why do you people tolerate this sort of thing

[Window Cleaner]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3772566.Pupils_go_on_rampage_at_city_school/

 

 

Is Britain in general and Southampton in particular as degenerate as that.

These are kids, they need their parents to give them a good smacking, if not they'll all end up either pregnant at 16 or in juvey.

[Saint_clark]

Not condoning it, but IMO this is the sort of thing we could be seeing on a much larger scale in the next few years. I've always thought that schools are mini-societies, and the reactions of the citizens/pupils to how the school/country is being run will never differ too much.

[Flyer]

Oh dear, I know someone who teaches there and they say staff are overworked, people have already left, others are looking into leaving and people were off sick with stress after 2 weeks.

 

When I was at school, students would have been physically stopped from doing that, now the teachers would be had up for assault if they restrain kids from doing as they please.

[Ponty]

"We" people?

[Window Cleaner]

Oh dear, I know someone who teaches there and they say staff are overworked, people have already left, others are looking into leaving and people were off sick with stress after 2 weeks.

 

When I was at school, students would have been physically stopped from doing that, now the teachers would be had up for assault if they restrain kids from doing as they please.

 

But then,although I have not much recent first hand knowledge of life in the UK, isn't Britain a degenerate hedonistic society?

Money is all that counts. That's why all your banks are in serious brown.

 

People can't even accept being refused a loan, they just hawk their mortgage(s) around till they find someone who'll lend them more for bigger cars and flasher holidays.

[Kadeem Hardison]

When Grange Hill merged with Brookdale and Rodney Bennett schools there was this kind of tension. But on the bright side, Zammo got together with Jackie. Banksie wasn't happy about it though.

[revolution saint]

But then,although I have not much recent first hand knowledge of life in the UK, isn't Britain a degenerate hedonistic society?

Money is all that counts. That's why all your banks are in serious brown.

 

People can't even accept being refused a loan, they just hawk their mortgage(s) around till they find someone who'll lend them more for bigger cars and flasher holidays.

 

I'm sorry, what's your point? That riots in a school are caused by a 'degenerate hedonistic money obsessed society'?

[Window Cleaner]

I'm sorry, what's your point? That riots in a school are caused by a 'degenerate hedonistic money obsessed society'?

 

No, badly behaved youngsters are caused by said society?

Is that not possible. That's the way it comes over to non-UK residents

We have the extreme pleasure of seeing a representative cross section of

British society drunk and disorderly in town squares,throwing terrace furniture about, puking up in cabs, ****ging on beaches etc etc. Perhaps we just get the low life chavs though.

[St Landrew]

This is what you get when you look to live in a freer society, tolerant of behaviour and views. There are plusses, but there are minuses too. The present government are trying to bring in legislation to curb freedoms, or at least, keep tabs on people.

 

Someone was going on earlier about Human Rights. Can you see a conflict of interest..?

[Saint Martini]

Oh dear, I know someone who teaches there and they say staff are overworked, people have already left, others are looking into leaving and people were off sick with stress after 2 weeks.

 

When I was at school, students would have been physically stopped from doing that, now the teachers would be had up for assault if they restrain kids from doing as they please.

 

The physical punishment of children in schools has been banished from school in the rest of Europe much longer and they didn't have problems like this about 10-20 years ago. I do not think its due to that but more society in general that these things evolve. But can someone tell me why the school just doesn't report it to the police and charges everyone in the group of 150 with vandalism? Even if you miss a few you'll get most like that and I'm not sure if its the same in the UK but in Holland you don't have to prove exactely who did what. If you don't distance youself from the group you are responsible for their actions.

[Window Cleaner]

The physical punishment of children in schools has been banished from school in the rest of Europe much longer and they didn't have problems like this about 10-20 years ago. I do not think its due to that but more society in general that these things evolve. But can someone tell me why the school just doesn't report it to the police and charges everyone in the group of 150 with vandalism? Even if you miss a few you'll get most like that and I'm not sure if its the same in the UK but in Holland you don't have to prove exactely who did what. If you don't distance youself from the group you are responsible for their actions.

 

 

Do what, report the darling cherubs to the police; The parents will be round there to give them a sharp smack in the face with 2 seconds.

