saintwarwick Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 The slide started over the festive period. No doubt about that, Watford in particular was a joke. And he followed that game with 4 points from 6 (and a cup win against Leicester) before taking the Scotland job, good slide that.
Baird of the land Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Chapel end saint wrote " By last Christmas at the latest any Saints fan with eyes in there head could see it was time for Burley to go , you were there you must have see how poorly we played for much of the 07/08 season . The manager must carry his share of the blame for the teams poor performances last season . It's my opinion that had GB not gotten the Scotland job we would have been relegated last season ." I would agree that i didn't see burley lasting past the end of the season and that i was disappointed that we weren't playing better. It seemed very mediocre scraping 1-0's and draws while occassionally being hammered. However to suggest we would have got relegated if he stayed is pure nonsense. Here's the records from dec till be left (A) Leic won, (H) Sheff W drew, (H) Hull Won, (A) Cov Drew, (A) Preston Lost, (A) Colch drew, (A) Barnsley drew, (H) watford lost, (H) Leic won, (H) scun won, (A) Ply draw. 37 points and ten points clear of relegation. No way is that form relegation form. Whereas dodd and gorman lost 5, drew 1 and won against mighty bury which is relegation form.
St Marco Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Funny how whenever someone wants to knock the job Pearsons done they only mention how many we won and not how many we lost. Or the fact things were different when he came here. He was brought in to save us from the slide Burley started. He did that. Burley was brought here to get promotion with more money they any other manager in the history of this club, he failed. So i do find it funny reading people's comments trying to run damage control etc.. Burley failed, we did not give him next to 12m over 24months to be 14th in the CCC. Plus people are forgetting if you used Pearson's points per game ratio for the whole season we would of been a grand total of......4 points from Burleys and a whopping.....6 places above where we are. These are stories people seem to forget, there was only 4 points between over 6 teams. So if people look at as Pearson was a failure then you have to look at it and say Burley was even more of a failure.
NickG Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 to be fair I don't think anyone is saying NP was a failure, I certainly think he did pretty good. But to say he was excellent or a legend is just wrong.
tiger Posted 8 August, 2008 Author Posted 8 August, 2008 I was actually a supporter of George Burley , not one of his many critics . It's intellectually dishonest to stubbornly defend a point of view when it becomes superseded by events , we all have to move on sometimes and admit that we were wrong . In retrospect I (and others) defended Burley for far too long - that's the truth of the matter . By last Christmas at the latest any Saints fan with eyes in there head could see it was time for Burley to go , you were there you must have see how poorly we played for much of the 07/08 season . The manager must carry his share of the blame for the teams poor performances last season . It's my opinion that had GB not gotten the Scotland job we would have been relegated last season . What an honest appraisal - a fan admitting he got it wrong - well done Chapel End Charlie. We all get things wrong, especially with Saints because it is easy to let our hearts rule our heads but it takes a big man to admit it. Fair play to you - I shall read your posts this season with interest because I know you are a poster who's views are without spin. More power to your elbow.
Dr Who? Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 What a time to drag this all up again...... do you work on the board?
Andy_Porter Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 And he followed that game with 4 points from 6 (and a cup win against Leicester) before taking the Scotland job, good slide that. Before the Watford game we got 3 points from a possible 12, so 7 points from a possible 21. Relegation form.
saintwarwick Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Or the fact things were different when he came here. He was brought in to save us from the slide Burley started. He did that. Burley was brought here to get promotion with more money they any other manager in the history of this club, he failed. So i do find it funny reading people's comments trying to run damage control etc.. Burley failed, we did not give him next to 12m over 24months to be 14th in the CCC. Plus people are forgetting if you used Pearson's points per game ratio for the whole season we would of been a grand total of......4 points from Burleys and a whopping.....6 places above where we are. These are stories people seem to forget, there was only 4 points between over 6 teams. So if people look at as Pearson was a failure then you have to look at it and say Burley was even more of a failure. Correct and we should of done better in the first season than a play off place when we spent most of that money, but it didn't help last season when he had to sell £20m worth of talent to weaken the squad. That said we did underperform.
