um pahars Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 So this leads to the question who was killed? A black man or a human being? I notice Radio 5 said the murder of the BLACK teenager, Stephen Lawrence when reporting it. Why are people so delighted that it was proven to be racist murder? Amidst all the celebration and backslapping of justice and hallelujah the judge said it was a racist attack, people seem to be forgetting that a lad has been killed here, regardless of the colour of his skin. A human being was killed because he was black. That is the relevance in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 A human being was killed because he was black. That is the relevance in this instance. In that case isn't it disgusting that people are giving each other cyber high 5s that those covicted were convicted for a racist murder? And no one has answered the question as to why people think a racist murder is worse than any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 So this leads to the question who was killed? A black man or a human being? I notice Radio 5 said the murder of the BLACK teenager, Stephen Lawrence when reporting it. Why are people so delighted that it was proven to be racist murder? Amidst all the celebration and backslapping of justice and hallelujah the judge said it was a racist attack, people seem to be forgetting that a lad has been killed here, regardless of the colour of his skin. Not sure if you're being provocatively naive here Turkish. Taking your ignorance at face value though, the reason this is reported in such an obvious race context is down to profound effect the case had on society in general and the police specifically following the MacPherson enquiry's citing of the Police as institutionally racist. Stephen Lawrence's death changed the way the police dealt with ethnic minorities. The case would therefore never again be reported in any other context other than one of race. I agree in principle that the skin colour of the victim shouldn't matter, but as this case came to symbolise the (then) comparative lack of access of the black community to the justice system and the walking free of the gang that were pretty much known to have killed someone, it would be naive in the extreme to expect it to be reported in any other way. It's not insensitive, it's iconic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 And no one has answered the question as to why people think a racist murder is worse than any other. Because racism is wrong and murder is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 (edited) In that case isn't it disgusting that people are giving each other cyber high 5s that those covicted were convicted for a racist murder? And no one has answered the question as to why people think a racist murder is worse than any other. Well firstly I'm not sure anyone is giving each other cyber high 5s because were convicted of a racist murder. Tempered relief/joy (if that's the right emotion) that justice has finally been seen to be done maybe, but not the excessive jubilation in the way youve described (even if there is still the issue of three others still walking the streets). And I'm not sure anyone has suggested one murder is worse than another, so methinks you might be titling at windmills on both counts. It was a landmark case for many reasons (changing of double jeopardy rule, highlighting institutional racism in the establishment, the myriad of recommendations in the inquiry report etc etc etc), but struggling to understand if you're really that ignorant or instead being somewhat disingenuous with your replies (and honestly not sure what is worse with regards this case). Edited 3 January, 2012 by um pahars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Because racism is wrong and murder is wrong? And a racist murder is worse than a "normal" murder because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Not sure if you're being provocatively naive here Turkish. Taking your ignorance at face value though, the reason this is reported in such an obvious race context is down to profound effect the case had on society in general and the police specifically following the MacPherson enquiry's citing of the Police as institutionally racist. Stephen Lawrence's death changed the way the police dealt with ethnic minorities. The case would therefore never again be reported in any other context other than one of race. I agree in principle that the skin colour of the victim shouldn't matter, but as this case came to symbolise the (then) comparative lack of access of the black community to the justice system and the walking free of the gang that were pretty much known to have killed someone, it would be naive in the extreme to expect it to be reported in any other way. It's not insensitive, it's iconic. Sorry, what's ignorant about a human being being murdered, not a black man? What's ignorant about not leaping for joy be use some thugs have been convicted of a racist murder? What's ignorant about think a human being killing a person of a different akin colour is no worse than a human being killing a person of the same skin colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Sorry, what's ignorant about a human being being murdered, not a black man? What's ignorant about not leaping for joy be use some thugs have been convicted of a racist murder? What's ignorant about think a human being killing a person of a different akin colour is no worse than a human being killing a person of the same skin colour? Your ignorance here is a lack of knowledge of the wider context of the case? I thought that was clear. Sorry if it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 And a racist murder is worse than a "normal" murder because? There's no such thing as a normal murder but you have to be a complete c*nt to kill someone because of the colour of their skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 There's no such thing as a normal murder but you have to be