Don't know just how much you know about chav Britain(only a small part of the whole) Martini, but it makes you shudder.Saw two dads knocking the stuffing out of each other on a beach down by Bordeaux last summer.One had had the affront to lecture the darling cherub of the other for taking the plug of of his son's water wings when he couldn't swim.

[Ponty]

Erm, Brighton in the 60's?

 

This sort of "collapse of society" has been going on for decades. It's probably no worse now, it's just documented and reported 'better'.

[PhilB]

The cane wouldn't go amiss. Bloody good deterent in my school days.

[Saint Martini]

Do what, report the darling cherubs to the police; The parents will be round there to give them a sharp smack in the face with 2 seconds.

Don't know just how much you know about chav Britain(only a small part of the whole) Martini, but it makes you shudder.Saw two dads knocking the stuffing out of each other on a beach down by Bordeaux last summer.One had had the affront to lecture the darling cherub of the other for taking the plug of of his son's water wings when he couldn't swim.

 

I don't know a whole lot about Chav Brittain but I do know Northern Ireland (5 eyars ago). But anyway, I don't really know what kind of punishments they would get but in Holland they'd get a few weekends of cleaning duty somewhere (they've started a project now that they have to do it in their own neighbourhoods so all the other kids can see what "happens" if you do stuff like that). Anyway, not saying Hollands great, we have our own problems with youth but a group of 150 vandalising a school. That I haven't heard of yet.

[revolution saint]

No, badly behaved youngsters are caused by said society?

Is that not possible. That's the way it comes over to non-UK residents

We have the extreme pleasure of seeing a representative cross section of

British society drunk and disorderly in town squares,throwing terrace furniture about, puking up in cabs, ****ging on beaches etc etc. Perhaps we just get the low life chavs though.

 

It's possible. I think it's probably been blown out of proportion a bit but in essence it seems to stem from the fact that the merger of the two schools is perceived to be ill thought out and not working. Protesting about a fall in education standards is a pretty good thing isn't it? Naturally not having a riot but bringing the issue to the fore anyway. I'm guessing you live in France? A nation never known to riot, strike, burn British sheep or anything like that?

 

I don't think Britain, and Southampton in particular, is really any different to many other countries. I do think we've got a higher percentage of ex-pats who are probably more prone to moaning about the old country though.

[Ponty]

Doesn't the 'fact' of it being 150 or 40 pupils depend where you take your news?

[Flyer]

But then,although I have not much recent first hand knowledge of life in the UK, isn't Britain a degenerate hedonistic society?

Money is all that counts. That's why all your banks are in serious brown.

 

People can't even accept being refused a loan, they just hawk their mortgage(s) around till they find someone who'll lend them more for bigger cars and flasher holidays.

 

I believe you are confusing the UK with the US.

[Saint Martini]

Doesn't the 'fact' of it being 150 or 40 pupils depend where you take your news?

 

I don't know, I'm not really up to date with news about the city of Southampton.

[Flyer]

The physical punishment of children in schools has been banished from school in the rest of Europe much longer and they didn't have problems like this about 10-20 years ago.

 

Not only that, I know a teacher who was punched, then restrained the pupil by holding his wrists and telling him to calm down, but didnt hit him back and there was an inquiry into the teachers behaviour.

 

Not only are they not being punished physically, they know the teachers arent capable of stopping students doing anything or the teacher will lose their job.

[equalizer]

I find it hard to believe it was 150. 40 sounds more realistic with the rest egging them on I expect. I went to that school when it was Woolston Comp. It was pretty bad then(the mid to late 80's) not pupil disorder, but the lack of decent teachers. The head master was Greek and forever off sick, the deputy head ran the school for most of the time I was there. When I chose to do Business Studies we were supposed to go to college to study it but they couldn't spare the tutors, so we had a different supply teacher every week it was a shambles. I certainly won't be sending my kids there if its still open by then.

[Ponty]

Not only that, I know a teacher who was punched, then restrained the pupil by holding his wrists and telling him to calm down, but didnt hit him back and there was an inquiry into the teachers behaviour.

