dubai_phil Posted 21 May, 2011 Share Posted 21 May, 2011 Lol, I'm completely open minded. As an atheist I just don't believe in God but I'm open minded to theories that might explain our existance. It's like a court case or a scientific experiment. You start with a criminal charge or scientific hypothesis and then look for evidence to substantiate the charge or the hypothesis. You balance the evidence and come to a conclusion based on that evidence. If the best evidence for God is a book written c.2,000 years ago that is full of holes then I need more and better evidence before I start to believe. OK, so not being funny or anything, what DO you Believe in? (big B not the small one) Just you post eloquent answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 May, 2011 Share Posted 21 May, 2011 Isn't that something in Quantum Physics? Something only exists if you see it? So if that is the case in Quantum Physics how does "See it in your mind's eye (ie Imangination) work? I'm not a phontum qyscicist, so I don't know. All I do know is that anything I know is only true as long as I think it is. Maybe everything you are not looking at disappears, maybe not. Either way it does not matter if what I percieve as my minds eye does not see it. I am exactly the type of person that will get killed by a train while I was trying to ascertain whether or not the people yelling at me to get off the tracks were waving at me because they were being friendly, or annoyed because I was smiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 21 May, 2011 Share Posted 21 May, 2011 OK, so not being funny or anything, what DO you Believe in? (big B not the small one) Just you post eloquent answers Good question, not easily answered. I'm a fairly literal atheist in that I have an absence of belief. I believe in the 'big bang' but can't understand what could have caused the big bang or get my head around what went before it. But I'm fairly comfortable with not knowing, plenty of bigger brains have gone before mine not fully understanding our universe and it's certainly doesn't strenghten the idea of God - if something created the big bang then similarly something must have created God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 May, 2011 Share Posted 21 May, 2011 But I'm fairly comfortable with not knowing, plenty of bigger brains have gone before mine not fully understanding our universe and it's certainly doesn't strenghten the idea of God Being comfortable in not knowing is a very important difference between most theists and atheists. There is much more that we will never know than we can comprehend. An important part of being an atheist is understanding that we will never know nearly as much as we know. Many theists cannot be satisfied with not knowing, and are happy to invent facts based on fancy in order to fill in those pesky blank spots. It annoys me when people (Atheists too) assume that because I have no belief in any deity that I automatically support the big bang theory. I don't. It's just another concept I don't fully understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8528088/GP-rapped-for-talking-about-God-with-patient.html GP rapped for talking about God with patient A family doctor, Dr Richard Scott, fears losing his job after he was reprimanded by the General Medical Council for talking to a patient about God. OK which of you lot just got fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 I have to agree with the GMC there. The GP wasn't at all professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 I have to agree with the GMC there. The GP wasn't at all professional. Ditto actually. Should stay totally away from work. Again like the Joss Stone weird freaky moment I had this evening in the paranormal thread - was simply a very noticeable co-incidence after this thread. That was all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 I have to agree with the GMC there. The GP wasn't at all professional. Why ?? Jesus christ, your not allowed to speak about anything at all these days without the risk of being sacked or reprimanded for something. God I hope that the world sees sense and tells the PC brigade to do one before we have to all only communicate via vetted letters from each others personal solicitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 Why ?? Jesus christ, your not allowed to speak about anything at all these days without the risk of being sacked or reprimanded for something. God I hope that the world sees sense and tells the PC brigade to do one before we have to all only communicate via vetted letters from each others personal solicitors. To be fair there is quite a difference between talking about God and "Following the consultation, the patient’s mother complained that the doctor had abused his position by “pushing religion” on her son." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 May, 2011 Share Posted 22 May, 2011 To be fair there is quite a difference between talking about God and "Following the consultation, the patient’s mother complained that the doctor had abused his position by “pushing religion” on her son." Yeah I can agree with that. Didn't read the full report at the time. Political correctness does get my goat however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Good question, not easily answered. I'm a fairly literal atheist in that I have an absence of belief. I believe in the 'big bang' but can't understand what could have caused the big bang or get my head around what went before it. But I'm fairly comfortable with not knowing, plenty of bigger brains have gone before mine not fully understanding our universe and it's certainly doesn't strenghten the idea of God - if something created the big bang then similarly something must have created God. Apparently, the "Big Bang" theory is starting to lose weight in the scientific world. The only factor that supports a "big bang" is the fact that the universe is expanding (its expansion means it must have originated at a single point), yet the "big bang" theory doesn't stand up to other scientific scrutinising. Have a look at these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Bubble_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation