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Some interesting Cortese info


hypochondriac

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Please explain.

 

Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

 

Do you mean as a one (or two off in a couple of instances) off like these examples or consistantly?

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

 

Ever since the PL came into existence SFC struggled and so do all the smaller clubs I cannot see anything changing if we do return unless we spend huge sums of money

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1997 was a turning point for our club. Top flight for a decade, and investment needed for a new ground and to push onto the next level. Instead of people like NC and ML we ended up with Rupert Bloody Lowe.Dont give me a load of pony about building a new ground.What businessman wouldn't have done that, that was the whole purpose of the stock exchange thing. Lowe did the bare minimum that anyone taking over the club in 1997 would have done.NC appears to want to take us to a level that Lowe wouldn't even dream about. Seeing 50,000 trying to get to Wembley must have shown him what can be acheived at this club.There is no reason at all why we can not be the Premier Club outside of the big 4 or 5.

 

and some would argue that even the new ground had everything to do with Southampton City Council bailing Lowe out after the Stoneham deal fell through

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Ever since the PL came into existence SFC struggled and so do all the smaller clubs I cannot see anything changing if we do return unless we spend huge sums of money

 

Not according to some on here, all we need is a good manager and a good academy. We dont need to spend hundreds of millions on transfers and hundreds of thousands per player per week on wages. If it's that easy why isn't everyone doing it FFS?

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Not according to some on here, all we need is a good manager and a good academy. We dont need to spend hundreds of millions on transfers and hundreds of thousands per player per week on wages. If it's that easy why isn't everyone doing it FFS?

 

just like man city...who have an excellent academy....

oh crap

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

High correlation there between this list and teams that then played in the Europa league/UEFA Cup and struggled in the following season, you can add Saints to that list. Few of these teams can cope with success in the PL and playing in the unfashionable European competitions, due to squad depth. In most cases it would be better to play the youth team in Europe and concentrate on consolidating in the Top 6 or 7.

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Do you mean as a one (or two off in a couple of instances) off like these examples or consistantly?

 

errr, what do you think would be better to aim for, getting into top of premiership one or consistently?

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

We managed 8th place as well...many moons ago...

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High correlation there between this list and teams that then played in the Europa league/UEFA Cup and struggled in the following season, you can add Saints to that list. Few of these teams can cope with success in the PL and playing in the unfashionable European competitions, due to squad depth. In most cases it would be better to play the youth team in Europe and concentrate on consolidating in the Top 6 or 7.

 

heard them talking about europa league on radio and was stunned about the amount of extra games in can entail, something like 21!

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Ever since the PL came into existence SFC struggled and so do all the smaller clubs I cannot see anything changing if we do return unless we spend huge sums of money

 

money is huge - and biggest part of it. Wonder if the premier league this season (after top 6) was based on money though? Wouldn't be surprised if Birmingham, West Ham for example spent more than teams much higher.

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errr, what do you think would be better to aim for, getting into top of premiership one or consistently?

 

A lot average premier league can have a blinding season as a one off but how do you propose we do what Everton & Villa, both bigger clubs than us, have failed to do and consitantly stay in the top 6?

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A lot average premier league can have a blinding season as a one off but how do you propose we do what Everton & Villa, both bigger clubs than us, have failed to do and consitantly stay in the top 6?

 

their crowds are around 35k ish (from memory) so don't have massively bigger income. We are only likely to be edging above those on a regular basis if the owners are putting more money in. Clubs can also do well when they unearth a quality manager who has them punching above their weight (or MLT type player influence!).

 

I am not convinced we will be there at all, certainly not anytime soon. But with our backing, set up etc we have more chance of being there is 5-10 years time than many other championship / prem sides.

 

My post was no reason we shouldn't aim for top 6 - it is achievable. I am sure Everton and Villa are aiming there. They may get there next season - we won't!

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A lot average premier league can have a blinding season as a one off but how do you propose we do what Everton & Villa, both bigger clubs than us, have failed to do and consitantly stay in the top 6?

 

Who has ever said we aim to be consitantly top 6? CL football is a realistic aim even if it's only for one season.

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The comparison is around the ideas that Cortese and Lowe had. They both believe(d) in investing in the club infrastructure, they both believe(d) in investing in youth, they both believe(d) in Sports Science.

 

 

I did not say their personalities were the same.

