Public Sector Pensions - Today's Times

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm with you LD - as a Labour party leader he should have come out in support of the strikes, but it would have been political suicide at this stage I believe akin to Foot.

 

But according to some on here, the public support these strikes.

 

We are not talking about miners or British Leyland here, we are talking about Teachers, and yet the leader of the Labour movement can't bring himself to back them. He knows, what most of us know, that these strikes are unpopular with the British public and that it is people protecting their own generous pension benefits.It's not a just and reasonable reason to strike.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

But according to some on here, the public support these strikes.

 

We are not talking about miners or British Leyland here, we are talking about Teachers, and yet the leader of the Labour movement can't bring himself to back them. He knows, what most of us know, that these strikes are unpopular with the British public and that it is people protecting their own generous pension benefits.It's not a just and reasonable reason to strike.

 

see my reply to dunce...

[Thedelldays]

it says something when the so called biggest strikes in god knows how many years are about to happen and the people most aligned (labour) to this cant even back it

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

We've suffered the same you realise and the pensions are the last straw. I think many of you on here underestimate the support we have. Colchester is extremely receptive, mates in Chelmsford are reporting lots of office workers applauding and from what I've seen on the BBC London is the same. It's only a start, but it's a fight that we MUST and ultimately WILL win. Anyway, back to it, protesting to protect the quality of he services you all use.

 

By the way, I take umbrage with your insinuation that I called you 'gay'. It was Sergei who jumped to that conclusion, I merely asked if you had moved in.

 

And how did you mean for that statement to be interpreted?

[Lord Duckhunter]

it says something when the so called biggest strikes in god knows how many years are about to happen and the people most aligned (labour) to this cant even back it

 

Exactly.

 

The Brothers will be wondering why they parachuted Ed in above the heads of the MP's, who wanted David.

[Colinjb]

Some status updates here from a 'striking' teacher friend of mine on facebook:

 

Is still protesting whilst visiting the river island sale

 

 

Is proresting by eatong chips

 

 

Is protesting by doing work for school yea I do get the irony of this but it needs doing

 

 

Would like to apologise to all parents who have had their free daily child minding service taken away for one day lol

[stevegrant]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Public-Vs-Private-Sector-Pensions-Who-Is-Better-Off-In-Retirement/Article/201106416021556?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_16021556_Public_Vs_Private_Sector_Pensions%3A_Who_Is_Better_Off_In_Retirement

 

Interesting article.

Even as someone who's very much on the anti-strike side, I'd be very wary of taking figures from Sky, who made absolutely no secret of their support for the Conservatives during the election.

[stevegrant]

Some status updates here from a 'striking' teacher friend of mine on facebook:

 

Is still protesting whilst visiting the river island sale

 

 

Is proresting by eatong chips

 

 

Is protesting by doing work for school yea I do get the irony of this but it needs doing

 

 

Would like to apologise to all parents who have had their free daily child minding service taken away for one day lol

Good to know there's a high level of literacy among our teachers

[um pahars]

25 years is great, but what about new public sector workers, what about our growing population, what about our aging population? It dosent add up im afraid you greedy piggy.

 

The longer you push out the forecasts the better the Public Sector pension situation actually becomes.

 

Now if we're all up for a race to the bottom, then let's be open about it, but whilst there is a short term spike to the cost of Public Sector pensions, there is a sharp reduction as you give the forecasts longevity (as recent changes start to kick in).

[Lord Duckhunter]

Having seen some of the scruffy barstewards marching I shudder to think what sort of education these people are giving our kids. It's hardly Goodbye Mr Chips............

 

I just hope Cameron and Clegg have the balls to stand up and be counted. Grocer Heath shied away from confronting the unions and I have a feeling Cameron will do the same.

 

I find it that strange that Red Ed, aligned himself with the anti cuts march, but wont do the same for the teachers. Perhaps this goes to show how out of touch these teachers are over this issue...

[badgerx16]

25 years is great, but what about new public sector workers, what about our growing population, what about our aging population? It dosent add up im afraid you greedy piggy.

