NickG Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 You go to games but do you actually watch ? Guly is not really that pacy (but quicker than Lambert I suppose - is that what you mean?) and his first touch can be comical at times - as witnessed by the entire Chapel Stand at the last home game. Do try and pay attention. when I see the same bizarre game as you I will worry! And will probably join you in your pessimistic depression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 A prime example of the misleading use of statistics - only if and when a player actually plays "46 games season" can you draw the conclusion you have. Yet you've drawn yours on Antonio only making 14 starts over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Not sure who you're looking at but the Guly I've been watching is f*cking quick. Perhaps not the acceleration of Chamberlain but at full tilt he can go some. agree, probably got the v quick players - Ox-C, Forte, then Guly will be one of the quickest of rest, certainly noticeably quicker than Barnard or Lallana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Not sure who you're looking at but the Guly I've been watching is f*cking quick. Perhaps not the acceleration of Chamberlain but at full tilt he can go some. I agree with CEC, i dont think Guly is especially quick and his first touch can at times be terrible, but 8 goals and 6 assists in 19 starts proves he is effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 his passing, control and shooting can all at times be very poor - worst than most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 when I see the same bizarre game as you I will worry! And will probably join you in your pessimistic depression Not at all depressed, but thanks for your concern. Don't bother joining me - I prefer the company of the more astute type of fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 yes, but talking to yourself is clearly not helping with your pessimism or understanding of the game Think you have some very strange ideas, thankfully on your own for most of them, but you are entitled to your opinion, even if you do ignore facts, but best to agree to disagree. Think the points have been clearly made, even if you choose to change your rationale in the face of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Yet you've drawn yours on Antonio only making 14 starts over a season. My view of Antonio was based entirely on watching the lad play and using my best judgment regarding his ultimate potential - numbers have nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 But rating the true potential of any player really is a hell of a lot more complicated than compiling a set of mere numbers - especially when the 'numbers' are not even accurately compiled and truly comparable in the first place. Even if you were to ignore his obvious 'bell end' tendencies JP is not all that special a player in my view - you don't have to spend very long on here to realise that I'm far from alone in holding that opinion. The more observant on here could see that long before he left this club that the relationship between JP and at least some of his teammates was problematic - judging from the body language Dan Harding ready to throttle him on more than one occasion. (not a personal attack before you jump on it) Puncheon is rated by many people on here whose footballing opinions I often agree with and respect. He is a good winger, direct, creative and reads the game well. Early in the season we had such poor movement infront of us there was little he could do, often moving up the wing and then having no real options infront of him. He also doesn't play well as an inside forward, Lallana does, but he doesn't, some wingers do and some don't. IMHO Puncheon will go on and play at a higher level than Antonio does, I honestly see Antonio perhaps forging a career at league one or lower championship level. But no more, he is just too inconsistant and technically not good enough. Puncheon however will probably end up as a solid Champ player. And yes, rating a player is more than just looking at stats, which is why I tend to go on observation, you are however are obviously a 'stat man' which is why i find it strange that you are argueing against them, Guly is a good player, occasionally looks lost but then he is not a wide midfielder and not really a striker !! Nevertheless he puts in a great shift, is possibly one of the most technical players in the league and has scored some very vital goals. Personally I like him and what he brings to the team which is creating space and chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 yes, but talking to yourself is clearly not helping with your pessimism or understanding of the game Think you have some very strange ideas, thankfully on your own for most of them, but you are entitled to your opinion, even if you do ignore facts, but best to agree to disagree. Think the points have been clearly made, even if you choose to change your rationale in the face of them! Oh talking to myself would produce a hell of a lot more sense that any conversation with you. Why do you habitually find it "strange" when people dare to disagree with you? given your posting record I'd have thought you would have gotten used to it by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Very few posters I find strange and usually wrong, can only think of two at the moment (guess the two anyone?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Guly polarises opinions of fans, much like Waigo. I firmly believe his unpredictability and ocassional piece of individual flair is vital, especially when we're without Lallana. We'd be worse off without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 My view of Antonio was based entirely on watching the lad play and using my best judgment regarding his ultimate potential - numbers have nothing to do with it. Just out of interest, what's your take on Forte? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 (not a personal attack before you jump on it) Puncheon is rated by many people on here whose footballing opinions I often agree with and respect. He is a good winger, direct, creative and reads the game well. Early in the season we had such poor movement infront of us there was little he could do, often moving up the wing and then having no real options infront of him. He also doesn't play well as an inside forward, Lallana does, but he doesn't, some wingers do and some don't. IMHO Puncheon will go on and play at a higher level than Antonio does, I honestly see Antonio perhaps forging a career at league one or lower championship level. But no more, he is just too inconsistant and technically not good enough. Puncheon however will probably end up as a solid Champ player. And yes, rating a player is more than just looking at stats, which is why I tend to go on observation, you are however are obviously a 'stat man' which is why i find it strange that you are argueing against them, Guly is a good player, occasionally looks lost but then he is not a wide midfielder and not really a striker !! Nevertheless he puts in a great shift, is possibly one of the most technical players in the league and has scored some very vital goals. Personally I like him and what he brings to the team which is creating space and chances. My posting record is there for all to see - it shows I hardly ever use stats. But it does show a consistent and long held opposition to the misuse of statistics. If any set of numbers are not compiled accurately on a strictly comparable basis then they are of little or no use - indeed they can often be actively misleading. I have no real argument with Guly fans - we all have our favorites after all - but (just my opinion) his limitations come dangerously close to outweighing his contributions - put another way he's a bit of a luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 (edited) Just out of interest, what's your take on Forte? I don't really know what to make of him, he is certainly quick (a vital attribute for any player) but I'd like to see more of him before drawing any firm conclusion. Even when I do make my mind up on a player