 

Not only are they not being punished physically, they know the teachers arent capable of stopping students doing anything or the teacher will lose their job.

 

Well, you'd expect an inquiry tbh but if what you say is the truth I assume no action was taken against said teacher?

[RedArmy]

It was always such a classy school, what happened.

 

Oh...

[mack rill]

I don't know, I'm not really up to date with news about the city of Southampton.

 

Southampton....second rate deprived city Fast becoming a business Ghost Town,,,Most firms ether jacking there hand in or moving South east along the coast to much greener pastors,

Southampton.....voted one of the most violent places to live Full of straw sucking yokels and more recently a large community of eastern block desirables,

Southampton,,,,,,Chav central soon to be renamed Sin City, on account of having the largest under age unand unmarried muvers in the uk.

 

Portsmouth is an island for one reason. Not to keep us in But keep you lot out! HTH;)

[Deppo]

Portsmouth...as above but also home of illiteracy.

[tombletomble]

I think a lot of the problem stems from an increasing failure of too many parent to install discipline in their children, expecting teachers to do it for them.

 

Teachers are left in a situation where children, allowed to do as they please at home come into school expecting to be able to do the same, act up knowing that there is very little that can be done to bring them under control. It doesn't really matter what the teachers say if the parents action do not back them up.

[AwaySaint1]

no action was taken against said teacher?

 

Against "said" teacher?

 

WTF I thought this was a football forum,are you sure hockey is not more your bag old bean.

 

Have you swollowed a dictionary or have you been watching to much crown court?

[Ponty]

Against "said" teacher?

 

WTF I thought this was a football forum,are you sure hockey is not more your bag old bean.

 

Have you swollowed a dictionary or have you been watching to much crown court?

 

I didn't realise talking English was something to be frowned upon. Sorry, I'll regress back to a more suitable level.

 

Ughhh eurghh ug ug.

 

Oh, it's "swallowed" and "too much" by the way. Perhaps you should try a main course of dictionary... Old bean.

[Bentley]

Classic exaggeration by The Echo! I know someone who works there as a teacher and all that happened was that a group of kids wanted some demands of a refurbished swimming pool, snooker table and cheaper food in the cafeteria.

 

Since these are a bit expense demands, they were turned down. So those kids decided to go on strike at a specific time. About 30 "troublemaker" kids got ear of this, and took it in their own hands to rebel.

 

They marched around the hallways just making noise by banging bits of wood together. They then broke a single window and got stopped by teachers. The fact that the school didn't even call the police, and that they were showing a couple around who at the end of it said they will send their kid there because of the way that the teachers handled the situation says it all really. Just plain over exaggeration.

[AwaySaint1]

 

Oh, it's "swallowed" and "too much" by the way. Perhaps you should try a main course of dictionary... Old bean.

 

Sorry Pompey I am DYSLEXIC,I was going to purchase a new spell checker but I am £5 short.

[Window Cleaner]

I find it hard to believe it was 150. 40 sounds more realistic with the rest egging them on I expect. I went to that school when it was Woolston Comp. It was pretty bad then(the mid to late 80's) not pupil disorder, but the lack of decent teachers. The head master was Greek and forever off sick, the deputy head ran the school for most of the time I was there. When I chose to do Business Studies we were supposed to go to college to study it but they couldn't spare the tutors, so we had a different supply teacher every week it was a shambles. I certainly won't be sending my kids there if its still open by then.

 

That's what happens when you don't strictly limit the teaching profession to UK nationals only. Plenty of EEC countries have the same rule. Finance Ministry,Education Ministry,Defence Ministry - nationals only.

[Window Cleaner]

Classic exaggeration by The Echo! I know someone who works there as a teacher and all that happened was that a group of kids wanted some demands of a refurbished swimming pool, snooker table and cheaper food in the cafeteria.

 

Since these are a bit expense demands, they were turned down. So those kids decided to go on strike at a specific time. About 30 "troublemaker" kids got ear of this, and took it in their own hands to rebel.

 

They marched around the hallways just making noise by banging bits of wood together. They then broke a single window and got stopped by teachers. The fact that the school didn't even call the police, and that they were showing a couple around who at the end of it said they will send their kid there because of the way that the teachers handled the situation says it all really. Just plain over exaggeration.

