New military covenant

[revolution saint]

Could someone explain exactly what it is? Seems like we're about to enshrine in law that members of the armed forces and their families should receive fair and decent treatment - isn't that what everyone is entitled to anyway? Not knocking the armed forces at all but this seems to be some kind of publicity stunt without any substance.

[Colinjb]

I understand it more as a constitutional protection for the families of armed forces members should they pay the ultimate price.

 

Perfectly just.

[revolution saint]

I understand it more as a constitutional protection for the families of armed forces members should they pay the ultimate price.

 

Perfectly just.

 

Rather than constitutional you mean an agreed death in service payment? Isn't that already the case?

[Gingeletiss]

It's simple......

 

‘Soldiers will be called upon to make personal sacrifices – including the ultimate sacrifice – in the service of the Nation. In putting the needs of the nation and the Army before their own, they forgo some of the rights enjoyed by those outside the Armed Forces. In return, British soldiers must always be able to expect fair treatment, to be valued and respected as individuals, and that they (and their families) will be sustained and rewarded by commensurate terms and conditions of service.’

 

....and it's not a new thing......

 

 

An early example of society’s obligations to those who have served in the Armed Forces can be found in the reign of Elizabeth I in the Act for the Necessary Relief of Soldiers and Necessary Relief of Soldiers and Mariners.

Passed in 1593, the law laid down that each parish should contribute some money to help sick and wounded veterans. An updated version of the Act in 1601 makes very clear society’s obligations towards those who have served in war:

‘And forasmuch as it is found more needful than it was in the making of the said Acts, to provide Relief and Maintenance to Soldiers and Mariners that have lost their limbs, and disabled their Bodies in the Defence and Service of her Majesty and the State, in respect the Number of the said Soldiers is so much the greater, by how much her Majesty’s just and honourable defensive Wars are increased.

[Justin C]

I think it is more to make sure they don't suffer from moving every couple of years. For example if they are forced to move to an area that a school is full the law makes sure they are entitled to a place in the school. As the theory is they have no choice where they are sent. This is just a small example, I can't see it helping many but it gives the government good pr!

[Thedelldays]

its about the MoD/Government keeping their end of the deal...

 

when you sign up you are promised X, Y and Z....yet that more often than not fails to happen..

 

for an example, up until 2007.. the main barrack block for junior rates in plymouth was a condemned building...it was condemned around 1994 yet they still housed people in it DESPITE "promising" to provide adequate living facilities..

 

would a nurse living in an NHS accomodation block deem it fit to live in a building that has been condemned for over a decade and can go for days/weeks without hot water..?

 

that is just one example

[View From The Top]

Politicians of all shades have been more than happy to send lads and lasses off to fight and die and washed their hands of them upon their return.

 

It's the general public of these shores, through things like H4H, that have shown how valued they really are and it has shamed politicians.

[Thedelldays]

Politicians of all shades have been more than happy to send lads and lasses off to fight and die and washed their hands of them upon their return.

 

It's the general public of these shores, through things like H4H, that have shown how valued they really are and it has shamed politicians.

it says something that when you go out to the middle east...upon arrival the first thing you do (not so much now) was find the nearest American camp so you can go scrounging for kit/materials

 

I remember in 2003.. I was in bahrain and my soles on my footware were peeling off due to the heat...they were almost gone and there were no spare boots around..I had to "tape" them up.....I mean, ffs

[revolution saint]

Some good points there - I'm not sure such a broad range can be made into legislation without more detail though and I still think it's stuff that armed forces should already be entitled to anyway. Ultimately it's the detail I'm interested in - without that it's cheap political slogans that make politicians look good and populist without actually doing anything.

[bridge too far]

I think the most important thing that needs to be addressed is the treatment that should be available to those who have psychological / mental problems once they come home or leave the forces.

 

I was staggered to learn today that more forces personnel have committed suicide than were killed in the Falklands War! That's a dreadful indictment of the way we treat people who fight on our behalf, regardless of whether the fight was justified.

[revolution saint]

I think the most important thing that needs to be addressed is the treatment that should be available to those who have psychological / mental problems once they come home or leave the forces.

 

I was staggered to learn today that more forces personnel have committed suicide than were killed in the Falklands War! That's a dreadful indictment of the way we treat people who fight on our behalf, regardless of whether the fight was justified.

 

Being pedantic I'd have to point out that it would depend on the date range of the sample - if you're talking the number of armed forces personnel who have committed suicide ever then it's not particularly surprising.

 

Of course you're right though - that kind of care should be readily available.

[bridge too far]

Being pedantic I'd have to point out that it would depend on the date range of the sample - if you're talking the number of armed forces personnel who have committed suicide ever then it's not particularly surprising.

 

Of course you're right though - that kind of care should be readily available.

 

I wasn't sure when I typed that post so I've been back to check. I learned this from an interview Sandi Toksveg gave on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

 

More armed forces, serving in the Falklands War, committed suicide than were killed in the actual conflict itself.

