This "slutwalk"

[Atticus Finch of Maycomb]

As you say, most victims are "dressed down." A lot are wearing trackies or very casual, unassuming clothes.

 

I was trying to figure out how you would know this, then I remembered that you were once 'outed' as a child kidnapper opn a previous thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.p ... ost1039342

 

So are you admitting to being a serial rapist too? Or did you come about this information another, more wholesome way?

[Essruu]

But if there are two women dressed "slutily" walking home together late at night and a single women dressed conservativly on her own, the one one her own is going to get raped isn't she. And the reason for this is that rape is non-consensual therefore rapists will chose the victim he is most likely to overcome. The issue of how the women are dressed is just clouding the issue.

 

Not necessarily. If I was the rapist, I'd want there to be a bit of a challenge and a struggle. A lone, conservatively dressed female who you could easily overcome wouldn't be as much fun as a tussle with one of the other two while her mate looked on crying. Plus the lone female might be a bit ugly and by doing one of the pair, at least you'd get to choose the best looking one.

[jjsaint]

I have understood that many attackers (not just sex attackers) will choose their victims by physical demeanour. Therefore a confident-looking woman is much less likely to be attacked than a woman walking with her head down. Dress may have less to do with it.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

You get the attention you dress for.

[bridge too far]

You get the attention you dress for.

 

So - if a man walks into a bar wearing tight jeans and a T shirt to show off a fit body, he only has himself to blame if he's raped by another bloke in an alleyway next to the pub?

[revolution saint]

So - if a man walks into a bar wearing tight jeans and a T shirt to show off a fit body, he only has himself to blame if he's raped by another bloke in an alleyway next to the pub?

 

That started off as a promising joke but tailed off towards the end.

[benjii]

So - if a man walks into a bar wearing tight jeans and a T shirt to show off a fit body, he only has himself to blame if he's raped by another bloke in an alleyway next to the pub?

 

Why's he hanging around in an alleyway? If he's doing that then he is certainly contributing in part, yes.

[Essruu]

Why's he hanging around in an alleyway? If he's doing that then he is certainly contributing in part, yes.

 

I bet he'd even lubed his arse up as well. The slut was asking for it.

[Saintandy666]

A lot of people think that people who dress sluttily deserve to be raped? And this walk is going to change their mind?

 

Yes, I have heard so many people over the years tell girls to cover up or they will be sexually assaulted.

 

No, but it brings attention to an issue and gets people talking.

[Barney Trubble]

So - if a man walks into a bar wearing tight jeans and a T shirt to show off a fit body, he only has himself to blame if he's raped by another bloke in an alleyway next to the pub?

 

What colour was his handkerchief? A lot of men who are dressed,as you describe, tend to be up for it. I think they call it 'play-rape'. Basically, he pretends he doesn't want it, but get's his bowels busted by a fellow sexual deviant and then they have a pint.

 

Male in tight Jeans+fit body+alleyway= Build up to the main course, it's foreplay in a sexual deviants mind.

[bridge too far]

Isn't it a shame that a sensible discussion about a serious matter has descended into infantile comments.

[lumuah]

What would Ken Clarke say about this?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

 

Now, I will start off by saying (although I suppose it should be assumed!) that rape is NEVER acceptable. However, these women going on marches seem to think it's as simple as "men shouldn't rape". In an ideal world, of course they are right. But this will never be an ideal world.

 

The chant was "blame the rapist not the victim, doesn't matter what I'm dressed in". Thing is, it really isn't that straight forward. Men will ALWAYS be sexual predators. It is nature, and men will always be more visually attracted to women than the other way round.

 

So, I suppose what I'm getting at is, by dressing in short skirts or having your rack on show....it WILL always increase your chances of the worst happening, because there will always be men that can't control their urges, sadly. That does not make rape in anyway acceptable, BUT I don't think it would do these women on "slutwalks" any harm to atleast acknowledge that dressing in a more revealing way will, rightly or wrongly, increase the chance of rape (and I can't see that changing)....... making all these marches quite pointless.

 

IMO

 

It's not rape, it's surprise sex, and everyone loves a surprise.

[revolution saint]

Isn't it a shame that a sensible discussion about a serious matter has descended into infantile comments.

 

I think it's probably because there's actually no argument here. I don't think apart from the OP that anyone believes how you dress should or does affect the chance of getting raped.

[Special K]

So - if a man walks into a bar wearing tight jeans and a T shirt to show off a fit body, he only has himself to blame if he's raped by another bloke in an alleyway next to the pub?

 

No, but he has only himself to blame if he gets hassled by cock hungry 50+ women who are gagging for a bit before the old growler dries up.