I find it wise to keep a open mind - a bad player can improve over time and a good one deteriorate. I remember slating Stern John only for the player to force a change of view. Perhaps we should all try to exhibit a tad more humility at times. Who knows even Puncheon might impress me on next Saturdays Match of the Day - if he does I'll let you know. Edited 20 April, 2011 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0108787 Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 So is it confimed that Barney is out? Or are we just slitting wrists willy nilly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 I don't really know what to make of him, he is certainly quick (a vital attribute for any player) but I'd like to see more of him before drawing any firm conclusion. Even when I do make my mind up on a player I find it wise to keep a open mind - a bad player can improve over time and a good one deteriorate. I remember slating Stern John only for the player to force a change of view. Perhaps we should all try to exhibit a tad more humility at times. Who knows even Puncheon might impress me on next Saturdays Match of the Day - if he does I'll let you know. It's difficult to draw an opinon over a player over 5 minutes of highlights, you can only do it over a full 90's minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 So is it confimed that Barney is out? Or are we just slitting wrists willy nilly? Not confirmed by anyone at the club. So yeh, assumptions followed by a few people slitting wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0108787 Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Not confirmed by anyone at the club. So yeh, assumptions followed by a few people slitting wrists. i'll go get my razor then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 Oh talking to myself would produce a hell of a lot more sense that any conversation with you. Why do you habitually find it "strange" when people dare to disagree with you? given your posting record I'd have thought you would have gotten used to it by now. Pot... Kettle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 20 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 20 April, 2011 No nothing official and I would suggest you dont hold your breath on that one due to club policy on injuries these days. The player did say however he was out for the season and you would think he would know being a mate of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0108787 Posted 20 April, 2011 Share Posted 20 April, 2011 No nothing official and I would suggest you dont hold your breath on that one due to club policy on injuries these days. The player did say however he was out for the season and you would think he would know being a mate of his. Not being funny, but unless it comes from the club doctor / physio i still wouldn't take that as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Fag Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 what a pile of dog shiiite Waigo/Antonio/Puncheon ............. who cares? None of them would be playing this season anyway with Chamberlain coming through This, i think, was about Barnard being out for the season not bloody right wingers, Guly proved earlier in the season he can fill that role, with Connelly on the bench we should be fine although another injury may mean a tactical re think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acetripper Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 Genuinely sorry to hear about you losing 'Barney' for the last few games! When he's on fire he's one of the best in this League and no mistake. You probably now realise how we felt when Pilks broke his leg and dislocated his ankle and how annoying it was when some of your numpties were gloating! Good Luck anyway! (In the play-offs!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 Genuinely sorry to hear about you losing 'Barney' for the last few games! When he's on fire he's one of the best in this League and no mistake. You probably now realise how we felt when Pilks broke his leg and dislocated his ankle and how annoying it was when some of your numpties were gloating! Good Luck anyway! (In the play-offs!) LOL, if you think this is a big deal to us you haven't been paying much attention, we've had about half the team injured for the last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 what a pile of dog shiiite Waigo/Antonio/Puncheon ............. who cares? None of them would be playing this season anyway with Chamberlain coming through This, i think, was about Barnard being out for the season not bloody right wingers, Guly proved earlier in the season he can fill that role, with Connelly on the bench we should be fine although another injury may mean a tactical re think summarises it well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 F'sure I was and now we are down to the bare bones, I would have got a shedload of players in F'sure Strange that when parodying the speech of an ill-educated manager you say "I would have" but in your own words in your previous post you say "they may well of". Seems 'arry can teach us something other than just how to manage a football team when allowed to get on with it without interference from those who know nothing about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 So is it confimed that Barney is out? Or are we just slitting wrists willy nilly? Not confirmed by anyone at the club. So yeh, assumptions followed by a few people slitting wrists. No nothing official and I would suggest you dont hold your breath on that one due to club policy on injuries these days. The player did say however he was out for the season and you would think he would know being a mate of his. Not being funny, but unless it comes from the club doctor / physio i still wouldn't take that as gospel. From my seat on Saturday he was in extreme pain and obviously couldn't walk. According to the brighton preview he has been resting at home all week. I very much doubt he will recover in enough time to train again and play before the end of the season which is only 16 days away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 On Twitter from jordansibley : Adkins confirms Barnard out for season. #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 21 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 21 April, 2011 theres a shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 From my seat on Saturday he was in extreme pain and obviously couldn't walk. According to the brighton preview he has been resting at home all week. I very much doubt he will recover in enough time to train again and play before the end of the season which is only 16 days away. We hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 Strange that when parodying the speech of an ill-educated manager you say "I would have" but in your own words in your previous post you say "they may well of". Seems 'arry can teach us something other than just how to manage a football team when allowed to get on with it without interference from those who know nothing about the game. Grammatical quirks aside, telling a manager he can't just go out and spend fcvkloads of cash on any player he wants hardly constitutes "interference", even when he's got previous for buying absolutely shedloads of crap and hoping some of it sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acetripper Posted 21 April, 2011 Share Posted 21 April, 2011 LOL, if you think this is a big deal to us you haven't been paying much attention, we've had about half the team injured for the last month. While I can see you've had players out lately we've had people out at crucial times throughout the season. Lost count of how many left backs that've been injured, even the loanees who replaced loanees in that position got injured. However, I hope you appreciate the spirit in which I posted on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 22 April, 2011 Share Posted 22 April, 2011 http://downatthemac.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=56217 How nice, they seem to have short memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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