Some interesting Cortese info

[hypochondriac]

Well if they don't mind you posting all that stuff, then there's no way they're employed by Southampton Football Club. There is absolutely no way an employee of the club would give you private information and be happy for you to write about i all on a popular fans forum (that, as everyone knows, is being monitored daily by the club). And if they're not employed by the club, the chances are the information you have given is bull****.

 

You don't know the person involved so as I said, I'll handle that thanks. I've posted the info and some people found it interesting which was the point of the thread. I'm glad.

[doggface]

It was interesting. Don't pay any attention to the trolls

[The9]

I cant believe what I'm reading on here, that some people still think SCW was a good idea and is somehow a loss to us because of his "sports science" knowledge.Every single Premiership Club and Manager (yes even dinosaurs like Redknapp) use it. Not one, despite being the highest paying sport, has approached, employed, or spoken to SCW about a role at their club.I doubt if one supporter of a Premiership side wishes they would employ SCW, I doubt if one Premiership manager has ever asked SCW for advice. The only person involved in Football that felt he needed his "skills" was Rupert bloody Lowe.

 

And dont forget it was not just SCW that Redknapp and Harry Basset had to put up with, but Clifford as well. Why has no other club called on Clifford's services. Comparing NC to Rupert Lowe is like comparing The Beatles to Freddie and the Bloody Dreamers.

 

No-one's called on Clifford because he's a maverick and playing futsal is not the sole solution to professional footballing skill development problems - not to mention that his focus is on young kids' development now so his role at a pro club would be limited at best. Woodward's affiliation to Clifford didn't help his cause any.

 

No-one's called on Woodward since because he joined the British Olympic Association immediately after leaving Saints to do what he was doing at the RFU, and hasn't made himself available.

[The9]

In terms of Cortese's plan generally, this summer will be when the investment in the playing squad can be judged post-Markus.

 

Until we buy someone from the bottom half of the Prem, or a top-level Championship player of the level of Fonte, there will always be the suspicion that we can't fund any new players without Markus being around.

 

That'll be the point when my cynicism regarding funds being available will go away. Until that point, we're just a Championship side that expects to do ok because we bought Championship players 18 months ago, but hasn't added anyone since. I'm ok with that, we've got a decent squad, but I'm not buying into the "loadsamoney" theory since Markus' death until we show it.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The comparison is around the ideas that Cortese and Lowe had. They both believe(d) in investing in the club infrastructure, they both believe(d) in investing in youth, they both believe(d) in Sports Science.

 

 

I did not say their personalities were the same.

[Lighthouse]

We've already had Lowe with money. He bought Delgado and Neil McCann.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

We've already had Lowe with money. He bought Delgado and Neil McCann.

 

To be fair WGS bought McCann. Delgado was Lowe's, but then he had no reason to think he would fail like he did. He was a success everywhere else.

[GenevaSaint]

You don't know the person involved so as I said, I'll handle that thanks. I've posted the info and some people found it interesting which was the point of the thread. I'm glad.

 

Hypo I feel for you I really do, first time I *remember* you've been positive about Cortese and you get slatted! blah blah blah, it's all BS, blah blah blah.

 

I found it interesting, pls do post again if you hear any more.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Hypo I feel for you I really do, first time I *remember* you've been positive about Cortese and you get slatted! blah blah blah, it's all BS, blah blah blah.

 

I found it interesting, pls do post again if you hear any more.

 

Edited 26 May, 2011 by Dibden Purlieu Saint

[Bucks Saint]

You don't know the person involved so as I said, I'll handle that thanks. I've posted the info and some people found it interesting which was the point of the thread. I'm glad.

 

agreed, thanks

[Pat from Poole]

No-one's called on Clifford because he's a maverick and playing futsal is not the sole solution to professional footballing skill development problems - not to mention that his focus is on young kids' development now so his role at a pro club would be limited at best. Woodward's affiliation to Clifford didn't help his cause any.

 

No-one's called on Woodward since because he joined the British Olympic Association immediately after leaving Saints to do what he was doing at the RFU, and hasn't made himself available.

 

 

I want Clifford back, so that we can have Socrates in midfield and Romario up front.

[WealdSaint]

This is a nice intesting post.