 

 

Kids smash up a school because they can't have a snooker table?? You jest me right?

[Ponty]

Sorry Pompey I am DYSLEXIC,I was going to purchase a new spell checker but I am £5 short.

So it's ok for you to spell badly or use poor sentence structure because you're dyslexic but I'm a hockey loving ponce because I'm not?

 

Ok, keep up the good work.

[doublesaint]

That's what happens when you don't strictly limit the teaching profession to UK nationals only. Plenty of EEC countries have the same rule. Finance Ministry,Education Ministry,Defence Ministry - nationals only.

 

I would think it better for perhaps a French teacher to be French with English as their second language, not only could they teach the language but be able to provide an insight into the country from the point of having been born there.

[Guest Hacienda]

That's what happens when you don't strictly limit the teaching profession to UK nationals only. Plenty of EEC countries have the same rule. Finance Ministry,Education Ministry,Defence Ministry - nationals only.

 

What a pile of ******s.

[Guest Hacienda]

I would think it better for perhaps a French teacher to be French with English as their second language, not only could they teach the language but be able to provide an insight into the country from the point of having been born there.

 

My French teacher was French and there are very many English teachers in Europe who are English!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It's possible. I think it's probably been blown out of proportion a bit but in essence it seems to stem from the fact that the merger of the two schools is perceived to be ill thought out and not working. Protesting about a fall in education standards is a pretty good thing isn't it? Naturally not having a riot but bringing the issue to the fore anyway. I'm guessing you live in France? A nation never known to riot, strike, burn British sheep or anything like that?

 

I don't think Britain, and Southampton in particular, is really any different to many other countries. I do think we've got a higher percentage of ex-pats who are probably more prone to moaning about the old country though.

 

Well said sir!

 

Let he who is without sin . . .

[Window Cleaner]

I would think it better for perhaps a French teacher to be French with English as their second language, not only could they teach the language but be able to provide an insight into the country from the point of having been born there.

 

Yes but there a plenty of French people who now have the UK nationality.

Doesn't mean british origin, means british nationality. Any French lady (or man in the vice-versa case) married to a brit can acquire the nationality

It's not exclusive but it helps.You also have specialist teachers of foreign extraction but they aren't "titulaires" ie Civil Servants.

[Window Cleaner]

My French teacher was French and there are very many English teachers in Europe who are English!

 

Yes they teach English, they are 'agregé, which means they have ministry authorisation to teach one subject and one subject only without ever acquiring the title of Professeur de l'Education Nationale (or equivalent) They can't be head-teachers, teach any other subject or become "fonctionnaires" which means civil servants.

[Master Bates]

Classic exaggeration by The Echo! I know someone who works there as a teacher and all that happened was that a group of kids wanted some demands of a refurbished swimming pool, snooker table and cheaper food in the cafeteria.

 

Since these are a bit expense demands, they were turned down. So those kids decided to go on strike at a specific time. About 30 "troublemaker" kids got ear of this, and took it in their own hands to rebel.

 

They marched around the hallways just making noise by banging bits of wood together. They then broke a single window and got stopped by teachers. The fact that the school didn't even call the police, and that they were showing a couple around who at the end of it said they will send their kid there because of the way that the teachers handled the situation says it all really. Just plain over exaggeration.

 

So not much happened eh?

 

pupils at the Oasis Academy Mayfield caused hundreds of pounds worth of damage, smashing windows and wrecking televisions...............

 

..............witnesses told how windows were broken, televisions wrecked and ceiling tiles torn down when pupils on the upper school site in Woolston left on a trail of destruction.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3777024.Parents_must_stop_any_repeat_of_school_rampage/

[Thedelldays]

a snapshot of new labours new britain

[Guest Hacienda]

Yes they teach English, they are 'agregé, which means they have ministry authorisation to teach one subject and one subject only without ever acquiring the title of Professeur de l'Education Nationale (or equivalent) They can't be head-teachers, teach any other subject or become "fonctionnaires" which means civil servants.

 

So France is the whole of Europe is it?

