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Barnard out for the season


doggface

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If this is true then I for am will be Gutted to see Barney out for the next 5/6 games or whatever we have left of this coming season but hopefully he will be able to play some part at least by the Plymouth/Walsall game but we'l see with that one!

Also I hope Guly/Connolly get us the goals that will see us go up to the Championship for next season too and now would be a Good time for Rickie Lambert to step up again and also score us vital goals as well to get us up ;)!

Good Luck Barney n Get Better Soon Mate!

COYR :D!!

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Potentially misleading.

 

From memory Papa Waigo & Michail Antonio were (in the main) used as substitutes last season while Guly on the other hand has actually started plenty of games. A more telling stat than a crude tally of appearances would be the number of goals scored per minute played, or would that not fit your argument?

 

As you have raised this matter the onus is on you to prove your case.

 

Guly 19 league starts, (sub 11) goals 8

Antonio 14 league starts, (sub 14) - goals 3

 

assists Guly 6, Antonio 2

 

This does little or nothing to answer the goals per minute question.

 

Fair minded fans will also bare in mind that Antonio was a mere teenager while Guly is a experienced 28 year old processional in the prime of his career.

 

it does pretty much answer it!

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Guly has won both Charlton home and Bristol Rovers home with 2 goals and one assist despite playing wide so get off his back!

 

Barney has been doing well but is hardly a world beater - Connelly was different class and well up for it on Saturday.

 

It's midfield that is more worrying, Deano is holding things together at the moment with Chaplow and Stephenson struggling....

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No it really doesn't. A substitute appearance can last for 30 seconds or 89 minutes.

 

Alright then, let's suppose Guly came on in the first minute every time he was a substitute. Lets also suppose Anotnio came on n the 90th minute, one second before added time ended. then those statistics become:

 

Guly 19 league starts, (sub 11) = 30 games @ 90 minutes = 2700 minutes for 8 goals: 337.5 minutes per goal

Antonio 14 league starts, (sub 14) = 14 games @ 90 minutes = 1260 minutes for 3 goals 3: 420 minutes per goal

Plus of course your assumption (Guly always gets 90 minutes as a sub, Antonio never got 1 minute) is total nonsense.

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This does little or nothing to answer the goals per minute question.

 

Fair minded fans will also bare in mind that Antonio was a mere teenager while Guly is a experienced 28 year old processional in the prime of his career.

 

Oh look you lost another arguement and are now changing your original one to try and bend it around your agenda, strange that.

 

Besides, I said at the start of the season we should worry about our lack of cover upfront more than anything else, Guly did well to assess these fears but is not an out an out striker. Its a shame, I don't doubt that we attempted to get someone in, and it must have been difficult convincing someone of the required ability they MAY be playing second fiddle to Lambert and Barnard.

 

I just worry about Connolly, it is IMO just a matter of minutes until he is injured again and I worry about his impact, don't get me wrong, he was great at the weekend but then absolutely dire against Plymouth earlier in the season.

Edited by Smirking_Saint
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Alright then, let's suppose Guly came on in the first minute every time he was a substitute. Lets also suppose Anotnio came on n the 90th minute, one second before added time ended. then those statistics become:

 

Guly 19 league starts, (sub 11) = 30 games @ 90 minutes = 2700 minutes for 8 goals: 337.5 minutes per goal

Antonio 14 league starts, (sub 14) = 14 games @ 90 minutes = 1260 minutes for 3 goals 3: 420 minutes per goal

Plus of course your assumption (Guly always gets 90 minutes as a sub, Antonio never got 1 minute) is total nonsense.

 

pretty convincing!

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So after the arguments about golas per game, maybe one thing to watch out for Saturday IF Guly plays up front.

 

Who takes the "on the shoulder" role and "who drops off"?

 

When Barney plays RL drops into the role of provider our wide. HOPEFULLY the injury to LB means that RL now takes this role & (finally) starts getting into those positions many of us hoped all season, with Guly being the man to drop out wide.

 

Now THAT could be interesting.

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For me, I hope they move Guly back up front with Lambert and use Connolly off the bench. Guly's outstanding form came earlier in the season when he played in this role and for me its his best.

 

All the "Taxi for Do Prado" and recent criticism, come from when he plays in a wider midfield role.

