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Public Sector Pensions - Today's Times


JackanorySFC

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I note from reading today’s Times that Public Sector Unions are up in arms at Danny Alexander’s plans to raise the pension age in line with that of the private sector – In his words: “it’s unjustifiable to ask the taxpayer to work longer and pay more so that public sector workers can retire earlier and receive more”.

 

I bring this up as my missus has just qualified as a teacher and is slowly being brainwashed by her financially secure baby boomer colleagues with paid off mortgages and money in the bank. Last night she actually brought out the old “people became teachers because whilst the wages were low the pension was good”. Sorry but:

 

A- The country’s skint

B- Where in these teacher’s contracts doe’s it guarantee gold plated, recession proof busting pensions 9I only ask as in the Private Sector everything refers back to your contract

C- They get guaranteed wage rises every year, this year was the first year in 3 we did at my place (2%)

D- Striking will turn the public against them despite the undoubtedly amazing job they do

 

I am honestly seeing a savvy girl being brainwashed by the militant older teachers at her school. Fortunately I was able to make her see sense last night and I will continue to do so but I feel for other new members of the important public sector that don’t have an intelligent other at home to provide valuable balance to any argument.

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Having seen the lives of many friends and colleagues ruined by the economic crash a couple of years ago, the indignant attitude of the public sectors unions in the face of economic realisty makes my blood boil.

 

Even if they do have a reduced pension they have job security above far above and beyond sense and reason.... and they keep wanting more!

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I note from reading today’s Times that Public Sector Unions are up in arms at Danny Alexander’s plans to raise the pension age in line with that of the private sector – In his words: “it’s unjustifiable to ask the taxpayer to work longer and pay more so that public sector workers can retire earlier and receive more”.

 

I bring this up as my missus has just qualified as a teacher and is slowly being brainwashed by her financially secure baby boomer colleagues with paid off mortgages and money in the bank. Last night she actually brought out the old “people became teachers because whilst the wages were low the pension was good”. Sorry but:

 

A- The country’s skint

B- Where in these teacher’s contracts doe’s it guarantee gold plated, recession proof busting pensions 9I only ask as in the Private Sector everything refers back to your contract

C- They get guaranteed wage rises every year, this year was the first year in 3 we did at my place (2%)

D- Striking will turn the public against them despite the undoubtedly amazing job they do

 

I am honestly seeing a savvy girl being brainwashed by the militant older teachers at her school. Fortunately I was able to make her see sense last night and I will continue to do so but I feel for other new members of the important public sector that don’t have an intelligent other at home to provide valuable balance to any argument.

 

Good post, but may I point out one fatal error....?

 

You've posted this on the Saints Web forum expecting a reasoned debate....

 

One word: Doh!

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Us private sector workers have been hit big time but we have rolled up our sleaves got on with it and have been given an indiction of a pay rise soon to match the reduction i took last year. The public sector are realy starting to get on my wick. Most of them would not last long in the Private sector. I have worked with a few that have crossed over and they don't last very long. Constantly complainning about hrs, lunch breaks,always off ill and wanting more holidays etc.

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Us private sector workers have been hit big time but we have rolled up our sleaves got on with it and have been given an indiction of a pay rise soon to match the reduction i took last year. The public sector are realy starting to get on my wick. Most of them would not last long in the Private sector. I have worked with a few that have crossed over and they don't last very long. Constantly complainning about hrs, lunch breaks,always off ill and wanting more holidays etc.

 

That is complete and utter nonsense. I've worked in both, for massive multi-national companies right to Councils and Schools. There is just as much waste, bull**** and time wasting in the Private Sector, if not more. It's just nobody cares because in essence, it isn't wasting taxpayers money.

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That is complete and utter nonsense. I've worked in both, for massive multi-national companies right to Councils and Schools. There is just as much waste, bull**** and time wasting in the Private Sector, if not more. It's just nobody cares because in essence, it isn't wasting taxpayers money.

