Where are the pro Burleyites? Bournemouth Saint?

[Ash]

Free speach rules...who are you to tell people what they can say.

Is that like the first ammendment or the fruit?

And calling someone a dribbling cretin is not "tedious"

My point was your debate didn't seem grounded in discussion but in "oneupmanship" thereby I decreed that you were a dribbling cretin; an assessment I stick by.

There really should be a 'no infighting' rule on this forum

********.

[Wilf]

I was a Burley supporter; delighted when he joined us and backed him all the time while he was here. Now that he's gone I look back and think that although he succeeded in getting us to the playoffs (which was great) overall he perhaps underperformed and didn't make the most of the money he spent.

 

I backed Dodd / Gorman when they took temporary charge because we had a true Saint with some passion for the club in charge, and the early signs were that team morale improved. Once they had gone I saw it as another example of the coach-stepping-up-to-manager experiment which just doesn't seem to work. It still pains me to think of the abuse directed at them though, quite undeserved.

 

I thought Nigel Pearson was great while in charge for keeping a rock steady hand on the wheel and steering us to safety. Now he's gone I wonder what might have been if he'd been allowed to have a crack at this season after salvaging last season with mainly somone else's team (his loan signings while he was here showed he is is sound judge of players).

 

Now we've got the Dutch team in charge I am fully behind them and what Lowe is trying to achieve on the football side for the club. I'm really looking forward to the coming season.

 

What's my point?

 

I choose to feel positive and supportive about the current manager / coach whoever they are. The only exceptions in 40 years supporting the club have been Branfoot and Redknap (and even him I gave the benefit of the doubt for a while). I do this because....

 

a) I enjoy feeling positive about things generally, and it makes supporting Saints as enjoyable as possible

b) In a tiny way it contributes to the positive feel about the club and this ultimately helps the team

 

So when doing a post-mortem after a manager (or player) has gone, and you want to call to account those who stuck by the manager at the time, bear in mind that there may be others like me who always support the guy in the hot seat at the time, and may continue to see the positives even when they are gone.

Edited 8 August, 2008 by Wilf

[OldNick]

Appreciate your bravery in at least sticking up for Burley now however I have to take issue with some of your views.

Burley is an international manager true but he is far from proven in this arena.

Also he did not turn Bale and Jones into multi pound sales from reserves. The chances are it would have happened anyway especially in the case of Bale who looked every inch a Prem player right from the outset. In the case of Jones most of the credit should go to Sturrock who signed him from Trinidad.

 

My biggest gripe with Burley was that he had given up the ghost during 07-08and was just turning up (often late and smelling of booze) to pick up his pay check. No wonder we soon went on the slide. It was obvious as well and yet many on here preferred to turn a blind eye.

Tiger, I dont think its brave, its a case of putting a fair case on someone who deserves a little evenhandedness.

I object to your comments regarding drinking. Nobody has at this time shown evidence or pictures of such things. In this day of mobile phones pictures would be easy to get of a druken person.

GB does drink, so do most people here. Brian Clough , Ferguson do the same it never stopped them from doing their job.IMO It was used as an easy way for the less intelligent to try and win an argument.

As the club read this site it would be evident to them the accusations and they would have acted had he turned up drunk.Football is full of gossip and Scotland would have known about these alleged things and I beleive would not have considered him if this was the case.It was Chinese whispers of the worst scale.

 

Bale Baird Jones were either overlooked, or bit part players until GB took them and played them regularly. Jones above all was a massive loss last season.

 

GB left the club he is the past lets get on with the future.

[Micky]

I was a Burley supporter; delighted when he joined us and backed him all the time while he was here. Now that he's gone I look back and think that although he succeeded in getting us to the playoffs (which was great) overall he perhaps underperformed and didn't make the most of the money he spent.

 

I backed Dodd / Gorman when they took temporary charge because we had a true Saint with some passion for the club in charge, and the early signs were that team morale improved. Once they had gone I saw it as another example of the coach-stepping-up-to-manager experiment which just doesn't seem to work. It still pains me to think of the abuse directed at them though, quite undeserved.

 

I thought Nigel Pearson was great while in charge for keeping a rock steady hand on the wheel and steering us to safety. Now he's gone I wonder what might have been if he'd been allowed to have a crack at this season after salvaging last season with mainly somone else's team (his loan signings while he was here showed he is is sound judge of players).