 

Yes, agree with you on this, man from Brussels, 6'4 and full of muscles. :)

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go back to end of Dec / early Dec to see how well Guly / Lambert can play together - Barnard couldn't get a start

 

Ah yup, agree with that

 

Barnard - goals & 120% effort cannot knock it, defending from the front, Guly weak link out wide. No LB defending from the front no Guly making the mess in midfield being in an un-accustomed role - probaly will balance itself out

 

Guly/Lambert, like you said LB doesn't get in the team because IMHO they fit the formation better. (but LB is the better natural striker) I'm sure you'll have the stats about more goals/wins

 

Goes back to my Taxi for Barnard thread. We will miss him but it is not as totally catastrophic as some think IMHO, Guly & Lambo should be OK, more important our right side Midfield should be more stable and allow Butters to get into the game more instead of waiting to pick up the Guly mistakes

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I agree with OldNick, Forte and N'Guessan have not exactly set the league alight.

 

Forte came on as sub against MK Dons and scored 2, came on as sub second half v Rochdale and played well, and I thought he had a decent game on the left with Dickson on Saturday.

 

If Barnard is out, then we could play Guly up front (not sure who would play right), or keep Guly and Forte wide and play Lallana with Lambert. They played together a bit last season and did well. Or play Connolly up front and have Gully and Lallana playing wide.

 

For all the moaning about not signing this player or that, we aren't exactly chucking youth teamers in are we.

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Despite all these clowns without a clue critiscing Gully, goals win games and Gully has scored the same amount of goals in half the combinded appearances the supposed footballing gods of Papa Waigo and Antonio did for us last season.

 

Don't think Antonio is any better than Forte and N'Guesson - his only experience other than non-league was here. Expect if club wanted him on loan rather than those two could easily sorted loan.

 

There is not way that Peterborough would have sold CMS to us for anywhere near the figure you mentioned - or even double it. Doubt CMS would have signed any way he has made it clear he wants to look at higher level options at end of season and knows a potential premier league side wants him.

 

Think you are getting bit carried away with fantasy football!

 

Potentially misleading.

 

From memory Papa Waigo & Michail Antonio were (in the main) used as substitutes last season while Guly on the other hand has actually started plenty of games. A more telling stat than a crude tally of appearances would be the number of goals scored per minute played, or would that not fit your argument?

 

As you have raised this matter the onus is on you to prove your case.

 

Guly 19 league starts, (sub 11) goals 8

 

Antonio 14 league starts, (sub 14) - goals 3

 

assists Guly 6, Antonio 2

 

This does little or nothing to answer the goals per minute question.

 

Fair minded fans will also bare in mind that Antonio was a mere teenager while Guly is a experienced 28 year old processional in the prime of his career.

 

No it really doesn't. A substitute appearance can last for 30 seconds or 89 minutes.

 

Alright then, let's suppose Guly came on in the first minute every time he was a substitute. Lets also suppose Anotnio came on n the 90th minute, one second before added time ended. then those statistics become:

 

Guly 19 league starts, (sub 11) = 30 games @ 90 minutes = 2700 minutes for 8 goals: 337.5 minutes per goal

Antonio 14 league starts, (sub 14) = 14 games @ 90 minutes = 1260 minutes for 3 goals 3: 420 minutes per goal

Plus of course your assumption (Guly always gets 90 minutes as a sub, Antonio never got 1 minute) is total nonsense.

 

Oh, I forgot the assists, but maybe Charlie can sdo that one

 

so Charlie are you happier now?

 

Also remember who was CF alongside Lambret for our best run this season....Guly.

 

Don't try to understand him or predict him - just enjoy him!

Edited by NickG
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This does little or nothing to answer the goals per minute question.

 

Fair minded fans will also bare in mind that Antonio was a mere teenager while Guly is a experienced 28 year old processional in the prime of his career.

 

Fair minded fans will also remember that, although we all liked him in a Headless Chicken George sort of way, Antonio was gash (although less so than the equally popular but even more inept Papa Waigo). Your goals per minute question has been pretty well answered (you do the math). Furthermore age has nothing to do with it. Guly's contribution has been far greater and more positive than either Antonio or Papa Waigo and isn't that the point!

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Fair minded fans will also remember that, although we all liked him in a Headless Chicken George sort of way, Antonio was gash (although less so than the equally popular but even more inept Papa Waigo). Your goals per minute question has been pretty well answered (you do the math). Furthermore age has nothing to do with it. Guly's contribution has been far greater and more positive than either Antonio or Papa Waigo and isn't that the point!

 

I take it you didn't bother to go to the JPT final then?