 

But unlike the public sectors, there are companies that have gone to the wall for exactly these reasons. In the public sector, this would be very unlikely.

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My Mrs is a midwife, so we have both sides of the coin in our house.

 

 

With my private sector pension, I had to increase my contributions from 6% to 10% to keep the same benefits 1/60th of my final salary for every year I've worked there.

 

When I joined the Company 10 years ago, those were the terms I was offered. Luckily, they have stuck to it so far, but it is now closed to all new employees, who are now in a defined contribution one.

 

I didn't strike, I didn't march in London, I just got on with it. Why can't Public sector employees be brought into line . Increased contributions for existing pensions, and defined contribution scheme for new employees?

 

I was luckier than most, a lot of Companies have closed down their final salary pensions, frozen the benefits and switched people to a defined scheme. Some have watered it down to an average salary instead of final salary.

 

Public sector workers need to wake up and smell the coffee. They have better pension's and more security, than most people who pay their wages. If anyone should be complaining it is the mug tax payers.

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With respect, nobody would probably care if you went on strike, as it's unlikely to affect 99% of people. Binmen, Teachers, Nurses, Fireman etc can strike, and it can have an impact because of the numbers it affects. It might not be right, but it's true.

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The simple fact of the matter is, that in the medium to long term, final / career average salary pensions are finished. As more people live longer, it becomes more unsustainable under the present rules.

 

Is it unfair to change someone's pension have way through, yes it is. Is it unavoidable, yes it is. What other choice is there.

 

I was in the US a month or so ago and they have the same issue. Two states are currently trying to reduce pension payments to people who have already retired - at least haven't reached that stage yet.

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The general public are starting to get pretty fed up with the Public workers now. Any major distruptions are just going to cause more resentment. Waste is indemic in the Public sector, i was untill recently involved in the Schools projects that got canned, the meetings were a joke, from the Private sector we would have approx 3 to 4 of us (Project Managers,QS and CDM etc) The public sector would turn up in their droves and we could easly have 20 of them in the meeting. Most of these guys and girls did not have a clue about budgets and time scales and just turned up at site meetings to make a milage claim and have a jolly out of the office.

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With respect, nobody would probably care if you went on strike, as it's unlikely to affect 99% of people. Binmen, Teachers, Nurses, Fireman etc can strike, and it can have an impact because of the numbers it affects. It might not be right, but it's true.

 

Quite. They shouldn't expact any sympathy though. I believe 'distain' is the more appropriate term.

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With respect, nobody would probably care if you went on strike, as it's unlikely to affect 99% of people. Binmen, Teachers, Nurses, Fireman etc can strike, and it can have an impact because of the numbers it affects. It might not be right, but it's true.

 

Very true, my missus said last night how she was told what an impact it would have if teachers went on strike “would actually bring the country to a standstill”. Declining the invitation to explode, I held it together and counted to 5 before giving her the inalogy of my workplace – two of my team will have to be off to look after their kids, dropping our productivity by 40% and effecting their (and as their manager, my) pay levels (and in turn tax they pay to the exchequer) and our profits as a business. This would make the country even skinter – cheers!

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A- The country’s skint - Bailing out those bastions of the Private Sector, the banks, didn't help, and we can still start a war in Libya. Also, in the main the Public Sector pensions, other than the Civil Service, are funded from employee contributions and investment of the funds, the Government's only involvement is paying the contracted employers' contributions.

B- Where in these teacher’s contracts doe’s it guarantee gold plated, recession proof busting pensions 9I only ask as in the Private Sector everything refers back to your contract - The pension is part of the Ts & Cs when you take up your position, though you can, of course, opt out.

C- They get guaranteed wage rises every year, this year was the first year in 3 we did at my place (2%) - Teachers may well get a rise, most Public Sector workers are in the 2nd year of a 3 year pay freeze ( with inflation @ 5% ), and many Local Authority workers have actually taken a real-terms cut this year, in my case nearly £2k.