a complete c*nt to kill someone because of the colour of their skin. What difference does skin colour make? Does it make it worse if this is the motivation over for example sexual deviance or homophobia or just killing for the kick etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 What difference does skin colour make? Does it make it worse if this is the motivation over for example sexual deviance or homophobia or just killing for the kick etc? They are just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 (edited) Well firstly I'm not sure anyone is giving each other cyber high 5s because were convicted of a racist murder. Tempered relief/joy (if that's the right emotion) that justice has finally been seen to be done maybe, but not the excessive jubilation in the way youve described (even if there is still the issue of three others still walking the streets). And I'm not sure anyone has suggested one murder is worse than another, so methinks you might be titling at windmills on both counts. It was a landmark case for many reasons (changing of double jeopardy rule, highlighting institutional racism in the establishment, the myriad of recommendations in the inquiry report etc etc etc), but struggling to understand if you're really that ignorant or instead being somewhat disingenuous with your replies (and honestly not sure what is worse with regards this case). Oh come off it Steve. look at the first posts when the verdicts were announced. It wasnt joy and relief that murders were being locked up, it was back slapping, high fiving, "you see, i told you they were racists" type posts. Why does it matter? People are losing sight of the fact a lad was murdered and more self congratulation that the court said they were racist and that was their view. In the grand scheme of things does it matter? A lad was killed, his family, god bless them and fair play to them for the incredilble lengths they went to to get justice, are finally have some sort of closure and justice. People keep on saying i am ignororant. I am not ignorant, i am merely pointing out that to a lot of people the murder seems to be irrlevant, all that matters all that matters is the word "racist" being used by the judge and in the media. Edited 3 January, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Your ignorance here is a lack of knowledge of the wider context of the case? I thought that was clear. Sorry if it wasn't. Which is exactly my point, to a lot of people the murder seems to have taken a back seat, as long as the word "racist" is mentioned somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Oh come off it Steve. look at the first posts when the verdicts were announced. It wasnt joy and relief that murders were being locked up, it was back slapping, high fiving, "you see, i told you they were racists" type posts. Why does it matter? People are losing sight of the fact a lad was murdered and more self congratulation that the court said they were racist and that was their view. In the grand scheme of things does it matter? A lad was killed, his family, god bless them and fair play to them for the incredilble lengths they went to to get justice, are finally have some sort of closure and justice. Yet to a lot of people all that matters is the word "racist" being used by the judge and in the media. I expect people who are the victim of racist abuse/discrimination/attacks think it's important. Especially as the police were also racist in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Oh come off it Steve. look at the first posts when the verdicts were announced. It wasnt joy and relief that murders were being locked up, it was back slapping, high fiving, "you see, i told you they were racists" type posts. Why does it matter? People are losing sight of the fact a lad was murdered and more self congratulation that the court said they were racist and that was their view. In the grand scheme of things does it matter? A lad was killed, his family, god bless them and fair play to them for the incredilble lengths they went to to get justice, are finally have some sort of closure and justice. Yet to a lot of people all that matters is the word "racist" being used by the judge and in the media. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here (in that I hope it's ignorance on your part and not trying to be cantankerous just for the sake of it, which would be extremely insensitive and disappointing) but I do think you have seriously misjudged all that this case is about. There's a good piece by Michael Mansbridge on the Guardian website, you'd do well to read it (and others): http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/03/stephen-lawrence-verdict-society-murderers There's a line in it about why the MacPherson Inquiry felt it was necessary to understand the motivation of the murder and the part racism played in it: "must surely make us all determined that by education, family and community influence, proper policing and all available means society does all it can to ensure that the minds of present and future generations are not allowed to become violent and maliciously prejudiced". In the grand scheme of things the motivation of the racists is central to events and it is crucial to understand how this manifested itself most importantly to try and ensure such henious crimes are not repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Panorama special on BBC1 right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Panarama on Stephen Lawrence on BBC1 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Panarama on Stephen Lawrence on BBC1 now. They soon made that programme. Do you think they made two programmes, one for each outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Oh come off it Steve. look at the first posts when the verdicts were announced. It wasnt joy and relief that murders were being locked up, it was back slapping, high fiving, "you see, i told you they were racists" type posts. Why does it matter? People