 

Being in the trade, so to speak, I know of teachers/lecturers/tutors living and working in the state system in various countries teaching a variety of subjects.

 

No one seems to mind that they're not of that nation. In fact, they're seen as bringing something new to the place.

[Guest Hacienda]

a snapshot of new labours new britain

 

So we didn't have full scale riots under the Tories?

 

Not to mention mass unemployment, decimation of industry, mass repossessions, interest rates on 15% and Wham.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Just a point to Mackrill... If Southampton, SFC of anything to the west of your god forsaken sh*thole of a city is no good in your eyes, then why oh fishy friend do you grace your 'higher being' presence in a SOUTHAMPTON FC forum?

 

Is it...

 

a) You're one of a few who can (barely) read and write?

b) You actually support Saints, you're just not ready to admit it yet

c) You're so stupid, you didn't realise this was a SFC forum, and still believe it to be a skate one.

d) All of the above?

 

Anyway.

 

I'm 25 and I was disciplined as a child. Not too strictly, however, I knew where the line was. If I ever overstepped this, my mum or dad would be there with a wooden spoon to punish me. They wouldnt clobber me until I were black and blue, could bearly breath and needed 4 weeks intensive care in hospital, just a good ol' smack across my ars£. I learnt this way to respect my elders. The gov't have come along with their namby pamby 'no smacking' rule and consequently, kids just get shouted at (at best). No wonder respect is waining and consequently, kids are pushing the boundaries further and further.

 

IMO the gov't should be encouraging disciplining kids (parents only), within reason obviously, but a lot more respect would come back and I think soceity would benefit more from it.

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

So we didn't have full scale riots under the Tories?

 

Not to mention mass unemployment, decimation of industry, mass repossessions, interest rates on 15% and Wham.

 

To be fair H, we are facing mass unemployment, decimation of industry and mass reposessions. The only one of these which we (touch wood) wont see if interest rates of 15%. However, to get people spending money, BOE base rate will be cut further and further next year, which will mean inflation will shoot right up.

 

The way to control inflation, is generally deemed to be to increase rates, so fingers crossed they wont have to increase them that much.

 

The state of the economy is cyclical, TBF, it doesnt really matter who is in power.

[Window Cleaner]

To be fair H, we are facing mass unemployment, decimation of industry and mass reposessions. The only one of these which we (touch wood) wont see if interest rates of 15%. However, to get people spending money, BOE base rate will be cut further and further next year, which will mean inflation will shoot right up.

 

The way to control inflation, is generally deemed to be to increase rates, so fingers crossed they wont have to increase them that much.

 

The state of the economy is cyclical, TBF, it doesnt really matter who is in power.

 

 

Why are there so many repossessions?, never did really understand that.

When you get a mortgage you calculate what you can reasonably pay and stick roughly to that with a bit of error margin. I mean when you're off sick you get sick pay, when you're out of work I suppose you get job seekers allowance, is that not in some way linked to your former pay?

How do the banks calculate how much to lend you? In France it's easy

you can't have repayments (total repayments) on credit which exceed 30%

(some push it to 35%) of your net income. You have to give them 3 month's payslips (or 2 years audited accounts if you're SE). There's none of this I'll get my boss to boost my pay in the letter stuff. Obviously there are credit companies who drive a hard bargain and don't check up too much on your other outgoings but all in all it's a pretty watertight system.

[AwaySaint1]

So it's ok for you to spell badly or use poor sentence structure because you're dyslexic but I'm a hockey loving ponce because I'm not?

 

Ok, keep up the good work.

I was not the prat trying to talk lawyer speak.

 

p.s are you the guy they say goes to more Brighton games than Saints?

Edited 21 October, 2008 by AwaySaint1

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

Why are there so many repossessions?, never did really understand that.

Because (as ill explain below) there are a lot of people who dont pay their mortgage and consequently, the only thing left for the bank/building soceity to do is reposess to get their money back.

 

When you get a mortgage you calculate what you can reasonably pay and stick roughly to that with a bit of error margin. I mean when you're off sick you get sick pay, when you're out of work I suppose you get job seekers allowance, is that not in some way linked to your former pay?