 

Anyone reading between the lines with a smidgen of knowledge about DAVOS 2008 may come up with the crazy idea that Mr Lowe may have at the very least exchanged pleasantries with a certain Mr Liebherr ( or one of his very close confidantes) just prior to the fall of the Plc empire.

 

Don't read too much into the above, you just carry on slagging Rupert if it suits your stupid agenda, as long as it keeps you happy, just watch the old BP though.

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/\

DiBden P S

 

That last paragraph was not aimed at you, sorry as it does read that way but it was for people who can't see that RL was not out to destroy Saints, he actually loves Saints and whatever he did was (right or wrongly) for all the right reasons. To the point of (perhaps) trying to find a better owner rather than yet more (like himself) who's hearts were in the right place.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Rupert might have acknowledged his own shortcomings long before it all went kaput and tried to find a better placed and globally experienced owner.

 

Praps?

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

 

can't see why we can't be as top 8 like Everton.

 

 

Everton came 4th in 2005.

 

A good managerial appointment (like Moyes and hopefully Adkins) and sensible planning/investment can work wonders in a league of many clubs trying to buy instant success.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Not according to some on here, all we need is a good manager and a good academy. We dont need to spend hundreds of millions on transfers and hundreds of thousands per player per week on wages. If it's that easy why isn't everyone doing it FFS?

Probably because everyone wants instant results and that ain't the way to get them. Long term results? - well that's something different.

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/\

DiBden P S

 

That last paragraph was not aimed at you, sorry as it does read that way but it was for people who can't see that RL was not out to destroy Saints, he actually loves Saints and whatever he did was (right or wrongly) for all the right reasons. To the point of (perhaps) trying to find a better owner rather than yet more (like himself) who's hearts were in the right place.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Rupert might have acknowledged his own shortcomings long before it all went kaput and tried to find a better placed and globally experienced owner.

 

Praps?

 

You mean like getting rid of Nigel Pearson and replacing him with a couple of amateurs, or waiting a few days after the point deduction carry-over date to take the club into administration ?

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You mean like getting rid of Nigel Pearson and replacing him with a couple of amateurs, or waiting a few days after the point deduction carry-over date to take the club into administration ?

 

as plymouth proved... we did not even have to go into admin to lose the points...just give "notice" that we were going to......ffs,

lowe could have gave notice of administration a couple of weeks before the deadline and left it till after we actually did

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Teams who have done well in premiership and who show what we should be aiming for

 

Ipswich 5th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 6th

Blackburn 6th

Bolton 7th

Blackburn 7th

skates 8th

Fulham 7th

Fulham 8th

 

Top 4 or 5 would be freaky, but no reason why should not aim to be top 6 premiership side

 

You appear to have missed

Southampton 8th (2003) from your list, bizarrely.

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Firstly it is bizarre to suggest that RL had anything to do with the introduction of Markus. And I say that as someone who was generally pro-Lowe.

 

RL had no desire for Saints to go into admin, he had millions riding on it not. If you feel you could kiss goodbye to a million when there was an outside chance you'd be able to turn it round then you're a bigger knob than RL ever was.

 

Pearson would have wanted more money than the Dutch duo, plus had less of a track record with youth. Our wage constraint meant that every penny was needed (remember £5k tipped us over into admin).

 

Lots of things contributed to our delegation and administration, chief among these was:

- Lowe's failure to reappoint Hoddle (resulting in Wigley being forced on him and the ****storm that followed)

- the failed Wilde bunch gamble on promotion (not saying it was wrong to gamble, but we failed and did spray money around).

 

It's ironic that had we not been relegated, the talent coming through the academy could have been the root of something great for SFC.

 

All my opinion of course, and there are many ways we could have survived. Regardless we are now in a better position and the signs are we are growing the club in the right way.

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Firstly it is bizarre to suggest that RL had anything to do with the introduction of Markus. And I say that as someone who was generally pro-Lowe.

 

RL had no desire for Saints to go into admin, he had millions riding on it not. If you feel you could kiss goodbye to a million when there was an outside chance you'd be able to turn it round then you're a bigger knob than RL ever was.

 

Pearson would have wanted more money than the Dutch duo, plus had less of a track record with youth. Our wage constraint meant that every penny was needed (remember £5k tipped us over into admin).

 

Lots of things contributed to our delegation and administration, chief among these was:

- Lowe's failure to reappoint Hoddle (resulting in Wigley being forced on him and the ****storm that followed)

- the failed Wilde bunch gamble on promotion (not saying it was wrong to gamble, but we failed and did spray money around).

