Grave lengths

[dune]

I'm currently in dispute with the parish council and am in no mood to back down. I've just been down to the cemetary, after a heated argument on the phone, and a councillor informed me that the distance (length) between graves is 101" but then I measured another row and they were 115". I'm not happy because someone has put a cremation stone in "no mans land" at the feet of my father. He thought he'd won the arghument until I measured graves in another row and then he got quite agitated. I've now asked for the official council length and that the matter be raised at the next parish meeting which I will attend. He tried saying grave yards are not dead accurate and said who cares when you're dead to which I replied that he should care or he shouldn't be on the council.

 

Does anyone know if there is a set measure or not?

Edited 8 June, 2011 by dune

[Jonnyboy]

I'm currently in dispute with the parish council and am in no mood to back down. I've just been down to the cemetary, after a heated argument on the phone, and a councillor informed me that the distance (length) between graves is 101" but then I measured another row and they were 115". I'm not happy because someone has put a cremation stone in "no mans land" at the feet of my father. He thought he'd won the arghument until I measured graves in another row and then he got quite agitated. I've now asked for the official council length and that the matter be raised at the next parish meeting which I will attend. He tried saying grave yards are not dead accurate and said who cares when you're dead to which I replied that he should care or he shouldn't be on the council.

 

Does anyone know if there is a set measure or not?

 

nice pun

[badgerx16]

Your local council should publish their Cemetery Regulations on their website, just try GOOGLEing that phrase to find examples.

 

Did you speak to a Councillor, who generally know bugger all about rules and regs but will make things up to sound as if they do, ( little big man syndrome ), or to an officer in the Cems and Crems Department, who should give you a straight answer.

Edited 8 June, 2011 by badgerx16

[pilsburydoughboy]

There is no standard or set measurements. Every local authority will be different but will have sold you a plot with certain measurements.

When purchasing the burial plot the measurements will have been given.

[dune]

Your local council should publish their Cemetery Regulations on their website, just try GOOGLEing that phrase to find examples.

 

Did you speak to a Councillor, who generally know bugger all about rules and regs but will make things up to sound as if they do, ( little big man syndrome ), or to an officer in the Cems and Crems Department, who should give you a straight answer.

 

It's a parish council, as oposed to a town or city council, so doesn't have much information on the website. I knew he was trying to waffle his way out of it because he got quite rude when I got down to the specifics. I have asked for the set measurements. My suspician is that the councillor I spoke to (who was until recently chairman of the parish council) told the grave digger to cram a few more in by reducing the size of the plots. I intend to contact the grave digger and to ask him why the plot size (length) has been reduced by 14" because grave diggers are professional people and do not take it upon themselves to dig holes as they see fit - he must have been instructed to reduce the size - and my suspician is that it was the ex chairman of the council who instructed him to do so. If and when I get to the bottom of this there is going to be fireworks at the next council meeting because it's not for councillors to make decisions off their own back and the said councillor has already rubbed me up the wrong way over a footpath dispute. He told someone it'd be ok to gate off a footpath a while back and myself and others kicked off about it and he ended up resigning as chairman so we have a bit of history and I don't like his attitude. At the council meeting on this matter it was decided that the gate was not legal and it was supposed to have been removed. However it hasn't and has since then been permanently left open. The said footpath has been a public right of way dating back to the middle ages and when i'm at the next meeting to let rip over the burial ground I will also want to know why the council have not had the gate completely removed.

[dune]

There is no standard or set measurements. Every local authority will be different but will have sold you a plot with certain measurements.

When purchasing the burial plot the measurements will have been given.

 

Thankyou. As stated I have asked for set dimensions, but will also check the documentation for the plot.

[dune]

Right, a couple of updates.

 

I sent several emails to the clerk of the council who told me she'd passed them on to the chairman. I received no reply from the chairman so today phoned him up and he said he'd not recieved my email and requests therein. I have just personally delivered them to him.

 

He said the discrepency in size was nothing much (15 inches is nothing much to him) and that it's fault of the grave digger who made them smaller and tha there is no conspiracy to cram more people in.

 

I told him to his face that a grave digger is a professional at what he does. A professional hedge layer doesn't start a hedge at 5 foot at one end and finnish at 4 foot at the other end.

 

I then requested that when I go to the meeting I want it on the agenda and minuted as requested about a month ago. He suggested that it was discussed before the meeting... I smelt a rat. I then demanded it was minuted - can I demand this?

 

Anyway i've just got the phone number of the grave digger (which he said he didn't have nor know who the grave digger was - yeah right) and asked him whether he would reduce a plot size off his own back and explained that he was getting the blame. He told me that a parish councillor lays out the plot and he digs it and that he would not tae it upon himself to reduce a plot size especially by 14 or 15 inches.