 

Now we've got the Dutch team in charge I am fully behind them and what Lowe is trying to achieve on the football side for the club. I'm really looking forward to the coming season.

 

What's my point?

 

I choose to feel positive and supportive about the current manager / coach whoever they are. The only exceptions in 40 years supporting the club have been Branfoot and Redknap (and even him I gave the benefit of the doubt for a while). I do this because....

 

a) I enjoy feeling positive about things generally, and it makes supporting Saints as enjoyable as possible

b) In a tiny way it contributes to the positive feel about the club and this ultimately helps the team

 

So when doing a post-mortem after a manager (or player) has gone, and you want to call to account those who stuck by the manager at the time, bear in mind that there may be others like me who always support the guy in the hot seat at the time, and may continue to see the positives even when they are gone.

 

Many thanks Wilf - saved me a lot of time there, my sentiments entirely, couldn't agree more.

[Guest Hacienda]

When he joined us I was chuffed. Thought he was deffo the man for the job.

 

By November/December last year it was clear he was a busted flush.

 

Now, I think GM is a pr1ck of the highest order but he was spot on last year, after the Lazio game, when he said that we were likely relegation candidates as we had no defence. He was ripped into by many but he was spot on.

 

This pre-season our players look fit, eager and organised. All the things missing this time last year.

 

My only concern is where the goals are going to come from.

[tiger]

Tiger, I dont think its brave, its a case of putting a fair case on someone who deserves a little evenhandedness.

I object to your comments regarding drinking. Nobody has at this time shown evidence or pictures of such things. In this day of mobile phones pictures would be easy to get of a druken person.

GB does drink, so do most people here. Brian Clough , Ferguson do the same it never stopped them from doing their job.IMO It was used as an easy way for the less intelligent to try and win an argument.

As the club read this site it would be evident to them the accusations and they would have acted had he turned up drunk.Football is full of gossip and Scotland would have known about these alleged things and I beleive would not have considered him if this was the case.It was Chinese whispers of the worst scale.

 

Bale Baird Jones were either overlooked, or bit part players until GB took them and played them regularly. Jones above all was a massive loss last season.

 

GB left the club he is the past lets get on with the future.

 

 

NickH - the only reference to Burley's drinking I made was to the fact that apparently he often smelt of booze when he turned up to work. This I was told first hand by someone who often had to "work" in close proximity to him. Not a crime and like you say Ferguson and Clough are meant to have been heavy drinkers but they have at least won 4 European Cups and to my knowledge never had a problem with players showing a lack of respect.

 

He has gone now and life moves on but I still regard it interesting how history gets re-written when we look back at our past. I remember calling for Ted Bates's resignation along with the rest of Milton Rd but you won't find a bad word said about him anywhere now and you only have to see the divided opinion on the pros and cons of L Mac's time here to realise how polarised the debate can be. My point is how some on here are very inconsistent with their views. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but so is hubris.

 

Still at least you didn't call me a dribbling cretin.

[Scudamore]

You people baffle me sometimes...

[mitch01]

I thought the criticism he got in his first 18 months was completely unfounded, not his fault that our finishing was so bad/individual errors, as often we dominated matches. However, there was a definite lack of enthusiasm from him last season, it was as if he knew the momentum was gone.

[bungle]

This thread is sad, and pointless. It appears some people must always have something to moan about, and must continue their pointless quest for oneupmanship. I see absolutely no point to this discussion, whatsoever.

[tiger]

This thread is sad, and pointless. It appears some people must always have something to moan about, and must continue their pointless quest for oneupmanship. I see absolutely no point to this discussion, whatsoever.

 

then why join it - go and hold hands with the happy clappies on the "reasons to be cheerful" thread.

 

If you are interested however the point is, how poster's or fans perceptions can "change" as time passes.

[wooley11]

But Nick any criticism of GB last season was met by a near crescendo of posters praising what he was doing and yet now those same posters are slagging down the way the team performed last season. Seems a bit hypocritic really.

 

Had he stayed I think we would have gone down because we really were on the slide and NP did well to reverse (just about) the speed of the decline.

 

I was someone who defended Burley mainly because most of the critisism was fairly unfounded and in many cases very childish witch hunts.