are losing sight of the fact a lad was murdered and more self congratulation that the court said they were racist and that was their view. In the grand scheme of things does it matter? A lad was killed, his family, god bless them and fair play to them for the incredilble lengths they went to to get justice, are finally have some sort of closure and justice. Yet to a lot of people all that matters is the word "racist" being used by the judge and in the media. I completely agree with the principle that the greater crime is the death of a teenager and that his skin colour is secondary. But you'd have to have had your head somewhere where the sun doesn't shine for the last 20 years to not understand that this case was about race and racism. The killing was racially motivated, the perpetrators were racists, the police service's policies and procedures were institutionally racist. Stephen Lawrence's death has come to symbolise minorities' struggle against racism and the verdict today will come to symbolise a victory against racism in years to come. You're going to have to get over your sensitivity I fear Turkish because this case will be reported in a race context whenever it is mentioned. So it's no surprise that it is being handled that way on here. Why so sensitive to the racist categorisation of the case and verdict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 They soon made that programme. Do you think they made two programmes, one for each outcome? Possibly... with different tones? Or maybe just would only show it if guilty. It's not totally about the verdict though, it seems more about her journey for justice and the murder itself and its effect on the country as a whole. This murder was largely before my time so I should watch this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I completely agree with the principle that the greater crime is the death of a teenager and that his skin colour is secondary. But you'd have to have had your head somewhere where the sun doesn't shine for the last 20 years to not understand that this case was about race and racism. The killing was racially motivated, the perpetrators were racists, the police service's policies and procedures were institutionally racist. Stephen Lawrence's death has come to symbolise minorities' struggle against racism and the verdict today will come to symbolise a victory against racism in years to come. You're going to have to get over your sensitivity I fear Turkish because this case will be reported in a race context whenever it is mentioned. So it's no surprise that it is being handled that way on here. Why so sensitive to the racist categorisation of the case and verdict? Im not sensitive to it at all. I just feel that some people seem to have lost sight on the fact of the lads murder and the struggle and tremendous bravery of his mum in getting justice. I just think for some the murder has become a side issue and the main issue is those convicted were convicted of a race crime, not a murder. ANd that is what i am pointing out to the ones who highlighted the word "racist" earlier up the thread at the verdict and "look look, it WAS a racist attack" type attitudes. I dont give a toss if people think i'm ignorant. I'm just,rightly, IMO opinion pointing out that this was a murder and people have been convicted of murder, some people seem to only care that they have been covicted of a racist murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Possibly... with different tones? Or maybe just would only show it if guilty. It's not totally about the verdict though, it seems more about her journey for justice and the murder itself and its effect on the country as a whole. This murder was largely before my time so I should watch this. I would be watching it, but BBC 2 are showing a documentary on George and Mary with some splendid scenes from our Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Im not sensitive to it at all. I just feel that some people seem to have lost sight on the fact of the lads murder and the struggle and tremendous bravery of his mum in getting justice. I just think for some the murder has become a side issue and the main issue is those convicted were convicted of a race crime, not a murder. ANd that is what i am pointing out to the ones who highlighted the word "racist" earlier up the thread at the verdict and "look look, it WAS a racist attack" type attitudes. I dont give a toss if people think i'm ignorant. I'm just,rightly, IMO opinion pointing out that this was a murder and people have been convicted of murder, some people seem to only care that they have been covicted of a racist murder. Fair enough. And for the record my use of 'ignorance' was simply meant to suggest a lack of knowledge of the detail of the case on your part. I wasn't suggesting your were 'ignorant'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I am watching BBC 1 now but a bit uncomfortable that this is aired so early, also the Mum saying about someone going to prison for her son's murder, surely she should be saying my sons killer or killers going to prison for his murder? Whatever RIP Stephen Lawrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I dont give a toss if people think i'm ignorant. I'm just,rightly, IMO opinion pointing out that this was a murder and people have been convicted of murder, some people seem to only care that they have been covicted of a racist murder. Ignorant possibly, but wilful, lemon-sucking obduracy more likely: it's the verdict itself you hate but you can't bring yourself to say it. No one has said they 'only care that they have been convicted of a racist murder' - simply that a racist murder was committed, the murderers not only appeared to get away with it for years, partly through an incompetent, corrupt and 'institutionally racist' investigation, but actually enjoyed revelling in their notoriety. After all these years, the racist creeps have been put away for ending the life of a talented young black