Saganowski goes on loan

[Greenridge]

don't think people are saying they want shot of him, more some are saying club are idiots for getting rid of him and others realising we are broke and perhaps can live without him.

He may come back a better player as last season he did need to build his confidence.

 

Sorry Nick but that's exactly what many posters are implying if not stating in black and white. We are being continually fed information that a number of players aren't interested etc etc. They just happen to be the higher wage drawers in the Club. Coincidence? As with most things on this forum, the views are dictated by pro or anti-Lowe opinions and not on the reality of the situation at hand.

[sql]

Absolutely gutted

 

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

 

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear . Disappointing really.

[alpine_saint]

Absolutely gutted

 

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

 

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear . Disappointing really.

 

Sounds like Rupert Lowe's style..........

 

Leopards never change their spots. Looks like Saga was never given the chance to show he wanted to play for the shirt. So much for that boooolox about not keeping players who cant be bothered.

[ozzmeister]

I assume its confirmed on the OS that its a loan, i only say because telegraph write it as a 5mill transfer?

[buctootim]

telegraph write it as a 5mill transfer?

 

That would be fantastic news if accurate, which I massively doubt.

[ozzmeister]

That would be fantastic news if accurate, which I massively doubt.

 

Is what i thought and not like the telegraph to be inaccurate but very little of the media world care enough about saints to actually do their research. Maybe it is a 5mill future fee?

[saintwarwick]

Sounds like Rupert Lowe's style..........

 

Leopards never change their spots. Looks like Saga was never given the chance to show he wanted to play for the shirt. So much for that boooolox about not keeping players who cant be bothered.

 

More to do with offloading a player on high wages.

[alpine_saint]

More to do with offloading a player on high wages.

 

And its the blanket off-loading without thinking whether any one of them could turn a mediocre season into something special that is the most infuriating aspect of this activity.

 

Lowe looks at bank balance first, last, always.

 

And if I were Saga I'd be a bit ****ed at the spin coming out that all of these players have no hunger and are disinterested.

[sql]

One more thing about Saga: He also wrote on his site that he had many offers from other Championship clubs but he chose Denmark. Hope it will be seen as his commitement to Saints - not wanting to be Saints rival and not wanting to score against his former club. I dont believe we will ever see Saga again in a Saits shirt. Bye

 

gutted

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Absolutely gutted

 

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

 

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear . Disappointing really.

 

If this is true it is damming evidence that Lowe is calling the shots with the team and the dutch man doing as he is told.

[Wes Tender]

I have an inkling that a game like today's is one where Saga would have shone and added the necessary bite in the final third that we seemed to be missing. But we might never know now, as apparently Mr "Never mind the quality feel the width" Lowe seems to have made up his mind that Saga's wages are too much. If things continue in this vein and John doesn't make up for this deficiency, the penny might eventually drop. I wonder whether there will be enough time before the season's end to remedy the situation?

[saintwarwick]

And its the blanket off-loading without thinking whether any one of them could turn a mediocre season into something special that is the most infuriating aspect of this activity.

 

Lowe looks at bank balance first, last, always.

 

And if I were Saga I'd be a bit ****ed at the spin coming out that all of these players have no hunger and are disinterested.

 

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

[Arizona]

I have an inkling that a game like today's is one where Saga would have shone and added the necessary bite in the final third that we seemed to be missing. But we might never know now, as apparently Mr "Never mind the quality feel the width" Lowe seems to have made up his mind that Saga's wages are too much. If things continue in this vein and John doesn't make up for this deficiency, the penny might eventually drop. I wonder whether there will be enough time before the season's end to remedy the situation?

 

From what I've heard, i.e. having very little possesion, nothing sticking up front and being under the cosh for large parts, Saga was exactly what we needed up front today. Someone to work hard and put pressure on the defence. We never lost a game Saga started under Pearson.

