FMPR Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Its the only model you can follow in order to get top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Its the only model you can follow in order to get top 4. Not at all... Did Everton spend £300m on transfer and pay £90k per week to players to get 4th spot a few years ago? A good manager, academy and sensible recruitment got them to 4th a mere 6 years ago. Yes, the League has changed since 2005, but with sound infrastructure and sensible planning, it isn't beyond the realms of possibilities especially if Man City, Chelsea etc run into trouble with the UEFA regulations. A mere 15 years ago, Chelsea's attendances in the Premier League were lower than Saints in League One this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Not at all... Did Everton spend £300m on transfer and pay £90k per week to players to get 4th spot a few years ago? A good manager, academy and sensible recruitment got them to 4th a mere 6 years ago. Yes, the League has changed since 2005, but with sound infrastructure and sensible planning, it isn't beyond the realms of possibilities especially if Man City, Chelsea etc run into trouble with the UEFA regulations. A mere 15 years ago, Chelsea's attendances in the Premier League were lower than Saints in League One this season. Things can change... but it is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2011 but it is now Is it always going to be now? Or will time tick on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Is it always going to be now? Or will time tick on? who knows..but right now, you need £200-300m quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2011 who knows..but right now, you need £200-300m quid Have Arsenal spent that much to assemble their current squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Have Arsenal spent that much to assemble their current squad? yes....they have spent a friking fortune to remain in the top 4...their stadium being part of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2011 yes....they have spent a friking fortune to remain in the top 4...their stadium being part of it That isn't £300m on the players though is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMPR Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 But before you can even think about Champions League footy you have to get up and stay up which is far harder now than ever before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 That isn't £300m on the players though is it? hmmm...I bet if you wracked up the cost of their team/wages it would be a farking hude amount.. the cost of wenger and rice would be immense.. I said we would need to spend £200-300m....which for saints and who we have in charge, is never ever going to happen.. why dont you just accept that is the most likely outcome rather than being the usual anal pedantic person and using any tiny fact to prove some sort of point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 May, 2011 But before you can even think about Champions League footy you have to get up and stay up which is far harder now than ever before Yep, I know it would be many years before Saints could really even consider such a push if it were indeed possible for such a club. Need to get to the Premier League first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 The exciting thing about Saints now is not just that we actually win matches but that we are laying the foundation for an entirely different model of club, we are not so much buying a winning set up, as producing it, another reason NC won't sell Oxo in a hurry, he and the others to follow are the future, its gonna be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 I'm more concerned about building a team capable of getting out of the Championship. As for spending the collosal amounts to challenge for the top 4 european places - I can't see it happening. And i'm not sure i'd want it to happen if it meant ticket prices went through the roof and away games became only available for season ticket holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 (edited) Not at all... Did Everton spend £300m on transfer and pay £90k per week to players to get 4th spot a few years ago? A good manager, academy and sensible recruitment got them to 4th a mere 6 years ago. Yes, the League has changed since 2005, but with sound infrastructure and sensible planning, it isn't beyond the realms of possibilities especially if Man City, Chelsea etc run into trouble with the UEFA regulations. A mere 15 years ago, Chelsea's attendances in the Premier League were lower than Saints in League One this season. Everton had a good season - and have done very little since. Most Everton fans are pessimistic about the future because of the financial constraints they are operating under. If its unnecessary to do a City, how much do you think will need to be spent on players and infrastructure to enable us to knock at the door of the top 4? At the very least, £80-100m at least in transfer fees? £25-40m in wages? Whatever sum you come up with will no doubt require a pretty fundamental change in our business model. There are lots of teams - Aston Villa, Sunderland - that have invested big and sensibly but are way off the pace. If you asked teams in the top half of the table (outside the top four) what the main goal was at the start of the season, most would have responded survival. If anything, teams are having to spend more and more to avoid relegation - forget actually challenging. Edited 14 May, 2011 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 May, 2011 Share Posted 14 May, 2011 Yeah, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 15 May, 2011 Author Share Posted 15 May, 2011 a pretty fundamental change in our business model. Why? Cortese said in the dinner parties and this scout has now confirmed it, that the Champions League is the aim. Thus that is the long term business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Why? Cortese said in the dinner parties and this scout has now confirmed it, that the Champions League is the aim. Thus that is the long term business model. champions league is the aim for nearly all 92 chairman...CL was the aim of rupert lowe just accept it is not going to happen...then move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 hmmm...I bet if you wracked up the cost of their team/wages it would be a farking hude amount.. the cost of wenger and rice would be immense.. I said we would need to spend £200-300m....which for saints and who we have in charge, is never ever going to happen.. why dont you just accept that is the most likely outcome rather than being the usual anal pedantic person and using any tiny fact to prove some sort of point What makes you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 What makes you say that? what has happened so far..not being held