 

So now I need your advice. How best to tackle the meeting?

 

I'm thinking get them to blame the grave digger and let them waffle on for a bit and then reveal that i've spoken to the grave digger and ask them whether it's true that a councillor las out the plot.

 

Any suggestions of how best to get them to drop themselves in it?

[Micky]

As has been suggested before - I think you need to check the documentation (if any exists) for the plot that you bought. Given the relative small size of said plot, if it has been encroached by 14 inches they probably have a case to answer.

 

If the meeting that you refer to is an official council meeting, then I see no reason why you cannot request that it be made an agenda point. If they refuse, then obviously you can still try to raise the issue during the AOB session at the end of the meeting.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be going with the intent to drop anybody in it - I would be going with the intent of preserving my (your) fathers resting place. If documentation was issued at the time the plot was aquired - you need to find it and refer to it.

[dune]

As has been suggested before - I think you need to check the documentation (if any exists) for the plot that you bought. Given the relative small size of said plot, if it has been encroached by 14 inches they probably have a case to answer.

 

If the meeting that you refer to is an official council meeting, then I see no reason why you cannot request that it be made an agenda point. If they refuse, then obviously you can still try to raise the issue during the AOB session at the end of the meeting.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be going with the intent to drop anybody in it - I would be going with the intent of preserving my (your) fathers resting place. If documentation was issued at the time the plot was aquired - you need to find it and refer to it.

 

There's nothing about the plot size on the documentation, however there is a burial ground map that was discussed in the minutes in 2004 which i requested in the email that disapreared which i've just delivered.

 

As for dropping people in it they were quick enough to blame the grave digger which is bang out of order and a case of dumping the blame on the little man so I have nothing tugging at my conscience in this respect.

 

If they'd held their hands up and admitted that a councillor undemocratically took it upon himself to cram a few more graves in and apologised i'd have accepted this and just told them to make sure that they don't do it again and start the next row with a decent and respectful plot, but they didn't so i'm not going to back down. They seem to do as they like and act like feudal lords of the manor.

[Johnny Bognor]

There's nothing about the plot size on the documentation, however there is a burial ground map that was discussed in the minutes in 2004 which i requested in the email that disapreared which i've just delivered.

 

As for dropping people in it they were quick enough to blame the grave digger which is bang out of order and a case of dumping the blame on the little man so I have nothing tugging at my conscience in this respect.

 

If they'd held their hands up and admitted that a councillor undemocratically took it upon himself to cram a few more graves in and apologised i'd have accepted this and just told them to make sure that they don't do it again and start the next row with a decent and respectful plot, but they didn't so i'm not going to back down. They seem to do as they like and act like feudal lords of the manor.

 

I know what you mean. I am doing battle with my parish council chairman. She has been canvassing opposition to an amendment to a planning application.

[hamster]

the lengths some people will go to make a point!

 

Or should that be a ? ?

 

Dune, seriously mate, I would be livid too.

[dune]

Delete.

 

reason - i'm a bit p[ssed.

Edited 26 July, 2011 by dune

[hutch]

I have the unenviable task of lowering the coffin of one of our "adopted" babies into her grave on Friday. She was 2½ months old. I won't take my measuring tape with me.

[dune]

I have the unenviable task of lowering the coffin of one of our "adopted" babies into her grave on Friday. She was 2½ months old. I won't take my measuring tape with me.

 

Im sorry to hear that mate.

[Kingsland Codger]

As Micky above suggests, you need to prioritise what you are trying to achieve. An admission from the Parish Council that they have erred? Followed by an apology?

 

Or another row with the Parish Council (and specifically the ex-chairman with whom you have difficulties)?

 

Or to have your father's resting place treated with more respect than currently?

 

Whatever it is, you clearly have the moral high ground and the Parish Council need to be reminded that a cemetery is exactly that; a place where the living bury their loved ones and where they can make visits to mourn and to remember. The Parish Council also need to be reminded a cemetery is not a profit-making opportunity.

 

Dealt with correctly they should be made to feel utterly ashamed.

 

But if you make it a personal battle between yourself and the ex-chairman you lose the moral high ground and the Parish Council are likely to close ranks.

 

Try not to let emotions get on top of you (extremely difficult as you are dealing with a highly emotional topic) and keep the Parish Council focused on the concept of 'Rest In Peace' as this is a concept everyone (even awkward parish councillors with little man syndrome) can understand.

 

And to hutch - sincerest condolences and all best wishes for Friday.