http://www.universetoday.com/15051/thinking-about-time-before-the-big-bang/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Apparently, the "Big Bang" theory is starting to lose weight in the scientific world. The only factor that supports a "big bang" is the fact that the universe is expanding (its expansion means it must have originated at a single point), yet the "big bang" theory doesn't stand up to other scientific scrutinising. Have a look at these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Bubble_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation http://www.universetoday.com/15051/thinking-about-time-before-the-big-bang/ Well, that all seems pretty reasonable. I can see that alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Apparently, the "Big Bang" theory is starting to lose weight in the scientific world. The only factor that supports a "big bang" is the fact that the universe is expanding (its expansion means it must have originated at a single point), yet the "big bang" theory doesn't stand up to other scientific scrutinising. Have a look at these... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Bubble_theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation http://www.universetoday.com/15051/thinking-about-time-before-the-big-bang/ None of those links suggest the Big Bang theory is losing weight. There are just further suggestions around what might have happened around the time it occurred, or even "just before". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 Sorry, should have explained better. I didnt post those links to prove that it was losing weight, it was just extra reading. Try these.... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070702084231.htm http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=big-bang-or-big-bounce http://www.world-science.net/othernews/060514_bouncefrm.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 23 May, 2011 Share Posted 23 May, 2011 "The idea that the universe erupted with a Big Bang explosion has been a big barrier in scientific attempts to understand the origin of our expanding universe, although the Big Bang long has been considered by physicists to be the best model. As described by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, the origin of the Big Bang is a mathematically nonsensical state -- a "singularity" of zero volume that nevertheless contained infinite density and infinitely large energy" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070702084231.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 25 May, 2011 Share Posted 25 May, 2011 (edited) Edit: Have faith. Be happy if you find someone else with the same faith as you, but don't force anyone to believe in your faith. Doing so undermines the meaning of faith - if your faith is true, you win. Leave religion behind. Edited 26 May, 2011 by Saint Fan CaM Wine induced b*ll*x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 25 May, 2011 Share Posted 25 May, 2011 I did a poo earlier that could only have been the work of the devil - thus proving Gods existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The universe, and it's creation did not occur to impress anyone. It is not here for us to figure it out. We are just a tiny byproduct of the universe. All of it would still be here without us. That kinda blows my mind a little. That something so complex and massive exists beyond understanding. Oh look, I can't even explain it. Btw, no God, or divine creator, if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The universe, and it's creation did not occur to impress anyone. It is not here for us to figure it out. We are just a tiny byproduct of the universe. All of it would still be here without us. That kinda blows my mind a little. That something so complex and massive exists beyond understanding. Oh look, I can't even explain it. Btw, no God, or divine creator, if you like. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Being comfortable in not knowing is a very important difference between most theists and atheists. There is much more that we will never know than we can comprehend. An important part of being an atheist is understanding that we will never know nearly as much as we know. Many theists cannot be satisfied with not knowing, and are happy to invent facts based on fancy in order to fill in those pesky blank spots. It annoys me when people (Atheists too) assume that because I have no belief in any deity that I automatically support the big bang theory. I don't. It's just another concept I don't fully understand. It's all in Hamlet... 'There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' ''There's a divinity that shapes our ends, rough-hew them how we will.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The universe, and it's creation did not occur to impress anyone. It is not here for us to figure it out. We are just a tiny byproduct of the universe. All of it would still be here without us. That kinda blows my mind a little. That something so complex and massive exists beyond understanding. Oh look, I can't even explain it. Btw, no God, or divine creator, if you like. ANd yet, for us, it exists. It would indeed be a sad day if ever we did understand it completly, for then our lives would hold little meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Bit weird to drag up a 2 year old thread like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Yes he was in our bathroom this morning. My wife could clearly be heard hammering the door & shouting "God, are you still in there?" I'm here all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 I miss Deppo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Was she also shouting 'Oh God' in the bedroom last night? Nice of you to let him stay over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Bit weird to drag up a 2 year old thread like that... What I find very disturbing is that this thread is two years old. I remember it like it was only a few weeks ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 I take a fairly agnostic view, I don't see any conclusive proof either way that God does or doesn't exist, and so accept that either is possible, although having seen opinions shift just in the time I've been alive, I personally don't think any human view of God handed down over thousands of