Public Sector Pensions - Today's Times

[badgerx16]

My mistake, the taxpayer. Also public sector employees contributions is actually between 1.5% and 3.5%. Link below:

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3077240.ece

My contributions are currently 7.2%, so that link is most certainly wrong. The current levels for the LGPS are found here :

 

http://www.lgps.org.uk/lge/core/page.do?pageId=10482871

 

Please note the MINIMUM is 5%.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

For tax paid read tax avoidance.

 

A rather shallow argument VFTT to counter the billions of tax that the city brings in. Tax is not some voluntary donation you make if you can get out of it.

[View From The Top]

A rather shallow argument VFTT to counter the billions of tax that the city brings in. Tax is not some voluntary donation you make if you can get out of it.

 

Not really. If you want to use the tax argument then you should use what they should pay, not the meagre amount they do or are you totally unaware of how little they do pay?

 

Check how much Barclay's didn't pay, or Morgan Stanley for that matter.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Not really. If you want to use the tax argument then you should use what they should pay, not the meagre amount they do or are you totally unaware of how little they do pay?

 

Check how much Barclay's didn't pay, or Morgan Stanley for that matter.

 

Or that bastion of the left the Guardian

 

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-guardians-rank-hypocrisy-on-tax-avoidance/

 

Or David Miliband

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100082402/david-milibands-clever-little-tax-avoidance-scheme/

 

Well Digby Jones reckons that the city contributes 20% of total tax. Now that is a lot.

 

Now I resent the Bankers as much as the next man but I also see the fact that we have a thriving bank sector to put us back on course. Would you rather they moved to Frankfurt?

[View From The Top]

Or that bastion of the left the Guardian

 

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-guardians-rank-hypocrisy-on-tax-avoidance/

 

Or David Miliband

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100082402/david-milibands-clever-little-tax-avoidance-scheme/

 

Well Digby Jones reckons that the city contributes 20% of total tax. Now that is a lot.

 

Now I resent the Bankers as much as the next man but I also see the fact that we have a thriving bank sector to put us back on course. Would you rather they moved to Frankfurt?

 

Jesus, have you actually read this thread.

 

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

[revolution saint]

and sadly it will be a healthy banking sector that helps gets us out of it. Fred the Shred would have been slung in jail in China and quite rightly so. He arrived and made 18,000 redundant and then screwed up and made another 18,000 lose their jobs.

 

It does make you wonder what the commercial banking sector actually do, doesn't it? Seems to me like they are gamblers who can reap the rewards when they win and never pick up the tab when they lose. Oh and they can brag a fair bit too. I mean I know what doctors, teachers, servicemen, sheet metal workers, car production workers etc do - they either create or facilitate jobs, or the talent to do those jobs. Bankers though? In their purest form they supply capital which is OK except it's not their capital is it? It's someone else's capital and, if you're a saver, then it's your capital. Purely my opinion but they seem like glorified middle men, a bit like estate agents but with bigger egos.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Jesus, have you actually read this thread.

 

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

 

No I have not seen much about the brain drain.

 

You seem to be cherry picking what to reply to.

 

What you forget is that alot of us aspire to the same social goals as yourself but believe that you have to create the right environment for the private sector to flourish to achieve it.

[LGTL]

Who remembers a time when we didn't rely so heavily on "the city"?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Who remembers a time when we didn't rely so heavily on "the city"?

 

What before the unions and Thatcher screwed our manufacturing base?

[shurlock]

And the tax generated from the city?

 

How about on the liability side- the fiscal costs of bailing out banks and the slowdown an unstable, highly leveraged banking system has had on the wider economy? Once you net out these effects, increased tax revenues look like crumbs.

Edited 29 June, 2011 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Who remembers a time when we didn't rely so heavily on "the city"?

 

The country has been heavily dependent on the City for well over a century - dates back to Victorian times (check Dickens’s Mr Merdle for a literary reference or the discussion of MacMillan gap between WWI and WWII). In one sense, political parties of all stripes have simply going along with the grain of the country's comparative advantage - much safer to do than execute and nail some risky industrial pirouette, even if it has long-term advantages.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

How about on the liability side- the fiscal costs of bailing out banks and the slowdown a crocked banking system has had on the wider economy? Once you net out these effects, increased tax revenues look like crumbs.

 

In terms of our recovering economy that means nothing. It a bit like saying to the Germans in 1945 'well you voted for him'.

[View From The Top]

In terms of our recovering economy that means nothing. It a bit like saying to the Germans in 1945 'well you voted for him'.

