Hedgehog Posted 30 June, 2011 Share Posted 30 June, 2011 I think people are reacting at the moment to the fact that teachers are on strike. Just wait until the health service is balloted. Everyone keeps going on about gold plated pensions, the Mail and the Sun are totally biased towards the conservatives arguement. Well let the government make it not worthwhile taking jobs in education and health, for which many go to university and obtain degrees etc. They will then go for the so called poorly paying private sector jobs, there will be no more nurses, doctors,teachers, then who will be doing those jobs? Also why have the government not been thinking of applying these changes to the police,armed forces and fire service, surely if we are all supposed to be in it together why not them? Whilst i agree that front line soldiers should not contribute to their pension, what about those generals, admirals etc. sat in whitehall get away scott free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 June, 2011 Share Posted 30 June, 2011 (edited) Why would a maths graduate accept 21k in teaching when they could command 35k elsewhere?!? Teaching may be a vocation, but 14k would do a lot of talking. Did some work on this for the gov and methodologically its an extremely difficult question to disentangle - at least to produce anything rigorous. However, there are a few academic/policy papers that lend support to this argument. My favourite is a piece -published in the context of NHS and nurses pay- which found that higher outside wages in the local labour market made it difficult to retain and recruit experienced permanent staff resulting in greater deaths per year amongst patients who had been admitted to hospital following a heart attack. A 10% increase in the outside wage is associated with a 4% to 8% increase in hospital deaths from heart attacks. Whatever you say about ethos and motviation, public sector workers DO respond to monetary incentives and low pay can literally kill. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The paper explicitly criticised national pay bargaining which means public sector workers get paid the same irrespective of where they are located in the country (notwithstanding a modest London allowance) such that if you are oop north the public sector is a honeypot (since outside wages/living costs are very low) while if you are in the south east (where private sector pay for comparable skills is higher), you fare poorly in it - hence difficulties recruiting good workers into public sector which ultimately harms the users of the services these workers deliver. Edited 1 July, 2011 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 30 June, 2011 Share Posted 30 June, 2011 Well looking at this thread, which basically is a tale of woes from public and private sectors, if it tells us anything, it's that free market capitalism doesn't work. I think we're all agreed on that.Everyones been screwed and no-ones happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 30 June, 2011 Share Posted 30 June, 2011 Well looking at this thread, which basically is a tale of woes from public and private sectors, if it tells us anything, it's that free market capitalism doesn't work. I think we're all agreed on that.Everyones been screwed and no-ones happy. Quite comrade. When do we begin the revolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 30 June, 2011 Share Posted 30 June, 2011 Quite comrade. When do we begin the revolution? NOW!!! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Also, people saying that reducing pensions for teachers will restrict the numbers of teachers in the future. Surely teachers become teachers because they want to teach, not because if the cracking pension they get. As noble as many teachers are in their dedication to educating and supporting youngsters, it is very often the longer holidays and promise of a good pension that ensures they come in and stay in the profession. Being honourable and noble s sadly not enough to get by in the modern world. I personally turned my back on a salary over double what I am now earning to try and put something back in to our society (and particularly the local community) and the decent pension was one part of making that decision. I was happy to forego the money now and be rewarded by an honourable profession in my working years and a decent pension when I retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 As noble as many teachers are in their dedication to educating and supporting youngsters, it is very often the longer holidays and promise of a good pension that ensures they come in and stay in the profession. Being honourable and noble s sadly not enough to get by in the modern world. I personally turned my back on a salary over double what I am now earning to try and put something back in to our society (and particularly the local community) and the decent pension was one part of making that decision. I was happy to forego the money now and be rewarded by an honourable profession in my working years and a decent pension when I retired. It is hard to say anything negative to such noble jestures, but the private pensions were raped by the previous government and all the people who also had staked their life's work in those also were hurt. They didn't /couldnt try and bring the country to a halt but got on with it. I do understand your frustration, but the nation as a whole is hurting and having to take some pain. The bankers have cost me personally a 6 figure sum, do you think Iam happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 When I see teachers, fire fighters, council workers ... etc showing any signs of concern for the plight of many private sector employees who not only pay their wages but also earn a mere fraction of what they do and have nothing more than the pitiful state pension to look forward to then I'll spare them a thought - as if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 It is hard to say anything negative to such noble jestures, but the private pensions were raped by the previous government and all the people who also had staked their life's work in those also were hurt. They didn't /couldnt try and bring the country to a halt but got on with it. I do understand your frustration, but the