 

On the contrary I don't think Antonio or Papa Waigo could be described as 'gash' by any fair observer - but I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to whether you fall into that category. As it seems SFC entered into negotiations with Reading with a view to signing Michail Antonio permanently it would seem the club don't share your point of view either, perhaps they're wrong as well. It remains my view that had we managed to retain the services of Michail Antonio & Papa Waigo for this season then we might well have done even better than we have.

 

Leaving your views to one side, as we are on the subject of wingers I see we now have all 3 of this forums most utterly tedious 'stooges' (Nick G/Turkish/Smirking) on here so perhaps these 3 esteemed 'members' might care to take this opportunity to reevaluate their enthusiastic championing of that wonderful footballing talent Jason Puncheon and what he was going to do for this football club.

 

Last summer they were certainly vocal enough in their assurances that we could do without Antonio because we had the great Puncheon on our books - uncharacteristically they now appear to have gone surprisingly quiet on that question ........

 

Never mind, no one can be right all of the time, just try and be right every now and again boys. :lol:

Edited by CHAPEL END CHARLIE
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I take it you didn't bother to go to the JPT final then?

 

On the contrary I don't think Antonio or Papa Waigo could be described as 'gash' by any fair observer - but I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to whether you fall into that category. As it seems SFC entered into negotiations with Reading with a view to signing Michail Antonio permanently it would seem the club don't share your point of view either, perhaps they're wrong as well. It remains my view that had we managed to retain the services of Michail Antonio & Papa Waigo for this season then we might well have done even better than we have.

 

Leaving your views to one side, as we are on the subject of wingers I see we now have all 3 of this forums most utterly tedious 'stooges' (Nick G/Turkish/Smirking) on here so perhaps these 3 esteemed 'members' might care to take this opportunity to reevaluate their enthusiastic championing of that wonderful footballing talent Jason Puncheon and what he was going to do for this football club.

Last summer they were certainly vocal enough in their assurances that we could do without Antonio because we had the great Puncheon on our books - uncharacteristically they now appear to have gone surprisingly quiet on that question ........

 

Never mind, no one can be right all of the time, just try and be right every now and again boys. :lol:

 

Would this be the Jason Puncheon who is now playing in the premier league whilst Antonio bench warms (At best) for a championship side? The footballing god that is antonio has gone from teenage hopeful to SFC legend and the answer to all our prayers since he has left it would seem. Clearly the managers of championship Millwall and premier league Blackpool think he is a better player than Antonio, maybe they should have come to you for advice first though.

 

And as for your comments on what might have happened had two players who left had stayed, well lets speculate on what might have happened if they were still here and ignore all the evidence that Guly has been more effective than both of them. Mind you though i'm sure we'd have done a lot better if Bale, Walcott, Jones & Crouch had stayed.

Edited by Turkish
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Would this be the Jason Puncheon who is now playing in the premier league whilst Antonio bench warms (At best) for a championship side? Whilst you were extolling the virtues of the footballing god that is antonio who has gone from teenage hopeful to SFC legend and the answer to all our prayers since he has left.

 

And as for your comments on what might have happened had two players who left had stayed, well lets speculate on what might have happened and ignore all the evidence that Guly has been more effective than both of them. F*ck it though, we'd have done a lot better if Bale, Walcott, Jones & Crouch had stayed.

 

As a stat fan I'm sure you can tell us all just how many points Blackpool have acquired since the great JP arrived ?

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As a stat fan I'm sure you can tell us all just how many points Blackpool have acquired since the great JP arrived ?

 

And i am sure you can tell us how many points Reading have since Antonio hasn't, or how many Millwall got whilst Puncheon was there. Maybe if Ian Holloway had spoken to you first he'd have signed Antonio and Waigo and Blackpool would now be challenging for the champions league.

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And i am sure you can tell us how many points Reading have since Antonio hasn't, or how many Millwall got whilst Puncheon was there. Maybe if Ian Holloway had spoken to you first he'd have signed Antonio and Waigo and Blackpool would now be challenging for the champions league.

 

So the answer is they've achieved next to nothing even with the invaluable assistance of your man then.

 

The fact that Antonio can't really break into one of the best sides in the championship is a terrible waste of a good young player - he needs a move - here would be nice.

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So the answer is they've achieved next to nothing even with the invaluable assistance of your man then.

 

The fact that Antonio can't really break into one of the best sides in the championship is a terrible waste of a good young player - he needs a move - here would be nice.