 

It's the same argument that you are using about corporation tax though. The idea that we should be happy that they give us 20p in the £ instead of what they should pay, especially as we, the tax payer, bailed them out.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

No, funny you ask as going out with him tomorrow after work where he's making a rare appearance. Meeting up with the boys in St Kaths dock, prob the Living Room, from there we'll eat at Hawkesmoor in Cov gdn before Mahiki, he's offered to pay for a table as he's made an absolute killing this weak from betting on falling oil prices! God, that's a lot of suppliers, taxi drivers, chefs, bar and waiting staff we'll be supporting tomorrow!

 

Pop by after the protest no doubt you'll be smashing windows at, he'll be happy to buy you a beer or 2 seeing as he pays your and 10+ of your colleagues their salaries from his taxes alone.

 

I'm afraid I won't be jeopardising my career by doing that, but I'll be happy to pop by and explain why he is an absolute **** who should be forced to pay for double that amount seeing as his despicable scum-like ilk created this crisis.

 

Now, go back to licking his arse like the faithful lap dog you are. There's a good boy.

[shurlock]

In terms of our recovering economy that means nothing. It a bit like saying to the Germans in 1945 'well you voted for him'.

 

Until the next time it blows up -at least, the jerries have learned their lesson or failing that their military had its hands tied.

[JackanorySFC]

I'm afraid I won't be jeopardising my career by doing that, but I'll be happy to pop by and explain why he is an absolute **** who should be forced to pay for double that amount seeing as his despicable scum-like ilk created this crisis.

 

Now, go back to licking his arse like the faithful lap dog you are. There's a good boy.

 

Do you genuinely think I hard working father of 2 youve never met is a c u n t purely because he's a banker and likes to get a round in?

 

So much hate?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Do you genuinely think I hard working father of 2 youve never met is a c u n t purely because he's a banker and likes to get a round in?

 

So much hate?

 

As part of the commercial banking sector he and others not just in The City but around the globe created this crisis which has ****ed over the entire planet! They are all responsible and should be publicly lambasted, take pay cuts, have the personal losses they made at their bank taken from their pay cheques and put in the public exchequer in installmenta and ALL bonuses should stop until the country is on it's feet again.

 

Yes I will call him a right ****ing **** because why should he get away scot free when I and millions of others are having to suffer the **** that he created? The day I see a banker fall on hard times will be the day hell freezes over, the largest bunch of self serving ****s outside of Westminster.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

As part of the commercial banking sector he and others not just in The City but around the globe created this crisis which has ****ed over the entire planet! They are all responsible and should be publicly lambasted, take pay cuts, have the personal losses they made at their bank taken from their pay cheques and put in the public exchequer in installmenta and ALL bonuses should stop until the country is on it's feet again.

 

Yes I will call him a right ****ing **** because why should he get away scot free when I and millions of others are having to suffer the **** that he created? The day I see a banker fall on hard times will be the day hell freezes over, the largest bunch of self serving ****s outside of Westminster.

 

Try and venture out of the classroom some time. The real world is somewhat different to how your stereotypical and prejudiced world seems to perceive.

[egg]

All I have read on here is 12 pages of blame and counter blame. The bottom line is that the economy is in a mess.

 

It's no good keep harping on about the bail out to banks etc. Whether it was right or wrong it's been done and the money has gone.

 

We all (the private and public sector) need to face the reality of a massive debt and aging population. We cannot carry on as we were - changes need to be made . It seems inevitable that those changes must include some alterations to public sector pensions.

 

Whilst I agree with the principle of change, the government have dealt with it appallingly and shown no respect for it's employees. The problem now is that lines have been drawn in the sand. Interesting and worrying times ahead methinks.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

It's the same argument that you are using about corporation tax though. The idea that we should be happy that they give us 20p in the £ instead of what they should pay, especially as we, the tax payer, bailed them out.

 

No I am simply saying that if you screw them they will go somewehere else and their tax will go to somebody else. This country will be rebuilt by hard work and enterprise.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Try and venture out of the classroom some time. The real world is somewhat different to how your stereotypical and prejudiced world seems to perceive.

 

Sure, give me some evidence to prove me wrong and I'll retract my statement. Best of luck with that. I hope you're seriously inconvenienced by the public sector tomorrow; it might make you realise how much you need us pal.

 

Roll on consecutive and across the board teacher strike action in the autumn.

[revolution saint]

Try and venture out of the classroom some time. The real world is somewhat different to how your stereotypical and prejudiced world seems to perceive.