 

I never felt he was Gods gift to management but I did feel that the probems we had at the time were not down to him but the overall state of the club. I and many others felt it didn't matter who was manager at that time and that the likely hod was that we would end up with a less able man. Results show that those people, me included, were right about this as we were in mid table when he left and ended up very nearly relegated.

 

Seems odd to drag this up as the issue caused many disagreements, at long last the club the team and the fans seem to be pulling in the same direction.

 

So sorry, not going to bother with the I was wrong you were right, but well done any way, have two gold stars!

[James_O_Mac]

Where are the pro Burleyites?QUOTE]

 

Scotland. Because thats the team he manages now. Scotland.

[bungle]

then why join it - go and hold hands with the happy clappies on the "reasons to be cheerful" thread.

 

If you are interested however the point is, how poster's or fans perceptions can "change" as time passes.

 

That certainly isn't the reason for this thread. The reason is to boost your own ego and play your game of "I know best, everyone else is an idiot."

 

Also, it is possible to think that we were below par for all of last season, but also think that Burley is a decent manager. That thought appears to not have occurred to you.

[tiger]

I was someone who defended Burley mainly because most of the critisism was fairly unfounded and in many cases very childish witch hunts.

 

I never felt he was Gods gift to management but I did feel that the probems we had at the time were not down to him but the overall state of the club. I and many others felt it didn't matter who was manager at that time and that the likely hod was that we would end up with a less able man. Results show that those people, me included, were right about this as we were in mid table when he left and ended up very nearly relegated.

 

Seems odd to drag this up as the issue caused many disagreements, at long last the club the team and the fans seem to be pulling in the same direction.

 

So sorry, not going to bother with the I was wrong you were right, but well done any way, have two gold stars!

 

 

Not at all - thanks for giving a rational response.

[tiger]

That certainly isn't the reason for this thread. The reason is to boost your own ego and play your game of "I know best, everyone else is an idiot."

 

Also, it is possible to think that we were below par for all of last season, but also think that Burley is a decent manager. That thought appears to not have occurred to you.

 

OK now we having a sensible debate (if we ignore your opening sentence).

 

The answer to your question re us being below par - I think the reason we had a poor season was very much down to Burley. Losing the play-offs to Derby was the turning point for Burley because he realised (quite correctly) his best chance had gone and he lost interest which was unprofessional and very nearly cost us our place in the CCC. It was obvious to quite a few that we were on the rocky slope and I seem to remember even the then current board (Hone) had concerns but were strapped about doing anything because the amount of money it would have cost us to have got rid of what was fast becoming a lame duck manager. Also, Lowe's comments when he returned about Burley not being managed properly shows that even he recognised the Burley situation needed better "managing".

 

I am not looking to score points - more trying to make Saints fans face up to reality when things are starting to go wrong. Support is great and I sing as loud as any when it is needed or deserved but blind loyalty can be harmful. I honestly believe too many gave Burley too much "blind loyalty" last season and it nearly cost us. I was at the AGM last year and could not believe the ovation GB got. I bet one or two of those clapping have since been very critical.

[stevegrant]

The answer to your question re us being below par - I think the reason we had a poor season was very much down to Burley. Losing the play-offs to Derby was the turning point for Burley because he realised (quite correctly) his best chance had gone and he lost interest which was unprofessional and very nearly cost us our place in the CCC.

It always amazes me how much criticism a manager gets when players either don't perform or don't appear to be putting in the effort they perhaps should be, and yet the players themselves appear to get off with pretty much a free ride.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think he lost "interest", as such. He was, to my mind, fully focussed on the job. However, and he certainly didn't tire of mentioning it , our three best players from the playoff season were sold and not really replaced (certainly not like-for-like). When "working" conditions change like that, it's not entirely unexpected for some people to become a bit demoralised by the situation.

 

That's not to defend how poor we were for most of last season, and the fitness was a major problem and reason for our mid-season slump, but I think a large slice of the blame does have to be laid to rest on the shoulders of the players who put us into that position. After all, the manager doesn't cross that white line at 2.55pm, does he? It's quite telling that a large number of last season's first-team regulars aren't even in the squad of 18 for tomorrow's game at Cardiff.

[SaintDonkey]

While we're picking at old scabs I don't think we shoulld have ever gotten rid of Chris Nicholl, but I think it may be time to move on.

