Looks like Chamberlain's off then

[Viking Warrior]

Oh well if it's true another youngster who will soon find out the grass is not greener on the other side I thought he had a bit more sense and would have stayed with us for this season at least but clearly he is being wrongly advised. I hope he enjoys second string football and no doubt will be loaned out to another club lower in standard than saints . I hope it's untrue but I think his father likes the idea of having a son who is earning mega bucks. I still think walcott went to early but then he only has flashes of brilliance and is injury prone. the boy next door image of theo has long disappeared.

As someone has already said if Alex wants off the bus do not wait for the next bus stop. Just stop the bus and kick him off and let him join puncheon. I hope its not true but his father has a lot to answer for. especially those fans that had a go at him at the recent triangular match.

[The Kraken]

I and a few other people saw Chamberlain in the Chapel end car park about twenty minutes after the game on Saturday. A woman asked him if he was staying, to which he replied 'I don't know yet' then a guy said 'I can't blame you for going' to which he replied 'thanks', I then said to him, 'I hope we see you in a Saints shirt again soon' and didn't get a reply from him. Make of that what you will. I think I would rather see a Saints team this season with him in it, than to have a few more million just sitting in a bank, having not been able to find an even half decent replacement and think his development is better served with us playing a match every week, than with Wenger only giving him a game once a month.

 

So you're writing off Steve de Ridder already?!

[SaintRichmond]

So you're writing off Steve de Ridder already?!

 

Adkins wasn't playing de Ridder in AOC's position v Leeds

 

Against WBA he looked sharp and impressive, (played on the wing ) ........ he didn't look the same player v Leeds, playing inside, IMHO

[Saint Lindford]

I can't agree with that sentiment entirely. It would be nice to keep him, but if the lad wants to go, then I wish him well. I think he has some family issues, which is tough on a kid. I'm just happy that if he goes, we get decent cash. If he stays, we keep a great prospect. Either way, we will have a good squad.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love him to stay and sure he would shine in the division but it seems as though he wants to go, whether that is the right decision for him no one knows. Clearly he has been influenced by someone or something, I wish him well if he goes.

[SaintRichmond]

He's a great talent, no doubt about it BUT we didnt miss him one bit at the end of last season with the run in we had, we didnt miss him Saturday, and as has already been stated on here he is not pivotal to the way we play.

 

De Ridder has not come here to warm the bench, we would not pay "a significant fee" as the OS worded it for him to be a reserve.

 

I think the Chamberlain's are missing a significant point or two in their obsession to make a few quid. One is that he hasn't played above League One standard yet and secondly by going to Arsenal he will be playing in the reserves every week, with maybe a bit part in the League Cup games. His development would be better served playing in the Championship every week and coming up against better defenders than he has been used to.

 

But thats up to them, if Daddy wants him to go and has convinced Alex that he should then fine, thanks and good luck son. But at least NC has ensured we get a good deal out of this and the money, I am convinced, will go straight back into new signings either now, in January or next close season.

 

IMHO, Mark C is only looking at £££ signs

 

If Arsenal, or anyone else for that matter are prepared to pay circa £12M, then it would be crazy to turn it down

 

AOC is good, but NOT £12M good IMHO

 

Let's face it, £12M would finance a Quality CB, AND a Quality Striker

 

If Cortese can conclude £12M for AOC, then, bring it on I say

 

It is obvious to me, IMHO, that Mark C will not be happy until he gets his 20 pieces of silver

[The Kraken]

Adkins wasn't playing de Ridder in AOC's position v Leeds

 

Against WBA he looked sharp and impressive, (played on the wing ) ........ he didn't look the same player v Leeds, playing inside, IMHO

 

I'm aware of that; but with only 5 subs on the bench (one a goalkeeper) there's not the possibility to have all options. De Ridder is primarily a winger but can also play up front, hence why he came on there against Leeds. Guly has played a number of games at right wing but it's largely accepted its not really his natural position. I fully expect to see De Ridder given the opportunity at right wing, particularly if Chambo does go.

[iansums]

It would certainly not be the end of the world if AOC left, far from it. However I do feel it will be a shame, not only for the club but for him aswell. He's only 18 FFS, he'll hardly get a kick playing for Arsenal, but could have one or two more good seasons in the NPC.

