point here? Typical public sector attitude. You are absolutely ****ing clueless. You (meaning all reactionary fools) really are. I despair of the human race sometimes. Excellent piece in today's Observer by David Mitchell: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/26/universities-private-public-david-mitchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 So what's your REAL problem here? I doubt it's the loss in your child's education for a day... guess giving up a days education is ok then....will the schools remember that when parents keep their kids from schools for days off/holidays etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 (edited) Whether the strike is necessary or not (i'm firmly in the necessary camp), at least it shows the Tories that teachers won't roll over and accept every single daft proposal that they have for the education system and teachers as a whole. You can bet your bottom dollar that if they weren't striking, Gove would have his calculator and flip chart out wondering what else he could f*ck up without any real opposition. Edited 26 June, 2011 by LGTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 And the striking teachers aren't striking on an education based issue either, just for the right to cream off a bit of extra bunce the rest of the country's work force won't have a chance of getting. So what's your moral high ground point here? Nail on head. It is purely self interest, no moral crusade over education or the future of the country. That's what we have in the country nowadays. Marches by students against the same students having to pay for some of their education. Marches from public sector workers over THEIR pensions. Nobody in the public sector gave a shiny shiete about the cleaner or the B&Q checkout girl when her final salary pension was changed to a defined contribution one (even if she does only earn £8,000 ish a year). Marching to stop a war, striking to protect people's jobs, I can just about handle, but action for selfish reason, when we've all been through the same or similar, forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I think many people in the private sector would also strike to protect their rights but, sadly, they don't or can't join a union. Strength in numbers and all that. I believe Virgin Airways pilots are balloting on strike action - but then, no doubt, they belong to BALPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I think many people in the private sector would also strike to protect their rights but, sadly, they don't or can't join a union. Strength in numbers and all that. . Our final salary scheme was closed for new members and existing members had to increase their contributions by 20%. Rather than strike, my thoughts were that I dodged a bullet, and was grateful that I still had a pretty decent pension provision, despite Mr Brown's best efforts.The public sector need to wake up and smell the coffee, ok, it's not what they signed up for and it's not particulary fair, but it's a damn sight better than it could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Nail on head. It is purely self interest, no moral crusade over education or the future of the country. That's what we have in the country nowadays. Marches by students against the same students having to pay for some of their education. Marches from public sector workers over THEIR pensions. Nobody in the public sector gave a shiny shiete about the cleaner or the B&Q checkout girl when her final salary pension was changed to a defined contribution one (even if she does only earn £8,000 ish a year). Marching to stop a war, striking to protect people's jobs, I can just about handle, but action for selfish reason, when we've all been through the same or similar, forget it. Another reactionary fool. The reason teachers are striking is because the government (despite their protestations) have not sat down to show the unions exactly how and why the current pension agreements are unsustainable. Every teacher I know understands that the country is in a difficult financial state. Every teacher I know understands that changes to the current pension agreement is probably necessary. Teachers understand that cuts need to be made. What teachers do not understand is why the government is still refusing to share its facts and figures that backup their proposed changes. That is why they are striking. The more cynical might think that the Tories can't believe their luck that they inherited such an economic shambles from Labour and are using it as an excuse to wage an ideological war on the public sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 The more cynical might think that the Tories can't believe their luck that they inherited such an economic shambles from Labour and are using it as an excuse to wage an ideological war on the public sector. seeing as labour and the tories appear to be one of the same.....then it matter not who is making these cuts, they were going to happen anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Our final salary scheme was closed for new members and existing members had to increase their contributions by 20%. Rather than strike, my thoughts were that I dodged a bullet, and was grateful that I still had a pretty decent pension provision, despite Mr Brown's best efforts.The public sector need to wake up and smell the coffee, ok, it's not what they signed up for and it's not particulary fair, but it's a damn sight better than it could have been. For someone who further up the page suggests the strikes are all wrong for "selfish reasons" your comment that you didn't strike because you were alright sounds pretty selfish in itself surely? Have a look at the scale of losses ALL teachers will take - especially those who start out on their careers as of September and explain to me why we should just take a shafting if through striking we can at least create a dialogue regarding the proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 For someone who further up the page suggests the strikes are all wrong for "selfish reasons" your comment that you didn't strike because you were alright sounds pretty selfish in itself surely? Have a look at the scale of losses ALL teachers will take - especially those who start out on their careers as of September and explain to me why we should just take a shafting if through striking we can at least create a dialogue regarding the proposed changes. I think there was a dialogue going on and then, out of the blue, Douglas Alexander announced the changes as a done deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Education Secretary Michael Gove has warned teachers against taking part in Thursday's strikes - saying they risk losing respect for their profession http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13918723 He is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I'm not joining the profession to be liked. No opinion matters to me until they have spent a day in a classroom. That rules Gove out then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I think there was a dialogue going on and then, out of the blue, Douglas Alexander announced the changes as a done deed. Both are career politicians and jock t wats but i guess you meant danny alexander... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Both are career politicians and jock t wats but i guess you meant danny alexander... I picture BTF as Harriet Harman so I expect she meant the ginger rodent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Both are career politicians and jock t wats but i guess you meant danny alexander... You understand my confusion Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I think many people in the private sector would also strike to protect their rights but, sadly, they don't or can't join a union. Strength in numbers and all that. I believe Virgin Airways pilots are balloting on strike action - but then, no doubt, they belong to BALPA. Mrs BTF you are correct...no one gave much of a toss at Vodafone when the final salary scheme was closed. I hear the argument time and time again about the private sector having got rid of the final salary scheme. Lets look at Vodafone and their moral case for closing their scheme. They made £9.5 billion last year and around £8.5 billion the year before.... that's a total of 18000 million and all that was required to keep those staff who had cumulatively made a substantial part of that profit was £100 million which would have left 17900 million and a very healthy pension fund no longer in need of a cash injection. Don't get me started on Vodafone and tax.....after 12 years at Vodafone I got a lot more money ( I am over 50 so I took the money) than the examples you quoted of NHS staff. Some people are narrow, bitter, given to jealously and these are the ones who begrudge anyone anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 at the end of the day...all this mess was going to happen no matter who got in.. labour were going to cut at least £7 out of every £8 this lot are......(apparently, alledgedly, maybe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 at the end of the day...all this mess was going to happen no matter who got in.. labour were going to cut at least £7 out of every £8 this lot are......(apparently, alledgedly, maybe) Would you really want to cut the less than £4000 a year that a long server NHS worker would end up receiving or the £9000 a teacher gets on average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Would you really want to cut the less than £4000 a year that a long server NHS worker would end up receiving or the £9000 a teacher gets on average? obvioulsly not.....but lets not pretend there are/were real alternatives last may Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 obvioulsly not.....but lets not pretend there are/were real alternatives last may There ARE loads of real alternatives. 20/20 talked about Vodaphone - get them to pay their due taxes for a start. Get rid of the bankers' bonuses. The public sector workers didn't get us into this mess - why should they (and you and me) pay for the mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cool Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I'm striking on Thursday. Private sector workers losing their pensions was wrong, this doesn't make it right that the public sector workers shoud also be screwed. It is legitimate for an employer to change the pension arrangements for new recruits, and in the civil service this happened not long ago with the agreement of the unions. The PCS has a duty to stand up and fight against the tearing up of its members' contracts. Ironically, because the civil service pension scheme operates on a "pay as you go" basis, the pay freeze starves it of funds making matters worse. Low-paid workers opting out due to hardship is another problem, minor for the civil service scheme but possibly devastating for the local government fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 ^^^ this The Local Government scheme is actually in credit and was even more in credit until the government took something like £5million out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I'm striking on Thursday. I hope it rains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I'm striking on Thursday. Private sector workers losing their pensions was wrong, this doesn't make it right that the public sector workers shoud also be screwed. It is legitimate for an employer to change the pension arrangements for new recruits, and in the civil service this happened not long ago with the agreement of the unions. The PCS has a duty to stand up and fight against the tearing up of its members' contracts. Ironically, because the civil service pension scheme operates on a "pay as you go" basis, the pay freeze starves it of funds making matters worse. Low-paid workers opting out due to hardship is another problem, minor for the civil service scheme but possibly devastating for the local government fund. Good for you mate. Its about time the workers stood up for their rights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Mrs BTF you are correct...no one gave much of a toss at Vodafone when the final salary scheme was closed. I hear the argument time and time again about the private sector having got rid of the final salary scheme. Lets look at Vodafone and their moral case for closing their scheme. They made £9.5 billion last year and around £8.5 billion the year before.... that's a total of 18000 million and all that was required to keep those staff who had cumulatively made a substantial part of that profit was £100 million which would have left 17900 million and a very healthy pension fund no longer in need of a cash injection. Don't get me started on Vodafone and tax.....after 12 years at Vodafone I got a lot more money ( I am over 50 so I took the money) than the examples you quoted of NHS staff. Some people are narrow, bitter, given to jealously and these are the ones who begrudge anyone anything. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 It's already been established in this thread that the Private Sector is just as bad as the Public Sector for waste and all these other buzz words the Tories love to pigeon hole us in to. That chip continues to get bigger though and I for one quite enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Good for you mate. Its about time the workers stood up for their rights! And it's about time the government stood firm. The electorate are behind the government and against the unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 There ARE loads of real alternatives. 