to ransom for the likes of CMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 we didn't need CMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 what has happened so far..not being held to ransom for the likes of CMS Because we didn't NEED to shell out for him. They said from the outset that we would do this whole thing the right way. No do a Man City and buy the best 10 strikers in the division and have a squad of players but would build a team. Cortese & Adkins said prior to January that we had targets and seemed like they didnt come off but we have no idea who they were after. I think now that we are in a much stronger position we may see quite how strongly we are being backed by the Liebherr's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 (edited) Not at all... Did Everton spend £300m on transfer and pay £90k per week to players to get 4th spot a few years ago? A good manager, academy and sensible recruitment got them to 4th a mere 6 years ago. Yes, the League has changed since 2005, but with sound infrastructure and sensible planning, it isn't beyond the realms of possibilities especially if Man City, Chelsea etc run into trouble with the UEFA regulations. A mere 15 years ago, Chelsea's attendances in the Premier League were lower than Saints in League One this season. A good academy you say? To be a consistant top 4 club you are talking about a team of some of the worlds best players coming through the academy, all coming through at the same time, like they did at Barcelona, one of the biggest clubs in the world. Like they did at Man United in the 90's with Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. To a lesser extent what Arsenal have done now but without the honours. How likely do you think it is for a club like Saints to have the best young players in the world, all coming through the ranks at the same time? All staying and wanting to play for SFC and no one else when only two of the worlds biggest clubs have managed this with success in terms on honours in the last 20 years? You are talking about developing a team of the standard of Beckham, Scholes, Bale etc all coming through the ranks at the same time. There are no room for David McGoldricks in a champions league club academy. You use the example of Everton, Everton had one great season and have done little since. They've had some good young players, but what happened when the best one came through their ranks? Oh thats right, he couldn't wait to join Man United, despite being an Everton fan. A good manager you say. Although it pains me to say it, look what happened when the current best English manager around realised he had done all he could down the road, he couldn't wait to get to Tottenham. Aston Villa, doing well, looking at a regular top 6 finish, Milner and Barry couldn't get to Man City quick enough when they got the call. O'Neill quits because of it. If you really think being a champions league club is as simple as getting a decent academy and bringing a load of young players in and decent manager, paying them all a relatively moderate wage and they'll all be up for it to fullfill the chairmans vision then why isn't every club doing it? Edited 15 May, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 A good academy you say? To be a consistant top 4 club you are talking about a team of some of the worlds best players coming through the academy, all coming through at the same time, like they did at Barcelona, one of the biggest clubs in the world. Like they did at Man United in the 90's with Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc. How likely do you think it is for a club like Saints to have the best young players in the world, all coming through the ranks at the same time? All staying and wanting to play for SFC and no one else when only two of the worlds biggest clubs have managed this in the last 20 years? You are talking about developing a team of the standard of Beckham, Scholes, Bale etc all at the same time. There are no room for David McGoldricks in a champions league club academy. You use the example of Everton, Everton had one great season and have done little since. They've had some good young players, but what happened when the best one came through their ranks? Oh thats right, he couldn't wait to join Man United, despite being an Everton fan. A good manager you say. Although it pains me to say it, look what happened when the current best English manager around realised he had done all he could down the road, he couldn't wait to get to Tottenham. Aston Villa, doing well, looking at a regular top 6 finish, Milner and Barry couldn't get to Man City quick enough when they got the call. O'Neill quits because of it. If you really think being a champions league club is as simple as getting a decent academy and bringing a load of young players in and decent manager, paying them all a relatively moderate wage and they'll all be up for it to fullfill the chairmans vision then why isn't every club doing it? Clubs like Ajax and Lyon manage to do quite well off their academy. It's nowhere near the standard you have mentioned of course but it could make us contenders if not in any way major players, I'd like think at some point we could at least be challenging for Eufa spots if I have no illusions about regular CL football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 (edited) Clubs like Ajax and Lyon manage to do quite well off their academy. It's nowhere near the standard you have mentioned of course but it could make us contenders if not in any way major players, I'd like think at some point we could at least be challenging for Eufa spots if I have no illusions about regular CL football. And Ajax are the biggest club in Holland a country renowned for producing great footballers, they have the pick of the best young dutch players. Lyon are a regular champions league knock out stage team and one of Frances biggest clubs. Both of them end up selling their players on to the bigger clubs in Europe after a couple of seasons. I agree with you, i can see us being an established mid table club who can maybe push for a Euro league slot or a cup win if we are lucky but anyone who thinks we are going to be a regular champions league side is seriously deluded. People like MLG keep saying why cant we, Well can someone please explain why we can and give examples of others who have consitantly been top 4 without spending big. Not half arsed facts like Arsenal haven't spent hundreds of millions and Chelsea had smaller attendances than us 20 years ago. How does a club like Southampton become a champions league side and if it's as easy as getting a few decent young players together, why isn't everyone doing it? Edited 15 May, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Realistically, we can be a club that oscillates between the Premier League and the Championship. Occasionaly we might get good run in