[Colinjb]

While we're picking at old scabs I don't think we shoulld have ever gotten rid of Chris Nicholl, but I think it may be time to move on.

 

You may have a point there.

 

Still can't believe Le Tiss was left out of the 1998 World Cup squad though, and on the same topic, how on earth could Greenwood drop Channon!?

Edited 8 August, 2008 by Colinjb

[tiger]

It always amazes me how much criticism a manager gets when players either don't perform or don't appear to be putting in the effort they perhaps should be, and yet the players themselves appear to get off with pretty much a free ride.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think he lost "interest", as such. He was, to my mind, fully focussed on the job. However, and he certainly didn't tire of mentioning it , our three best players from the playoff season were sold and not really replaced (certainly not like-for-like). When "working" conditions change like that, it's not entirely unexpected for some people to become a bit demoralised by the situation.

 

That's not to defend how poor we were for most of last season, and the fitness was a major problem and reason for our mid-season slump, but I think a large slice of the blame does have to be laid to rest on the shoulders of the players who put us into that position. After all, the manager doesn't cross that white line at 2.55pm, does he? It's quite telling that a large number of last season's first-team regulars aren't even in the squad of 18 for tomorrow's game at Cardiff.

 

 

I take your point re losing the 3 best players but even so he was being paid the same amount and if Rupert is to believed he had a promising crop of young players coming through which he chose to ignore. He was still obliged to give it his best shot which clearly he did not.

 

As for your other point about whether the manager should shoulder an unfair percentage of the blame - it is debatable. At the end of the day if he picks or buys players that do not do the business then it is his responsibility. It maybe his motivation that is lacking, his man management or simply his ability. I have never seen a United side under Ferguson that did not look motivated or fit but I did see one or two under his predecessor. I never saw a Saints side under Strachan that didn't look fit but there were plenty under Burley.

 

Of course a manager cannot control what goes on once a player has crossed the white line but he does have the power to ensure he doesn't cross that white line again.

[tiger]

You may have a point there.

 

Still can't believe Le Tiss was left out of the 1998 World Cup squad though, and on the same topic, how on earth could Greenwood drop Channon!?

 

 

Can't help dropping by eh Colin?

[Colinjb]

Can't help dropping by eh Colin?

 

Indeed I can't. You seemed to be hanging around so thought it rude not to say 'Hi.'

[stevegrant]

As for your other point about whether the manager should shoulder an unfair percentage of the blame - it is debatable. At the end of the day if he picks or buys players that do not do the business then it is his responsibility.

For the most part, these were players who DID do the business the season before.

 

I have never seen a United side under Ferguson that did not look motivated or fit but I did see one or two under his predecessor.

I think using Ferguson, the most successful British manager of all time, is a little bit unfair, don't you?

 

I never saw a Saints side under Strachan that didn't look fit but there were plenty under Burley.

As soon as the whole "will Strachan go and save Leeds" thing had passed and we were 4th place at Christmas after easily beating Pompey 3-0, we looked complete and utter ****e until Strachan left. Lack of fitness appeared to play a part there, in my opinion, and yet Strachan rarely has a bad word said about him despite leaving a lot of disinterested and unfit players for his successor.

[tiger]

While we're picking at old scabs I don't think we shoulld have ever gotten rid of Chris Nicholl, but I think it may be time to move on.

 

Some old scabs are older than others Saint Donkey. There is plenty of references to the football played under Burley last season elsewhere on this forum today so I believe this thread is comparaively relevant. You obviously do not. That is your perogative.

Incidentally I thought at the time Nicholl had reached his sell by date. Performances in the last few months of his final season were dire inc that dreadful 2-6 defeat at Derby. That puts me in the same camp as Guy Askham - God forbid!

[tiger]

For the most part, these were players who DID do the business the season before.

 

 

I think using Ferguson, the most successful British manager of all time, is a little bit unfair, don't you?

 

 

As soon as the whole "will Strachan go and save Leeds" thing had passed and we were 4th place at Christmas after easily beating Pompey 3-0, we looked complete and utter ****e until Strachan left. Lack of fitness appeared to play a part there, in my opinion, and yet Strachan rarely has a bad word said about him despite leaving a lot of disinterested and unfit players for his successor.

 

I accept Strachan tailed off once he decided he was not getting the support but Burley's sides were never as fit as Strachans...ever. As for Ferguson ok slighly unfair but someone else earlier brought his and Clough's name up when comparing them to Burley.