 

How about the T&C's on your P46? Sorry to be harsh (but as you can tell I completely disagree with all of this)... but I could find half a dozen people in my phone book that would bite the governments arm off to take your job off you on reduced terms to yours. Pretty sure I could have a stroll up the highstreet and find another dozen too!

 

And thats the point to me, its selfish and greedy.

 

At least let me pop home for a quick shower and shave, at least let me look pretty when you **** me over!

 

 

I would LOVE you to find 'half a dozen people in the phone book' with the technical expertise, qualifications, and experience of the complex IT systems I manage, plus the legislation and compliance regulations that apply to them, and then ask them to work for a lower salary, LOL ! You know f*** all about my job, and f*** all about what it requires. If I were to be doing the same job in the private sector I know for a FACT that I could earn up to 33% more. So from my perspective I provide excellent VFM for YOUR tax payments, you shoud be grateful. ;-)

 

As for the 'new' public sector workers, they are already on new Ts & Cs, giving them less benefits than people like me who have been in the job for 30 years.

 

And as for the 'greedy piggy' comment, you come across as a pathetic, sad, little, misguided, ***t.

Edited 30 June, 2011 by badgerx16

[LGTL]

Having seen some of the scruffy barstewards marching I shudder to think what sort of education these people are giving our kids. It's hardly Goodbye Mr Chips............

 

I just hope Cameron and Clegg have the balls to stand up and be counted. Grocer Heath shied away from confronting the unions and I have a feeling Cameron will do the same.

 

I find it that strange that Red Ed, aligned himself with the anti cuts march, but wont do the same for the teachers. Perhaps this goes to show how out of touch these teachers are over this issue...

 

Red Ed just doesn't want to be asscociated with bending over to the Unions. I expect he's raising a glass to them in the privacy of his own home.

 

Anyway, think this thread has run it's course. People agree with it and others don't, that's life.

Edited 30 June, 2011 by LGTL

[Jonnyboy]

I think the teachers can take heart that the private sector BA strikers won through and defeated Willie Walsh and kept their contract perks.

 

Last financial year the (tax payer owned) banks were paid out over £5billion in bonuses (in a recession).

 

The government want to take about half that off the teachers to pay down the deficit (ie their debt for bailing out the banks).

 

Hmmm, I suppose they couldve windfall taxed the banks properly, but then how would JackaStorrie's pimps be able to afford to take him all round London's top restaurants and woo him with champagne?

[CB Saint]

Just watched some of it on the news. One of the strikers was carrying a placard saying "fair pensions for all". Amen to that!!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I would LOVE you to find 'half a dozen people in the phone book' with the technical expertise, qualifications, and experience of the complex IT systems I manage, plus the legislation and compliance regulations that apply to them, and then ask them to work for a lower salary, LOL ! You know f*** all about my job, and f*** all about what it requires. If I were to be doing the same job in the private sector I know for a FACT that I could earn up to 33% more. So from my perspective I provide excellent VFM for YOUR tax payments, you shoud be grateful. ;-)

 

As for the 'new' public sector workers, they are already on new Ts & Cs, giving them less benefits than people like me who have been in the job for 30 years.

 

And as for the 'greedy piggy' comment, you come across as a pathetic, sad, little, misguided, ***t.

 

I am not being controversial Badger and I can understand your ire but if I could earn 33% more in the private sector I would.

[View From The Top]

I am not being controversial Badger and I can understand your ire but if I could earn 33% more in the private sector I would.

 

Which is why we are fast running out of maths and science teachers and struggling to attract decent ones.

[View From The Top]

My wife worked out that, with the proposals as they stand, she will work 6 years longer, pay an extra £21,000 into the pension fund and receive £110,000 less over the course of her retirement based on her living until she's 85.

 

Fair to say she's not 'kin happy.

[badgerx16]

I am not being controversial Badger and I can understand your ire but if I could earn 33% more in the private sector I would.

Because I am content with earning enough to suit my family's needs, in a job I generally enjoy doing, living in the area that I do. Combined with my wife's teacher's salary we have an acceptably comfortable standard of living, and I'm not as avaricious as some others on here seem to be.

Edited 30 June, 2011 by badgerx16

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Which is why we are fast running out of maths and science teachers and struggling to attract decent ones.