 

To be fair I don't think anyone will argue the point that the commercial banking sector created this recession, or that when they f*cked up they f*cked up so big that they had to be bailed out by govt. intervention, or that those tax payers that bailed them out are now suffering the consequences. It's no wonder there will be anger when a banker is defended as "saving" jobs due to his income tax - how many jobs, lives, families, homes did his industry cost us? Conveniently forget about that don't they?

[aintforever]

Do you genuinely think I hard working father of 2 youve never met is a c u n t purely because he's a banker and likes to get a round in?

 

So much hate?

 

Hate that is totally justified. The more I read about what these people do the more I hate them. Like how they force millions in the 3rd World into starvation by p!ssing about with food derivatives, or making millions by gambling on the credit crunch.

 

It's just pure greed, and the amount we get back in tax is nothing compared to what they suck out.

[JackanorySFC]

A few of the more loony of you seem to be a tad presumptuous, I'm not a banker - I work in media so trust me, whilst I get paid well it's nowhere near banking land! I'm just trying to provide balance to those here who've never met a banker but seem to genuinely hate them?

 

Those here that seem to like to use abuse and insults rather than reasoned debate seem to be very jealous, almost aggressively so. No wonder this country produces so few winners when, judging by some responses on here, we hate the idea of anyone being successful, pathetic really.

 

I'm a normal 29 year old bloke who had a teacher for a mum and have a teacher for a gf - I'm incredibly proud of both of them and the jobs they do, if I was clever enough to go to uni maybe I'd have done the same. The fact is I'm not and I didn't so naturally I have to work hard to raise enough cash for a house now the average cost is many times the average wage, I dint apologise fir wanting an average house so realising I need to earn more than average money yo get there.

 

I just get annoyed with jealousy (clearly not of me but of people like bankers that work seriously hard and fet oaid well without ever meeting them) or People saying I've forgot my roots, you what? I still live here because I love our city, it would be far easier to live in London?

[View From The Top]

All I have read on here is 12 pages of blame and counter blame. The bottom line is that the economy is in a mess.

 

It's no good keep harping on about the bail out to banks etc. Whether it was right or wrong it's been done and the money has gone.

 

We all (the private and public sector) need to face the reality of a massive debt and aging population. We cannot carry on as we were - changes need to be made . It seems inevitable that those changes must include some alterations to public sector pensions.

 

Whilst I agree with the principle of change, the government have dealt with it appallingly and shown no respect for it's employees. The problem now is that lines have been drawn in the sand. Interesting and worrying times ahead methinks.

 

Everyone I know in the public sector knows and understands this but they/we/I feel that those in the schemes should be left alone and those schemes adjusted for new folk.

 

As Emma, one of my lasses said, she is now going to have to pay 50% to get 30% less and work an extra 6 years for the privilage so f**k it, she'll not pay anything and they (we) can look after her in her old age.

 

I'm going to bail out of the one I'm in (not been in for long), rely on one I've already built up, and use that payment to pay my mortgage off quicker, buy another house and rent it out and make my own arrangements for old age.

[revolution saint]

A few of the more loony of you seem to be a tad presumptuous, I'm not a banker - I work in media so trust me, whilst I get paid well it's nowhere near banking land! I'm just trying to provide balance to those here who've never met a banker but seem to genuinely hate them?

 

Those here that seem to like to use abuse and insults rather than reasoned debate seem to be very jealous, almost aggressively so. No wonder this country produces so few winners when, judging by some responses on here, we hate the idea of anyone being successful, pathetic really.

 

I'm a normal 29 year old bloke who had a teacher for a mum and have a teacher for a gf - I'm incredibly proud of both of them and the jobs they do, if I was clever enough to go to uni maybe I'd have done the same. The fact is I'm not and I didn't so naturally I have to work hard to raise enough cash for a house now the average cost is many times the average wage, I dint apologise fir wanting an average house so realising I need to earn more than average money yo get there.

 

I just get annoyed with jealousy (clearly not of me but of people like bankers that work seriously hard and fet oaid well without ever meeting them) or People saying I've forgot my roots, you what? I still live here because I love our city, it would be far easier to live in London?

 

For a bloke who likes reasoned argument it's surprising you haven't really offered any.

[View From The Top]

No I am simply saying that if you screw them they will go somewehere else and their tax will go to somebody else. This country will be rebuilt by hard work and enterprise.

 

I agree totally with your later point but disagree totally with the former.