[NickG]

 

Can't agree with that .

We were awful last season right from Chrystal Palace in August and we never really got above mid table at best .

 

Nigel Pearson will go down in Saints history as a major success - the implication that he just 'continued the slide' is grossly unfair when you take all the difficult circumstances he inherited into consideration .

 

I say this having been a defender of George Burley .

 

he won't! He did ok at best. 3 wins.

Never really got above mid-table with GB last season -yes but would have dreamt of that any time after!

[Rod Le Shearer]

This forum and the one before seems to be very antipathetic towards Burley's time in charge, now the dust has settled from last year, and yet even up until his departure, a few months ago, people like "Bournemouth Saint" and "Sad old Git" were vehement that he was God's gift to management.

 

Are they now prepared to admit that GB had, by and large, given up on his job as Saints manager once his spending spree had not got us back to the Prem and also accept he then saw the job as a stepping stone to pastures more lucrative?

 

If not I would welcome them defending Burley a little bit more because of late they have been very silent. Bournemouth Saint care to comment?

 

I liked Burley,and can make a comment: it is quite hilarious how the anti-GB`s are bloating now,BEFORE a ball has even been kicked ! us people with common sense are waiting to see how the new season turns out,before we make any judgements. if this year is better than last,then great !

but I sure hope you lot dont jinx yourselves (and all of us in the process),by taking every joy on advantage.

its interesting to notice the difference in humility and social inteligence between the Anti GB`s and the others,BTW.

you are the prime example of the core of the first.retarded and dysfunctioning memebers of the web-society.

I doubt any of us who enjoyed having GB here,will bloat if things go pear-shaped this year.

guess who will be the ones who complain the most,if Portvliet does badly..?

YES,all the people moaning loudest about GB...

[Rod Le Shearer]

he won't! He did ok at best. 3 wins.

Never really got above mid-table with GB last season -yes but would have dreamt of that any time after!

 

too right. Pearson was a disaster,nothing more,nothing less.

the crap he served us was shocking,no entertainment or plan whatsoever.

maybe we could have scraped above relegation this season with him still here,but that would be with only 10.000 people watching from the stands of SMS.

[tiger]

too right. Pearson was a disaster,nothing more,nothing less.

the crap he served us was shocking,no entertainment or plan whatsoever.

maybe we could have scraped above relegation this season with him still here,but that would be with only 10.000 people watching from the stands of SMS.

 

Am I missing some irony here?

How can you describe Pearson as a disaster?

Twas not pretty I agree but needs must and he rescued us from a very dodgy position which originated from some very shaky foundations left by Burley.

I will resist making personal insults as you have done in your previous post which kinda ruined your point of view, if I am frank. never mind!

[NickG]

look at league tables for

 

day GB left

 

day NP took over

 

last day of season.

 

It is just inaccurate to say GB had us in relegation battle, or that NP was "great".

 

We were under performing with GB, we dropped further under JG/JD, NP steadied the players (who not long before had been doing ok) had too many draws, should have had us safe before last game and scraped through. Seemed very decent character.

[OldNick]

I accept Strachan tailed off once he decided he was not getting the support but Burley's sides were never as fit as Strachans...ever. As for Ferguson ok slighly unfair but someone else earlier brought his and Clough's name up when comparing them to Burley.

Fergusons and Cloughs name were brought in by my as an example of managers who are siad to like a drink but were successful.

WGS lost interest when Bridgey was sold.He said at the time that as soon as you get close to the big clubs they buy your best players. GB suffered the same and it does sag the morale.

[Colinjb]

look at league tables for

 

day GB left

 

day NP took over

 

last day of season.

 

It is just inaccurate to say GB had us in relegation battle, or that NP was "great".

 

We were under performing with GB, we dropped further under JG/JD, NP steadied the players (who not long before had been doing ok) had too many draws, should have had us safe before last game and scraped through. Seemed very decent character.

 

My two pence.

 

Don't blame Burley

Don't put the onus on Pearson

....look who took over the squad at the end of Burley's tenure and turned them into the f*ckless lot that nearly took us down.

 

Step up Crouch, Dodd and Gorman.

[Rod Le Shearer]

Am I missing some irony here?

How can you describe Pearson as a disaster?