[Window Cleaner]

It would certainly not be the end of the world if AOC left, far from it. However I do feel it will be a shame, not only for the club but for him aswell. He's only 18 FFS, he'll hardly get a kick playing for Arsenal, but could have one or two more good seasons in the NPC.

 

he might well get a significant amount of game time at the Arse actually, with all their usual sick-notes already queuing up outside the treatment room, Nasri and Fabregas probably leaving, they'll be looking for a player who might just have a bit of impact 30 minutes from the end of each game. Who better than AOC for a knock down 7 million plus add-ons.

[sotonist]

Adkins wasn't playing de Ridder in AOC's position v Leeds

 

Against WBA he looked sharp and impressive, (played on the wing ) ........ he didn't look the same player v Leeds, playing inside, IMHO

Well then hopefully we sign a striker rather than a winger and Steve gets played on the wing.

 

I think we're battling against the reduction in subs anyway. Steve is clearly a versatile player, as is Jack Cork. they might have to play a bit out of position from time to time.

[skintsaint]

I still find it funny this 5 sub rule is ruining everything. Im sure 7 subs has only been round for two season?

[SaintRichmond]

It would certainly not be the end of the world if AOC left, far from it. However I do feel it will be a shame, not only for the club but for him aswell. He's only 18 FFS, he'll hardly get a kick playing for Arsenal, but could have one or two more good seasons in the NPC.

 

I know that, you know that, but, as I have posted, IMHO his dad (Mark) is only looking at £££££ signs

 

The only way that Alex will know that he'll be a little fish in a big pond at Arsenal, will be when he gets there, by which time it will be too late.

 

IMHO, His dad should be more responsible from a footballing point of view, but he won't

 

So, as far as I am concerned, Cortese should get the £12M ASAP

 

l

Edited 8 August, 2011 by SaintRichmond
delete word

[Dellman]

If he goes to Arsenal won't he be competing with Theo? If so Theo will be the loser because this guy is stronger and got more savvy but infact they'll both be losers because Arsenal are in decline and we'll win something before they do.

[The Kraken]

I know that, you know that, but, as I have posted, IMHO his dad (Mark) is only looking at £££££ signs

 

The only way that Alex will know that he'll be a little fish in a big pond at Arsenal, will be when he gets there, by which time it will be too late.

 

IMHO, His dad should be more responsible from a footballing point of view, but he won't

 

So, as far as I am concerned, Cortese should get the £12M ASAP

 

l

 

That's all very well, but it's only your opinion.

 

Take a look at what Chamberlain actually said in the two press articles he did earlier in the summer. He accepts that he won't be first team regular. He even stated that moving to Arsenal would almost be like starting again. But he said he wants to go there to work with a manager like Wenger and be around the top class players Arsenal have in their ranks, and work hard in practise, then take his chance when (finally) given it and show what he can do.

 

So he already knows he won't be first choice for some time if he does move. Yes, I'm sure there are financial considerations for moving. But he's still very young in terms of his footballing education; why shouldn't he choose to go to one of the best places for the development of young players we've seen in a long time?

[skintsaint]

Arsenal play a lot of youngsters...but who actually thinks many turn into world class players - I think that is why Arsenal are on a decline as they don't buy players like Bergkamp, Overmars etc anymore...

 

For every Fabregas there is a Bendter.....

[saintjay77]

If he goes to Arsenal won't he be competing with Theo? If so Theo will be the loser because this guy is stronger and got more savvy but infact they'll both be losers because Arsenal are in decline and we'll win something before they do.

 

I bet a girl at work that we will win the champions league before Arsenal will. Pretty safe bet I reckon, cause Arsenal wont get anywhere near it as long as they continue with their transfer policy and the way they play.

[Stu Man Do]

That's all very well, but it's only your opinion.

 

Take a look at what Chamberlain actually said in the two press articles he did earlier in the summer. He accepts that he won't be first team regular. He even stated that moving to Arsenal would almost be like starting again. But he said he wants to go there to work with a manager like Wenger and be around the top class players Arsenal have in their ranks, and work hard in practise, then take his chance when (finally) given it and show what he can do.

