Matthew Le God Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 a skills video with no goals and no assists. Watch it again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 How does the attitudes stink? The video you posted is a skills video with no goals and no assists. In fact if anything it shows that while he can run past a defender here or there he can't shoot and can't cross. There must of been 10 one on ones there and he missed them all..... As i tried to imply before are we buying/keeping players on their football ability or for sentimental reasons? I have respect for Lee as a person and what work he has put in the community. But i'd also like to respect him for his ability on the field and the things he has done for the team in the 3 years he has been here. After all the team is what we pay hundreds of pounds to see right?. And that is what he is paid thousands of pounds to be involved with right? So you might think it is a bad attitude or whatever but i think it is being realistic. If we signed a winger who had not scored a league goal in 3 years, made only 2 starts in 2 years and was injured for most of the past 36 months people would think it was a stupid deal. Why can that logic not apply to players we already have? And if you mention it then why does it make you look bad? Should someone like that be given a life long contract then? And Dubai i hope your right. Because i don't mind being wrong. I hope he stays fit and helps the team to get out of the NPC. Hope he plays above what we have seen of him and scores some vital goals. But i doubt the bookies would give you very good odds on that. As for the contract thing i am sure they would have a good case for it to be terminated by mutual consent. I don't think Lee would be the type to sit around doing nothing while picking up his cheque. But i am sure even he would understand if the club came to him and said look it's been over three years now. We stuck by you but we need to think of the future. And offer a termination deal. It happens at every club. Average salaries (for the non-hangers on at the time) as reported by the Echo around the time Holmes joined us were around 4k per week. (Similar to what Lloyd James was on) His current earnings will be around 200k per year. So again, let's try and put it a different way. You earn 200k a year. You have one more year to go on your employment contract but suffered an Indistrial injury for which you are not eligible for compensation restricting your ability to work properly. Your skills are not in demand because of the recession in the UK and you tell potential recruiters you think you are better but haven't had a full day at work to find out. Your boss says we will pay you off at half your contract. You know there is next to no chance that you will be employed again because you are very close to being on a disability benefit. What would you say to your boss? I HOPE he does get fully match fit. Point is he is under a contract and thanks to the Bosman ruling we cannot get rid of him. At LEAST he is not a Winston Bogarde and seems to be at least trying to give something back to the club and trying to get fit and into the team. Haven't once said anything about whether we should or should not keep him, simply that legally and pretty damned sure financially we have no choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Watch it again... I did. Now point out to me other then the league cup game the goals and assists? Because i couldn't see any. I can point out the times of when he is 1 on 1 and misses or when he has an almost open goal from 4 yards out and blazes over if you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 he is under contract.. what is the point of "getting rid"... he would have to be paid anyway so we save nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 he is under contract.. what is the point of "getting rid"... he would have to be paid anyway so we save nothing Balance up the cost of perhaps a compromise agreement where we settle early, but don't pay him everything he is due Vs keeping him and getting the odd game out of him (as nice as he may be, I'm always wary of having people around who are only going through the motions - that said, NA involved towards the end, so ultimately it's his shout, just I don't rate him as someone who will contribute to any potential promotion push). If he's willing to forego part of his last year, then I'd ship him out, freeing up a squad place for a youngster and only having players involved who really will contribute and add value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 I rate him, and think he could do a job for us next year...(IF FIT). Just with all the all the quality that is in the video, I think it sums it up that it is from about 3/4 matches. Don't get me wrong, I think he could be like a new signing next season, but I just can't see him being fit for that long. He comes back for 3 weeks and then he's crocked again. No reason to not keep him on board the bus though if he's got a contract anyway, see how much he's available for next season, and get rid of him when his contract expires if he's not good/fit enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 he is under contract.. what is the point of "getting rid"... he would have to be paid anyway so we save nothing Quite. And despite St Marco seemingly now dismissing subs appearances and cup appearances. They are appearances nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Balance up the cost of perhaps a compromise agreement where we settle early, but don't pay him everything he is due Vs keeping him and getting the odd game out of him (as