Does god exist?

[Verbal]

I did a poo earlier.

 

Would that have been in a wooded area by any chance?

[Smirking_Saint]

So, the arguement against the fact that there is no god is that the creation of life and the universe is far far too coincidental to not have been created by some intelligent lifeform ??

 

So, if it was created by something intelligent ? What the f*ck has he been doing since he created this marvellous thing billions of years ago ??

 

Jeremy Kyle ?? Inbetweeners boxed set ??

 

I personally do not believe in god, yes, I have had the odd moment when I have wished for something more, to perhaps change things or come in and provide some sort of devine intervention, but the truth is there isn't, the truth is if I jump off a building no matter how many years of praying will stop me hitting the pavement.

 

We were created by a sequence of fluke occurances, and chances are there is something else out there that was equally created under similar circumstances.

 

Jesus may have existed, but was he actually the son of god ?? And did he actually walk on water ?? Doubtful.

 

Do we however, as humans have the ability to take a story and as it is passed on tweak it ?? Sensationalise it ? Yes.

 

And the further this story goes it becomes the truth.

 

Well, I can honestly say my opinion hasnt changed over the past two years.

 

As for my opinion on the soul Jimmy, I have thoughts on this, that is that energy, as we know cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore I feel that life is a form of energy, and upon death this becomes something else. Possibly crap but it sort of makes sense in my own head.

 

I really dont get the arguement that because we cannot explain something that it must be god, that just goes against everything scientific IMO

[scotty]

Well, I can honestly say my opinion hasnt changed over the past two years.

 

As for my opinion on the soul Jimmy, I have thoughts on this, that is that energy, as we know cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore I feel that life is a form of energy, and upon death this becomes something else. Possibly crap but it sort of makes sense in my own head.

 

I really dont get the arguement that because we cannot explain something that it must be god, that just goes against everything scientific IMO

 

He didn't quite say that, he said that lack of evidence for the existence of God is not evidence of the non-existence of God, likewise our inability to explain or understand the concept.

[Smirking_Saint]

So, the arguement against the fact that there is no god is that the creation of life and the universe is far far too coincidental to not have been created by some intelligent lifeform ??

 

So, if it was created by something intelligent ? What the f*ck has he been doing since he created this marvellous thing billions of years ago ??

 

Jeremy Kyle ?? Inbetweeners boxed set ??

 

I personally do not believe in god, yes, I have had the odd moment when I have wished for something more, to perhaps change things or come in and provide some sort of devine intervention, but the truth is there isn't, the truth is if I jump off a building no matter how many years of praying will stop me hitting the pavement.

 

We were created by a sequence of fluke occurances, and chances are there is something else out there that was equally created under similar circumstances.

 

He didn't quite say that, he said that lack of evidence for the existence of God is not evidence of the non-existence of God, likewise our inability to explain or understand the concept.

 

Well true Scotty me ol mucker, but still my point remains. Our lack of knowledge in this area is due to our current scientific inability to explain it. Quite how this opens the door to a theory that a higher being created everything billions of years ago and has then gone on to join the dole Ill never know

[scotty]

Well true Scotty me ol mucker, but still my point remains. Our lack of knowledge in this area is due to our current scientific inability to explain it. Quite how this opens the door to a theory that a higher being created everything billions of years ago and has then gone on to join the dole Ill never know

 

There was an interesting ten-minute radio programme about this last week, I recorded it. If I can put it up on youtube I'll post the link. The guy's viewpoint chimes pretty much exactly with my own.

[Smirking_Saint]

There was an interesting ten-minute radio programme about this last week, I recorded it. If I can put it up on youtube I'll post the link. The guy's viewpoint chimes pretty much exactly with my own.

 

What is yours ? Ill have a trawl through, I dont mean to trample anyones ideas BTW. Everyone is entitled to believe, in fact I think faith can be important. Its just not a concept that I can believe, perhaps one day Ill have to admit I was wrong. Just the fact that I think more from a scientific POV these days its hard to concieve that godcan be real.

[Dr Who?]

Nope!

[Turkish]

Hello everyone.

[de-fence]

I have another gripe with religion that I don't believe is addressed often enough. A lot of religious arguments are grounded on the notion that we do not know enough about the universe we live in, particularly its boundaries and conception. I can understand the need for some people to fill this gap with a supernatural being, for the sake of their own comfort if nothing else, so that they do not have to live in a universe of so much uncertainty. HOWEVER, where does the leap come whereby you go from a supernatural being filling a gap in our understanding of the universe to a God that judges our morality. How are these two intrinsically linked?

[Hamilton Saint]

I have another gripe with religion that I don't believe is addressed often enough. A lot of religious arguments are grounded on the notion that we do not know enough about the universe we live in, particularly its boundaries and conception. I can understand the need for some people to fill this gap with a supernatural being, for the sake of their own comfort if nothing else, so that they do not have to live in a universe of so much uncertainty. HOWEVER, where does the leap come whereby you go from a supernatural being filling a gap in our understanding of the universe to a God that judges our morality. How are these two intrinsically linked?

 

Well, Dostoevsky once famously wrote: "Without God everything is permitted". In other words, he felt that non-believers would feel no constraints to how they could behave. This is a common view: no God, no basis for morals.

 

Another angle that people put on it is this: without a sense of a divine being, people behave in a self-centred way. Only a sense of something beyond this mundane reality can prompt people to behave with compassion; otherwise they are primarily selfish and amoral.

 

I don't believe either view, but these are two typical ways in which theism is linked to morality.

[de-fence]

Well, Dostoevsky once famously wrote: "Without God everything is permitted". In other words, he felt that non-believers would feel no constraints to how they could behave. This is a common view: no God, no basis for morals.