 

So he already knows he won't be first choice for some time if he does move. Yes, I'm sure there are financial considerations for moving. But he's still very young in terms of his footballing education; why shouldn't he choose to go to one of the best places for the development of young players we've seen in a long time?[/QUOTE]

 

The thing is are they really that good at developing young players? They play plenty of them but I wouldn't swap Chamberlain for Gibbs, Denilson et al. As for Wilshire ... an English player that can make a 10 yrd pass and the media are all over him like a rash. Imagine what they would make of OC if he does for them what hes done for us.

[saintjay77]

Arsenal play a lot of youngsters...but who actually thinks many turn into world class players - I think that is why Arsenal are on a decline as they don't buy players like Bergkamp, Overmars etc anymore...

 

For every Fabregas there is a Bendter.....

 

They seem to replace their best players with youth who hope that one day they will become the next best players. Slowly but surely the top class tallent at that club is getting less and less. If we were putting together a World team each year Arsenal would struggle to offer a current player right now. Previous years would of had players that would of walked into a world team.

 

If the likes of Berkamp and Henry were in the team I could understand youth wanting to train along side them. Theo thought he would be learning from Henry who then left for Barca. Chambo no doubt would love to train along side Theo, Nasri and Fabregas who are all pretty good but 2 of the 3 possibly have exit plans and the 3rd can be found more often in the treatment room. So who is Chambo going to be learning from then?

 

So to me it just looks like its £££ talking which is fair enough. If I was offered a stupid ammount of money to do the same job somewhere else I would be a fool not to consider it. I would argue that Chambo is already earning a stupid amount of money compared to most of us which makes it a little harder for us to understand. If he was to stay with us it wouldnt surprise me if his next contract would pay him each week what most of us earn in a year yet he would be moveing to Arsenal to earn even more!

 

Still nothing is on the OS yet so until it is then its all just speculation. While he is a saint he gets my full support. If he goes then good luck to him but I hope our team pass him on our way up and he has some regret in chasing the cash.

[trousers]

He's only 18 FFS

 

No, he's 17 years, 11 months and 24 days.

 

Yes! In before the MLG. Get in!

 

:-)

[Matthew Le God]

I still find it funny this 5 sub rule is ruining everything. Im sure 7 subs has only been round for two season?

 

In the Football League yes, it was only used for two years.

[MerceSaint28]

Massive shame to lose Chamberlain but he is not an indespensible player like Fonte/Lallana or Lambert to saints. We will be getting very good wedge for him and if we replace him with someone with bags of pace (like Matt Phillips from Blackpool) and use the cash on a top striker, i think we will come out stronger as a result.

[Viking Warrior]

does AOC speak french. he will need too to understand wenger

 

I remember steve williams going there and once he did his career went down hill fast. SW should have stayed at saints but players always think the grass is greener on the otherside.

 

mark chamberlains favourite song. money money money

[channonball]

Seems we are selling him cheap when you see some of the figures floating around the premiership at the moment. We will end up in a situation like Bale where we sell him for £7m and he is now worth £50m. A sell on clause is a must, and if Arsenal don't want that, they should have to overpay now e.g £20m.

 

The problem is, Arsenal are pretty much at the top of the pyramid and won't sell to Man U etc, so we'd be unlikely to ever benefit from a sell on clause.

 

If we wait a season now and he plays amazing he might be worth £20m by the end of the season anyway.

[The Kraken]

The thing is are they really that good at developing young players? They play plenty of them but I wouldn't swap Chamberlain for Gibbs, Denilson et al. As for Wilshire ... an English player that can make a 10 yrd pass and the media are all over him like a rash. Imagine what they would make of OC if he does for them what hes done for us.

 

If you're suggesting that Arsenal aren't good at developing players, then I'm just going to have to disagree. Whether they've brought players through from their youth system or brought them in at a fairly young age, they have proven over many years how good they are at developing players into top international players. Ashley Cole, Cesc Fabregas, Gael Clichy up to the likes of Wilshere, Gibbs and Ramsay now. Even young players like Diaby, Sagna and Song have been brought in, developed and improved. Even Thierry Henry credits Wenger with massively changing and improving the way he played the game.

 

So yes, I really do believe Arsenal are very good developing young players, whether it be from a very young age in their academy, through to young professionals with more to learn who have then gone on to perform well at Champions League level.

[iansums]

No, he's 17 years, 11 months and 24 days.

 

Yes! In before the MLG. Get in!