nation as a whole is hurting and having to take some pain. The bankers have cost me personally a 6 figure sum, do you think Iam happy? As well as previous Governments' actions (and there is a debate about the pros and cons of their actions) I can also remember when a great many companies took pension holidays!!!!! The generous pension(and I have no problem in admitting it is/was generous) was a part of the whole remuneration package upon which I based my decision. As well as affecting me personally, I do have real concerns that the downgrading of this package will impact on the quality of the teaching profession (retention, recruitment & morale). I have utmost sympathy for those who have "suffered" in the private sector (been made redundant twice, had a pension holiday enforced on me, had T&c's amended), but I don't feel comfortable with a race to the bottom. If anything I would have thought that having experienced such unfairness and inequity, then others might have been somewhat more understanding. I certainly don't buy in to the blind mantra of "I've suffered, so you must suffer too" as I find that so short sighted, knee jerk and selfish. But I am more than happy to have a sensible discussion about the value we place on the teaching, how these changes might impact on that, the role we all have to play in getting ourselves out of the current financial problem and what choices we have. As Francis Maude's ignorance yesterday highlighted, I fear this is more about ideaologies than it is about affordability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 As well as previous Governments' actions (and there is a debate about the pros and cons of their actions) I can also remember when a great many companies took pension holidays!!!!! The generous pension(and I have no problem in admitting it is/was generous) was a part of the whole remuneration package upon which I based my decision. As well as affecting me personally, I do have real concerns that the downgrading of this package will impact on the quality of the teaching profession (retention, recruitment & morale). I have utmost sympathy for those who have "suffered" in the private sector (been made redundant twice, had a pension holiday enforced on me, had T&c's amended), but I don't feel comfortable with a race to the bottom. If anything I would have thought that having experienced such unfairness and inequity, then others might have been somewhat more understanding. I certainly don't buy in to the blind mantra of "I've suffered, so you must suffer too" as I find that so short sighted, knee jerk and selfish. But I am more than happy to have a sensible discussion about the value we place on the teaching, how these changes might impact on that, the role we all have to play in getting ourselves out of the current financial problem and what choices we have. As Francis Maude's ignorance yesterday highlighted, I fear this is more about ideaologies than it is about affordability. Exactly. This thread is full of communist ideologies from the people you'd least expect it from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 When I see teachers, fire fighters, council workers ... etc showing any signs of concern for the plight of many private sector employees who not only pay their wages but also earn a mere fraction of what they do and have nothing more than the pitiful state pension to look forward to then I'll spare them a thought - as if. Ok, then who educates your children, empties your bins, and would risk their life running into a burning building to save the lives of yourself and your family? These people do a decent job for a salary lower than the private sector. They deserve a decent pension. If you work in the private sector and are too stupid to plan for the future then that's your look out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 As well as previous Governments' actions (and there is a debate about the pros and cons of their actions) I can also remember when a great many companies took pension holidays!!!!! The generous pension(and I have no problem in admitting it is/was generous) was a part of the whole remuneration package upon which I based my decision. As well as affecting me personally, I do have real concerns that the downgrading of this package will impact on the quality of the teaching profession (retention, recruitment & morale). I have utmost sympathy for those who have "suffered" in the private sector (been made redundant twice, had a pension holiday enforced on me, had T&c's amended), but I don't feel comfortable with a race to the bottom. If anything I would have thought that having experienced such unfairness and inequity, then others might have been somewhat more understanding. I certainly don't buy in to the blind mantra of "I've suffered, so you must suffer too" as I find that so short sighted, knee jerk and selfish. But I am more than happy to have a sensible discussion about the value we place on the teaching, how these changes might impact on that, the role we all have to play in getting ourselves out of the current financial problem and what choices we have. As Francis Maude's ignorance yesterday highlighted, I fear this is more about ideaologies than it is about affordability. I dont bang on about the costs to me, but just wished to point out that we all are making sacrifices and so get on with it. You took a noble choice,I respect that but your decision was with the thought of a lovely pension in your later years, others are trying to make the funds now to provide for themselves in later life. Neither at present are fireproof choices. My spelling and grammar would not be enough up to scratch to retrain as a teacher, and frankly now too old to get on the public sector pension route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 When I see teachers, fire fighters, council workers ... etc showing any signs of concern for the plight of many private sector employees who not only pay their wages but also earn a mere fraction of what they do and have nothing more than the pitiful state pension to look forward to then I'll spare them a thought - as if.well if we privatise teachers , docters you would not be able afford to send your kids to the junior schools or senior school or get decent treatment unless you