20/20 talked about Vodaphone - get them to pay their due taxes for a start. Get rid of the bankers' bonuses. The public sector workers didn't get us into this mess - why should they (and you and me) pay for the mess? But what would you do about the fundamental problem of funding pensions for people with an ever increasing life expectancy? The extra money has to come from somewhere. Your taking a hit now but much of the private sector pensions have been taking a hit for years. It looks far worse for the public sector now because it should have been dealt with years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 And it's about time the government stood firm. The electorate are behind the government and against the unions. Our local Oxfordshire paper ran a poll last week (nice, middle class area). The vote was overwhelmingly in support of the teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 (edited) Our local Oxfordshire paper ran a poll last week (nice, middle class area). The vote was overwhelmingly in support of the teachers. Is that like a daily echo poll? Any support there might be will wain once hard working people have to take time off work to look after their children while the millitant teachers enjoy even more time off. Edited 26 June, 2011 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 But what would you do about the fundamental problem of funding pensions for people with an ever increasing life expectancy? The extra money has to come from somewhere. Your taking a hit now but much of the private sector pensions have been taking a hit for years. It looks far worse for the public sector now because it should have been dealt with years ago. Well, in the post of mine that you quoted, I gave an example of just one multi-national company not paying it's due taxes. There are loads more - Top Shop, Barclays, Tescos to name but a few. But the public sector had already accepted in principle the idea of larger contributions / final salary schemes being scrapped for average salary schemes. The teachers were in constructive negotiation with the government about how best to achieve savings - until the Chief Secretary to the Treasury put his big yellow foot in it by saying it was a 'done deed'. Any wonder the teachers' unions were angry? That's not how to negotiate and shows just how naive this coalition is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Is that like a daily echo poll? Any support there might be will wain once hard working people have to take time off work to look after their children while the millitant teachers enjoy even more time off. Your backside must be sore with all the drivel coming out of it. I don't know if the poll was like the Daily Echo one - I don't get the Echo up here. Please let my son-in-law know how to achieve all this time off you talk about because he's looking quite grey at the moment with the stress and long hours he puts in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 And it's about time the government stood firm. The electorate are behind the government and against the unions. Where do you get that statement from Dune? The government have clearly got it wrong,because we are seeing more and more strikes from people who are totally demoralised by this Condem shambles. All we see from this government is cuts after cuts,affecting everyones lifes,apart from the super rich of course. Things are only going to get worse while this bunch of clowns stay in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Out of interest is it a closed shop in teaching or the NHS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 I am a civil servant but I won't be striking on Thursday. Not because I don't agree with the sentiment but I don't agree with strikes. I also think it is not unreasonable to change the pension structure for new starters given the state of the economy. But to change it now for people who have been working (mostly on below average wages) for the public secor for years is just plan wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Tories are gonna get so hammered next election. Dune are you looking forward to PM Ed Milliband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Probably not, but so what? The strike means it fu cking up the working days and weeks of everybody elses time to cover for childcare. This is actually how wealth is created and taxes are paid. And the striking teachers aren't striking on an education based issue either, just for the right to cream off a bit of extra bunce the rest of the country's work force won't have a chance of getting. So what's your moral high ground point here? Typical public sector attitude. I would post something constructive but to be honest I just hope you booked the child minder early enough: they must be able to charge the earth! The only opinion that matters to me is that of the child in the classroom, not small minded morons, so I'm sure I'll sleep sound Wednesday night knowing they got a first class education that day and will do on Friday and for the rest of my career. Public sector attitude? If it wasn't for us, you would all be properly f.ucked! There is your f.ucking attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Out of interest is it a closed shop in teaching or the NHS? What on earth do you mean by that? Union membership is not compulsory these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 How do you mean a closed shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Tories are gonna get so hammered next election. Dune are you looking forward to PM Ed Milliband? The Conservatives will win. The reduction in the size of parliament will, i expect, make it a more level playing field too. Currently Labour get disportionately more seats to votes - this I think may change... Also the Conservatives should be in a position to offer a few tax cuts in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 How do you mean a closed shop? a closed shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 What on earth do you mean by that? Union membership is not compulsory these days. OK, was just a query as a friend of mines wife works for the NHS and said it was. He must've been wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 He doesn't know what he means. He gets confused. Please don't make it more difficult by asking him to clarify his point. If you have anything that you need to know, please PM me. I'm his care worker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 a closed shop. Cracking, you didn't get that HND for nothing did you! If you're referring to the Unions, then no, of course it isn't. Teachers are free not to join if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Couldn't have put it better myself: 'You've been told there's no money by a government that has plenty of money to drop bombs on other countries just to keep the armed forces happy; is quite happy to forgo millions in tax to keep the rich happy; is delighted to allow corporations and banks to waste millions in bonuses for individuals rather than paying the money back into the society to whom they owe it. There is no good reason not to fund schools and universities properly. The government has chosen not to - one can only imagine because they'd rather reserve education for wealthy elites. This is a disastrous choice from every perspective. Don't endorse it by suggesting that it was neccessary. It wasn't. These open threats by Tory MPs to break the unions are a disgrace. Not only do they expect the people of the country to tug their forelocks and say: 'yes, cut my pension, m'lud, I don't deserve it anyway', but they want to make it illegal to have a different opinion from the government about our own working conditions and to express that opinion in the only way that has even the slightest chance of being heard: through strikes. We wouldn't have to strike if a world-class education system wasn't being ****ed up by a bunch of wealthy tossers who are equally without brains and consciences.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 26 June, 2011 Share Posted 26 June, 2011 Cracking, you didn't get that HND for nothing did you! If you're referring to the Unions, then no, of course it isn't. Teachers are free not to join if they wish. Please leave him alone. He worked hard for that HND. I'd like to see you get an HND with the kind of learning difficulties that he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now