 

I thought Badger was in IT and having a tough time of it because his team had been cut back.

 

I would have expected teacher numbers to have increased in the current climate.

[View From The Top]

I thought Badger was in IT and having a tough time of it because his team had been cut back.

 

I would have expected teacher numbers to have increased in the current climate.

 

They'll be an increase this year as the rush to beat the tuition fee rises kicks in but the trend in maths and sciences is down, down, down.

 

That's why they are introducing a £20K golden hello for maths and science grads with a 1st.

 

Massive shortage of MFL as well but as with all things some areas are more impacted than others and if you're a tough secondary up here then you are seriously struggling.

[the stain]

The last few posts have highlighted one of the reasons why this thread has gone on for so long with such level of disagreement - some people just don't understand that working for the good of society, rather than their own pockets or for the good of a company, is something that some people actually want to do - even if it means less pay. However,the pay-off for that has always been, the promise of security and a good old age. When the government starts to remove that security of promise of a good retirement, the thought of working in the public sector becomes slightly less appealing, even if you're doing good for society. Who does the government wish to attract to the public sector, or as the focus has been during the dtrike, teaching? People moan about the quality of teachers (wholly unjustifiably, IMO, other than a couple in each school) but do they think that the changing of terms and conditions is going to encourage higher calibre candidates to enter the profession? This is, after all, one the most important services there is - the education of the workers of the future (not to mention a decent babysitting service for some)

[Johnny Bognor]

It seems to me that there are two factors that have to be considered in the pension reform:

 

1) The deficit

2) People living longer

 

I don't buy the deficit argument in relation to teachers. Simply cutting the number of non-jobs in the public sector would go some way to preserving the teachers pensions and cutting the deficit at the same time.

 

However, people are living longer and this includes teachers too. What astounds me is that teachers expect us to pay more becuase they are going to live longer. Having said this, I would like to put a proposal forward that may solve the current disagreements. Teachers will live longer, but don't want to pay for it. The tax payer will struggle to fund it.

 

Perhaps state sponsored euphanasia after 25 years of retirement, removes the issue of teachers living longer. Therefore they can keep their pensions as they are, and enjoy the standard of retirement they have come to expect, whilst the taxpayer doesn't have to pick up the tab. Removing the issue of living longer solves the problem in one foul swoop. Just a thought..... carry on.

[View From The Top]

It seems to me that there are two factors that have to be considered in the pension reform:

 

1) The deficit

2) People living longer

 

I don't buy the deficit argument in relation to teachers. Simply cutting the number of non-jobs in the public sector would go some way to preserving the teachers pensions and cutting the deficit at the same time.

 

However, people are living longer and this includes teachers too. What astounds me is that teachers expect us to pay more becuase they are going to live longer. Having said this, I would like to put a proposal forward that may solve the current disagreements. Teachers will live longer, but don't want to pay for it. The tax payer would struggle to fund this. Perhaps state sponsored euphanasia after 25 years of retirement, removes the issue of teachers living longer. Therefore they can keep their pensions as they are, and enjoy the standard of retirement they have come to expect, whilst the taxpayer doesn't have to pick up the tab. Removing the issue of living longer solves the problem in one foul swoop. Just a thought..... carry on.

 

Got to be a better than option than being slumped in your pi ss soaked cacks waiting for death.

[Johnny Bognor]

Got to be a better than option than being slumped in your pi ss soaked cacks waiting for death.

 

I am sure this proposal will be agreeable to all sides, as who wants to sit there in their pi ss soaked cacks anyway?

 

If living longer is a problem, then compulsory euphanasia for teachers solves this problem. The issue with the modern career politician is that they don't come up with real solutions to real probems. We just need to agree on whether the timescale is 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 years. Perhaps we can have a poll from the teachers on here, whereby they can state how long they are prepared to live after retiring. The rest of us can then look at how affordable this is.

Edited 30 June, 2011 by Johnny Bognor

[Jonnyboy]

It seems to me that there are two factors that have to be considered in the pension reform:

 

1) The deficit

2) People living longer

 

I don't buy the deficit argument in relation to teachers. Simply cutting the number of non-jobs in the public sector would go some way to preserving the teachers pensions and cutting the deficit at the same time.