years has any hope of being accurate. I do believe that there's more to the human soul than just this life though, for a few reasons. There's something different about this body, from my own point of view. Something that means I'm controlling it, making choices, and generally 'playing dice with the universe.' (Or at least, I have the illusion of that.) Not any other body, just this one, something different that makes this one 'me.' My consciousness apparently came into existence from nothing, which doesn't sit right with me from a logical point of view. Every cell in my body, over the last ten years, will have been replaced. In essence, my consciousness has been slowly transferred from one body into a completely different one, meaning it's not tied to my brain or body. None of that is conclusive of course, but it does lean me towards there being something more than this life. (With the added benefit that, if I'm wrong, I'm not going to be worrying about it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 As a belief system God can exist but only in the minds of the collectve. The old grey matter is a far more powerfull thing than we accept in modern day society, people with a strong belief in anything are capable of (current) scientific busting feats. Personally I'm happy not to follow any such doctrine and prefer to cherry pick knowledge from everywhere to come up with my own ideas and beliefs based on my experiences but good luck to non fanatical people who use it for the positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 I take a fairly agnostic view, I don't see any conclusive proof either way that God does or doesn't exist, and so accept that either is possible, although having seen opinions shift just in the time I've been alive, I personally don't think any human view of God handed down over thousands of years has any hope of being accurate. I do believe that there's more to the human soul than just this life though, for a few reasons. There's something different about this body, from my own point of view. Something that means I'm controlling it, making choices, and generally 'playing dice with the universe.' (Or at least, I have the illusion of that.) Not any other body, just this one, something different that makes this one 'me.' My consciousness apparently came into existence from nothing, which doesn't sit right with me from a logical point of view. Every cell in my body, over the last ten years, will have been replaced. In essence, my consciousness has been slowly transferred from one body into a completely different one, meaning it's not tied to my brain or body. None of that is conclusive of course, but it does lean me towards there being something more than this life. (With the added benefit that, if I'm wrong, I'm not going to be worrying about it.) Now you're getting to the essence of it. Are you sure it's the same consciousness? It's all an illusion. Our understanding of the world around us is merely a puny attempt by our conscious mind to see some pattern in it all, to make some meaning out of everything. The meaning of life is life itself. Without life nor all the seas nor all the stars in the firmament would ebb and flow and shine twinkle for nothing. My interpretation is that the stars and galaxies are there so that we may know that there is more than we can experience in our own parochial lives. As far as we know human beings are the only creature in this world that can look at the night sky and wonder. Whether you wish to credit God with all this is down to your own personal credo. Either way, it is there to be marvelled, to be experienced, to be investigated and explored. The rest is silence (Hamlet again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 What I find very disturbing is that this thread is two years old. I remember it like it was only a few weeks ago! Do you also find that policeman are looking younger? If so... http://www.saga.co.uk (If you're also feeling tired there's a nap for that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The fact that the question has to be asked in the first place must mean God doesn't exist. If he did, we would know about it, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The fact that the question has to be asked in the first place must mean God doesn't exist. If he did, we would know about it, surely? This is precisely my argument to those who see Christ and the bible as proof of his existence. If an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-loving creator being really wanted the world to know he existed so we might praise and worship him, he couldn't have chosen a worse way to do it really. Apparently we are to believe he sent his only son (in human form, of course) to spread his message and to sacrifice himself for all our sins, then buggered off - never to be heard from again. Yeah.... right! We are also supposed to believe that he sent a great flood to the world to cleanse it of evil. Well I hate to break it to you Mr god, but you didn't exactly succeed with that one did you. And surely if you really wanted to eliminate evil, being god and all, you could have come up with a much more effective way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 The fact that the question has to be asked in the first place must mean God doesn't exist. If he did, we would know about it, surely? Do you know who built the house you live in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Do you know who built the house you live in? No, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 No, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't God. But the fact that you have to ask who built the house doesn't mean that no-one did. I'm not trying to say that God exists, just pointing out that having to ask the question of whether he exists doesn't prove that there is no God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 But the fact that you have to ask who built the house doesn't mean that no-one did. I'm not trying to say that God exists, just pointing out that having to ask the question of whether he exists doesn't prove that there is no God. But you don't have to ask the question whether or not someone has built his house do you?