 

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Uk/uk.media.tv.misc/2011-05/msg01179.html

[Viking Warrior]

There is an initiative called Firm base being undertaken I guess this is part of the this conenant

 

Basically firm base is putting serviceman higher up the priority list for a number of areas,

Housing

Health

Education etc

 

When a serviceman has to leave the service for what ever reason thewt do not have the same priority as other people re housing

they have to wait a minimum of two years before the local councils are required to house them. Single parents, asylum seekers etc have a significantly higher priority than servicemen and women. This is about to change.

 

Health - again servicemen have a lower priority to health provision especially if you have been invalided out of the services due to injuries sustained on telic or herrick.

service personnel have to wait the same length us others for physio etc even though they may be amputees. Yes they still have access to rehab centres like headley court and edinburgh

 

But is you living in Orkney its a long way to go.

 

If anybody is living in fife or in falkirk you will see an awful lot of maimed and amuputee service personnel and they should be given

a higher priority than scroungers who know how to work the system

 

the convenant will force health and councils to ensure service personnel and their families get appropriate priorites

[bridge too far]

I can understand the point about housing. I also think it must be quite tough for forces' children, maybe having to change schools a lot.

 

But health treatment? I thought there was already specialist health provision. Isn't there a department at a Birmingham hospital specifically for wounded personnel? Set up a couple of years ago in recognition of the fact that it was best to have dedicated experts in the field of battle wounds in one place?

 

Once all interventions have been completed (and specialist physio done) then surely ANYONE who is an amputee should be entitled to further treatment according to individual need?

[View From The Top]

I can understand the point about housing. I also think it must be quite tough for forces' children, maybe having to change schools a lot.

 

But health treatment? I thought there was already specialist health provision. Isn't there a department at a Birmingham hospital specifically for wounded personnel? Set up a couple of years ago in recognition of the fact that it was best to have dedicated experts in the field of battle wounds in one place?

 

Once all interventions have been completed (and specialist physio done) then surely ANYONE who is an amputee should be entitled to further treatment according to individual need?

 

There is a specialist HM Forces ward at Selly Oak now and things have improved considerably but ask yourself why H4H was started and you'll get your answer regarding aftercare.

 

Most of us ex-forces types will tell you the same thing, The Man doesn't give a fat rat's @rse about the grunt once they are no longer of use or decide to leave the service.

[bridge too far]

Do you think this Covenant will cover the sort of help that H4H gives? I imagine there's not a lot of work done at the moment to address the mental health issues that are, I'm sure, of as much significance as the physical issues, if not more.

[View From The Top]

Do you think this Covenant will cover the sort of help that H4H gives? I imagine there's not a lot of work done at the moment to address the mental health issues that are, I'm sure, of as much significance as the physical issues, if not more.

 

To question A) It should do. To question B) It's been an issue as long as I can recall. I know a few lads who have had issues long after the event and there was no help forthcoming for them.

[revolution saint]

This has been useful in that it's actually highlighted those areas that need to be addressed rather than a fairly bland "servicemen should expect fair and decent treatment", I'm paraphrasing there but you get my drift.

 

Hopefully detail will emerge (although I wouldn't hold my breath) but so far it still seems to me a statement of rights that should already be in place.

[Thedelldays]

This has been useful in that it's actually highlighted those areas that need to be addressed rather than a fairly bland "servicemen should expect fair and decent treatment", I'm paraphrasing there but you get my drift.

 

Hopefully detail will emerge (although I wouldn't hold my breath) but so far it still seems to me a statement of rights that should already be in place.

im sure you can find what the covenant is all about....just it will become law soon enough instead of a "promise"

[Viking Warrior]

Bridge

 

H4H H4H has committed to raise more than £80m to build the Personnel Recovery Centres (PRCs) in Colchester, Catterick, Tidworth and Plymouth and has already been funding the 'Pathfinder Centre' in conjunction with Erskine Scotland in Edinburgh. The Royal British Legion has agreed to fund the day to day running costs of the centres as well as fund the Battle Back Challenge Centre: about £50m over ten years.

 

They have been set geographically to amke it easier to get two. At present only Edinburgh is open with the others starting to be built or in the plannig stage. yes there is selly oak ,

 

I will go on the soap box about that, Labour did away with most of the service hospitals, and then the conservatives killed the remainder. Yes we have a unit at frimley and cattterick . Selly oak was contentious. Do You Remember that soldiers were put on general wards at selly oak and members of the public moaned about them being there, birming has a very large asian community) I think the sun probably embellished some of the concerns. This lead to a separate unit being set up for service personnel.

 

Given the lack of facilities for service personel across the country, they do get discrimiated against especially when they are discharged therefore the convenant covering critical areas such as health are important.

To be fair to local authorities and health services they may not know retired service personnel are in the area. so will not have the service medical history. The FMed 4 and hospital notes are retained by the military there is not a seemless service between the miliary medical services and NHS. This is one area that is going to change

 

medical traetment particularly in for the services in afghan is the best in the world , from the point of injury to medivac to bastion or kandahar and back to selly oak and rehab at headley court is fanastic better than your A and E in the uk

 

Finally I had my knee op just over a week ago and I have to wait 6 to 8 weeks before I see a physio due to the waiting list,

#

 

 

The services are trying to change the

[Viking Warrior]

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