 

:-)

 

As I was typing (knowing full well it's his 18th birthday in a few days) I thought MLG would correct me, now you've gone and spoilt it you b*stard.

[gaz]

I'd love to know what he think's he'll benefit from by never playing a competitive match for the next 4 seasons like Theo did, effectively stalling his career. I'd have thought first team action is vital at that age, hence why loans to lower heague happen. He could stay here and play 3 times a month in the first team in a league which is widely reknown this year as being the closest in years.

 

I guess it must be the money.

[sotonist]

I still find it funny this 5 sub rule is ruining everything. Im sure 7 subs has only been round for two season?

And before the seven we had a greater instance of players playing out of position. A lot of the time whenever we brought on a sub a first teamer had to move out of his optimal position, so we we'd weakened ourselves in two positions. Two extra subs didn't completely stop that but it helped.

[The Kraken]

I'd love to know what he think's he'll benefit from by never playing a competitive match for the next 4 seasons like Theo did, effectively stalling his career. I'd have thought first team action is vital at that age, hence why loans to lower heague happen. He could stay here and play 3 times a month in the first team in a league which is widely reknown this year as being the closest in years.

 

I guess it must be the money.

 

If you think that Theo's career stalled by going there then you must be mad. He instantly got called up for the full England side, and went to a world cup. He's since gone on to become a player that has scared the life out of the best footballing club-side there has perhaps ever been, earning massive plaudits from their manager and players. He's also scored a hat-trick at international level and produced a number of excellent league and Champions League performances.

 

But yes, his career has stalled since he left us.

[trousers]

As I was typing (knowing full well it's his 18th birthday in a few days) I thought MLG would correct me, now you've gone and spoilt it you b*stard.

 

Humble apologies

[OldNick]

If you think that Theo's career stalled by going there then you must be mad. He instantly got called up for the full England side, and went to a world cup. He's since gone on to become a player that has scared the life out of the best footballing club-side there has perhaps ever been, earning massive plaudits from their manager and players. He's also scored a hat-trick at international level and produced a number of excellent league and Champions League performances.

 

But yes, his career has stalled since he left us.

compared to what he should be, he has stalled IMO

[The Kraken]

compared to what he should be, he has stalled IMO

 

Fair enough. I don't agree though, especially if you're saying he's at the same ability now as he was when with us.

[Matthew Le God]

If you think that Theo's career stalled by going there then you must be mad. He instantly got called up for the full England side, and went to a world cup. He's since gone on to become a player that has scared the life out of the best footballing club-side there has perhaps ever been, earning massive plaudits from their manager and players. He's also scored a hat-trick at international level and produced a number of excellent league and Champions League performances.

 

It took him a long time to become a regular at Arsenal. Had he stayed and Saints he would have had regular games. Yes, he is a regular for England and Arsenal now, but it is 5 years later. That doesn't mean his career didn't stall when he first moved.

 

Same applies to Gareth Bale, Spurs took ages to realise he was class, they very nearly sold him to Nottingham Forest.

[View From The Top]

he has stalled IMO

 

You are very odd.

[The Kraken]

It took him a long time to become a regular at Arsenal. Had he stayed and Saints he would have had regular games. Yes, he is a regular for England and Arsenal now, but it is 5 years later. That doesn't mean his career didn't stall when he first moved.

 

Same applies to Gareth Bale, Spurs took ages to realise he was class, they very nearly sold him to Nottingham Forest.

 

You don't necessarily need 40 odd first team games to progress. Particularly in the cases Bale and Walcott, they were still very young. Had they been through Arsenal's or tottenham's youth teams from 12, for instance, they perhaps still wouldn't have broken through until when they did. Purely because young talent has to be nurtured through at the highest level.. Not every player is like Wayne Rooney and capable of putting in consistently top performances at the highest level from 16 or 17 years of age. yes, they both looked very good at championship level, but stepping up to Arsenal or Tottenham is huge.

 

Development comes from games, yes, but mostly from coaching. Having a top coach like Wenger and being surrounded every day by top class, international players, will have a massive impact on a young player still learning the game. Playing every week (especially at a lower league level) really isn't the be all and end all.

[PokingFun]

That's all very well, but it's only your opinion.