Twas not pretty I agree but needs must and he rescued us from a very dodgy position which originated from some very shaky foundations left by Burley.

I will resist making personal insults as you have done in your previous post which kinda ruined your point of view, if I am frank. never mind!

 

 

those "shaking foundations" had us sitting comfortably in mid-table,with some deluded anti-GB`s thinking about reaching the play-offs as soon as he left ! end of.

 

you are confusing facts with fiction,as it suits you. the ones leaving a shaky foundation for NP,were Dodd and Gorman. still,I didnt expect to be in the bottom three the match before the season came to an end,with the talent NP had as his disposal.

 

at the end of the day,NP did an OK job in keeping us up-after he got us in that position in the first place. but I`m cringing by the thought of having him and his awful football here for a whole season..

[tiger]

those "shaking foundations" had us sitting comfortably in mid-table,with some deluded anti-GB`s thinking about reaching the play-offs as soon as he left ! end of.

 

you are confusing facts with fiction,as it suits you. the ones leaving a shaky foundation for NP,were Dodd and Gorman. still,I didnt expect to be in the bottom three the match before the season came to an end,with the talent NP had as his disposal.

 

at the end of the day,NP did an OK job in keeping us up-after he got us in that position in the first place. but I`m cringing by the thought of having him and his awful football here for a whole season..

 

Sorry Rod, was going to let this thread die but 2 genuine questions coming up having read what you just wrote.

 

Did you really expect to see Pearson putting out a side to play good football at any stage considering the mess we were in when he was appointed.

 

Do you think the position we found ourselves going into that Sheff Utd match was all or mainly due to Pearson?

[OldNick]

Do you think the position we found ourselves going into that Sheff Utd match was all or mainly due to Pearson?

Considering he had 13-14 games to get us safe , I do think he was responsible. Like GB/D&G they are all gone and its time to move on.

[Andy_Porter]

I honestly don't understand how any Saints fan can not appreciate the job Pearson done when he took over as manager.

 

We where an utter shambles from the Christmas period until a few games into Pearson's stint. We where used to losing games and stuck in a massive rut with unfit and unmotivated players and in the space of 13 games Pearson turned it around completely. I remember walking away from the Bristol Rovers game, I've never been that disappointed about a Saints side before, I was 100% sure we would go down and I'm not really a negative person.

 

Like I said at the start I simply cannot understand how anyone can think he did a bad job. Sure his record wasn't great 3 wins , 3 losses and a load of draws but you have to look past that and see how much the team's mentality changed once Pearson was there, I'm not surprised the players weren't spot on mentally after the D&G stint, the whole club was a shambles and luckily for SFC Pearson managed to turn it around and keep us up.

 

Richard Wright, Chris Lucketti and Chris Perry also deserve a lot of the praise, they where all good signings who gave there all to keep this club up and I'm personally glad one of them will be with us next season.

 

A new management team to get behind now though, lets hope we get off to a flyer and we're looking at the other end of the table next season.

[Andy_Porter]

Considering he had 13-14 games to get us safe , I do think he was responsible. Like GB/D&G they are all gone and its time to move on.

 

You honestly think Pearson was more to blame than Dodd and Gorman or Crouch for taking so long to pick a manager? are you mad?!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

NP will go down as a success in many fans heads. He took us to the brink of rellegation and 3we were saved on the final day, by a good result.If many fans had their way on that day John would not have been in the team!!! We were fortunate that Sheff utd knew that they wrre playing for nothing second half and eventually let go, add to that BT'S decision to be injured and NP will go doewn in history OK.

Had the worst happened then the tame 0-0 draw at home to Coventry and the pathetic results v an unmotivated Cardiff and Burnley home would have more focus.

 

To be honest I'm more interested in the final league table than any number of 'ifs or buts' .

Nigel Pearson was appointed last February with one task to perform - to keep SFC in the championship . History shows he achieved that aim , all other considerations are unimportant now . If you give a man a job and he successfully accomplished that task then he must count as a success in my book .

 

I will remind you he took over after a humiliating defeat to Bristol Rovers on the BBC , that game being only the last of a dismal run of poor performances under both George Burley and Dodd/Gorman . Nigel working with a totally demoralised squad never had the services of two of our better players (Rasiak & Skacel) , he almost immediately lost our player of the season (Davies) and to cap it all at one stage we had no less than 3 goalkeepers injured !