 

However, people are living longer and this includes teachers too. What astounds me is that teachers expect us to pay more becuase they are going to live longer. Having said this, I would like to put a proposal forward that may solve the current disagreements. Teachers will live longer, but don't want to pay for it. The tax payer will struggle to fund it.

 

Perhaps state sponsored euphanasia after 25 years of retirement, removes the issue of teachers living longer. Therefore they can keep their pensions as they are, and enjoy the standard of retirement they have come to expect, whilst the taxpayer doesn't have to pick up the tab. Removing the issue of living longer solves the problem in one foul swoop. Just a thought..... carry on.

 

they already had new, crapper terms signed and agreed in 2008.

 

they havent discovered a cure for cancer since then, afaiam

[View From The Top]

I am sure this proposal will be agreeable to all sides, as who wants to sit there in their pi ss soaked cacks anyway?

 

If living longer is a problem, then compulsory euphanasia for teachers solves this problem. The issue with the modern career politician is that they don't come up with real solutions to real probems. We just need to agree on whether the timescale is 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 years. Perhaps we can have a poll from the teachers on here, whereby they can state how long they are prepared to live after retiring. The rest of us can then look at how affordable this is.

 

Still, we'll still be alive after your private sector schmucks have worked yourselves into an early grave or frozen to death in old age due to not having a decent pension so it's not all bad.

[SO16_Saint]

Bless em, little loves on tv saying that they have 'agreed to work until they're 65' and that it was their 'right' to have a generous pension.

 

Seriously? **** off!

[the stain]

Good to know there's a high level of literacy among our teachers

 

There are illiterates amongst teaching staff, other public sector workers, the private sector and admins of forums all over the world, just as there are c*nts amongst teaching staff, other public sector workers, the private sector and admins of forums all over the world

[the stain]

Having seen some of the scruffy barstewards marching I shudder to think what sort of education these people are giving our kids. It's hardly Goodbye Mr Chips............

 

What a stupendous idiot.

[SO16_Saint]

Some right idiot on QT saying that the reason public sector workers are striking is because they're paid less than private sector workers and deserve a bigger pension. Wrong.

 

I work and my employer pays sod all into my pension. My pension is paid for by ME.

[Wade Garrett]

If the strikes were the right and proper thing to do, why is Red Ed Milliband telling people not to strike,and that it is a "mistake". He owes his job to the unions, but even he is not backing them.

 

He said it was wrong of the teachers to strike while they were still in negotiations. A little bit different to saying they shouldn't strike at all.

 

He's still the wrong man to be leading Labour though. His brother would have had a field day with the sorry coalition, but from Ed it's like 'being savaged by a sheep'.

[Colinjb]

Some right idiot on QT saying that the reason public sector workers are striking is because they're paid less than private sector workers and deserve a bigger pension. Wrong.

 

I work and my employer pays sod all into my pension. My pension is paid for by ME.

 

Quite, one of the biggest misconceptions about this whole affair.

[SO16_Saint]

Also, people saying that reducing pensions for teachers will restrict the numbers of teachers in the future.

 

Surely teachers become teachers because they want to teach, not because if the cracking pension they get.

[Colinjb]

He's still the wrong man to be leading Labour though. His brother would have had a field day with the sorry coalition, but from Ed it's like 'being savaged by a sheep'.

 

The unions should have backed the one with a bit of a backbone then, talk about fortune shooting you in the foot.

[badgerx16]

Bless em, little loves on tv saying that they have 'agreed to work until they're 65' and that it was their 'right' to have a generous pension.

 

Seriously? **** off!

So far this academic year my wife has been bitten, kicked, spat upon, scratched, stamped on, and called a "f'***ing whore" by members of her class of 6 year olds. Yet every morning she goes into work because she feels she is giving them life chances they might otherwise not get a chance of.

 

So why don't you re-evaluate what it is exactly that teachers give to society ?

[Colinjb]

Also, people saying that reducing pensions for teachers will restrict the numbers of teachers in the future.