 

It's ironic that had we not been relegated, the talent coming through the academy could have been the root of something great for SFC.

 

All my opinion of course, and there are many ways we could have survived. Regardless we are now in a better position and the signs are we are growing the club in the right way.

 

Pearsons wages were not excessive and had nothing to do with getting rid of him. And Crouch said that Pearson would have accepted a lower salary when the contract was due to be renegotiated the summer RL kicked him out.

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as plymouth proved... we did not even have to go into admin to lose the points...just give "notice" that we were going to......ffs,

lowe could have gave notice of administration a couple of weeks before the deadline and left it till after we actually did

 

That's not the point. By going into administration a few days earlier the 10 point penalty would not have carried over to L1, and we would have made the playoffs.

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That's not the point. By going into administration a few days earlier the 10 point penalty would not have carried over to L1, and we would have made the playoffs.

 

that was my point.....we could have just given notice of admin if he wanted to drag it out......

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Pearsons wages were not excessive and had nothing to do with getting rid of him. And Crouch said that Pearson would have accepted a lower salary when the contract was due to be renegotiated the summer RL kicked him out.

 

No evidence either way (crouch's view is hardly unbiased is it). Gutfeel says a Dutch unknown gets less than an English incumbent.

 

Like a popstar who died young I think Pearson's results are overegged. He did well with Leicester with money behind him, a situation that we were certainly not in. Having seen us capitulate a number of times in our run in, I was never convinced he was the answer.

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that was my point.....we could have just given notice of admin if he wanted to drag it out......

 

:?::?::?:

 

If he cared for the club he would've have taken the club into administration 4 days earlier.

 

There are 100 other ways of doing it if he didn't give a toss about the club (which he knew he was leaving), like going into administration just a few days after the cutoff (which he did), or giving notice of administration to drag it out, or .....

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/\

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Rupert might have acknowledged his own shortcomings long before it all went kaput and tried to find a better placed and globally experienced owner.

 

Praps?

 

Well, it would have amazed me, simply because Lowe did his best to give the impression that he was the major shareholder and that he would have been prepared to move aside if somebody put £25 million on the table. In reality, his shareholding was only about 6% and somebody could have bought a controlling interest for about 11 million. Undoubtedly when it became clear that the club were about to hit the buffers and his shareholding and those of his mates Askham, Richards, etc would become worthless in administration, naturally he became desperate to get a buyer. But anybody with any business sense knew that it was a far better proposition to wait until we went under and get the club at a bargain basement price, rather than trying to buy a controlling interest and still have a troublesome shareholding faction in place. Believing that an egotist like Lowe would have moved aside for the good of the club because he realised his own shortcomings is not something I find very credible. Lowe had shortcomings? Surely not?

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Pearsons wages were not excessive and had nothing to do with getting rid of him. And Crouch said that Pearson would have accepted a lower salary when the contract was due to be renegotiated the summer RL kicked him out.

 

All of which is pretty much irrelevant, when you consider we spent £1.2m on an unknown French teenager. I don't think I can remember a more inappropriate tranfer in the history of Southampton football club.

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All of which is pretty much irrelevant, when you consider we spent £1.2m on an unknown French teenager. I don't think I can remember a more inappropriate tranfer in the history of Southampton football club.

 

Disagree. We needed a central midfielder in the Oakley mould, and Morgan was thought to be it. It also was in line with the give youth a chance strategy which was partly forced on Lowe due to lack of funds, but also lined up with his philosophy.

 

No way did we pay anything like 1.2m, just like we didn't get the 'could rise to' fees for Bale / Walcot etc. I guess the admin papers might tell if we owed Strasbourg (?) anything.

 

It suited the club (Lowe) for the fee to be thought of as big because it pacifies the mob. I'm not saying we didn't have a pot to **** in, just that hiring Pearson and pursuing a mature/mixed player approach would have been more expensive than the Dutch experiment.

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Disagree. We needed a central midfielder in the Oakley mould, and Morgan was thought to be it. It also was in line with the give youth a chance strategy which was partly forced on Lowe due to lack of funds, but also lined up with his philosophy.

 

No way did we pay anything like 1.2m, just like we didn't get the 'could rise to' fees for Bale / Walcot etc. I guess the admin papers might tell if we owed Strasbourg (?) anything.