earned big money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Ok, then who educates your children, empties your bins, and would risk their life running into a burning building to save the lives of yourself and your family? These people do a decent job for a salary lower than the private sector. They deserve a decent pension. If you work in the private sector and are too stupid to plan for the future then that's your look out. health and safety public servants would not let anyone run into a burning building. As for your last sentence that is quite the same argument that the Gov is saying to the public sector. You can have your pension but have to pay a proper contribution to do so. Not expect the taxpayer to subsidise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I dont bang on about the costs to me, but just wished to point out that we all are making sacrifices and so get on with it. You took a noble choice,I respect that but your decision was with the thought of a lovely pension in your later years, others are trying to make the funds now to provide for themselves in later life. Neither at present are fireproof choices. My spelling and grammar would not be enough up to scratch to retrain as a teacher, and frankly now too old to get on the public sector pension route. And you probably wouldn't have considered the public sector route years ago when everything was rosy in the private sector. The difference is that others did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 well if we privatise teachers , docters you would not be able afford to send your kids to the junior schools or senior school or get decent treatment unless you earned big money.. I think you will find a large proportion of the high earners already do. In a strange way they pay twice, as they use private schools and hospitals and then pay a high percentage of their earnings in tax to contribute to the public heath service and schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 health and safety public servants would not let anyone run into a burning building. As for your last sentence that is quite the same argument that the Gov is saying to the public sector. You can have your pension but have to pay a proper contribution to do so. Not expect the taxpayer to subsidise it. You ignorant pigf*ck. It wasn't long ago that 2 Southampton firefighters lost their lives in a burning flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Ok, then who educates your children, empties your bins, and would risk their life running into a burning building to save the lives of yourself and your family? Nobody, it would seem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Nobody, it would seem... What a cheap shot. They've been asked to take a 5%pay cut on top of a 2 year pay freeze, and contribute 3% more of their salary to their pension. I don't blame them for not wanting to do the job for f*ck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 As well as previous Governments' actions (and there is a debate about the pros and cons of their actions) I can also remember when a great many companies took pension holidays!!!!! The generous pension(and I have no problem in admitting it is/was generous) was a part of the whole remuneration package upon which I based my decision. As well as affecting me personally, I do have real concerns that the downgrading of this package will impact on the quality of the teaching profession (retention, recruitment & morale). I have utmost sympathy for those who have "suffered" in the private sector (been made redundant twice, had a pension holiday enforced on me, had T&c's amended), but I don't feel comfortable with a race to the bottom. If anything I would have thought that having experienced such unfairness and inequity, then others might have been somewhat more understanding. I certainly don't buy in to the blind mantra of "I've suffered, so you must suffer too" as I find that so short sighted, knee jerk and selfish. But I am more than happy to have a sensible discussion about the value we place on the teaching, how these changes might impact on that, the role we all have to play in getting ourselves out of the current financial problem and what choices we have. As Francis Maude's ignorance yesterday highlighted, I fear this is more about ideaologies than it is about affordability. good post i despair also on how many are happy with the race to the bottom for wages and that 1930s ideas back in fashion next they will want will want us to bid for our own jobs,makes me laugh how we are told we cannot afford it but we can still spend billions on the defence industries etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 They deserve a decent pension. Absolutely, but even with the cuts they will still be getting one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 And you probably wouldn't have considered the public sector route years ago when everything was rosy in the private sector. The difference is that others did. No Im not cut out for that route. I have been happy to make my own way in life. It has its plusses and minuses. I believe in fairness and what I see from where I sit is that the Public Sector has to take its part of the pain. I have always wished for the higher end of the public sector to take the major strain, and the working staff ie bin men and the lower paid staff to be unaffected by all this. I listen in bemusement how people take early retirement or redundancy and then brag that the council then reemploy them at higher rates as consultants. I applauded the Gov when they raised the tax threshold for the very low paid, that is how it should be. Those people deserve the pension as they will be less able to save for later life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 You ignorant pigf*ck. It wasn't long ago that 2 Southampton firefighters lost their lives in a burning flat. good post and hope the oldnick reflects on his silly comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 You ignorant pigf*ck. It wasn't long ago that 2 Southampton firefighters lost their lives in a burning flat. Steady Wade, you think I don't know that, I haven't seen the report on that incident but there is no way they should have been expected to go in if there was a chance of them being