D- Striking will turn the public against them despite the undoubtedly amazing job they do - My wife is a teacher and she supports the strike, but this actually puts her in the minority at her school.

 

Don't believe the propaganda ( from either side ), the negotiations are continuing, despite Danny Alexander's attempts to out right-wing the Tories.

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The general public are starting to get pretty fed up with the Public workers now. Any major distruptions are just going to cause more resentment. Waste is indemic in the Public sector, i was untill recently involved in the Schools projects that got canned, the meetings were a joke, from the Private sector we would have approx 3 to 4 of us (Project Managers,QS and CDM etc) The public sector would turn up in their droves and we could easly have 20 of them in the meeting. Most of these guys and girls did not have a clue about budgets and time scales and just turned up at site meetings to make a milage claim and have a jolly out of the office.

 

Nail. Head.

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Let's all get dry butt f**ked and accept it for the good of the country whilst the bankers still rake in the huge bonuses.

 

When the ATL are prepared to strike, the majority of who work a private schools, and a union that has never taken national action and isn't militant at all, people should question why.

 

Still, the rabid right have never really been able to think for themselves, hence ther need to read the Daily Mail.

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Still, the rabid right have never really been able to think for themselves, hence ther need to read the Daily Mail.

 

What a ridiculous thing to say. Why is it that Lefties portray themselves as radical thinkers and yet the right (according to them) get their views from the papers. I would have thought that thousands of public sector workers being led sheep like,into damaging national strikes by the militant brothers, are the ones that need to stop and think for themselves.

 

It’s not a left and right issue, it’s a public sector/private sector issue. The private sector are sick to death of the whining and whinging by public sector employees, who don't seem to appreciate how lucky they are.The whole protest stinks of self interest and if the public sector think they have the backing of the rest of the country they are sadly mistaken.

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What a ridiculous thing to say. Why is it that Lefties portray themselves as radical thinkers and yet the right (according to them) get their views from the papers. I would have thought that thousands of public sector workers being led sheep like,into damaging national strikes by the militant brothers, are the ones that need to stop and think for themselves.

 

It’s not a left and right issue, it’s a public sector/private sector issue. The private sector are sick to death of the whining and whinging by public sector employees, who don't seem to appreciate how lucky they are.The whole protest stinks of self interest and if the public sector think they have the backing of the rest of the country they are sadly mistaken.

 

Nutshell

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My only comment on the matter is this: Raise the age to 66, fine, one more year won't kill me (hopefully)

 

However, I WILL be walking out on the 30th because (and yes, it is selfish) I stand to lose a shed load of my pension in this 'reform'. I'm only 25, I will be teaching for another 41 years and I want a guarantee from the government that my endeavour on below average professional pay will be rewarded.

 

People need to remember, the public sector is being punished for a crisis we didn't cause.

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My only comment on the matter is this: Raise the age to 66, fine, one more year won't kill me (hopefully)

 

However, I WILL be walking out on the 30th because (and yes, it is selfish) I stand to lose a shed load of my pension in this 'reform'. I'm only 25, I will be teaching for another 41 years and I want a guarantee from the government that my endeavour on below average professional pay will be rewarded.

 

People need to remember, the public sector is being punished for a crisis we didn't cause.

 

Nail, head

 

Nutshell

 

etc,etc,etc

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I know you didn't TDD, but where is the solidarity? Your pension is protected and rightly so.

 

it is protected but the MoD (unlike yourself im guessing) changed it a few years ago for people......and they dont get as good a deal...no one said much then though..

 

2005 the change was...when the country/labour were spunking money everywhere..2 large wars and more cuts to the forces in real terms...

its all been great for us

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I note from reading today’s Times that Public Sector Unions are up in arms at Danny Alexander’s plans to raise the pension age in line with that of the private sector – In his words: “it’s unjustifiable to ask the taxpayer to work longer and pay more so that public sector workers can retire earlier and receive more”.