 

Take a look at what Chamberlain actually said in the two press articles he did earlier in the summer. He accepts that he won't be first team regular. He even stated that moving to Arsenal would almost be like starting again. But he said he wants to go there to work with a manager like Wenger and be around the top class players Arsenal have in their ranks, and work hard in practise, then take his chance when (finally) given it and show what he can do.

 

So he already knows he won't be first choice for some time if he does move. Yes, I'm sure there are financial considerations for moving. But he's still very young in terms of his footballing education; why shouldn't he choose to go to one of the best places for the development of young players we've seen in a long time?

 

Very good post.

 

As Saints fans we all think AOC is better served playing for us because of our own selfish reasons. At the end of the day I am convinced he will improve more by training day in day out with top class performers.

 

People point to Theo and say his development was slowed by joining Arsenal but I totally disagree. Theo Walcott is a very good international standard player and I would be very surprised if he had made more progress by staying with Saints in the CCC at the time. It is too simple for people to say that AOC and his dad want the money. Of course the financials are important and I would be amazed if any person on this forum would turn down such a move if they were in his position.

 

If the lad moves on, wish him luck and we move on. Its as simple as that on the bus.

[Matthew Le God]

You don't necessarily need 40 odd first team games to progress. Particularly in the cases Bale and Walcott, they were still very young. Had they been through Arsenal's or tottenham's youth teams from 12, for instance, they perhaps still wouldn't have broken through until when they did. Purely because young talent has to be nurtured through at the highest level.. Not every player is like Wayne Rooney and capable of putting in consistently top performances at the highest level from 16 or 17 years of age. yes, they both looked very good at championship level, but stepping up to Arsenal or Tottenham is huge.

 

Development comes from games, yes, but mostly from coaching. Having a top coach like Wenger and being surrounded every day by top class, international players, will have a massive impact on a young player still learning the game. Playing every week (especially at a lower league level) really isn't the be all and end all.

 

Name some top current players in the world game that didn't get game time in their teenage years, either on loan or with their own club. You will find the majority played games.

 

No matter what Bale and Walcott did, coaching they had etc etc they would always have come good in the end. However both their career's stalled after their moves. It took them a long time to get going again. As highlighted by Spurs nearly selling Bale on the cheap to a Championship team as recently as 2009.

Edited 8 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[pap]

As highlighted by Spurs nearly selling Bale on the cheap to a Championship team as recently as November 2009.

 

I didn't about this. Who was in for him?

[Matthew Le God]

As highlighted by Spurs nearly selling Bale on the cheap to a Championship team as recently as 2009/10.

 

I didn't about this. Who was in for him?

 

Nottingham Forest. For a reported £3m in the 2009/10 season.

 

Saints sold him in 2007 for £10m and in 2011 he is valued at £40m by some in the press.

 

So I think that counts as a stall in the middle years...

 

The Chamberlain's should take not of this.

Edited 8 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

Name some top current players in the world game that didn't get game time in their teenage years, either on loan or with their own club. You will find the majority played games.

 

No matter what Bale and Walcott did, coaching they had etc etc they would always have come good in the end. However both their career's stalled after their moves. It took them a long time to get going again.

 

You're saying as fact what is only your opinion.

 

But to say they stalled just isn't the case as far as I'm concerned. They bided their time, Bale struggled at first more than Theo, but to say they stalled is just wrong IMO. You're judging them on performances in the Championship (for a team that finished no higher than 6th) compared to how they got on for teams in the higher reaches of the Premier League. A huge step up in class. Just because they weren't regulars straight away, I simply do not agree that they didn't learn something every day in training in order to improve their overall games to the levels they are at today. Their career now is testament to the work they did on the training ground as well as on the pitch for a long time; they gradually improved from when we sold them.

 

And I never said they didn't get games, did I? What I did say is that the majority of teenagers at 16 and 17 are not physically or mentally prepared to come into one of the best Premier League teams and churn out top performances week after week after week. They are often served better by having more limited game time, as they are more likely to have ups and downs in performance levels. Its part of the learning process to come in and out of the team.

[Matthew Le God]

You're saying as fact what is only your opinion.

 

But to say they stalled just isn't the case as far as I'm concerned.

 

See post #901

[The Kraken]

See post #901

 

Seen it. See post #902 for why I disagree.