 

Surely teachers become teachers because they want to teach, not because if the cracking pension they get.

 

Absolutely, I thought it was all about the selfless desire from people who want to serve society. (As quoted earlier, a nobel but I suspect nieve viewpoint.)

[SO16_Saint]

So far this academic year my wife has been bitten, kicked, spat upon, scratched, stamped on, and called a "f'***ing whore" by members of her class of 6 year olds. Yet every morning she goes into work because she feels she is giving them life chances they might otherwise not get a chance of.

 

So why don't you re-evaluate what it is exactly that teachers give to society ?

 

It's not just teachers that get abused at work

[SO16_Saint]

2/3 of people in the private sector have NO pension whatsoever

[LGTL]

It's not just teachers that get abused at work

 

Go on...

[aintforever]

It is pathetic watching these people try and justify why they deserve their gold plated pensions. Like a bunch of greedy little kids.

 

It is a snapshot of the World in general, it will be funny watching the Yanks try and pay off their trillions of debt. People happily talk about austerity measures but when it comes to being even slightly worse of themselves they are not prepared to give an inch.

[Jonnyboy]

Go on...

 

An old lady told me I must have worms the other day. True story.

[SO16_Saint]

Go on...

 

My dad is a bus driver and his friend got kicked half to death by punters because he asked them to not drnkn a can of beer on the bus.

 

Was in hospital for weeks.

[badgerx16]

2/3 of people in the private sector have NO pension whatsoever

Well maybe they should take the same helpful advice that public sector workers have been given elsewhere in this thread - move jobs !

 

Or maybe you have deliberately misquoted a reference that states that they 'get no pension assistance from their employer' ? ( "Data from the Office for National Statistics show that 62.9% of private sector workers are not saving into an occupational scheme" - http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/11/private-sector-pensions-retirement-planning )

Edited 30 June, 2011 by badgerx16

[LGTL]

My dad is a bus driver and his friend got kicked half to death by punters because he asked them to not drnkn a can of beer on the bus.

 

Was in hospital for weeks.

 

I was expecting a taxi driver but close enough. It is their children that are probably terrorising the teachers unfortunately.

 

Only difference is at least they can (attempt) to fight back and/or protect themselves physically if they possible can.

[SO16_Saint]

Well maybe they should take the same helpful advice that public sector workers have been given elsewhere in this thread - move jobs !

 

Or maybe you have deliberately misquoted a reference that states that they 'get no pension assistance from their employer' ?

 

Some private sector companies don't assist to their employers pension fund because it isn't AFFORDABLE to do so.

 

It isnt affordable to keep the levels of public sector pensions etc at current levels, so something's got to give.

[Jonnyboy]

Some private sector companies don't assist to their employers pension fund because it isn't AFFORDABLE to do so.

 

It isnt affordable to keep the levels of public sector pensions etc at current levels, so something's got to give.

 

Well as of a year or two private employers will be obliged to pay into a pension for their employees hth.

[SO16_Saint]

Well as of a year or two private employers will be obliged to pay into a pension for their employees hth.

 

Good

[Wade Garrett]

Some private sector companies don't assist to their employers pension fund because it isn't AFFORDABLE to do so.

 

It isnt affordable to keep the levels of public sector pensions etc at current levels, so something's got to give.

 

The percentage of GDP used to pay the pensions is actually going to lower significantly in years to come because of the deal the teachers signed in 2008, so you're wrong.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Also, people saying that reducing pensions for teachers will restrict the numbers of teachers in the future.

 

Surely teachers become teachers because they want to teach, not because if the cracking pension they get.

 

Why would a maths graduate accept 21k in teaching when they could command 35k elsewhere?!? Teaching may be a vocation, but 14k would do a lot of talking.

 

Remember, the NUT and ATL are not affiliated to Labour, maybe that's why Miliband didn't say anything conclusive?

[Jonnyboy]

Thing is, there's more votes in protecting NHS services than teaching quality.

 

Besides, big business doesnt want a well educated, intelligent workforce with critical thinking skills. It prefers a semi-illiterate drone who is happy to do as its told and not worry about having a pension or not.