 

The banks won't go anywhere because the bankers don't want to. The want a world city and London, like NY, gives them that. Even the tories accept it that's why the banks no longer use that threat. Even Boris scoffed at the idea!

 

In addition, I would suggest that the banks are actively damaging enterprise.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Sure, give me some evidence to prove me wrong and I'll retract my statement. Best of luck with that. I hope you're seriously inconvenienced by the public sector tomorrow; it might make you realise how much you need us pal.

 

Roll on consecutive and across the board teacher strike action in the autumn.

 

Will you call me gay like you did with Jackonory if I tell you that thousands in the city lost their jobs, almost all took pay cuts and bonuses stopped. They only started again when they began to make money and consequently paid more taxes.

 

I am sorry that you hope I am seriously inconvenienced by the strike tomorrow. I think that reflects badly on you.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Everyone I know in the public sector knows and understands this but they/we/I feel that those in the schemes should be left alone and those schemes adjusted for new folk.

 

As Emma, one of my lasses said, she is now going to have to pay 50% to get 30% less and work an extra 6 years for the privilage so f**k it, she'll not pay anything and they (we) can look after her in her old age.

 

I'm going to bail out of the one I'm in (not been in for long), rely on one I've already built up, and use that payment to pay my mortgage off quicker, buy another house and rent it out and make my own arrangements for old age.

 

I admire your enterprise; it will be good for you and the country as a whole.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I agree totally with your later point but disagree totally with the former.

 

The banks won't go anywhere because the bankers don't want to. The want a world city and London, like NY, gives them that. Even the tories accept it that's why the banks no longer use that threat. Even Boris scoffed at the idea!

 

In addition, I would suggest that the banks are actively damaging enterprise.

 

The EU would love our banks to go to Frankfurt.

 

I agree about banks damaging enterprise but it is not their investment arms are doing this. You seem to think I like banks; I hate them.

Edited 29 June, 2011 by Sergei Gotsmanov

[LGTL]

Will you call me gay like you did with Jackonory if I tell you that thousands in the city lost their jobs, almost all took pay cuts and bonuses stopped. They only started again when they began to make money and consequently paid more taxes.

 

I am sorry that you hope I am seriously inconvenienced by the strike tomorrow. I think that reflects badly on you.

 

What would be the point of a strike if it didn't inconvenience anyone?

[revolution saint]

Will you call me gay like you did with Jackonory if I tell you that thousands in the city lost their jobs, almost all took pay cuts and bonuses stopped. They only started again when they began to make money and consequently paid more taxes..

 

 

Surely if they were bad at their job (and they clearly were) then they deserved to have lost their jobs and had their bonuses stopped? Difference is that their bonuses and wages when they were being bad at their job, and lead us to this situation, will probably give them more than most of us will earn. The idea that they deserve those bonuses again when we are still paying for their mistakes is laughable

[egg]

Everyone I know in the public sector knows and understands this but they/we/I feel that those in the schemes should be left alone and those schemes adjusted for new folk.

 

As Emma, one of my lasses said, she is now going to have to pay 50% to get 30% less and work an extra 6 years for the privilage so f**k it, she'll not pay anything and they (we) can look after her in her old age.

 

I'm going to bail out of the one I'm in (not been in for long), rely on one I've already built up, and use that payment to pay my mortgage off quicker, buy another house and rent it out and make my own arrangements for old age.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I would be livid if I subscribed to something and then someone changed the rules unilaterally.

 

It's difficult though to have colleagues on different schemes. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

I think what you are doing is what many in the private sector (myself included) have been doing for years. That's probably music to the governments ears.

Edited 29 June, 2011 by egg
I still can't type.

[View From The Top]

The EU would love our banks to go to Frankfurt.

 

I agree about banks damaging enterprise but it is not their investment arms are doing this. You seem to think I like banks; I hate them.

 

No, but it's because of those that the High St banks are being forced into building up their cash reserves to ensure that their casino operations can operate under the new reg's.

 

They are paranoid about bad debt. Why? Because some clever sod discovered bundling up sub-prime mortgages and selling them on made money and BOOM, sub-prime lending frenzy followed by huge, massive crash. Caused by the banks and their greed.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Surely if they were bad at their job (and they clearly were) then they deserved to have lost their jobs and had their bonuses stopped? Difference is that their bonuses and wages when they were being bad at their job, and lead us to this situation, will probably give them more than most of us will earn. The idea that they deserve those bonuses again when we are still paying for their mistakes is laughable

 

You are being quite liberal with the word 'they'.