 

The difference is JP did very well at a decent championship side and earnt a move to the premier league and Antonio cant get anywhere near the first team of a side who apart from a very good run of late have been midtable all season. It's obvious which one is the better player, the championship reserve obviously. :rolleyes:

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I take it you didn't bother to go to the JPT final then?

 

On the contrary I don't think Antonio or Papa Waigo could be described as 'gash' by any fair observer - but I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to whether you fall into that category. As it seems SFC entered into negotiations with Reading with a view to signing Michail Antonio permanently it would seem the club don't share your point of view either, perhaps they're wrong as well. It remains my view that had we managed to retain the services of Michail Antonio & Papa Waigo for this season then we might well have done even better than we have.

 

Leaving your views to one side, as we are on the subject of wingers I see we now have all 3 of this forums most utterly tedious 'stooges' (Nick G/Turkish/Smirking) on here so perhaps these 3 esteemed 'members' might care to take this opportunity to reevaluate their enthusiastic championing of that wonderful footballing talent Jason Puncheon and what he was going to do for this football club.

 

Last summer they were certainly vocal enough in their assurances that we could do without Antonio because we had the great Puncheon on our books - uncharacteristically they now appear to have gone surprisingly quiet on that question ........

 

Never mind, no one can be right all of the time, just try and be right every now and again boys. :lol:

 

Yeah I went to the JPT, I also saw him quite a few times in the season aswell, I agree he had a half decent JPT final by all accounts but one swallow doesn't make a relationship and I would argue he was far from consistant through the season.

 

Now talking of Puncheon, this is no doubt the jason puncheon that is quite regularly getting games for a premier league side and who has also made such an impression on Championship Millwall that they were clamouring to have him back ?

 

Also, regarding your criticism of our opinion I would argue that with all respect how were we suposed to know that he was going to turn into a class A bellend ?? Perhaps that was something you identified with before and so fair play for getting your obviosly qualified opinion in so very soon.

 

I still struggle to see how you are defending your arguement considering the stats that have been put in front of you, considering of course that you are a stat man ? But then perhaps that is why you have changed your line of questioning and are now going down the character assassination route, I don't know.

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As a stat fan I'm sure you can tell us all just how many points Blackpool have acquired since the great JP arrived ?

 

Simple, undeniable fact is that JP is playing two leagues higher than us and that the two players you mention are either bit part players in the CCC or trawling the Italian league boondocks in Serie C1.

 

Like it or not, Guly's record is way better than either of the two pretenders.

 

You spitting your dummy out and stamping your feet isn't going to change it.

 

Quite bizzare how some of our fans have written the story of this season around two players who were never ours and not here.

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Yeah I went to the JPT, I also saw him quite a few times in the season aswell, I agree he had a half decent JPT final by all accounts but one swallow doesn't make a relationship and I would argue he was far from consistant through the season.

 

Now talking of Puncheon, this is no doubt the jason puncheon that is quite regularly getting games for a premier league side and who has also made such an impression on Championship Millwall that they were clamouring to have him back ?

 

Also, regarding your criticism of our opinion I would argue that with all respect how were we suposed to know that he was going to turn into a class A bellend ?? Perhaps that was something you identified with before and so fair play for getting your obviosly qualified opinion in so very soon.

 

I still struggle to see how you are defending your arguement considering the stats that have been put in front of you, considering of course that you are a stat man ? But then perhaps that is why you have changed your line of questioning and are now going down the character assassination route, I don't know.

 

But rating the true potential of any player really is a hell of a lot more complicated than compiling a set of mere numbers - especially when the 'numbers' are not even accurately compiled and truly comparable in the first place. Even if you were to ignore his obvious 'bell end' tendencies JP is not all that special a player in my view - you don't have to spend very long on here to realise that I'm far from alone in holding that opinion.

 

The more observant on here could see that long before he left this club that the relationship between JP and at least some of his teammates was problematic - judging from the body language Dan Harding ready to throttle him on more than one occasion.

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But rating the true potential of any player really is a hell of a lot more complicated than compiling a set of mere numbers - especially when the 'numbers' are not even accurately compiled and truly comparable in the first place. Even if you were to ignore his obvious 'bell end' tendencies JP is not all that special a player in my view - you don't have to spend very long on here to realise that I'm far from alone in holding that opinion.

 

The more observant on here could see that long before he left this club that the relationship between JP and at least some of his teammates was problematic - judging from the body language Dan Harding ready to throttle him on more than one occasion.