[Thedelldays]

Isn't it a shame that a sensible discussion about a serious matter has descended into infantile comments.

 

Discussion about what exactly?

[bridge too far]

Discussion about what exactly?

 

Read the thread, sunshine. Read the thread.

 

[benjii]

Isn't it a shame that a sensible discussion about a serious matter has descended into infantile comments.

 

Sorry, the original post was about the "Slutwalk" which is neither sensible nor serious.

[bridge too far]

Sorry, the original post was about the "Slutwalk" which is neither sensible nor serious.

 

That's your opinion, to which you're entitled of course. There was a lot of sensible discussion on the tangential argument about whether or not what women wear makes them more susceptible to rape.

[Window Cleaner]

Hmmmm reminds me of a conversation between Jal and Michelle

 

 

"You play the clarinet,I look ****gable, it's pure talent girl, pure talent""

[Thedelldays]

That's your opinion, to which you're entitled of course. There was a lot of sensible discussion on the tangential argument about whether or not what women wear makes them more susceptible to rape.

 

you seem to be after a bit of verbal fisty cuffs....I cant think anyone would disagree with you that women should not be raped (or a man for that matter) and definately not for the clothes they have on.......

 

there we go

[bridge too far]

you seem to be after a bit of verbal fisty cuffs....I cant think anyone would disagree with you that women should not be raped (or a man for that matter) and definately not for the clothes they have on.......

 

there we go

 

But the Canadian policeman who sparked the whole protest obviously did

 

"The protest movement was sparked by a Canadian policeman who advised students to "avoid dressing like sluts" to avoid being victimised"

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

[Thedelldays]

But the Canadian policeman who sparked the whole protest obviously did

 

"The protest movement was sparked by a Canadian policeman who advised students to "avoid dressing like sluts" to avoid being victimised"

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

well, that is 1 person in 6 billion.....great point to spark a debate

[revolution saint]

But the Canadian policeman who sparked the whole protest obviously did

 

"The protest movement was sparked by a Canadian policeman who advised students to "avoid dressing like sluts" to avoid being victimised"

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

 

But no one is actually putting up a defence of this are they? It's clearly and obviously a stupid claim - in fact this could be the only time when pretty much everyone is in agreement. I'll gladly debate anyone who thinks otherwise but it won't take long.

[bridge too far]

well, that is 1 person in 6 billion.....great point to spark a debate

 

I didn't spark the debate. However, like many on here, I put in my five pence worth in the interests of sensible discussion. Sadly, some chose to trivialise the whole subject.

[Thedelldays]

I didn't spark the debate. However, like many on here, I put in my five pence worth in the interests of sensible discussion. Sadly, some chose to trivialise the whole subject.

 

discussion about what...no one wants to discuss it really as there is nothing to discuss..we all agree

[Griffo]

The second one, and probably by her husband.

 

:lol:

[bridge too far]

discussion about what...no one wants to discuss it really as there is nothing to discuss..we all agree

 

So have a go at the OP and not me then!

[revolution saint]

So have a go at the OP and not me then!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

 

Now, I will start off by saying (although I suppose it should be assumed!) that rape is NEVER acceptable. However, these women going on marches seem to think it's as simple as "men shouldn't rape". In an ideal world, of course they are right. But this will never be an ideal world.

 

The chant was "blame the rapist not the victim, doesn't matter what I'm dressed in". Thing is, it really isn't that straight forward. Men will ALWAYS be sexual predators. It is nature, and men will always be more visually attracted to women than the other way round.

 

So, I suppose what I'm getting at is, by dressing in short skirts or having your rack on show....it WILL always increase your chances of the worst happening, because there will always be men that can't control their urges, sadly. That does not make rape in anyway acceptable, BUT I don't think it would do these women on "slutwalks" any harm to atleast acknowledge that dressing in a more revealing way will, rightly or wrongly, increase the chance of rape (and I can't see that changing)....... making all these marches quite pointless.

 

IMO

 

No, sorry, but what you wear doesn't predicate the likelihood of being raped and there are no published facts to suggest they do.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Surely when it comes to "date rape" then what you wear and how you act makes a difference. If you turn up to meet a bird for a date and she's wearing a low cut top, a micro skirt and no knickers, you'll start thinking "I'm in here". If she's then all over you all night, then most blokes would assume she's up for it. This doesn't mean that you have a right to rape her, but surely she should take some responsibility for her behaviour.There are parts of big cities that you shouldn't go walking around wearing expensive clothes, flashing the cash. You dont asked to be mugged, but when you are, most people would ask what on earth you were doing acting like that.