harmed. Something went seriously wrong that night and I don't believe they went recklessly in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 (edited) Steady Wade, you think I don't know that, I haven't seen the report on that incident but there is no way they should have been expected to go in if there was a chance of them being harmed. Something went seriously wrong that night and I don't believe they went recklessly in. They went in there and risked their lives to save others, just like any of them would do on any given day. You just insult them. Edited 1 July, 2011 by Wade Garrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I think you will find a large proportion of the high earners already do. In a strange way they pay twice, as they use private schools and hospitals and then pay a high percentage of their earnings in tax to contribute to the public heath service and schools. i agree nick but i was talking about the average person it would be unaffordable to them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 No Im not cut out for that route. I have been happy to make my own way in life. It has its plusses and minuses. I believe in fairness and what I see from where I sit is that the Public Sector has to take its part of the pain. I have always wished for the higher end of the public sector to take the major strain, and the working staff ie bin men and the lower paid staff to be unaffected by all this. I listen in bemusement how people take early retirement or redundancy and then brag that the council then reemploy them at higher rates as consultants. I applauded the Gov when they raised the tax threshold for the very low paid, that is how it should be. Those people deserve the pension as they will be less able to save for later life. i agree and would like to see the pen pushers reduced in the public sector and the productive sector treated better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 No Im not cut out for that route. I have been happy to make my own way in life. It has its plusses and minuses. I believe in fairness and what I see from where I sit is that the Public Sector has to take its part of the pain. I have always wished for the higher end of the public sector to take the major strain, and the working staff ie bin men and the lower paid staff to be unaffected by all this. I listen in bemusement how people take early retirement or redundancy and then brag that the council then reemploy them at higher rates as consultants. I applauded the Gov when they raised the tax threshold for the very low paid, that is how it should be. Those people deserve the pension as they will be less able to save for later life. I find it quite hard to disagree with that. Management salaries in the public sector are extortionate. I would include teachers though as 'working staff'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I find it quite hard to disagree with that. Management salaries in the public sector are extortionate. I would include teachers though as 'working staff'. I agree a teacher could be counted as low to average paid, but as they go up the scale they soon get to a decent wage. if they make deputy head etc i think the payscales then do get pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 What a cheap shot. They've been asked to take a 5%pay cut on top of a 2 year pay freeze, and contribute 3% more of their salary to their pension. I don't blame them for not wanting to do the job for f*ck all. Diddums. http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2011/01/12/birmingham-binmen-earn-up-to-45-000-a-year-with-overtime-deals-65233-27970469/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Diddums. http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2011/01/12/birmingham-binmen-earn-up-to-45-000-a-year-with-overtime-deals-65233-27970469/ Amazing, but why are we surprised, afterall the councils dont have to earn money they just up parking charges or council tax. Not that I blame the binmen, it is the management who agree to these terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Diddums. http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2011/01/12/birmingham-binmen-earn-up-to-45-000-a-year-with-overtime-deals-65233-27970469/ Jesus!? Bin-men earn £32k on average!? I would be better off doing that for a living!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Ok, then who educates your children, empties your bins, and would risk their life running into a burning building to save the lives of yourself and your family? These people do a decent job for a salary lower than the private sector. They deserve a decent pension. If you work in the private sector and are too stupid to plan for the future then that's your look out. That ceased to be the case a long, long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Amazing, but why are we surprised, afterall the councils dont have to earn money they just up parking charges or council tax. Not that I blame the binmen, it is the management who agree to these terms. A third of Council Tax goes to pay their pensions (at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Amazing, but why are we surprised, afterall the councils dont have to earn money they just up parking charges or council tax. Not that I blame the binmen, it is the management who agree to these terms. And you have the ability to exert control over the 'management' at every local election, but the majority of people don't bother to vote. If your Councillors are letting you down, vote them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 A third of Council Tax goes to pay their pensions (at the moment).it is a terrible state of affairs. I can't see a way out of this, unless higher contributions are made by the staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 A third of Council Tax goes to pay their pensions (at the moment). Out of curiosity, where does this unattributed statistic come from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 And you have the ability to exert control over the 'management' at every local election, but the majority of people don't bother to vote. If your Councillors are letting you down, vote them out. Is it the councillors who set each and every wage? I do vote but none of the politicians