 

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

 

I know we have to cut costs, but if we are still losing money now, something somewhere is seriously f*cked up. If we lose John, Rasiak, Skacel, Euell and Davis we are practically playing the youth team, plus a couple of old freebies who surely must be at the lower end of the CCC wage bill.

 

I know we could never afford a squad full of IIs, Powells, BWPs, Claus' etc filling up the wage bill without delivering on the pitch, but f*ck me surely having more than 5 players on more than a youth contract isn't going to bankrupt us.

[Greenridge]

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

 

And you can't seem to grasp that sliding down the league table(s) with associated diminishing income is a false economy.

[Rattlehead]

Amazing really. Anyone remember this time last year when this forum was going into meltdown when it looked like we might not sign Saga?

 

Absolute uproar about how much of a disgrace it would be if we didn't etc etc etc.

 

Saga is a classic example of a player that if we didn't sign him permanently people would be going on about him forever more as the person that could have taken us to the next level etc etc.

 

Now? On your bike son.

 

You are very tedious/tiresome, it has to be said. Yawn.

[alpine_saint]

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

 

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

 

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

 

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

[saintwarwick]

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

 

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

 

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

 

Please provide evidence of this, thanks.

[saintwarwick]

And you can't seem to grasp that sliding down the league table(s) with associated diminishing income is a false economy.

 

I don't work for the bank and fortunately can grasp the fact that sliding down the table will decrease our income, however the bank doesn't see it that way, they want to take a large slice of debt up front in case the inevitable happens.

[Wes Tender]

From what I've heard, i.e. having very little possesion, nothing sticking up front and being under the cosh for large parts, Saga was exactly what we needed up front today. Someone to work hard and put pressure on the defence. We never lost a game Saga started under Pearson.

 

I know we have to cut costs, but if we are still losing money now, something somewhere is seriously f*cked up. If we lose John, Rasiak, Skacel, Euell and Davis we are practically playing the youth team, plus a couple of old freebies who surely must be at the lower end of the CCC wage bill.

 

I know we could never afford a squad full of IIs, Powells, BWPs, Claus' etc filling up the wage bill without delivering on the pitch, but f*ck me surely having more than 5 players on more than a youth contract isn't going to bankrupt us.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. And as somebody else commented so pertinently, if we do require any of the oldies to step forward to cover for injuries to any of the youngsters, any who remain, that is, what is their mental attitude going to be? If they were to think, right, you want me now you're in the sh*t, it will be quite understandable.

[alpine_saint]

Please provide evidence of this, thanks.

 

It's obviously pointless discussing with you. You know this is the case, you are just being bloody-minded.

[Saint Martini]

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

 

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

 

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

 

So where do you find this money then? It seems to me that pretty much any other way of cutting costs has already been implemented so there's not much left except letting highearners go. I'm sure if you have some other brilliant idea on how to cut costs Lowe will be all ears.

[NickG]

It's obviously pointless discussing with you. You know this is the case, you are just being bloody-minded.

 

think its more likely Lowe listed more expensive players and indicated how much was needed to save and JP decided where the prioroties lay.

[alpine_saint]

So where do you find this money then? It seems to me that pretty much any other way of cutting costs has already been implemented so there's not much left except letting highearners go. I'm sure if you have some other brilliant idea on how to cut costs Lowe will be all ears.

 

OK, for starters:

 

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

Edited 10 August, 2008 by alpine_saint

[alpine_saint]

think its more likely Lowe listed more expensive players and indicated how much was needed to save and JP decided where the prioroties lay.

 

So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

[Colinjb]

Best of luck Saga. How the carrott is large enough to stir your interest.

[Saint Martini]

OK, for starters:

 

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

 

 

Well, maybe Poortvliet could choose and preferred BWP. If they are on the same amount then I'm sure Lowe would have said. Look Jan, we gotta save another 10k. Who do you want to keep from:

 

Davies

BWP

Skacel

Rasiak

John

Viafara

 

Also, BWP is more likely to improve and is younger so he is more of an asset to the club then Saga.