 

As it is so positive, and dos'nt really give much away, I can't see NC being worried about it even if he did find out.

 

I look forward to solid sustainable progress.........and who knows a top 5 prem finish in 5 years

[Lord Duckhunter]

I want Clifford back, so that we can have Socrates in midfield and Romario up front.

 

But we ended up with Jason St Juste

[hypochondriac]

In terms of Cortese's plan generally, this summer will be when the investment in the playing squad can be judged post-Markus.

 

Until we buy someone from the bottom half of the Prem, or a top-level Championship player of the level of Fonte, there will always be the suspicion that we can't fund any new players without Markus being around.

 

That'll be the point when my cynicism regarding funds being available will go away. Until that point, we're just a Championship side that expects to do ok because we bought Championship players 18 months ago, but hasn't added anyone since. I'm ok with that, we've got a decent squad, but I'm not buying into the "loadsamoney" theory since Markus' death until we show it.

 

An excellent post and one I totally agree with. Talking to this person did make me feel more positive though.

[theyin]

North East - Bob Paisley - Lawrie Mac - Liverpool - 84/84 1st&2nd - Phyisos - Our Nige

 

It's all linked, it's in the stars, it's happened before, it will happen again....in some warped parralell universe. Let's hope so

[Prince Jazzbo]

I want Clifford back, so that we can have Socrates in midfield and Romario up front.

 

Max Clifford would be better.

[derry]

Interesting, however I would like to know why Lambert's poor physical fitness went on for so long and the difference in his physical output from last season to this. I would have thought that was the sort of thing the training analysts would have been homing in on.

[Son of Bob]

Interesting, however I would like to know why Lambert's poor physical fitness went on for so long and the difference in his physical output from last season to this. I would have thought that was the sort of thing the training analysts would have been homing in on.

 

Lambert was carrying a niggling knee injury for the first half of the season and could not carry out full fitness training. Not good news for a player who is not the most 'naturally fit' at the best of times!

[jam]

Interesting, however I would like to know why Lambert's poor physical fitness went on for so long and the difference in his physical output from last season to this. I would have thought that was the sort of thing the training analysts would have been homing in on.

 

Wasn't that the issue behind? I think the rumours that the training analysts pointed it out issues with Pardew's pre-season regime and the manager told them where to go...

[derry]

Wasn't that the issue behind? I think the rumours that the training analysts pointed it out issues with Pardew's pre-season regime and the manager told them where to go...

 

I haven't heard the real reasons apart from Adkins and Lambert saying he had been carrying an injury early on but halfway through the season until the end he was still pysically not the dominant player of last season although he did provide more assists than individual goals in the box.

[Saint Charlie]

I'm certain that very, very few players outside the Prem will have played as many games as Rickie over the last two seasons.

[The9]

An excellent post and one I totally agree with. Talking to this person did make me feel more positive though.

 

Me too, hypothetically speaking.

[up and away]

This.

 

Lowe liked talking money but brought nothing to the club whilst taking plenty.

 

And I havent seen NC in a squad photo or heard of him turning up at the training ground in a monogrammed tracksuit.

 

Lowe really reckoned he could do the managers job, and this Napoleon complex where he interfered in Poortvillet's team selections helped get us relegated from the CCC.

 

Money being the main separator between Lowe and Cortese. Cortese has the power and acts, whereas Lowe had a very fine balance of shareholders and directors where everything had to be explained and agreed. A very difficult balancing act and one I don't believe Cortese would have excelled in. You have to remember that Lowe got a lot of people to invest in Saints and that had to be kept afloat to go forward. As for a monogrammed tracksuit, Rofey had monogrammed shorts and he was in the team photo, really irrelevant.

 

As for giving the manager a list of players he can and cannot use was pretty straightforward. Just a question of whether you believed administration was around the corner and that we had to force players off the wage bill or stop them playing if they insisted upon bonuses. As we have seen at Pompey, the idea is not completely novel, it's whether you believe the financial position dictated.

 

Where Lowe really screwed up was in keeping SWC on when there was the chance he would have backed off and used his salary + the investment into Staplewood, on the team. It would have had little difference with satchel face, as he was angling for an out what ever, with SCW just being a very easy excuse. I am unsure about Clifford, because without doubt the small football as used by all the under 14's in Brazil and the Dutch clubs for training is a proven method for introducing skills to young players. It's natural otherwise it only allows the bigger lads the full possibility of honing their skills. The problem was Clifford, a two edged sword. All the enthusiasm and experience for getting it to work, but such a thwat to go with it.