bungle Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Before the Watford game we got 3 points from a possible 12, so 7 points from a possible 21. Relegation form. But the two away games over Xmas (at Colchester and Barnsley) we played well and should have one both. But for one of the dodgiest offsides given ever, we'd have beaten Col U, and we had numerous chances to win at Barnsley. Hardly a massive dip in form when you are going away and playing so well. There is no doubt that Dodd and Gorman created the mess.
saintwarwick Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Before the Watford game we got 3 points from a possible 12, so 7 points from a possible 21. Relegation form. And before that we got 7 points from a possible 12. That makes it 14 points from 33, 3 wins, 5 draws and 3 losses. Not relegation form. As I said the slide started when Burley left.
Andy_Porter Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 And before that we got 7 points from a possible 12. That makes it 14 points from 33, 3 wins, 5 draws and 3 losses. Not relegation form. As I said the slide started when Burley left. I said over the festive period in my original post which you disagreed with, that's why I didn't include the Hull and Leicester games. Anyway it's my opinion that the slide started during Burleys time in charge and a lot of people agree with that. It got a whole lot worse under Dodd and Gorman before Pearson managed to steady the ship.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 I said over the festive period in my original post which you disagreed with, that's why I didn't include the Hull and Leicester games. Anyway it's my opinion that the slide started during Burleys time in charge and a lot of people agree with that. It got a whole lot worse under Dodd and Gorman before Pearson managed to steady the ship. Spot on .
alpine_saint Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 I said over the festive period in my original post which you disagreed with, that's why I didn't include the Hull and Leicester games. Anyway it's my opinion that the slide started during Burleys time in charge and a lot of people agree with that. It got a whole lot worse under Dodd and Gorman before Pearson managed to steady the ship. I agree too
saintwarwick Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 I said over the festive period in my original post which you disagreed with, that's why I didn't include the Hull and Leicester games. Anyway it's my opinion that the slide started during Burleys time in charge and a lot of people agree with that. It got a whole lot worse under Dodd and Gorman before Pearson managed to steady the ship. So we had a blip over the festive period (please define the festive period as to me that's games over the xmas and new year period, 22nd Dec to 01st Jan, 4 games when we drew 2 and lost 2). The slide stopped after this blip something you have failed to notice hence my post to show two wins and a draw after the festive period and before he left. Once again the slide started when D&G took over, under Burley it was a mid table finish.
Totton Red Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 So we had a blip over the festive period (please define the festive period as to me that's games over the xmas and new year period, 22nd Dec to 01st Jan, 4 games when we drew 2 and lost 2). The slide stopped after this blip something you have failed to notice hence my post to show two wins and a draw after the festive period and before he left. Once again the slide started when D&G took over, under Burley it was a mid table finish. Groundhog day and not really worth debating on the eve of a new season of hope..but to finalize the debate: come on Scooby....lets have at least a decent statistical debate for once rather than ignoring those who challenge you: Pearson: 1.333 points per game from his last half Pearson: 1.167 from his first half D & G: 0.2 overall Burley: 1.23 from the his last equivalent number of games to NP Burley: 1.46 from those previous games = to NP total games
Colinjb Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 come on Scooby....lets have at least a decent statistical debate for once rather than ignoring those who challenge you: Pearson: 1.333 points per game from his last half Pearson: 1.167 from his first half D & G: 0.2 overall Burley: 1.23 from the his last equivalent number of games to NP Burley: 1.46 from those previous games = to NP total games No point challenging. He will never respond and simply maintain a superior air. Who needs logic when you have the right of first refusal to respond.
alpine_saint Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Groundhog day and not really worth debating on the eve of a new season of hope..but to finalize the debate: come on Scooby....lets have at least a decent statistical debate for once rather than ignoring those who challenge you: Pearson: 1.333 points per game from his last half Pearson: 1.167 from his first half D & G: 0.2 overall Burley: 1.23 from the his last equivalent number of games to NP Burley: 1.46 from those previous games = to NP total games Conclusive proof that Burely lost it, and that NP was getting better. I also seem to recall that NP faced tougher opposition than Burley.