[aintforever]

No, sorry, but what you wear doesn't predicate the likelihood of being raped and there are no published facts to suggest they do.

 

Is there any to suggest they don't?

[hypochondriac]

Yes, I have heard so many people over the years tell girls to cover up or they will be sexually assaulted.

 

No, but it brings attention to an issue and gets people talking.

 

Well yes probably because (and I don't know any figures) women who wear almost nothing put themselves at higher risk of sexual assault. That is not the same as believing they deserved it because they were dressed that way though.

[Barney Trubble]

There can be no excuse for rape, but as men and women, humans are a pretty sick and disturbed species.

 

I remember being told once that "sickness is in us all" and that was by a senior psychologist/psychiatrist at a place I used to work. She said that we all have an 'other side', we sometimes only think the sick thoughts and the vast majority of us understand that the thoughts are sick or wrong and we never act upon them, or can control them. However, if these thoughts are not managed by us internally, then they can manifest and could be acted upon, if the right circumstances were to conspire on an individual.

 

Escapism is normal for most of us, we have perverted thoughts from time to time, based on a number of factors. Fortunately, the vast majority realise that it's escapism and not normal behaviour. A lot of women have fantasies about being raped, that is not me trying to be shocking, it's a quite common fantasy in women, but they would not want that in reality, it goes back to the escapism again.

 

We all have to accept responsibility for our conduct, men have no right to rape a women/man, but if a women wishes to dress in a manner likely to bring her unwanted attention, then there has to be some acceptance that the way she dresses made her a target. That's not right, but it's a simple measure of risk, and asking yourself if you are dressed to a social norm, if you wore a short skirt, black stockings [Cuban heels are my favourite with the ladies ;D], suspenders and a nice pair of heels to get a bottle of milk from the off license, then you are going to stand out and target yourself to a predator, but nobody would bat an eyelid at a lingerie show, that would be par course.

 

It doesn't make it right and we all should be free to wear what we want, or don't want to. However, the streets are littered with potential sickos who think that this gives them license to force themselves upon others, as in their sick mind, YOU asked for it!

[scott_saints]

No, sorry, but what you wear doesn't predicate the likelihood of being raped and there are no published facts to suggest they do.

I'm sure there are stats that prove it. I am also sure that there are stats that disprove it.

 

However, being male my theory tends to be this: (a basic example)...

Two women in the wrong place at the wrong time. One dressed like a "slut". The other one isn't.

Due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, there are some male wrong'uns around.

Now, men are visually sexually attracted to women, yes? Due to being visually sexually attracted to women, this means that the woman with more on show is more appealing (assuming she isn't an absolute mutt, of course).

 

The woman dressed like a slut is now in the wrong place at the wrong time, and has gained the attention of a male wrong'un moreso than the other lady. Surely the CHANCE isn't equal for both of them?

[aintforever]

There can be no excuse for rape, but as men and women, humans are a pretty sick and disturbed species.

 

Animals rape all the time. We've just got a new male rabbit and he's ****ged the female one all over the place despite obviously being not up for it having been spayed. ****ged her face and everything.

 

Humans are just highly evolved monkeys, the vast majority of which manage to keep their natural urges under control.

[scott_saints]

****ged her face and everything.

 

[bridge too far]

I think one or two of you need to be careful that you're not seen to be 'excusing' rape because I'm sure you don't mean that to be so.

 

I can see that this might be interpreted as portraying the poor male, who can't control himself, as being the victim rather than the woman (or man) and I'm sure none of you would want that.

[benjii]

There is a difference between cuplability and contributory stupidity/negligence.

 

Clearly, if you are raped you are not the perpetrator and you are not culpable. If, however, your actions have contributed to the rape then you may be stupid or reckless. Clearly, at the extreme scale of rape (ie. some weirdo lurking in a bush and jumping on a passer-by) there is minimal contribution. At the less severe end of the rape spectrum you might have the situation where some slut gets off her head and goes to bed with someone and later claims she didn't consent to sex. Clearly she has contributed quite significantly to the situation (although she is not culpable of anything).

 

At best, this walk is a harmless but misguided protest. At worst it gives the dangerous and wrong message that women can act as provocatively and irresponsibly as they like regardless of whether that is reckless or sensible.

[hypochondriac]

I think one or two of you need to be careful that you're not seen to be 'excusing' rape because I'm sure you don't mean that to be so.

 

I can see that this might be interpreted as portraying the poor male, who can't control himself, as being the victim rather than the woman (or man) and I'm sure none of you would want that.

 

No one is stupid enough to think that or to take that as an inference from what anyone was saying.

[hypochondriac]

There is a difference between cuplability and contributory stupidity/negligence.