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de-fence Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Even as an atheist, I have to have the humility to admit that some sort of supernatural being is not entirely out of the question. I am constantly fascinated by the existence of anything let alone the existence of the trivial problems we concern ourselves with from day to day. Thus, I will not be so arrogant as to dismiss a, unbeknown to us, driving force behind the creation of the universe as we know today. I still believe this would be possible to explain with science, even if it is too comprehensible for any human to be able to understand. But I'm trying to rationalise something I have just admitted I don't think exists so will stop here. The aspect of religion is however something I have never and will never understand. How any sensible, rational, educated individual can openly admit to believing in the Christian (or any other religion's) God I find just incomprehensible. Even taking it to the most simple to understand level that you can, the logistics of it make no sense. Put aside the notion that this 'moral' God allows some people in this world to live lives of luxury and others to live in squaller, why are some of us 'fortunate' enough to be born into Christian society. I have a good Christian friend who adamantly believes that if you do not accept and rejoice in the existence of God then you will, by default, not be granted access to heaven. This invites various points that label God as an evil, fascist, discriminatory being: 1) If you're one of the world's majority who belong to a society (through no choice or fault of your own) that has adopted an alternative God. You may have never even had access to a bible should you wish to read it - Regardless, you go to hell. 2) My friend believes that no homosexual can be a Christian as the scriptures handed down deter it. Thus if you happen to grow up and realise that you are homosexual, again through no fault of your own - you go to hell. 3) I'm a fan of the Streets (make of that what you will) and Mike Skinner presents a pretty valid point in a song named 'Alleged Legends' (albeit not a very good song). He says that if God is all powerful and I am merely a pawn in his play unable to truly control what I believe, why am I being punished for this when he created me this way, as an atheist. Further, if he is all powerful why does he require us to fight for his cause in wars. For a much more uplifting theory on life, may I direct you to 'On the edge of a cliff', also by the Streets. I'll quote a lyric 'For millions of years from the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your mum and dad's side successfully looked after and passed onto you life'. I believe the theories of Darwin to be the most beautifully constructed explanations for current ecosystems existing as they do. Having some chump tell me that everything was created as it is today genuinely does make me angry. Religion doesn't explain how we all exist here as we do, it sh1ts all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 But the fact that you have to ask who built the house doesn't mean that no-one did. I'm not trying to say that God exists, just pointing out that having to ask the question of whether he exists doesn't prove that there is no God. So because we dont know then it must be god ? What a strange view I thought I had a galaxy ripple in the fridge, its gone now.... Turns out god is a Choc loving, thieving fat knacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de-fence Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 I take a fairly agnostic view, I don't see any conclusive proof either way that God does or doesn't exist, and so accept that either is possible, although having seen opinions shift just in the time I've been alive, I personally don't think any human view of God handed down over thousands of years has any hope of being accurate. I do believe that there's more to the human soul than just this life though, for a few reasons. There's something different about this body, from my own point of view. Something that means I'm controlling it, making choices, and generally 'playing dice with the universe.' (Or at least, I have the illusion of that.) Not any other body, just this one, something different that makes this one 'me.' My consciousness apparently came into existence from nothing, which doesn't sit right with me from a logical point of view. Every cell in my body, over the last ten years, will have been replaced. In essence, my consciousness has been slowly transferred from one body into a completely different one, meaning it's not tied to my brain or body. None of that is conclusive of course, but it does lean me towards there being something more than this life. (With the added benefit that, if I'm wrong, I'm not going to be worrying about it.) You raise some good points here and i agree with a lot of what you say. I feel compelled to point out though that you are slightly incorrect with regards to what you said about cells. The cells in your brain, which does supposedly hold your conscious, are not replaced. You lose them but the ones you die with were there from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 This is one of the unfortunate side-effects of being religious. It blinds you and makes you make ridiculous statements like this... http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/video-pat-robertson-blames-tornado-victims-not-praying Televangelist Pat Robertson was asked today on the '700 Club' about the tornadoes that have ravaged the Midwest and killed at least twelve people (video below). He said that the storms weren’t an act of God, but instead turned it around on the victims, asking, “why did you build houses where tornadoes were apt to happen?” Robertson said the tornadoes may not have happened if enough victims had prayed: “If enough people were praying He would’ve intervened, you could pray, Jesus stilled the storm, you can still storms." Robertson made no mention whether or not he prayed for the victims or against the tornadoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 In the immortal words of Arnie " Between your faith and my Glock 9mm, I'll take my Glock 9mm" I think as people get older they tend to want to believe in it more which is understandable. Apart of me always thinks "but