 

I bring this up as my missus has just qualified as a teacher and is slowly being brainwashed by her financially secure baby boomer colleagues with paid off mortgages and money in the bank. Last night she actually brought out the old “people became teachers because whilst the wages were low the pension was good”. Sorry but:

 

A- The country’s skint

B- Where in these teacher’s contracts doe’s it guarantee gold plated, recession proof busting pensions 9I only ask as in the Private Sector everything refers back to your contract

C- They get guaranteed wage rises every year, this year was the first year in 3 we did at my place (2%)

D- Striking will turn the public against them despite the undoubtedly amazing job they do

 

I am honestly seeing a savvy girl being brainwashed by the militant older teachers at her school. Fortunately I was able to make her see sense last night and I will continue to do so but I feel for other new members of the important public sector that don’t have an intelligent other at home to provide valuable balance to any argument.

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Point A - apparently.

Point B - Our Pensions are outlined by the TPS (Teacher Pension scheme). Why don't you read it?

Point C - Our wage rises have been suspended for at least two years.

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the public sector is being punished for a crisis we didn't cause.

 

Just like 99% of the private sector that suffered in the recession. The businesses that closed, the houses repossesed, the communities that had their hearts ripped out. For many thousands of people a reduced pension plan would be the least of their concerns.

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it is protected but the MoD (unlike yourself im guessing) changed it a few years ago for people......and they dont get as good a deal...no one said much then though..

 

2005 the change was...when the country/labour were spunking money everywhere..2 large wars and more cuts to the forces in real terms...

its all been great for us

 

Labour changed our pensions in 2007 (I think - either that or also in 05) but there was no fuss because they went through the proper union channels and negotiated. The Tories haven't even bothered, they've continued head long with their politically motivated dogma.

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Labour changed our pensions in 2007 (I think - either that or also in 05) but there was no fuss because they went through the proper union channels and negotiated. The Tories haven't even bothered, they've continued head long with their politically motivated dogma.

 

err, ok for you that have a union.....we had no choice...fair trade in 2005..? so many were against it but we just got on with it..all 200,000 of us..

so where was our voice heard...? nope none..but hey ho, we get on with it as we very much have a "can do" attitude...and we accept that it is against the law for us to strike....imagine if you faced the same law..

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All this "I didn't cause it" is a joke. Who do you want to pay the money back, the bankers? How do we manage that then, how do we get it all back off them?

 

Gordon Brown and Ed Balls?, who carried on spending when advised not to, how does that work, how do we get it all back off them?

 

My fathers generation didn't cause WW2, but they had to pay for it.

 

Perhaps shops should have 2 rates of VAT. 20% for us Private sector workers, and the old rate for the public sector workers, as they "didn't cause it".

 

It wasn't the bankers who decimated the private pension provisions for millions of workers it was Gordon Brown.Never mind though, as long as our children and their children and their children pay for the public sector pensions there will be no need for a strike.

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as long as our children and their children and their children pay for the public sector pensions there will be no need for a strike.

It's easy to over simplify the argument. The 2 primary issues are, as far as I can make out, that (1) the pension Ts&Cs are part of our contracts, and for those of us who entered public service 20 odd years ago were an accepted offset against demonstrably lower salaries as compared to the private sector. Now things may have changed in terms of whether there is a discrepancy between public & private now, but that was part of the decision making process when I started. (2) The unions are currently engaged in 'negotiations' with the Government, but the Government's position is that each of the points on which they unions are trying to hold talks have been declared by the "Ginger Rat" as non-negotiable.

 

Public Sector workers aren't the demons that the ConDems and the Daily Heil would have you believe. But neither are they willing to be taken for granted.

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I never realised the Private Sector had such massive chips on their shoulders. If you think it's so great, why don't you go and find out for yourself? Or would you miss the BUPA healthcare too much?

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Who's going to bite first? Bridge Too Far, Verbal or Saintandy666? It's too close to call IMHO

 

Why would I bite with my private-sector, index-linked, final-salary pension?