 

Clearly, if you are raped you are not the perpetrator and you are not culpable. If, however, your actions have contributed to the rape then you may be stupid or reckless. Clearly, at the extreme scale of rape (ie. some weirdo lurking in a bush and jumping on a passer-by) there is minimal contribution. At the less severe end of the rape spectrum you might have the situation where some slut gets off her head and goes to bed with someone and later claims she didn't consent to sex. Clearly she has contributed quite significantly to the situation (although she is not culpable of anything).

 

At best, this walk is a harmless but misguided protest. At worst it gives the dangerous and wrong message that women can act as provocatively and irresponsibly as they like regardless of whether that is reckless or sensible.

 

Good post. This especially is very true. It's a totally pointless 'march.'

[bridge too far]

Good post. This especially is very true. It's a totally pointless 'march.'

 

But can you not see that some women feel they ARE being blamed for being raped because of what they wear? Do you not want your wife / partner to look attractive so that other men think 'lucky bugger'? For ever and a day women are encouraged to look sexy and appealing and then get the blame if that causes them to be attacked.

 

No one tells men that they shouldn't dress in a way likely to lead to assault.

[Thedelldays]

But can you not see that some women feel they ARE being blamed for being raped because of what they wear? Do you not want your wife / partner to look attractive so that other men think 'lucky bugger'? For ever and a day women are encouraged to look sexy and appealing and then get the blame if that causes them to be attacked.

 

No one tells men that they shouldn't dress in a way likely to lead to assault.

why do dads (and mums) tell their 18 year olds or what ever to "cover up" when they go out whilst under their house..?

[LGTL]

why do dads (and mums) tell their 18 year olds or what ever to "cover up" when they go out whilst under their house..?

 

Adding to this, would you (BTF) have let your daughter out at 16/17 looking like a complete slag?

[bridge too far]

Adding to this, would you (BTF) have let your daughter out at 16/17 looking like a complete slag?

 

It's not a question of 'would I have let' as both daughters wouldn't have done so anyway. If they'd wanted to? I probably would have advised them that they were sending out the wrong signals because a (very) few men resort to animal behaviour. But at 16 or 17 they would have made their own decisions.

 

You see, I was watching some pop video this morning. Remember I used to be a cabaret dancer so I'm well used to the idea of not wearing very much. The girl singer in the video was wearing far, far less than I did when I was dancing. And what happens? Blokes go 'phwoar' and some young girls think that's the way to dress to get the attention of men. They're almost expected to dress provocatively if they want to get a boyfriend. Girls invariably dress to please their men rather than themselves.

 

If they dress down, they're called fuddy-duddies or lesbians or other such derogatory names. And believe me, no young girl likes to be thought of as unattractive. They just have poor role models these days.

 

But I still maintain, and I think this is borne out by facts, that rape isn't actually about sex. It's about power and revenge - hence the reason why we hear a lot about old ladies being raped.

[aintforever]

But can you not see that some women feel they ARE being blamed for being raped because of what they wear? Do you not want your wife / partner to look attractive so that other men think 'lucky bugger'? For ever and a day women are encouraged to look sexy and appealing and then get the blame if that causes them to be attacked.

 

No one tells men that they shouldn't dress in a way likely to lead to assault.

 

Are they being blamed though? I thought all this was about some Canadian copper advising some students to "avoid dressing like sluts".

 

Why would a policeman give that advice if dressing like sluts made no difference?

[scott_saints]

But I still maintain, and I think this is borne out by facts, that rape isn't actually about sex. It's about power and revenge - hence the reason why we hear a lot about old ladies being raped.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that. Maybe MOST rapes are about power and revenge. But, rape for sex does happen.

[bridge too far]

Are they being blamed though? I thought all this was about some Canadian copper advising some students to "avoid dressing like sluts".

 

Why would a policeman give that advice if dressing like sluts made no difference?

 

Maybe he had some issues.

[revolution saint]

Most rape is by someone the victim knows, and a high percentage of that is by family members, so for the majority of rape victims it really doesn't matter what they are wearing on any given day.

[sadoldgit]

I was trying to figure out how you would know this, then I remembered that you were once 'outed' as a child kidnapper opn a previous thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.p ... ost1039342

 

So are you admitting to being a serial rapist too? Or did you come about this information another, more wholesome way?

 

If you had been following the thread you would know that I work in the CPS and see the case files every day.

[Jonnyboy]

Are they being blamed though? I thought all this was about some Canadian copper advising some students to "avoid dressing like sluts".

 

Why would a policeman give that advice if dressing like sluts made no difference?[/QUOTE]

 

cos they were an ignorant redneck?