[View From The Top]

Don't get me wrong I would be livid if I subscribed to something and then someone changed the rules unilaterally.

 

It's difficult though to have colleagues on different schemes. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

I think what you are doing is what many in the private sector (myself included) have been doing for years. That's probably music to the governments ears.

 

Trust me, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have something already behind me and the wife's pension as well but I if they're going to f**k with my T&Cs then I'll bail.

 

Irony is that my plan is one running a very hefty surplus and is projected to do so for a very long time! It won't if we all bail out and the tax payer has to whack more in!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

No, but it's because of those that the High St banks are being forced into building up their cash reserves to ensure that their casino operations can operate under the new reg's.

 

They are paranoid about bad debt. Why? Because some clever sod discovered bundling up sub-prime mortgages and selling them on made money and BOOM, sub-prime lending frenzy followed by huge, massive crash. Caused by the banks and their greed.

 

Hindsight would make life much easier. Did you read about tulips in the 1700's I think.

[View From The Top]

Hindsight would make life much easier. Did you read about tulips in the 1700's I think.

 

I understand what you are saying but people, for years, were saying it was unsustainable. A very wealthy banker type who posts on here was saying it from at least 2005 onwards. That's why Osborne's call to follow the Irish model was so insane and I can be smug enough to say that I said that on here at the time.

 

The problem was that people didn't want to hear because so much money was being made.

 

History is littered with bubbles, from Tulips to the South Seas.

[revolution saint]

You are being quite liberal with the word 'they'.

 

Of course I am, and it's quite deliberate. Just as Jackanory chose in his opening post to criticise the public sector as a group so I choose to criticise the banking sector as a group (and as a group rewarded apparently for success, haven't they been rewarded well for such failure). Obviously I realise it's more complex than that though.

[Whitey Grandad]

To be fair I don't think anyone will argue the point that the commercial banking sector created this recession, or that when they f*cked up they f*cked up so big that they had to be bailed out by govt. intervention, or that those tax payers that bailed them out are now suffering the consequences. It's no wonder there will be anger when a banker is defended as "saving" jobs due to his income tax - how many jobs, lives, families, homes did his industry cost us? Conveniently forget about that don't they?

 

There was a whole lot more to it than that, but we don't have all night.

[Jonnyboy]

Do you genuinely think I hard working father of 2 youve never met is a c u n t purely because he's a banker and likes to get a round in?

 

So much hate?

 

You started the hate when someone suggested the banks should pay their fair share of tax

[revolution saint]

There was a whole lot more to it than that, but we don't have all night.

 

I could explain why you're wrong but I don't have all night either, and of course it's pretty hard when you don't offer any reason except a vague assertion. Tell you what, have a cup of ovaltine and a nap and get back to me.

[JackanorySFC]

You started the hate when someone suggested the banks should pay their fair share of tax

 

Ha, I started the hate eh? When I (in hindsight underestimated the levels of hatred but hey) guessed at the reactions of the inward looking, never met a banker but blame every single one of them because they are all scum and do nothing for the country, types on here I was highlighting ignorance, I've never insulted anyone or called anyone anything.

 

I havnt insulted anyone, someone on here who happens to be a teacher who may be educating your children has made homophobic remarks to me (thought that and racism was banned on here?), I've been told I've forgotten my roots and my mate that no one here has met has been called a c u n t despite him being a hard working father and husband.

 

No hate from me, once again I'm from a labour family, mum a teacher from harefield dad a printer from the flower roads, missus is a teacher with a 2:1 in science and a masters that is a teacher yo make a difference, and I tell her what I say here - we as a country are skint and can't continue to pay for her benefits, as such I've taken it upon myself to work harder in the private sector to provide us with a stable future. If that is hate, Jesus, chin up fella!

Edited 29 June, 2011 by JackanorySFC
Sentence

[JackanorySFC]

Of course I am, and it's quite deliberate. Just as Jackanory chose in his opening post to criticise the public sector as a group so I choose to criticise the banking sector as a group (and as a group rewarded apparently for success, haven't they been rewarded well for such failure). Obviously I realise it's more complex than that though.

 

That's completely incorrect, read the op again and you will see I'm talking about teachers, not "the public sector as a whole", I also state my admiration for the amazing job they do more than once.

 

Don't paraphrase me.

[Jonnyboy]

Ha, I started the hate eh? When I (in hindsight underestimated the levels of hatred but hey) guessed at the reactions of the inward looking, never met a banker but blame every single one of them because they are all scum and do nothing for the country, types on here I was highlighting ignorance, I've never insulted anyone or called anyone anything.