 

Cortese does not have to go into print to keep his financiers on song and he has the common sense to keep his mouth shut. But the direction and goals of the two within financial constraints are almost identical that I cannot imagine that they have not talked to each other at some point. The player transfer group set up under Cortese is almost identical to that set up by Lowe, bearing in mind I doubt there was anyone left involved from the Lowe regime, coincidental?

 

Nothing has changed with Cortese, just success has got more people on-board. He is a very focused and works extremely hard and he expects similar from his staff. Now for many of us seeing a new boss such as Cortese come in with this attitude is going to ruffle feathers. There will be staff which have a problem with bosses such as Cortese, but as repeated to an ex-employee, "so basically he is a hard worker, not interested in gossip and expects the same from the rest of his staff?"

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I cant believe some people still think L*we & Co, did a good job the last time they were here! Didnt anybody who's still a L*we luvvie listen to the interview NC gave to the BBC, where he stated that the previous incumbents were to quote "milking the club" and he had seen the books to confirm this. I say if you still support L*we, then thats up to you , but please dont speak his name in the same breath as NC. Because ML & NC have put more in to the club in 2 years than L*we & Co did in they're last 7.

[up and away]

Interesting, however I would like to know why Lambert's poor physical fitness went on for so long and the difference in his physical output from last season to this. I would have thought that was the sort of thing the training analysts would have been homing in on.

 

I believe it is his knees, very similar to what we saw with Fuller, where it took a long time after he left us to get back to full fitness. Why, because they both showed the same inability to jump for the ball, although that has gradually been getting better and better from Ricky. The other reason is Ricky's free kicks, nailed on last season and noted by there absence this season. No longer getting through the ball and getting the ball to get down quickly, more hit with the side of the foot. Something has to have changed dramatically from being unstoppable to just one over the season.

[manji]

I cant believe some people still think L*we & Co, did a good job the last time they were here! Didnt anybody who's still a L*we luvvie listen to the interview NC gave to the BBC, where he stated that the previous incumbents were to quote "milking the club" and he had seen the books to confirm this. I say if you still support L*we, then thats up to you , but please dont speak his name in the same breath as NC. Because ML & NC have put more in to the club in 2 years than L*we & Co did in they're last 7.

 

The "milking the club" alluded to the rabble after Lowe.

[lettuce]

My source had lunch with me not Cortese

 

Spoil sport

[Frank's cousin]

They're not altogether dissimilar.

 

The difference is that Cortese seems to recognise that investment is needed both on and off the pitch. Lowe's biggest gamble was investing in the infrastructure (Woodward etc) whilst neglecting the necessary investment in the team.

 

UHm... Always been an advocate of the infrastructure FIRST and then when thats in place, its should be easier to attract and keep young talent, supplemented by the experienced pros... the best recipe etc... Under the previous regimes we had our hands tied - we could either afford one or the other - Lowe chose teh infrstructure route , which meant lack of real funds for the first team to make any inroads and build on the 2003 successes. I dont think that caused relegation, but the loss of Strachan and then lesser managers without the time to bed in, injuris to key players and then Redknapp... etc - arguably the 2005 squad should have been good enough to stay up....

 

With CRouch and Wilde, they looked at it the other way, invested teh cash we had recouped from the sales of quality youth (directly a result of the infrastructure investment) in a bid to get back up.. it failed on a penalty shootout and thus begun the more serious financial problems)

 

There are few clubs that can do both... and if what Hypo says is true, and we can, then that is extremely good news. I would feel much better having success with players who have been at teh club since they were 14-16 than teh Chelsea/City approach - it may mean that if we had a successful year we may lose a few of teh starlets, and have to rebuild, but if teh infrastructure is there, thats not a really bad thing... as eventually we may just hang on to a few.