nice as he may be, I'm always wary of having people around who are only going through the motions - that said, NA involved towards the end, so ultimately it's his shout, just I don't rate him as someone who will contribute to any potential promotion push). If he's willing to forego part of his last year, then I'd ship him out, freeing up a squad place for a youngster and only having players involved who really will contribute and add value. a compromise agreement..what if he said "no" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Furthermore this whole discussion cam about through this article: http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2360934,00.html He quite plainly is not thinking about leaving the club. Nigel might be hoping to move him on mind. I'd like to know what "upsetting some trees" means exactly though. If Lee were a tree he'd probably have Dutch elm disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Quite. And despite St Marco seemingly now dismissing subs appearances and cup appearances. They are appearances nonetheless. I am not dismissing them. I mentioned them above. Coming on with a couple of minutes to go is not really worth talking about. Starts are the things to look at. And a goal against then league two Exeter is not basis for getting excited about or saying he will be better in the NPC. As the saying goes the league is the bread and butter and that is what people are judged on. I didn't make this video but this is the level we are currently at http://youtu.be/VGh9Lc0OqYo Holmes is nowhere near that ability.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 I did. Now point out to me other then the league cup game the goals and assists? /QUOTE] Well you have changed the parameters now haven't you? Anyway what a ridiculous discussion this is, unless someone comes in with an offer (which is unlikely for obvious reasons), he isn't going anywhere. He has a year left on his contract and we aren't going to be paying that off anytime soon so there is literally no decision to be made on him. If he's fit and contributes something on the pitch great, if not...oh well what a shame, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 a compromise agreement..what if he said "no" Then you're in the world of Winston Bogarde. Of course, the difference might be that NA thinks Holmes has has a role to play, so this is all academic (but my opinion is he won't offer us anything next year due to not being up to scrtach and not being able to stay fit - would love to be proved wrong). As Phil and yourself say, if the player doesn't want to move on then there's nothing that can be done. Even freezing him out didn't seem to affect Bogarde (although the £40k a week pay cheque probably soothed his bruised ego). Some might argue it shows a lack of ambiton, being happy to take the money and not feature, whilst others could quite rightly say it would be a lot of money to turn down if there was no guarantee of earning the same elsewhere. Certainly don't begrudge Holmes for sticking it out, let's hope he sticks it out and turns in some performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Some might argue it shows a lack of ambiton, being happy to take the money and not feature, whilst others could quite rightly say it would be a lot of money to turn down if there was no guarantee of earning the same elsewhere. Certainly don't begrudge Holmes for sticking it out, let's hope he sticks it out and turns in some performances. Thing is he generally does feature when fit. Not feature feature but gets a squad place. If the poor f::cker could just stay fit more than five games at a time then we'd really have something to discuss here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 a compromise agreement..what if he said "no" Which he'd be a fool to, knowing his injury record. He is under contract and fully entitled to sit here and earn his living. I'd do the same to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yate Saint Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 I have not read this whole thread because I can't be bothered, but: I believe he was our best player during the Portaloo experiment and when he got injured that was the end of us. I just hope he stays fit next season as he would be a very useful player in the squad next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 I believe he was our best player during the Portaloo experiment and when he got injured that was the end of us. . I'm not sure a fit Lee Holmes would have turned that debacle of a season around!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 Some might argue it shows a lack of ambiton, being happy to take the money and not feature, whilst others could quite rightly say it would be a lot of money to turn down if there was no guarantee of earning the same elsewhere. Certainly don't begrudge Holmes for sticking it out, let's hope he sticks it out and turns in some performances. would you say the same about bart..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 18 May, 2011 Share Posted 18 May, 2011 would you say the same about bart..? I think most people would accept that there are some differences between Holmes and Bart, particularly the peculiar position of being 2nd choice goalkeeper. Although injured for a period, I think Bart has shown himself to be slightly more robust than Holmes and although he hasn't actually featured in many games I do think there is a difference between being on the bench at St Mary's and being on the bench of the treatment room of Staplewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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