the cups, which we could win. Also, we can expect to make the news with the occasional bloody nosing of the likes of Chelski and Manure. We are in the same mould as Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich and WBA. I would be happy with that. If people want more then they would be advised to support a plastic team, but that is a souless pursuit ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Clubs like Ajax and Lyon manage to do quite well off their academy. It's nowhere near the standard you have mentioned of course but it could make us contenders if not in any way major players, I'd like think at some point we could at least be challenging for Eufa spots if I have no illusions about regular CL football. Lyon and Ajax survive by selling all their stars to england, spain, italy or even germany. And their managers tend to flee to bigger jobs too. And those clubs get regular european football on the back of being in weak leagues. Clubs like that prove how hard it is for small english clubs. Lyon in the PL would just be a mid table feeder club. Saints won't be anywhere near the champs league anytime soon. Which is absolutely fine by me. After all, i happen to live in the real world, not the world of the idle pipe dreams of our current chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Realistically, we can be a club that oscillates between the Premier League and the Championship. Occasionaly we might get good run in the cups, which we could win. Also, we can expect to make the news with the occasional bloody nosing of the likes of Chelski and Manure. We are in the same mould as Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich and WBA. I would be happy with that. If people want more then they would be advised to support a plastic team, but that is a souless pursuit ! Finally the day has come. I Agree completely with a dalek post. Spot on. We are what we are, and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Lyon and Ajax survive by selling all their stars to england, spain, italy or even germany. And their managers tend to flee to bigger jobs too. And those clubs get regular european football on the back of being in weak leagues. Clubs like that prove how hard it is for small english clubs. Lyon in the PL would just be a mid table feeder club. Saints won't be anywhere near the champs league anytime soon. Which is absolutely fine by me. After all, i happen to live in the real world, not the world of the idle pipe dreams of our current chairman. Dont forget there are a few on here who have probably taken Saints to the champions league on FM11, so it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Dont forget there are a few on here who have probably taken Saints to the champions league on FM11, so it is possible. Never mind Saints, I've won the champions league with Eastleigh (admittedly on FM10... still working on FM11) In any case, we have owners and management that want us in the Champions League, and have already turned several years of decline into an awesome positive feeling around the club. Given the financial backing we have, I'm certainly not going to say it's impossible for us to reach the Champions League. I admit I don't know exactly how we're going to do it. It might be that plans have to change based on whether financial fair play proves successful or not. No doubt Cortese will make mistakes, as he already has, but he's shown that he learns incredibly quickly, and has thrown himself headlong into trying to make Saints one of the biggest clubs in the country. For now, sat in the Championship, still happy about an awesome promotion season, I'm going to sit here and enjoy the ride, and be content with the possibility that he just might succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 Never mind Saints, I've won the champions league with Eastleigh (admittedly on FM10... still working on FM11) In any case, we have owners and management that want us in the Champions League, and have already turned several years of decline into an awesome positive feeling around the club. Given the financial backing we have, I'm certainly not going to say it's impossible for us to reach the Champions League. I admit I don't know exactly how we're going to do it. It might be that plans have to change based on whether financial fair play proves successful or not. No doubt Cortese will make mistakes, as he already has, but he's shown that he learns incredibly quickly, and has thrown himself headlong into trying to make Saints one of the biggest clubs in the country. For now, sat in the Championship, still happy about an awesome promotion season, I'm going to sit here and enjoy the ride, and be content with the possibility that he just might succeed. 100% this. Exactly in the same boat as you, just going to enjoy playing in the championship. IMO the best league there is. Much more of an even playing field and so many good, proper football clubs in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 It is a dream, but it is also an aim. [sNIP] ..So, I'm not going to start bragging in a Ho-like manner that we will get there, but as an aim it is totally justified. Of course it is. If (when..) we get to the Premiership it will be interesting to see if they adapt the business model and how they think we'll get to that higher level. But don't you feel more confident in our backing and management than the twonks at West Ham or Newcastle, let alone the leveraged buyout clubs that are having to pay their new owners for the privilege of being bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint J 77 Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 There is nothing wrong with aiming high even if it does seem very unlikely right now or even for our distant future. What I would really like to know is if this Director of European Recruitment is offical yet? or this article a load of rubbish? Surely this would be a story on the OS by now if it were offical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 look.. all this talk about setting the bar etc... just remember one thing.. "we are southampton, we'll do what we want" and if that means signing michael owen...then we will do so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 on level of crowds and therefore income we would sit upper / mid premiership. Guess this would be our natural level, however we have better youth set up than most so 8th prem is very realistic regular level to aim for. 2nd in championship will do for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 15 May, 2011 Share Posted 15 May, 2011 look.. all this talk about setting the bar etc... just remember one thing.. "we are southampton, we'll do what we want" and if that means signing michael owen...then we will do so.. I wouldn't want us to sign the ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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