[Frank's cousin]

I cant believe some people still think L*we & Co, did a good job the last time they were here! Didnt anybody who's still a L*we luvvie listen to the interview NC gave to the BBC, where he stated that the previous incumbents were to quote "milking the club" and he had seen the books to confirm this. I say if you still support L*we, then thats up to you , but please dont speak his name in the same breath as NC. Because ML & NC have put more in to the club in 2 years than L*we & Co did in they're last 7.

 

True, Lowe put nothing in... he was a sharholder and did not have the wealth to make a real difference, niether did Crouch or Wilde. Lowe had a strategy when in teh prem, of break even, invest in the infrastructure/academy etc... most though that he was a cock as a result that others around us were buying players for 10mil + , why not us? Because we did not want debt...

 

Crouch and Wilde had a strategy of risking teh spare cash on a do or die promotion attempt that nearly paid off... Lowe only came back when we were on teh brink - probably very ill advised as it was too late. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... for me, its meant that Lowe, Wilde and Crouch actually dont come out of this as bad as the wounds of teh time suggest - there was no malice or greed as some love to suggest, just strategies that worked or failed, and mistakes made in teh interests of economies.. -that will never sit well with most fans, but teh staregy of avoiding debt and thus spening teh surplus on infrastructure is certainly a model that should be Mandatory - i t should simply be not allaowed to get into debt to either institutions or individuals to buy playesr aor pay wages - gifts of cash from rich owners should be declred in advance of a financial year so there is a set budget that all clubs should adhere to... but never going to happen, not when clubs like pompey can get away with cheating theiir way to 2 cup finals....

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

One of Lowe's problems was that while we had a wage cap which was sensible we still acumulated a massive and very mediocre squad. We could have had half the squad size and paid bigger wages for the same overall cost.

[Minty]

In the meantime, I managed to get a sneak peak of the new analysis suite being installed at St Mary's:

 

Edited 26 May, 2011 by Minty

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I will start to take your posts seriously when you learn how to spell "the" correctly.

[Wade Garrett]

I couldn't give a rats arse about Lowe, Woodward, Clifford etc.

 

They are history. Move on you boring gits.

[sadoldgit]

One of Lowe's problems was that while we had a wage cap which was sensible we still acumulated a massive and very mediocre squad. We could have had half the squad size and paid bigger wages for the same overall cost.

 

And who was that down to? The CEO or the managers?

[bubblyone]

With the new rules governing football finance coming in ,the importance of spending on 'infrastructure' will grow.

[dubai_phil]

How did this become a debate about Lowe again?

 

He has gone, he has a son who is a Saints fan so in my book if he's paying for his tickets I'm happy for them to come and watch.

 

He had some good ideas and some bad decisions but he is GONE.

 

I like the input from the normally sceptical Hypo, I like the fact that NC has seen some of what we tried to do and now sees that is the way forward. I think he is far closer to following the Arsenal model than what Lowe put in.

 

My views on the SCW role (as someone so eloquently put it) was that he was (and still would be) the best "Director of Technical Support Services" that any sporting entity could wish for. I think we were very unlucky we didn't get the chance for some of the basics of Elite Sports Management to get put into place.

 

Jeez if Luke Donald can challenge for the World #1 in golf thanks to a winter working with a Rugby KICKING coach to improve his mental approach & focus to the game then those same processes will improve footballers. And I am very happy to see we (through NC) are putting THAT infrastructure back into place.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

And who was that down to? The CEO or the managers?

 

both.

[sidthesquid]

It isn't hype, just what Cortese himself is working towards.

 

And that is the point. It's not a fantasy but a target. We might never get there, but it's a bit like Adkins saying we were chasing the title this season and ending second. If we build the club in the right way it is achievable. Stoke, Bolton & Fulham are no bigger than us and we'd settle for where they are, so pushing on a little further is not unimaginable.

[Legod Third Coming]

If we don't have the history and status of Barcelona and united, what we will have are the best facilities to attract the best young players and hopefully keep hold of them for longer. At least that is the plan.

 

You can't buy what Barca and United have in the same way you can't ask to be a legend. They have history at the top level and even Chelsea and Manchester Citeh can't buy that.

 

However, that doesn't stop us dining at the top table. Look at what Porto achieved under my favourite manager.

 

If this plan is to succeed, then we need to invest to get out of the Championship - which I've no doubt we will. But then I suspect we will need to employ the special one...