Totton Red Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 No point challenging. He will never respond and simply maintain a superior air. Who needs logic when you have the right of first refusal to respond. The Scooby bit was a little historic and wasn't aimed at him...just copied a previous post on the issue. Ironically he didn't respond on that one
Glasgow_Saint Posted 8 August, 2008 Posted 8 August, 2008 Conclusive proof that Burely lost it, and that NP was getting better. I also seem to recall that NP faced tougher opposition than Burley. hahahahahahahahahaha @ You!! You're funny Alps
saintwarwick Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 Conclusive proof that Burely lost it, and that NP was getting better. I also seem to recall that NP faced tougher opposition than Burley. Yep, we dropped that far down the league every team was a tougher opposition.
OldNick Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 I find it amusing when fans talk about the money spent, none ever factor in the job he was given in respect of getting rid of over 20 players who were deadwood or high earners. If you lose 20 players you would obviously have to replace some on lower wages and so duck and dive and wheel and deal to replace and try and keep it to a good standard. The following season he lost 3 of the best players and also had a jinxed set of centre backs. He siad he expected a mid table finish and was heading that way, until the internatioal job came up. NP did ok but lets see how he does this season with a big budget and strong squad.
alpine_saint Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 Yep, we dropped that far down the league every team was a tougher opposition. You and Bournemouth Saint can scoff, but Pearson lost by 5 to Hull, Burley lost by 5 to Sheff Wed and Preston. Queue Bournemouth Saint pointing out we beat Hull 4-0 under Burley. However, that was much earlier in the season, living testimony to the fact that teams CAN improve when led by a manager that isnt a disinterested drunken f**wit.
OldNick Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 (edited) You and Bournemouth Saint can scoff, but Pearson lost by 5 to Hull, Burley lost by 5 to Sheff Wed and Preston. Queue Bournemouth Saint pointing out we beat Hull 4-0 under Burley. However, that was much earlier in the season, living testimony to the fact that teams CAN improve when led by a manager that isnt a disinterested drunken f**wit.funny how you return to abuse when you see that you have put up a comment that can be rightly scoffed at. Now forward us the proof that GB was a drunken f###wit. You can't as only reveryt to that because you are on soft ground. As for those 3 results there is no excuse for any of them and the players should be ashamed to have been part of those defeats. Both managers need criticism but it would show that however much you shout and scream from the sidelines it means Sweet FA when the players have crossed the line if they dont care. Edited 9 August, 2008 by OldNick
alpine_saint Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 funny how you return to abuse when you see that you have put up a comment that can be rightly scoffed at. Now forward us the proof that GB was a drunken f###wit. You can't as only reveryt to that because you are on soft ground. As for those 3 results there is no excuse for any of them and the players should be ashamed to have been part of those defeats. Both managers need criticism but it would show that however much you shout and scream from the sidelines it means Sweet FA when the players have crossed the line if they dont care. Now I am going to scoff at your attempts to absolve Burley of blame and indulge in his "everybody's fault but mine, we lost our best 3 players" gambit... *scoff*
Dalek2003 Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 Bring back Hoddle. Anyone interested in opening up a debate on this topic ?
NickG Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 GB -resigned from us to become international manager. NP -sacked by us and went to first division. No comment just thought would through it in!
alpine_saint Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 GB -resigned from us to become international manager. NP -sacked by us and went to first division. No comment just thought would through it in! Utterly irrelevant.
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 Still going with this one eh? Burley was all wrong for this club, and it was clear that his heart wasn't in it. He had to go, he was stale.
NickG Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 JP, at this very early stage, seems best of both. good football of GB the drive and discipline of NP
NickG Posted 9 August, 2008 Posted 9 August, 2008 Utterly irrelevant. shows the wider football worlds view of the two's tenure with us.
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