what if". But I don't think there is any god not because it goes against science but because this god would have to be the biggest asshole going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 In the immortal words of Arnie " Between your faith and my Glock 9mm, I'll take my Glock 9mm" I think as people get older they tend to want to believe in it more which is understandable. Apart of me always thinks "but what if". But I don't think there is any god not because it goes against science but because this god would have to be the biggest asshole going. That's not evidence that he doesn't exist. Jeremy Kyle is the biggest asshole going, he still exists. You have assumed that if a God were to exist he would abide by very primitive human views on right and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 (edited) The fact that the question has to be asked in the first place must mean God doesn't exist. If he did, we would know about it, surely? Some words denote real things - the words name objects in the real world. Some words denote abstract concepts - the words identify an idea, not a real object. Does love exist? Does courage exist? Well, we think we know to what they refer - we can point to experiences that show those ideas in action. But do they really exist? Behaviourists could argue that love doesn't exist - "love" being a special form of self-interest that helps the individual to survive. The term "God", likewise, denotes an abstract concept. To discuss the existence of a concept is different than discussing the existence of a real object. Another point to be made: philosophy had demonstrated pretty much definitively by the nineteenth century that the existence of God is impossible to prove - if we mean by existence something that has an objective reality, rather than a conceptual essence. Edited 21 May, 2013 by Hamilton Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 So because we dont know then it must be god ? What a strange view I thought I had a galaxy ripple in the fridge, its gone now.... Turns out god is a Choc loving, thieving fat knacker. Read it again. I'm not saying that there is a God. I don't know. I'm saying that not knowing doesn't necessarily mean an absence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stug76 Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Some words denote real things - the words name objects in the real world. Some words denote abstract concepts - the words identify an idea, not a real object. Does love exist? Does courage exist? Well, we think we know to what they refer - we can point to experiences that show those ideas in action. But do they really exist? Behaviourists could argue that love doesn't exist - "love" being a special form of self-interest that helps the individual to survive. The term "God", likewise, denotes an abstract concept. To discuss the existence of a concept is different than discussing the existence of a real object. Another point to be made: philosophy had demonstrated pretty much definitively by the nineteenth century that the existence of God is impossible to prove - if we mean by existence something that has an objective reality, rather than a conceptual essence. I don't think that people "believe" would consider god to be an abstract concept. I wouldn't suggest that we have worked it all out, that we know everything but, I think that we know enough to say that the god, or gods of the religions that are practiced don't exist. Now, if there is something out there, a "higher" being if you like, and I could buy into that, then it doesn't or wont exist along the lines of our gods, or the Greek gods, or Roman gods etc. I've come to the conclusion now, that I question the judgement of anyone who is religious. The quicker that religion disappears, the better as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 You raise some good points here and i agree with a lot of what you say. I feel compelled to point out though that you are slightly incorrect with regards to what you said about cells. The cells in your brain, which does supposedly hold your conscious, are not replaced. You lose them but the ones you die with were there from the start. Thanks for that, didn't know they'd found that with brain cells. I guess that knocks me squarely back into 'I don't know' from leaning towards there being something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Read it again. I'm not saying that there is a God. I don't know. I'm saying that not knowing doesn't necessarily mean an absence of God. As the archaeologists say, 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug187 Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 Belief in the existence of anything that isn't evinced in the slightest, positions 'god' firmly in the same category as UFO's, ghosts and Nessie. Just one shred of evidence is all I need to convert me. Until then agnostic, de facto atheist is pretty much the only rational position. Thinking about it, I'm not sure I needed 'pretty much' in that last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 21 May, 2013 Share Posted 21 May, 2013 I don't think that people "believe" would consider god to be an abstract concept. I wouldn't suggest that we have worked it all out, that we know everything but, I think that we know enough to say that the god, or gods of the religions that are practiced don't exist. Now, if there is something out there, a "higher" being if you like, and I could buy into that, then it doesn't or wont exist along the lines of our gods, or the Greek gods, or Roman gods etc. I've come to the conclusion now, that I question the judgement of anyone who is religious. The quicker that religion disappears, the better as far as I'm concerned. It's hard to imagine that moderns would think of "God" as a person. Man? Old man? White beard? Above the clouds? Thses are very ancient, unsophisticated notions. The only viable notion for a modern consciousness, it seems to me, is of a very abstract "supreme being". This concept is often labelled the "prime mover", the "first cause", or the "ground of being". But it's difficult to have a personal relationship with a "ground of being". How does one pray to such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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