 

I would hope any fair-minded Saints fan would take these extremely difficult circumstances into account before labeling NP as a failure only fit to "continue the slide" as you have . :mad:

 

Everyone on this forum will be well aware that you post with an agenda , ie to support everything that's going on at SFC now almost without exception . You can put forward virtually any argument you like as far as I'm concerned , but in unfairly attacking the reputation of a decent young English manager such as Nigel Pearson merely to score a few debating points you've gone too far .

[sadoldgit]

This forum and the one before seems to be very antipathetic towards Burley's time in charge, now the dust has settled from last year, and yet even up until his departure, a few months ago, people like "Bournemouth Saint" and "Sad old Git" were vehement that he was God's gift to management.

 

Are they now prepared to admit that GB had, by and large, given up on his job as Saints manager once his spending spree had not got us back to the Prem and also accept he then saw the job as a stepping stone to pastures more lucrative?

 

If not I would welcome them defending Burley a little bit more because of late they have been very silent. Bournemouth Saint care to comment?

 

Feel free to find a quote from me where I said that he was God's gift to management. I merely said that I thought he wasn't as bad as a lot of people here thought (check out his record against other managers) and that we did okay in his first full season.

 

We were inconstistant but much closer to the play offs than relegation when he left and after he left we fell like a stone. It is all very well harping on about Pearson but he only won 3 games and nearly took us down.

 

I don't know Burley personally but can imagine that any manager worth his salt would have been well hacked off by Hone's statement and by having his better players sold from under him when the expectations were so high. Good luck to him if he found a better job. Who here would not do the same?

 

Anyway, he is history now so I am waiting to see how the Dutch Duo do as they are running things now and not Burley.

[Andy_Porter]

Funny how whenever someone wants to knock the job Pearsons done they only mention how many we won and not how many we lost.

[70's Mike]

You honestly think Pearson was more to blame than Dodd and Gorman or Crouch for taking so long to pick a manager? are you mad?!

 

i think a lot of people find it easy to blame pearson it makes it easier to support the decision to replace him

[Baird of the land]

Chapel end saint wrote "I will remind you he took over after a humiliating defeat to Bristol Rovers on the BBC , that game being only the last of a dismal run of poor performances under both George Burley and Dodd/Gorman "

 

How you can on one hand complain about people questioning Pearson's record and then on the other attack burley is comical. We were in mid table obscurity when Burley left after drawing games over christmas, hardly any more dismal than pearson's draws. Dodd and gorman presided over the slump to the edge of the relegation zone and pearson worked hard and kept us up. I'll give you that much. Whether he'd have gone on and done anything is pointless debate as its a case 'what if speculation'. you'd get a lot more sympathy from me if you'd tell it as it was rather than build up pearson and knock down burley. Both Burley and Pearson had mixed individual performances but under both we scrapped points while under dodd and Gorman we lost multiple home games and a cup game versus BR.

[sadoldgit]

Funny how whenever someone wants to knock the job Pearsons done they only mention how many we won and not how many we lost.

 

 

At the end of the day his points haul was not that great was it? Not trying to knock him, but he hardly set the world alight did he? You would think we finished in the top six the way some people go on about him. The truth is that we stayed up by the skin of our teeth.

 

I hope he does well in his new job, but I hope our new guys do better.

[tiger]

To be honest I'm more interested in the final league table than any number of 'ifs or buts' .

Nigel Pearson was appointed last February with one task to perform - to keep SFC in the championship . History shows he achieved that aim , all other considerations are unimportant now . If you give a man a job and he successfully accomplished that task then he must count as a success in my book .

 

I will remind you he took over after a humiliating defeat to Bristol Rovers on the BBC , that game being only the last of a dismal run of poor performances under both George Burley and Dodd/Gorman . Nigel working with a totally demoralised squad never had the services of two of our better players (Rasiak & Skacel) , he almost immediately lost our player of the season (Davies) and to cap it all at one stage we had no less than 3 goalkeepers injured !

 

I would hope any fair-minded Saints fan would take these extremely difficult circumstances into account before labeling NP as a failure only fit to "continue the slide" as you have . :mad:

 

Everyone on this forum will be well aware that you post with an agenda , ie to support everything that's going on at SFC now almost without exception . You can put forward virtually any argument you like as far as I'm concerned , but in unfairly attacking the reputation of a decent young English manager such as Nigel Pearson merely to score a few debating points you've gone too far .