 

You're right it is. Thats why i'd also use the judgement of a manager of good championship side who has won promotion from the league we are and a premier league manager who has won promotion from the league above the one we are in as a good guide to a players ability, as well as my own first hand knowledge. I cant see either falling over themselves to sign Antonio, can you?

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Simple, undeniable fact is that JP is playing two leagues higher than us and that the two players you mention are either bit part players in the CCC or trawling the Italian league boondocks in Serie C1.

 

Like it or not, Guly's record is way better than either of the two pretenders.

 

 

If you really want my opinion of Guly then it is that he is a moderate player who on occasion can produce rare moments of genuine inspiration - but these moments don't come along nearly often enough to make him worth a starting place even in this division. I have seen others on here state that he is either a "shocking excuse for a footballer" or alternatively at the other extreme of "Premier League" standard - neither view is correct.

 

As for Puncheon - lets see just how long he holds down a place in the Premiership shell we ?

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Antonio - raw, some good performances for us, decent player but would hope we could do better for first 11 (and we have Ox-C, Puncheon, Guly, Forte)

Puncheon - noticed him playing for Mk and very impressed. Lots of ability, probably better in more central role as at MK - clearly fallen out with club and therefore not good for team but as playing in prem not due to lack of ability

Guly - better than both, easily. ~Our best period this season was with him upfront with Lambert. Good control and speed, will always try something different - unfortunately as doesn't play it safe can give away possession, vital when teams park a bus and he can open them up - like Saturday.

 

No need to change my views, you changed yours now you have had the goals per minute show you your error?

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You're right it is. Thats why i'd also use the judgement of a manager of good championship side who has won promotion from the league we are and a premier league manager who has won promotion from the league above the one we are in as a good guide to a players ability, as well as my own first hand knowledge. I cant see either falling over themselves to sign Antonio, can you?

 

He clearly needs a new club - if and when that happens I'm confident he'll do well. You obviously don't agree.

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If you really want my opinion of Guly then it is that he is a moderate player who on occasion can produce rare moments of genuine inspiration - but these moments don't come along nearly often enough to make him worth a starting place even in this division. I have seen others on here state that he is either a "shocking excuse for a footballer" or alternatively at the other extreme of "Premier League" standard - neither view is correct.

 

As for Puncheon - lets see just how long he holds down a place in the Premiership shell we ?

 

yes lets, if you can let us know when Antonio & Waigo make their premier league debut that would also be most welcome.

 

As for Guly, you are right, he falls between the two descriptions you have mentioned, but i'm not unhappy having a player who averages a goal almost every 2 games, over a 46 games season that would make him in the top 5 scorers in league one, not bad for a moderate player who produces a rare moment of inspiration, but not often enough to warrent a start in this divison.

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He clearly needs a new club - if and when that happens I'm confident he'll do well. You obviously don't agree.

 

I neither agree nor disagree, i could see the value of signing him, but i dont think he is the answer to all our prayers like some seem too. Squad player, no more no less, quick, strong but raw, i dont see him bringing anything more to the table than Forte.

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Antonio - raw, some good performances for us, decent player but would hope we could do better for first 11 (and we have Ox-C, Puncheon, Guly, Forte)

Puncheon - noticed him playing for Mk and very impressed. Lots of ability, probably better in more central role as at MK - clearly fallen out with club and therefore not good for team but as playing in prem not due to lack of ability

Guly - better than both, easily. ~Our best period this season was with him upfront with Lambert. Good control and speed, will always try something different - unfortunately as doesn't play it safe can give away possession, vital when teams park a bus and he can open them up - like Saturday.

 

 

You go to games but do you actually watch ?

 

Guly is not really that pacy (but quicker than Lambert I suppose - is that what you mean?) and his first touch can be comical at times - as witnessed by the entire Chapel Stand at the last home game. Do try and pay attention.

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yes lets, if you can let us know when Antonio & Waigo make their premier league debut that would also be most welcome.

 

As for Guly, you are right, he falls between the two descriptions you have mentioned, but i'm not unhappy having a player who averages a goal almost every 2 games, over a 46 games season that would make him in the top 5 scorers in league one, not bad for a moderate player who produces a rare moment of inspiration, but not often enough to warrent a start in this divison.

 

A prime example of the misleading use of statistics - only if and when a player actually plays "46 games season" can you draw the conclusion you have.

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