 

I havnt insulted anyone, someone on here who happens to be a teacher who may be educating your children has made homophobic remarks to me (thought that and racism was banned on here?), I've been told I've forgotten my roots and my mate that no one here has met has been called a c u n t despite him being a hard working father and husband.

 

No hate from me, once again I'm from a labour family, mum a teacher from harefield dad a printer from the flower roads, missus is a teacher with a 2:1 in science and a masters that is a teacher yo make a difference, and I tell her what I say here - we as a country are skint and can't continue to pay for her benefits, as such I've taken it upon myself to work harder in the private sector to provide us with a stable future. If that is hate, Jesus, chin up fella!

 

Jackanory is a story teller on a wind up ;-)

[revolution saint]

Ha, I started the hate eh? When I (in hindsight underestimated the levels of hatred but hey) guessed at the reactions of the inward looking, never met a banker but blame every single one of them because they are all scum and do nothing for the country, types on here I was highlighting ignorance, I've never insulted anyone or called anyone anything.

 

I havnt insulted anyone, someone on here who happens to be a teacher who may be educating your children has made homophobic remarks to me (thought that and racism was banned on here?), I've been told I've forgotten my roots and my mate that no one here has met has been called a c u n t despite him being a hard working father and husband.

 

No hate from me, once again I'm from a labour family, mum a teacher from harefield dad a printer from the flower roads, missus is a teacher with a 2:1 in science and a masters that is a teacher yo make a difference, and I tell her what I say here - we as a country are skint and can't continue to pay for her benefits, as such I've taken it upon myself to work harder in the private sector to provide us with a stable future. If that is hate, Jesus, chin up fella!

 

Well to be fair you've been just as generalist about the public sector as anyone has been about bankers. In your first post didn't you say, and I'm paraphrasing here, that you "despaired of any young teacher without an intelligent significant other to provide a counter point argument"? Don't you find that even a little patronising?

 

You defend your mate the banker purely on the basis of how much he pays in tax (as if that was ever any yardstick for how hard someone works) but carefully forgetting how much the banking industry has cost us, and how much our tax has bailed out your mate's industry. Is it any wonder people are going to find issue with that argument? Indeed we could argue that failing pension funds both private and public are a direct result of your hard working banker mate's industry and it's failure to keep it's house in order (although I bet his pension is OK eh?).

 

Now I'm sure you're a nice enough fella, and I shouldn't have called you a c u n t, but from the very first post you said your gf was being "brainwashed" when really she just had a different viewpoint, or was willing to listen to one, than you. That's not really being brainwashed at all - it's just called disagreeing with you and that's what a lot of this thread is about. If you really don't like it then maybe you should have thought before posting in the first place, ortherwise enjoy the mostly reasoned argument you proclaim to love so much.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

I think the public sector and bankers are both basket cases. Neither adds any value to the economy in a real sense. Bankers just gamble with other peoples money, nice work if you can get it but you need the right tie. Public sector just spends other peoples money. When all this goes tits up the only people making a living will be those who contribute something of value, be that a product, or a service.

[egg]

To be fair I don't think anyone will argue the point that the commercial banking sector created this recession, or that when they f*cked up they f*cked up so big that they had to be bailed out by govt. intervention, or that those tax payers that bailed them out are now suffering the consequences. It's no wonder there will be anger when a banker is defended as "saving" jobs due to his income tax - how many jobs, lives, families, homes did his industry cost us? Conveniently forget about that don't they?

 

 

 

How does pointing the finger of blame help deal with the very real mess that we are in?

 

How does striking make money available for pensions in the future?

[Wade Garrett]

Bankers are just bookies who get someone else to pay up when they lose.

 

I have very little respect for them.

 

Jackanory, I admire you for working harder in the private sector to provide yourself a stable future. Does that mean I won't have to wait as long for my Big Mac tomorrow?

[JackanorySFC]

Bankers are just bookies who get someone else to pay up when they lose.

 

I have very little respect for them.

 

Jackanory, I admire you for working harder in the private sector to provide yourself a stable future. Does that mean I won't have to wait as long for my Big Mac tomorrow?

 

If bankers don't make their clients and their banks they get sacked, not a pat on the back and a "never mind son, here's another £1m of our clients money to spunk".

 

And as for big macs, if it was that or going on the rock n roll sponging off hard working tax payers I'd grab the burger flipper and get cracking, no worries.