seem to be able to grasp the nettle. We had 10 years of the Labour party relaxing the purse strings and whilst i love the NHS , the chicken is coming home to roost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 The Local Government Pension Scheme runs at a surplus and is projected to for at least the next 25 years (as far as the projections have been made) which is why HMG are holding separate talks with the likes of UNISON and the reason that their members haven't been balloted. The Hutton report states that and HMG accept that. Still, let's not let the truth get in the way and let's make up things about 1/3 of council tax. Idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Jesus!? Bin-men earn £32k on average!? I would be better off doing that for a living!!! I'd like to know the hours worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I'd like to know the hours worked. I'm willing to bet it's job & knock. It's totally and utterly insane money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I'd like to know the hours worked. According to that article, it's an average of 24 hours a week. Despite being "contracted" to 37 hours a week, once they get beyond 6 hours in a day, they automatically qualify for time-and-a-half overtime. Where's the incentive to actually get the job done efficiently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 I'm willing to bet it's job & knock. It's totally and utterly insane money. Having now read it all I see it is indeed job n knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 And you have the ability to exert control over the 'management' at every local election, but the majority of people don't bother to vote. If your Councillors are letting you down, vote them out. Great point. As a country we look too "central" for our solutions to problems. It's all about "what are the Govt doing about this or that". Having lived in the States and seen local politics at its best (granted sometimes they go OTT, with some of the propositions), it's something I strongly believe we should move towards.The problem is that the council's will always blame Local Government Finance Settlement's for cuts, bad service or all manner of other woes.It ends up with local councils looking like Administrator's rather than policy makers, and therefore there's no point in people voting. If real power was devolved down to local people, not only would you get a higher calibre of councillors, but local people's vote would really make a difference. It's been travelling the wrong way for years, but was speeded up under Thatcher.A whole raft of measures were put in place to try and curb left wing councils and people like Derek Hatton. My view is that if the people of Liverpool want Hatton and the ilk running them, that's up to them, not some Tory sat in Whitehall. I would give local councils tax raising powers and more control over spending. At the moment we're just tinkering around the edges, because none of the 3 main parties want to give up any oppurtunity to "shape" our lives. Local people should run more of our lives with central Govt just running the stuff that needs joining together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 According to that article, it's an average of 24 hours a week. Despite being "contracted" to 37 hours a week, once they get beyond 6 hours in a day, they automatically qualify for time-and-a-half overtime. Where's the incentive to actually get the job done efficiently? That is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franny Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Well looking at this thread, which basically is a tale of woes from public and private sectors, if it tells us anything, it's that free market capitalism doesn't work. I think we're all agreed on that.Everyones been screwed and no-ones happy. but how do you measure happiness, on the public or private scale ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 A third of Council Tax goes to pay their pensions (at the moment). 72% of FACTs posted on a web forum are made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 72% of FACTs posted on a web forum are made up. Espeicially that comical one posted by the Grandad! Keep it up old boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Was southampton one of the councils that invested tens of millions of £ in Icelandic banks and then lost it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 1 July, 2011 Share Posted 1 July, 2011 Ok, then who educates your children, empties your bins, and would risk their life running into a burning building to save the lives of yourself and your family? These people do a decent job for a salary lower than the private sector. They deserve a decent pension. If you work in the private sector and are too stupid to plan for the future then that's your look out. Dense. Its a outdated myth that all (or even many) civil servents are poorly paid, the fact that some still peddle this tripe I can only put down to self-interest. In reality teachers are well paid (starting at £22k p/a) to educate everyone's children - and even after the proposed (and long overdue) reforms to public sector pensions most will still be in a infinitely better position upon retirement to the vast majority of private sector employees. If you are really arguing that private sector workers bringing up family's on a income of £6 or £7 per hour should have found heaps of spare cash from somewhere to build up a sizable pension pot for themselves then you need to get in touch with reality at some stage sunny Jim. Don't tell me this is all Tory propaganda - my own sister recently retired at 55 with a comfortable workplace pension after a lifetime of fairly well paid, secure, and to be frank relatively pleasant work within the NHS - a fate many hard grafting factory workers and the like could only dream of. I know its fashionable for civil servants to be referred to as 'key workers' these days - but it seems to me the the poor sods who work themselves to the bone generating the wealth that actually pays for our grossly inflated public sector are the real heroes of British Labour. But of course no bugger cares about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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