 

 

I quite agree and I do think NickH is lacking objectivity in his unqualified support for the new regime - that is not a bad thing but it is unfair to castigate Pearson at the same time!

[tiger]

At the end of the day his points haul was not that great was it? Not trying to knock him, but he hardly set the world alight did he? You would think we finished in the top six the way some people go on about him. The truth is that we stayed up by the skin of our teeth.

 

I hope he does well in his new job, but I hope our new guys do better.

 

SoG, he was hardly given the task to set the world alight was he? His job was to stop the rot and keep us up. He did it. Can't understand why people refer to his tenure as disastrous. I was a little anti his appointment as it smacked of LM nepotism but at the end of the day he was successful. Yet people feel happy slagging him.

[tiger]

Considering he had 13-14 games to get us safe , I do think he was responsible. Like GB/D&G they are all gone and its time to move on.

 

What ignorance!

He had 13-14 games to sort out the mess Burley took 2 years to get us into.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Chapel end saint wrote "I will remind you he took over after a humiliating defeat to Bristol Rovers on the BBC , that game being only the last of a dismal run of poor performances under both George Burley and Dodd/Gorman "

 

How you can on one hand complain about people questioning Pearson's record and then on the other attack burley is comical. We were in mid table obscurity when Burley left after drawing games over christmas, hardly any more dismal than pearson's draws. Dodd and gorman presided over the slump to the edge of the relegation zone and pearson worked hard and kept us up. I'll give you that much. Whether he'd have gone on and done anything is pointless debate as its a case 'what if speculation'. you'd get a lot more sympathy from me if you'd tell it as it was rather than build up pearson and knock down burley. Both Burley and Pearson had mixed individual performances but under both we scrapped points while under dodd and Gorman we lost multiple home games and a cup game versus BR.

 

I was actually a supporter of George Burley , not one of his many critics .

It's intellectually dishonest to stubbornly defend a point of view when it becomes superseded by events , we all have to move on sometimes and admit that we were wrong . In retrospect I (and others) defended Burley for far too long - that's the truth of the matter .

 

By last Christmas at the latest any Saints fan with eyes in there head could see it was time for Burley to go , you were there you must have see how poorly we played for much of the 07/08 season . The manager must carry his share of the blame for the teams poor performances last season . It's my opinion that had GB not gotten the Scotland job we would have been relegated last season .

[saintwarwick]

But Nick any criticism of GB last season was met by a near crescendo of posters praising what he was doing and yet now those same posters are slagging down the way the team performed last season. Seems a bit hypocritic really.

 

Had he stayed I think we would have gone down because we really were on the slide and NP did well to reverse (just about) the speed of the decline.

 

Far from it, we had 37 points from 28 games and was 5 points from a play off place but 10 points from a relegation place. We started our slide when Burley left and D&G took over. Burley may of underperformed during the season and the team often erratic but we still ground out results.

[Andy_Porter]

Far from it, we had 37 points from 28 games and was 5 points from a play off place but 10 points from a relegation place. We started our slide when Burley left and D&G took over. Burley may of underperformed during the season and the team often erratic but we still ground out results.

 

The slide started over the festive period. No doubt about that, Watford in particular was a joke.

[saintwarwick]

I was actually a supporter of George Burley , not one of his many critics .

It's intellectually dishonest to stubbornly defend a point of view when it becomes superseded by events , we all have to move on sometimes and admit that we were wrong . In retrospect I (and others) defended Burley for far too long - that's the truth of the matter .

 

By last Christmas at the latest any Saints fan with eyes in there head could see it was time for Burley to go , you were there you must have see how poorly we played for much of the 07/08 season . The manager must carry his share of the blame for the teams poor performances last season . It's my opinion that had GB not gotten the Scotland job we would have been relegated last season .

 

It's my opinion that had Burley not got the Scotland job we would not of been fighting relegation, merely finishing mid table.

[Colinjb]

It's my opinion that had Burley not got the Scotland job we would not of been fighting relegation, merely finishing mid table.

 

Agreed. His motivation lapsed well and truly as soon as he felt he had a sniff at the job he would have dreamed of when young and playing.

 

Had Scotland not expressed interest in Burley last season would have been mid table and boring.