 

Trebles all round!

Edited by Verbal
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I never realised the Private Sector had such massive chips on their shoulders. If you think it's so great, why don't you go and find out for yourself? Or would you miss the BUPA healthcare too much?

 

I think you'll find it's the public sector who have the chip on their shoulder and don't want to shoulder any of the pain.

 

My pension scheme changed this year, we had "consultation" but the outcome was the same. My contributions from the company came down 5%!

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I think you'll find it's the public sector who have the chip on their shoulder and don't want to shoulder any of the pain.

!

What rot. As has previously been stated my direct experience over the last two years has been a £2K direct cut in salary, no pay rise for 3 years, and the section has had an overall staff cut of 20% ( 9 out of 45 ) as our contribution to a 28% cut in the organisation's budget..

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I never realised the Private Sector had such massive chips on their shoulders. If you think it's so great, why don't you go and find out for yourself? Or would you miss the BUPA healthcare too much?

 

Because we are all too busy trying to earn our companies enough money to pay for the bloated public sector.

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My heart bleeds for them.

 

If the Tories achieve one thing, and one thing only, I hope it is to sort out the balance between the public and private sector. The public sector is too big and too cushy. It's time that it was dragged into the real world.

 

They won't like it and they'll strike, but in the end it'll be a price worth paying to sort it out.

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I think you'll find it's the public sector who have the chip on their shoulder and don't want to shoulder any of the pain.

 

My pension scheme changed this year, we had "consultation" but the outcome was the same. My contributions from the company came down 5%!

 

Life's a *****! It obviously can't be that bad though, even with the 5% reduction in your pension, otherwise you'd be doing anything possible for a position in the Public Sector.

 

Of course it could be argued that it's Private Sector employee's with the chip on the shoulder, seeing as they enjoy inflated salaries, inflated benefits (healthcare, overtime, purchasing shares) then many of their Public Sector counterparts, yet they still begrudge them a half decent pension!

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What rot. As has previously been stated my direct experience over the last two years has been a £2K direct cut in salary, no pay rise for 3 years, and the section has had an overall staff cut of 20% ( 9 out of 45 ) as our contribution to a 28% cut in the organisation's budget..

 

I expect you were overpaid in the first place.

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What rot. As has previously been stated my direct experience over the last two years has been a £2K direct cut in salary, no pay rise for 3 years, and the section has had an overall staff cut of 20% ( 9 out of 45 ) as our contribution to a 28% cut in the organisation's budget..

 

LOL 20% during a recession, try 120 down to 50 (by my maths roughly 60%) here and no ones moaning, just working harder and longer...

 

Anyway, that's what we've all been through fella but none of us are striking, just quietly getting on with work thankful we've got work to be getting on with. Why don't you understand this? Oh, next Friday we are being presented our latest restructure (first since 2008) and more jobs will go, oh well, work hard, don't go sick and keep your chin up I say!

 

20% - we wish!

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LOL 20% during a recession, try 120 down to 50 (by my maths roughly 60%) here and no ones moaning, just working harder and longer...

Anyway, that's what we've all been through fella but none of us are striking, just quietly getting on with work thankful we've got work to be getting on with. Why don't you understand this? Oh, next Friday we are being presented our latest restructure (first since 2008) and more jobs will go, oh well, work hard, don't go sick and keep your chin up I say!

 

20% - we wish!

 

I bet the 70 who lost their jobs aren't so philosophical mind you!

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I WILL be walking out on the 30th because (and yes, it is selfish) I stand to lose a shed load of my pension in this 'reform'.

 

I lost a "shed load" of my private pension because of Gordon Clown's policies.....sounds like I should have downed tools and gone on strike....?

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I lost a "shed load" of my private pension because of Gordon Clown's policies.....sounds like I should have downed tools and gone on strike....?

 

Absolutely. If you aren't going to protect your own interests then who on earth is?

 

The Private Sector, the sector of the weak.

 

;)

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