 

Another angle that people put on it is this: without a sense of a divine being, people behave in a self-centred way. Only a sense of something beyond this mundane reality can prompt people to behave with compassion; otherwise they are primarily selfish and amoral.

 

I don't believe either view, but these are two typical ways in which theism is linked to morality.

 

I think you have missed my point slightly. You have, like you said, provided a link between theism and morality. That is justification for the existence of God through our inherent morality but it has nothing to do with the conception of the universe. I'm after a link between morality and the cosmos. They're separate entities as I see it. I can comprehend the link between theism and morality as you have stated there. I can also comprehend the link between the unknown and a supernatural force of some kind. But the assertion that this supernatural force and a morality judging God (the theism we refer to here) are the same is what I fail to grasp. I think they call this 'the leap of faith'. I see this missing link as the key failing in using the unknowns of the universe to justify religion. Sorry if you perceive me to have missed your point.

[de-fence]

Well, Dostoevsky once famously wrote: "Without God everything is permitted". In other words, he felt that non-believers would feel no constraints to how they could behave. This is a common view: no God, no basis for morals.

 

Another angle that people put on it is this: without a sense of a divine being, people behave in a self-centred way. Only a sense of something beyond this mundane reality can prompt people to behave with compassion; otherwise they are primarily selfish and amoral.

 

I don't believe either view, but these are two typical ways in which theism is linked to morality.

 

As a footnote to that I also see that view as incorrect and a very cynical assessment of humanity. I live my life in the right way for the good of myself and those that I love. I don't need to be god fearing to prevent myself from killing people or stealing. The ingrained conscious I have prevents me from doing that and no, I do not believe that was provided by God either.

 

Slightly different point but I find it interesting how atheists/agnostics are massively in the majority on this thread. It does seem like finally people are beginning to think rationally about the subject and make up there own mind based on the absent evidence on offer for the existence of God. It almost seems like the only Christians left are those that have been 'brainwashed' by their parents. I have several good friends who used to be devout Christians who converted to being atheists having had a chance to grow up and really consider the situation for themselves. I do truly believe that Christianity, in the UK at least, is slowly dying out.

[Hamilton Saint]

As a footnote to that I also see that view as incorrect and a very cynical assessment of humanity. I live my life in the right way for the good of myself and those that I love. I don't need to be god fearing to prevent myself from killing people or stealing. The ingrained conscious I have prevents me from doing that and no, I do not believe that was provided by God either.

 

Slightly different point but I find it interesting how atheists/agnostics are massively in the majority on this thread. It does seem like finally people are beginning to think rationally about the subject and make up there own mind based on the absent evidence on offer for the existence of God. It almost seems like the only Christians left are those that have been 'brainwashed' by their parents. I have several good friends who used to be devout Christians who converted to being atheists having had a chance to grow up and really consider the situation for themselves. I do truly believe that Christianity, in the UK at least, is slowly dying out.

 

I think many parents become regular church-goers because they see a real value in the sense of community that it provides. They might not be strong, doctrinaire believers, but they appreciate the social aspect of the activity. Our society is now so atomised and self-centred, that many people are hungry for opportunities to congregate in a pursuit that is positive, non-threatening and non-commercial.

 

I also think that the constant and rapidly-accelerating change in society is disorientating for many people. They want some sense of tradition and continuity in their lives. Belonging to a religious community serves that role.

 

So, the debates about doctrine, theology and the clash between science and faith may be beside the point. "Belief in God" may be a minor, vestigial element in something more basic - a need to belong to a caring, trustworthy community.

[de-fence]

I think many parents become regular church-goers because they see a real value in the sense of community that it provides. They might not be strong, doctrinaire believers, but they appreciate the social aspect of the activity. Our society is now so atomised and self-centred, that many people are hungry for opportunities to congregate in a pursuit that is positive, non-threatening and non-commercial.

 

I also think that the constant and rapidly-accelerating change in society is disorientating for many people. They want some sense of tradition and continuity in their lives. Belonging to a religious community serves that role.

 

So, the debates about doctrine, theology and the clash between science and faith may be beside the point. "Belief in God" may be a minor, vestigial element in something more basic - a need to belong to a caring, trustworthy community.

 

A very coherent and valid explanation, thank you.

[Minty]

As a natural extension of that, I find it a real shame that religion seems to be one of the few places in which that sense of community prevails. There is much to be said for these communities and the way they come together to help and support each other, something that is seriously lacking in many of our towns and cities. Hamilton's summary is excellent; my wife and I have good friends and neighbours who are members of a religious community, and whenever we've been invited by them to events, we've always felt very welcome and part of that 'caring, trustworthy community' without anyone ever questioning our 'faith' (which is firmly somewhere between atheis/agnostic).

 

It's a shame that such community-focused behaviour and cultures, and the accompanying selfless attitude, does not prevail in more ways/areas of life.

[Clapham Saint]

I think many parents become regular church-goers because they see a real value in the sense of community that it provides. They might not be strong, doctrinaire believers, but they appreciate the social aspect of the activity. Our society is now so atomised and self-centred, that many people are hungry for opportunities to congregate in a pursuit that is positive, non-threatening and non-commercial.

 

I also think that the constant and rapidly-accelerating change in society is disorientating for many people. They want some sense of tradition and continuity in their lives. Belonging to a religious community serves that role.

 

So, the debates about doctrine, theology and the clash between science and faith may be beside the point. "Belief in God" may be a minor, vestigial element in something more basic - a need to belong to a caring, trustworthy community.

 

I think you'll find that many parents become regular church goers becuase some schools, despite being funded by the state, are allowed to discrimnate between applications on the basis regular attendance - signed off by the local vicar/priest or (presumably) iman.

 

Asside from the "does God exist" debate this is out of order for a state funded institution but probably another thread.