 

So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

 

No, but wel only play with one striker. In Holland having two strikers when playing 4 3 3 is considered to be fine. Especially if you have some players that could play in the striker role if needed.

[saintwarwick]

OK, for starters:

 

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

 

Is he on more or less than Saga?

[farawaysaint]

OK, for starters:

 

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

 

BWP is being used as a winger where he can exploit his pace.

[NickG]

So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

 

sure he would want to keep them all, but if it was a balancing act and meant keeping Davies, Surman, Svensson etc, what do you suggest?

[farawaysaint]

sure he would want to keep them all, but if it was a balancing act and meant keeping Davies, Surman, Svensson etc, what do you suggest?

 

I would suggest having no strike force and a good defence is comparably bad to having a great strike force and a cr@p defence.

[NickG]

Stern John

BWP

Rasiak

McGoldrick

[alpine_saint]

I would suggest having no strike force and a good defence is comparably bad to having a great strike force and a cr@p defence.

 

Completely agree. McG has had a great pre-season and first game, but will he keep it up ?

 

We have transfer-list almost every other forward at the club, and consequently have massively restricted our options.

 

My fear is that we will only play with one tactic and tempo like under Burley, and the opposition will quickly learn how to neutrallise us.

Edited 11 August, 2008 by alpine_saint

[Greenridge]

Well, maybe Poortvliet could choose and preferred BWP. If they are on the same amount then I'm sure Lowe would have said. Look Jan, we gotta save another 10k. Who do you want to keep from:

 

Davies

BWP

Skacel

Rasiak

John

Viafara

 

Also, BWP is more likely to improve and is younger so he is more of an asset to the club then Saga.

 

 

 

No, but wel only play with one striker. In Holland having two strikers when playing 4 3 3 is considered to be fine. Especially if you have some players that could play in the striker role if needed.

 

That of course is completely subjective, I don't think he's a patch of Saga.

[alpine_saint]

Is he on more or less than Saga?

 

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

 

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

 

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

[Wes Tender]

Completely agree. McG has had a great season and first game, but will he keep it up ?

 

We have transfer-list almost every other forward at the club, and consequently have massively restricted our options.

 

My fear is that we will only play with one tactic and tempo like under Burley, and the opposition will quickly learn how to neutrallise us.

 

Just as the Dutch were neutralised in the European Championships after making a fantastic start. The difference between them and us was the undoubted quality that the Dutch team had at their disposal, whereas we have had to sell quite a lot of ours.

[No 2 to Maybush]

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

 

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

 

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

 

Although I sympathise with your sentiment, the Chairman is still firefighting to keep the club afloat as a going concern. We have sold a few players, released a few players, signed some (cheaper) players, yet still have around half a dozen players on the books who we are having to pay top dollar to. I would guess the situation is still untenable and Rupert will be desperate to get rid of at least another 3 high wage earners before the end of August.

 

We are still broke Alpine. The last 3 months have seen the club desperately trying to reduce its overheads. JP has been given a brief to assemble a team for the season, and, as has been posted previously, been told which of the high wage earners we are looking to move on. It is unrealistic therefore, to expect JP to include these players in his plans. He will be looking at starting the season with as settled a squad as possible, in order to minimise dispruption and create a focus. As to results, we have played 1 competitive game. It is hypothesis on your part that playing any of the older pros on our books will provide improved results. Our current stats are 0/1. Let's wait a few more league games before we start the self immolation, eh? :cool:

[alpine_saint]

Although I sympathise with your sentiment, the Chairman is still firefighting to keep the club afloat as a going concern. We have sold a few players, released a few players, signed some (cheaper) players, yet still have around half a dozen players on the books who we are having to pay top dollar to. I would guess the situation is still untenable and Rupert will be desperate to get rid of at least another 3 high wage earners before the end of August.