[Matthew Le God]

Seen it. See post #902 for why I disagree.

 

So Gareth Bale being valued at £10m in 2008, £3m in 2009/10 and £40m in 2011 doesn't count as a "stall" in your eyes?

 

That is not an upper curve on that valuation graph throughout his career. It is a significant drop and then rise i.e. he stalled from 2008 to 2010 due to lack of games!

Edited 8 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[The Kraken]

So Gareth Bale being valued at £10m in 2008, £3m in 2009/10 and £40m in 2011 doesn't count as a "stall" in your eyes?

 

If he had been sold for £3M you might have a point. He wasn't sold. He didn't even go out on loan. So it's irrelevant what offer came in for him.

 

As I said above, bale struggled to get to grips with Tottenham at first. But again, he was stepping up from one season at Championship level to one of the best teams in the country. Spurs paid £5M up front, with another £5M based on appearances. That, to me, suggests that they saw him a a player for the future. which means a lot of coaching and not expecting him to play 38 fantastic league games every season from the get-go.

 

Are you suggesting he learnt nothing at all in his first year or two with Spurs and then just suddenly remembered how to play football? Because that would be stalling, in my view.

[The Kraken]

You realise the only way to judge if he stalled is to see how GED have done had he stayed? Which is impossible.

 

Fact is, Bale is a top talent now that would get in most squads in Europe. That's amazing progress and I'm sure he was aware he might take time to establish himself at a new level. I doubt any players see adapting to the top flight as stalling, compared to carrying on as normal in the championship.

 

Exactly my point, and well put.

[Huntingdon]

The comparisons between Theo and Alex will obviously be made.

It's interesting to see some posters defend Theo and the progress he made at Arsenal.

 

I have no axe to grind with Walcott, but I beg to differ with regards to the wonderful progress he's made at Arsenal.

It was April 2008 when he came off the bench at Anfield in the CL QF, and momentarily transformed the match.

That blistering run from his own half, beating 4 players before pulling it back for Adebayor to sweep in an equaliser, it was brilliant, all he needed was consistency

 

Now look at Theo! He hasn't improved one jot in 3 years, he's that same player. Full of speed, but a poor crosser for a wide player, and a total lack of consistency

Also, remember that goal for Saints against Luton? A fab lob over their advancing keeper, he hasn't done that for years at Arsenal - his natural finishing has desserted him

 

He's bagged a huge bank balance at Arsenal, but his progress has been disappointing. I've been particularly disappointed in Theo that he hasn't worked harder on his crossing ability

I hope Alex doesn't turn out like him if he joins them

[JackanorySFC]

The comparisons between Theo and Alex will obviously be made.

It's interesting to see some posters defend Theo and the progress he made at Arsenal.

 

I have no axe to grind with Walcott, but I beg to differ with regards to the wonderful progress he's made at Arsenal.

It was April 2008 when he came off the bench at Anfield in the CL QF, and momentarily transformed the match.

That blistering run from his own half, beating 4 players before pulling it back for Adebayor to sweep in an equaliser, it was brilliant, all he needed was consistency

 

Now look at Theo! He hasn't improved one jot in 3 years, he's that same player. Full of speed, but a poor crosser for a wide player, and a total lack of consistency

Also, remember that goal for Saints against Luton? A fab lob over their advancing keeper, he hasn't done that for years at Arsenal - his natural finishing has desserted him

 

He's bagged a huge bank balance at Arsenal, but his progress has been disappointing. I've been particularly disappointed in Theo that he hasn't worked harder on his crossing ability

I hope Alex doesn't turn out like him if he joins them

 

Completely disagree. He scored 13 goals + 8 assists last season in 38 games (lot's as sub due to bad luck with injury), some of which were taken with pure instinct!

 

Arsenal fans here at work rave about him, Barcelona are scarred of him and he scored a hat trick in England's most important win since Germany 01 against Croatia. To say he hasn't improved one jot in 3 years is just plain wierd seeing as he scored 6 and had 3 assists in 33 games 3 years ago?

 

Persoanally proud to see Walcott tearing defenders apart in the prem, champs league and international level week in week out when fit, a nice lad to boot.

[saintjay77]

If he had been sold for £3M you might have a point. He wasn't sold. He didn't even go out on loan. So it's irrelevant what offer came in for him.