[Scudamore]

You can't buy what Barca and United have in the same way you can't ask to be a legend. They have history at the top level and even Chelsea and Manchester Citeh can't buy that.

 

However, that doesn't stop us dining at the top table. Look at what Porto achieved under my favourite manager.

 

If this plan is to succeed, then we need to invest to get out of the Championship - which I've no doubt we will. But then I suspect we will need to employ the special one...

 

Dannysfc?

[dubai_phil]

And that is the point. It's not a fantasy but a target. We might never get there, but it's a bit like Adkins saying we were chasing the title this season and ending second. If we build the club in the right way it is achievable. Stoke, Bolton & Fulham are no bigger than us and we'd settle for where they are, so pushing on a little further is not unimaginable.

 

What I think IS exciting about all of this is the fact that I don't believe that NC will "settle" for anything. He will keep setting targets and aiming higher.

 

Why should we "Settle" for being a Stoke or a Fulham or a Bolton? That way leads to aiming for averageness.

 

When you build plans you have to have a goal or a Vision, THEN put it into Bite Sized chunks.

 

We AIM to get out of the NPC, we AIM to get to the CL over time, and then, of course at some point in the journey we WILL be the equal of Stoke & Fulham (Which many of us would happily take today hell would even crack open an OSH with Eric!) But once we have made it to THAT point you HAVE to keep aiming and planning.

 

A great deal of our troubles resulted from.....

 

Lowe not "Pushing On" after the '03 Cup Final (as we have discussed to death). He "settled" for mid table mediocrity.

 

The one word I never want to hear while NC is around is "To settle" In fact in a different context, I don't want to settle for a point away to the League leaders either, I want to be MAD that we didn't WIN, and so should the players & Management - Elite Sport - mind games give that extra 5% you always need

[Joensuu]

If hypo keeps this up, I might find myself agreeing with him.

[Frank's cousin]

How did this become a debate about Lowe again?

 

He has gone, he has a son who is a Saints fan so in my book if he's paying for his tickets I'm happy for them to come and watch.

 

He had some good ideas and some bad decisions but he is GONE.

 

I like the input from the normally sceptical Hypo, I like the fact that NC has seen some of what we tried to do and now sees that is the way forward. I think he is far closer to following the Arsenal model than what Lowe put in.

 

My views on the SCW role (as someone so eloquently put it) was that he was (and still would be) the best "Director of Technical Support Services" that any sporting entity could wish for. I think we were very unlucky we didn't get the chance for some of the basics of Elite Sports Management to get put into place.

 

Jeez if Luke Donald can challenge for the World #1 in golf thanks to a winter working with a Rugby KICKING coach to improve his mental approach & focus to the game then those same processes will improve footballers. And I am very happy to see we (through NC) are putting THAT infrastructure back into place.

 

Not so much a Lowe debate, but a response to Hypo's post - if indeed Cortese has that vision and that strategy WITH the financial backing from the 'estate' (our official owners are listed as the 'Estate of Markus Liebherr), things look very promising indeed. But as many have noted, there are parallels with previous strategies, thats all. In the past though, there has not been the resource to ensure steady progress, whilst waiting for the longer term plans to bare fruit, so when confronted with major squad injuries, poor form and inexperienced managers still learning, it was alwasy going to be a struggle. The problem with the whole SCW /Clifford thing etc, was a classic case of a good idea, fecked up because of **** poor planning - Lowe should have known 3 things: Harry was a media darling, would not be prepared to share the spot light and had no real interest in us long term anyway so would not be happy; 2) the football media themselves are generally olod school and this woudl create a feeding frenzy, especially as they love nothing more than bringing somedown after success, and especially after the diaster that was the Lions tour 3) fans - read papers, prefer managers over board, especially one as unpopular as Lowe.... yet Lowe went ahead and in his usual way ignored the negative impact potentential if he failed to get his communication right and clear - which he did... sad episode, doomed from the start, despite tehe concept having a huge amoint of merit.

 

Cortese, has the advantage - he is able to introduce strategis and concepts at a time of success on the field - even potentially the same strategies, but because fans are happy due to on the field success, we are happy to see the club be innovative, think big, and pleased we seemingly have the resources to do it.