 

We are still broke Alpine. The last 3 months have seen the club desperately trying to reduce its overheads. JP has been given a brief to assemble a team for the season, and, as has been posted previously, been told which of the high wage earners we are looking to move on. It is unrealistic therefore, to expect JP to include these players in his plans. He will be looking at starting the season with as settled a squad as possible, in order to minimise dispruption and create a focus. As to results, we have played 1 competitive game. It is hypothesis on your part that playing any of the older pros on our books will provide improved results. Our current stats are 0/1. Let's wait a few more league games before we start the self immolation, eh? :cool:

 

Hmmm..If the club is so completely f**ked financially that the mid-to-long-term results benefits - of keeping any one of, say, the top seven wager earners under any circumstances - were completely disregarded, then the whole club is f**ked and Lowe is just postponing the inveitable.

 

I refuse to believe that all of the top earners could provide zero impact on the success of our season whilst drawing those wages, and that Pootvilet didnt see any value at all in keeping any of them for the way he wants to play. He is a manager. I believe he would recognise strenghts and weaknesses in all his players, and would have relished the challenge of remotivating and getting the best out of a couple of them.

[saintwarwick]

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

 

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

 

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

 

You didn't answer my question.

[alpine_saint]

You didn't answer my question.

 

I did. I answered that your question is irrelevant. Sorry you missed that.

[NickG]

as is seeing a player before you slag him off?

[CB Fry]

Have I missed something, or did Saga score three goals in thirty games last season?

 

How does that make him irreplaceable and how is it a disaster if we've shipped him out.

 

Last time I looked three in thirty for a striker on £8-10k per week is rubbish.

[alpine_saint]

Have I missed something, or did Saga score three goals in thirty games last season?

 

How does that make him irreplaceable and how is it a disaster if we've shipped him out.

 

Last time I looked three in thirty for a striker on £8-10k per week is rubbish.

 

The same player scored about 10 in 11 apperances the season before, when he was the apple of the managers eye.

 

He was treat like crap last season.

[alpine_saint]

as is seeing a player before you slag him off?

 

sorry, no idea what you are going on about.

[Saint Martini]

That of course is completely subjective, I don't think he's a patch of Saga.

 

Its not that subjective at all, taking into account Saga's age there's now way he going to be worth any significant money at any point in the future. BWP might be worth money because he has a large chunk of his footballing life left. That plus the fact that they are both deemed good enough for the Saints first team just means that BWP is a better investment then Saga. It is not a judgement of their respective football qualities, that would be subjective, but a judgement of their wage, age & stats (as in matches played & goals scored).

[saintwarwick]

I did. I answered that your question is irrelevant. [b/Sorry you missed that[/b].

 

What I did miss was your answer, something you have failed to provide.

[Saint Martini]

Just as the Dutch were neutralised in the European Championships after making a fantastic start. The difference between them and us was the undoubted quality that the Dutch team had at their disposal, whereas we have had to sell quite a lot of ours.

 

The other difference is that Holland were playing a team of undoubted quality and we won't really be playing those...

[alpine_saint]

What I did miss was your answer, something you have failed to provide.

 

Whatever. Suggest you troll someone else.

[CB Fry]

The same player scored about 10 in 11 apperances the season before, when he was the apple of the managers eye.

 

He was not playing for a lucrative contract last season therefore didn't need to perform at the level he achieved the previous season

 

.

 

Changed it for you.

 

Footballers on £8-£12k a week (just the half a million quid in his sky rocket) don't get "treated like crap". Diddums.

 

30 games is enough of a chance to score some bloody goals, isn't it?

[the_barmy_saints_army]

he is a prospect =, he got picked for poland over rasiak! u know wot he can do. i would say thats a bad move!

[Wes Tender]

The other difference is that Holland were playing a team of undoubted quality and we won't really be playing those...

 

But taking things down to our level, the fact is that the style of play was negated by the clever use of tactics to counter it. The clever managers in this division will watch how we play others and set out a strategy to negate our play or counter it. The Holland team's style was negated and countered and showed the way that it can be done.