 

You and I would calculate what we can reasonably afford yes, but there are a number of scratchy people out there who dont think like this. They are what I call 'priority retarded' They have missed payments on their loans & credit cards, have county court judgements (CCJ's) and defaults coming out of their ears but wanna borrow an extra £5k to go on holiday! What eventually happens is they have so much credit which they cannot afford, they start to miss mortgage payments to keep the credit card company and loan company happy by making a payment to them. When they miss mortgage payments, the risk of being repo'd is only just around the corner. Some lenders tolerate loads of missed payments before taking the client to court (I saw a Halifax one, where no payment had been made for 18 months yet no court action had been started! Yet others like Northern Rock will push for court action after only 2 or 3!

 

Quite often, people dont get as much sick pay as they originally thought they would, or they take a 'it'll never happen to me' attitude, and dont take out any cover, again in these circumstances, it leads to missed mortgage payments and eventually repo. Same with Redundancy. JSA is no where near as much as a wage would be, so unless you had a very small mortgage, you wouldnt be able to pay it on the JSA.

 

 

How do the banks calculate how much to lend you? In France it's easy you can't have repayments (total repayments) on credit which exceed 30% (some push it to 35%) of your net income. You have to give them 3 month's payslips (or 2 years audited accounts if you're SE). There's none of this I'll get my boss to boost my pay in the letter stuff. Obviously there are credit companies who drive a hard bargain and don't check up too much on your other outgoings but all in all it's a pretty watertight system.

 

Its very different in the UK. Up until recently, it was worked on income multiples. So if I were to earn £25k (most banks work on an IM of 4 x wages) I could borrow £100k. The main floor in this is that they didnt normally take into account any other outgoings you had, so I could go to bank 1 and get £100k mortgage, bank 2 and get a £100k mortgage and so on. In affect, I could have £100k's of mortgage on £25k income. This was rectified and nowadays, most lenders use whats called affordability. Sounds a little like the France system. They basically take into account how much you spend on things like credit cards, loans etc and work out how much money you have spare each month (they use a rough guide for general living costs too). If the spare capacity is sufficient, you qualify for the mortgage.

 

The main floor in all of these is unsecured credit.

 

I could be on a wage of £25k and have no unsecured debts so the maximum I could borrow under this new affordability scheme would be say £100k. However, once the mortgage has gone through, I could then go to bank x, y & z and borrow tens of thousands of pounds in unsecured credit. Banks dont tend to work on stringent criteria for unsecured debts, more often than not, its just based on how much money goes into your account which can be easily mislead. The 'computer says no' sketch on little brittain is not far wrong with how personal loans are calculated in banks, normally the person selling you the loan is just reading a figure of how much the computer has calculated can be lent to you!

 

So having borrowed my £x thousands from the bank, I then start to struggle meeting the mortgage payments, as had I taken out the debt before I were granted the mortgage, I would not have been given a mortgage as large as £100k!

 

This IMO is also a major part of why there will be a lot of repo's this year.

[norwaysaint]

I was not the prat trying to talk lawyer speak.

 

p.s are you the guy they say goes to more Brighton games than Saints?

 

You really are a ****ing plank!

 

He is speaking English, his native tongue. Don't get angry just because he can speak it properly and you struggle.

 

It's not "lawyer speak" it's just the correct expression. That's why you were the only one reacting, to everyone else it was just straightforward.

 

p.s. Were you the one who said fathers shouldn't take an interest in their own kids' education. Dyslexia is one thing, stupidity is quite another.

[Window Cleaner]

You really are a ****ing plank!

 

He is speaking English, his native tongue. Don't get angry just because he can speak it properly and you struggle.

 

It's not "lawyer speak" it's just the correct expression. That's why you were the only one reacting, to everyone else it was just straightforward.

 

p.s. Were you the one who said fathers shouldn't take an interest in their own kids' education. Dyslexia is one thing, stupidity is quite another.

 

[AwaySaint1]

 

p.s. Were you the one who said fathers shouldn't take an interest in their own kids' education. Dyslexia is one thing, stupidity is quite another.

 

No I was the one who said that seperated fathers should keep there nose out of the kids education and allow the ex partners new partner to take care of the new family unit.