Add to that he can keep quiet and just work behind the scenes without worring about the media and its all seen in a more positive light, even if the strategies are similar.

 

Lowes, blunders time an again seemed to revolve around timing and communication - had he got those two things right, I think he would have found a more forgiving/receptive fanbase to ideas and strategies... it should not be forgotten though, that IMHO many fans are maybe now less demanding of spending big and taking financial risks after we have been through admin, and also after seeing what has happened down the road. How tempting must it have been for Lowe to improve his popularaity amongst fans by simply spending big on a couple of big names when in the prem? Yet had they failed to settle or improve our position, what woudl that have achieved except debt... maybe more understand that now?

[aintforever]

I was speaking with someone from the coaching staff a while back, I think most Saints fans will be surprised by how serious Cortese is about the club's ambitions. It's not like when Lowe used to spout his b*ll*cks - he actually means what he says.

 

Comparing Cortese to Lowe is laughable. Invest in youth and use sports science - woopie ****ing do, that's the blueprint for 99% of chairman up and down the country (even the clubs that buy short term success). It's not a new idea and it's not Lowe's or Cortese's.

 

Brazil were using psychologists in the 1970's, teams were using ballet experts in the 80's, Bournemouth drafted in a body language expert the other season to help a striker. Even that backward outfit down the road utilised sports science under mr Backward Redknapp. Teams have been developing young players since the dawn of time.

[NickG]

no reason at all that we cannot finish top 6 of premiership, but need a lot to go right.

 

Cortese seems to be about detail and building the right way.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1997 was a turning point for our club. Top flight for a decade, and investment needed for a new ground and to push onto the next level. Instead of people like NC and ML we ended up with Rupert Bloody Lowe.Dont give me a load of pony about building a new ground.What businessman wouldn't have done that, that was the whole purpose of the stock exchange thing. Lowe did the bare minimum that anyone taking over the club in 1997 would have done.NC appears to want to take us to a level that Lowe wouldn't even dream about. Seeing 50,000 trying to get to Wembley must have shown him what can be acheived at this club.There is no reason at all why we can not be the Premier Club outside of the big 4 or 5.

[Turkish]

no reason at all that we cannot finish top 6 of premiership, but need a lot to go right.

 

Cortese seems to be about detail and building the right way.

 

Please explain.

[Turkish]

1997 was a turning point for our club. Top flight for a decade, and investment needed for a new ground and to push onto the next level. Instead of people like NC and ML we ended up with Rupert Bloody Lowe.Dont give me a load of pony about building a new ground.What businessman wouldn't have done that, that was the whole purpose of the stock exchange thing. Lowe did the bare minimum that anyone taking over the club in 1997 would have done.NC appears to want to take us to a level that Lowe wouldn't even dream about. Seeing 50,000 trying to get to Wembley must have shown him what can be acheived at this club.There is no reason at all why we can not be the Premier Club outside of the big 4 or 5.

 

I think we all know that the deal for the Lowe takeover wasn't done for the best interests of the club, it was done for the best interests of Askham and Co. If rumours are true and Gavin Davies and his consortium tried to buy the club than there it was a no brainer as to which deal on the table was best.

[alpine_saint]

1997 was a turning point for our club. Top flight for a decade, and investment needed for a new ground and to push onto the next level. Instead of people like NC and ML we ended up with Rupert Bloody Lowe.Dont give me a load of pony about building a new ground.What businessman wouldn't have done that, that was the whole purpose of the stock exchange thing. Lowe did the bare minimum that anyone taking over the club in 1997 would have done.NC appears to want to take us to a level that Lowe wouldn't even dream about. Seeing 50,000 trying to get to Wembley must have shown him what can be acheived at this club.There is no reason at all why we can not be the Premier Club outside of the big 4 or 5.

 

Great post.

[Spudders]

Nothing I have heard come out about Cortese has changed my opinion of him since I had that meal with him last year. His ambition and determination to ensure the club is successful was so obvious it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

 

Based on his business background and him as a person, I suspect he’d have been that ambitious anyway, but I think with the untimely departure of Markus, that’s just made him even more determine.

 

I said before I met the man that I was unsure about the approach he'd taken for certain things, but my opinion changed dramatically after meeting him. This news from Hypo really doesn’t surprise me at all.