 

As I said above, bale struggled to get to grips with Tottenham at first. But again, he was stepping up from one season at Championship level to one of the best teams in the country. Spurs paid £5M up front, with another £5M based on appearances. That, to me, suggests that they saw him a a player for the future. which means a lot of coaching and not expecting him to play 38 fantastic league games every season from the get-go.

 

Are you suggesting he learnt nothing at all in his first year or two with Spurs and then just suddenly remembered how to play football? Because that would be stalling, in my view.

 

IMO Bale benifitted from being with us for that little bit longer. He got more games under his belt at Championship level and although he did stall at Spuds for a season he has gone on to be a better player than Theo. Not many players go to a new team and become amazing from the start and often they lose their form for some time.

 

Torres is a bloody good player but has trouble finding the net for Chelsea. As long as they keep playing him then he will come good. If he doesnt get pitch time he will stall. So this Stalling business is not limited to ex saints but its not to be ignored either.

 

Chambo for footballing reasons should be looking for a move to a top club at the time when he warrents walking into there 1st team and being given the pitch time to find his feet allowing for a dip in form. IMO Theo needed that extra time in the Championship to raise his game enough so he could move to a top club and be fighting for a 1st team slot. As he left early IMO he was not close enough to the 1st team which meant he had at least 1 season missing out on vital 1st team action.

 

Unfortunatly its not down to the players when they move. If Arsenal come knocking now the player may see it as his best chance of making that step to the bigger club. He doesnt know what will happen next week or next season. He might get injured or fall out with team mates or the club and not get game time here.

 

Theo left too early because thats when Arsenal came knocking, Bale left a little too early because thats when Spuds came knocking and we needed cash badly, Oxo will leave too early because Arsenal have come knocking again. Until we can offer contracts and wages that compete with some of the big clubs we run the risk of losing our best tallent when bigger clubs come knocking. In 5 years time we may just about be able to start competeing with what biger clubs can offer. At which point it wont be as much about the money but more about what a player can win with us or with someone else. And all of that is only if we continue the rise that is being attempted. Plenty more pot holes could get in the way.

[EBS1980]

Fourth_Official Fourth Official

ESPN is reporting Alex Oxlade Chamberlain has passed a medical at Arsenal's training ground ahead of completing a move #AFC #Saintsfc

[The Kraken]

Torres is a bloody good player but has trouble finding the net for Chelsea. As long as they keep playing him then he will come good. If he doesnt get pitch time he will stall. So this Stalling business is not limited to ex saints but its not to be ignored either.

 

I think what you've done there is highlight what "stalling" actually is. Torres is already a proven top level striker, at international and club level. He's proved that over a number of seasons. What he is doing now is having a lull in performances; he's not getting any better, in fact he's struggling to find his previous form at virtually the same level of football.

 

What Bale and Walcott had to do when moving clubs was completely different. They had to massively improve their games so that they were capable of playing consistently for one of the best sides in the country. As I've previously stated a few times, a lot of the time that just doesn't happen straight away, it takes some time for young players to keep developing so that they can become that player.

 

Just because after a player signs for a large club and he doesn't immediately start every single game, it doesn't mean he's stalled. At 16, 17, even 18 or 19, he is still very much learning the game and improving every day from working with top coaches and top international players.

[Barry the Badger]

In my opinion it's a bit of a 'Football Manager' mentality to believe that players will only improve if they get 'pitch time'.

 

Of course it helps but it's less important than good quality coaching and training alongside quality players to learn from.

[Matthew Le God]

In my opinion it's a bit of a 'Football Manager' mentality to believe that players will only improve if they get 'pitch time'.

 

Of course it helps but it's less important than good quality coaching and training alongside quality players to learn from.

 

Then why do so many top players either have a history of playing in their teenage years for their club or being loaned out for professional game experience? If they are loaned out they aren't in training with these "top players" or "top coaches". Playing against other professionals in the 2nd tier is much better than training at a big club and never getting game time in a competitive match. What makes you think what Wenger does in training is so much better than what Adkins does? The only difference is the quality of his teammates, which of course can be a factor to improve a young play, but I think that is far outweighed by the positives of playing regularly. Every manager who loans out youth players agrees (which is pretty much all of them).

Edited 8 August, 2011 by Matthew Le God