man. There is every reason to celebrate that justice finally prevailed....up to a point. There are three other suspects to deal with yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Ignorant possibly, but wilful, lemon-sucking obduracy more likely: it's the verdict itself you hate but you can't bring yourself to say it. No one has said they 'only care that they have been convicted of a racist murder' - simply that a racist murder was committed, the murderers not only appeared to get away with it for years, partly through an incompetent, corrupt and 'institutionally racist' investigation, but actually enjoyed revelling in their notoriety. After all these years, the racist creeps have been put away for ending the life of a talented young black man. There is every reason to celebrate that justice finally prevailed....up to a point. There are three other suspects to deal with yet. Oh dear Verbal, there you go again, telling people what they think. Is your memory and ability to read going as well as your sanity? Prehaps you should read the early posts on this thread where i gave my view on what i thought of the people accused at what should happen to them. It's on page two of this thread if you want to have a look and come back with an apology. Now until you learn to get your facts right and stop pointing fingers and name calling like a 5 year old child based on your own stupidity then i am not going to engage with you again on this subject you silly little man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Oh dear Verbal, there you go again, telling people what they think. Is your memory and ability to read going as well as your sanity? Prehaps you should read the early posts on this thread where i gave my view on what i thought of the people accused at what should happen to them. It's on page two of this thread if you want to have a look and come back with an apology. Now until you learn to get your facts right and stop pointing fingers and name calling like a 5 year old child based on your own stupidity then i am not going to engage with you again on this subject you silly little man. Whatever you say, what you really think is clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Whatever you say, what you really think is clear enough. You don't forget the avatar do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Whatever you say, what you really think is clear enough. Yep, it's there in black and white on page 2 of this thead. "I think they are guilty as f*ck and deserve to hang" Was my view then, is my view now. Still dont let that get in the way of you making yourself look a judgemental, conclusion leaping c*nt as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 You don't forget the avatar do you. Surely not another occasion where he lept to conculsions and got it wrong? How can this be for a man so great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Surely not another occasion where he lept to conculsions and got it wrong? How can this be for a man so great? not a chance...verbal is like a living oracle ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Im not sensitive to it at all. I just feel that some people seem to have lost sight on the fact of the lads murder and the struggle and tremendous bravery of his mum in getting justice. I just think for some the murder has become a side issue and the main issue is those convicted were convicted of a race crime, not a murder. ANd that is what i am pointing out to the ones who highlighted the word "racist" earlier up the thread at the verdict and "look look, it WAS a racist attack" type attitudes. I dont give a toss if people think i'm ignorant. I'm just,rightly, IMO opinion pointing out that this was a murder and people have been convicted of murder, some people seem to only care that they have been covicted of a racist murder. You may genuinely feel that way, but as far as I can tell from all the reporting that is certainly not the case. The death of this young man is central to everything I have seen, heard or read and that is despite the serious repercussions and changes his murder had on our society. Everything else, despite their seriousness is secondary. Now with that I'm out, as being honest I'm not overly comfortable with the tone, direction and gist of some of the posts on this thread. I'm finding it somewhat unedifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 You can't bang on earlier in the thread about how it wasn't a racist murder, and then later bang on about how actually now you don't care whether it's racist or not, just that its a murder. That's just being an argumentative hypocritical troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I'm glad to see justice done at last . Whether it was with racist intent of not a young lad was murdered . Racists attacks go on all the time and it is not a white on black issue it's much wider than that . I hope the yobs in this particular case get sent down for along time and you can guarantee they will appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 The sentencing will be interesting as I've just read that the judge has to sentence the murderers as things were at the time of the crime. ie they will be treated as minors and the judge is without the 'benefit' or harsher laws to combat racially motivated crimes. I hope this doesn't end up looking like grown men have got away with murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 The sentencing will be interesting as I've just read that the judge has to sentence the murderers as things were at the time of the crime. ie they will be treated as minors and the judge is without the 'benefit' or harsher laws to combat racially motivated crimes. I hope this doesn't end up looking like grown men have got away with murder. I certainly hope this is wrong also. The thought of them being released due to 'time served on remand' and their gloating faces (hiding the fact that 'some foreigner is gonna be made to pay for this' is on their