 

It suited the club (Lowe) for the fee to be thought of as big because it pacifies the mob. I'm not saying we didn't have a pot to **** in, just that hiring Pearson and pursuing a mature/mixed player approach would have been more expensive than the Dutch experiment.

 

I find your clutching at straws arguments in favour of Lowe amusing. You must be related to him.

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It suited the club (Lowe) for the fee to be thought of as big because it pacifies the mob. I'm not saying we didn't have a pot to **** in, just that hiring Pearson and pursuing a mature/mixed player approach would have been more expensive than the Dutch experiment.

 

That rather depends on what you are basing the costs on. In terms of wages to the players and the manager, that might well be the case. But had Pearson and the much more intelligent strategy of playing a team balanced between youth and experience, produced a situation where we avoided relegation, would you then argue that it had cost more overall? We might well have avoided administration, but I'm happy that we were relegated in hindsight, as that is what it took to rid us of Lowe and the charlatans of the old board and the other egos who held shares in us and we probably would not have Markus Liebherr take us over had Lowe been here with his cronies.

 

So all's well that ends well. As we begin the new season in a few weeks time, we will effectively be at the same stage as we were at the time that Lowe took over for the second time with the Quisling. I think that it's fair to say that we are now in a considerably more optimistic situation, on the way up under Cortese fulfilling Liebherr's legacy, rather than entering a season full of dark forebodings under the kids and the Dutch non-entities. At the start of this coming season, we are also level par with the Skates too, but I very much doubt that they will be finishing the season ahead of us.

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That rather depends on what you are basing the costs on. In terms of wages to the players and the manager, that might well be the case. But had Pearson and the much more intelligent strategy of playing a team balanced between youth and experience, produced a situation where we avoided relegation, would you then argue that it had cost more overall? We might well have avoided administration, but I'm happy that we were relegated in hindsight, as that is what it took to rid us of Lowe and the charlatans of the old board and the other egos who held shares in us and we probably would not have Markus Liebherr take us over had Lowe been here with his cronies.

 

So all's well that ends well. As we begin the new season in a few weeks time, we will effectively be at the same stage as we were at the time that Lowe took over for the second time with the Quisling. I think that it's fair to say that we are now in a considerably more optimistic situation, on the way up under Cortese fulfilling Liebherr's legacy, rather than entering a season full of dark forebodings under the kids and the Dutch non-entities. At the start of this coming season, we are also level par with the Skates too, but I very much doubt that they will be finishing the season ahead of us.

 

I dont think the current situation is anything like the situation when Lowe tried to avoid Administration it is more like the early to mid 1960s

 

Where we had a respected Manager in Ted Bates home grown talent in terms of Paine Sydenham and Chivers and good Pros like Knapp Huxford Walker Hollywood etc and a 30000 Stadium with no mortgage and not many people knew who the chaiman was

 

Now we have a respected Manager in Nigel Adkins home grown talent in terms of OXO Lallana and Morgan (like Paine he was bought in early) good Pros like Fonte Davis Harding Guly etc a 30000 plus Stadium with no mortgage but everyone knows who the Chairman is.

 

 

The past is the past SFC did OK with limited resources but the future is bright and before us although some of the dreams of Champions Leage football are a little unlikely

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Disagree. We needed a central midfielder in the Oakley mould, and Morgan was thought to be it. It also was in line with the give youth a chance strategy which was partly forced on Lowe due to lack of funds, but also lined up with his philosophy.

 

No way did we pay anything like 1.2m, just like we didn't get the 'could rise to' fees for Bale / Walcot etc. I guess the admin papers might tell if we owed Strasbourg (?) anything.

 

It suited the club (Lowe) for the fee to be thought of as big because it pacifies the mob. I'm not saying we didn't have a pot to **** in, just that hiring Pearson and pursuing a mature/mixed player approach would have been more expensive than the Dutch experiment.

 

That's just so full on holes and contradicitions. :lol:

 

We had a 'give youth a chance' philosophy forced on us, so we spent our last penneys on... an unknown youth player. Imagine if we'd spent that money on a quality experienced player like (but not actually) Lambert or Fonte. We might have had a chance then. If you're badly short of money and experienced players, the absolute last person you should be signing is a foreign teenager with no experience what-so-ever of English football.

 

The sensible thing would have been to stick with Pearson, bring in free, experienced players like Wotton and Harding on small wages and mix them with youth players. Then spend the money we spent on Morgan (however much) on a quality, experienced centre half.

 

Not rocket science and I reckon it would have got us midtable.

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