minds) will be another nail in the coffin of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 The sentencing will be interesting as I've just read that the judge has to sentence the murderers as things were at the time of the crime. ie they will be treated as minors and the judge is without the 'benefit' or harsher laws to combat racially motivated crimes. I hope this doesn't end up looking like grown men have got away with murder. They haven't got away with it, theyve been found guilty. It's quite correct that they be sentenced and minors as that is what they were when the crime was committed. FYI the starting point for this conviction is 12years. The judge can then take into account any mitigation or other factors. Given it is not actually certain who stabbed him and it was one do their group as mitigation but also the way they've shown no remorse and the circumctances around the case I am sure the punishment with be correct in accordance with precedents in British law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 (edited) I certainly hope this is wrong also. The thought of them being released due to 'time served on remand' and their gloating faces (hiding the fact that 'some foreigner is gonna be made to pay for this' is on their minds) will be another nail in the coffin of justice. Correct me if I am wrong, have they spent time on remand if they have it will only be months, IMO they should sentanced as adults (I know some will not agree) but they knew what they were doing when they took this young mans life. I only hope that they can get the other three into court and sentanced so that the family can start to get with life in some small way. Edited 4 January, 2012 by Toomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Correct me if I am wrong, have they spent time on remand if they have it will only be months, IMO they should sentanced as adults (I know some will not agree) but they knew what they were doing when they took this you mans life. I only hope that they can get the other three into court and sentanced so that the family can start to get with life in some small way. No it won't be don't be ridiculous, they haven't been on remand for years, its been since their rearrrest. That time will be taken into account when sentenced. IMO they'll get around 15 years and serve about 10-12 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 They haven't got away with it, theyve been found guilty. It's quite correct that they be sentenced and minors as that is what they were when the crime was committed. FYI the starting point for this conviction is 12years. The judge can then take into account any mitigation or other factors. Given it is not actually certain who stabbed him and it was one do their group as mitigation but also the way they've shown no remorse and the circumctances around the case I am sure the punishment with be correct in accordance with precedents in British law. Don't particularly disagree with any of that Turkish. My concern is how it might look. As I believe I wrote. I don't understand sentencing guidelines from 1983. But IF, all those years ago, minors would be given a 'clip round the ear' sentence for being part of gang attack, and if the racial element of the crime cannot be considered, then I worry that the sentence may appear lenient. Not incorrect in law. Just lenient. If you then look at the unrepentant adults that have been found guilty yesterday, it may make the law look ass-like and may remove the warm glow that many of us feel about justice having been served. Hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Sentencing right now according to the BBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Dobson gets just over 15 years, Norris gets just over 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Dobson gets just over 15 years, Norris gets just over 14 Minimum and that's very important. Mansfield QC suggesting that they will stay inside longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I'm sure there will be an appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Dobson gets just over 15 years, Norris gets just over 14 So my prediction of 15 was bang on the money. I should be a solicitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 So my prediction of 15 was bang on the money. I should be a solicitor. I think you'll find you're disqualified from being a solicitor. As BTF says, these are minimum sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Minimum and that's very important. Mansfield QC suggesting that they will stay inside longer. Agreed bridge too far. I suppose 15 and 14 years isn't a great deal by today's standards, as I believe racially aggravated stabbing carries a minimum 25 year sentence. But given their age at the time of the attack and the inability of the crown to determine who of the two (or others) dealt the fatal blow, it certainly represents some form of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I think you'll find you're disqualified from being a solicitor. As BTF says, these are minimum sentences. Edit - amended that is the minimum they'll spend in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 That is not how long they'll spend in prision though is it, unfortunately. That is how long the sentance is. I think it means that's how long AS A MINIMUM they'll be incarcerated before they're considered for release on licence. And that licence can be revoked if they re-offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Good to see justice has been done. Innocent until proven guilty (they have) and proper sentencing from the Judge. Almost makes me proud to be British! Which is more than I can say for the disgusting witch hunt on here earlier, whether they have been found guilty or not the presumption of innocence is a bedrock of justice in this and other developed nations, to lose this would be very sad indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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