Jump to content

Anti-semitism campaign


Crab Lungs
 Share

Recommended Posts

Isn't it the Spurs fans who chant this themselves? :o Who is getting offended by this? Maybe I don't get offended as I'd always accepted it as part of their terrace culture? I was aware that it was slang, but I didn't consider it in the offensive bracket such as the "n" and "p" words?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13086148.stm

Edited by Crab Lungs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't imagine it is the Spurs fans who are offended by it as arn't they trying to 'reclaim' it? However, as it is an offensive term for Jews in general and mongs from other clubs just love re-creating hissing noises and singing "Spurs are going to Auschwitz", I'm not suprised they're trying to raise awareness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Yid word is not like racist abuse against one player who is black or Asian. The Yid chants at football are aimed at Tottenham fans regarding the clubs Jewish history, but Spurs fans call themselves the same name, so it isn't really racist abuse. I can understanding banning the hissing noise and Spurs are on their way to Auchwitz chants, which you dont hear anymore anyway but calling a Tottenham fan a Yid is not being racist.

Edited by Turkish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Yid word is not like racist abuse against one player who is black or Asian. The Yid chants at football are aimed at Tottenham fans regarding the clubs Jewish history, but Spurs fans call themselves the same name, so it isn't really racist abuse. I can understanding banning the hissing noise and Spurs are on their way to Auchwitz chants, which you dont hear anymore anyway but calling a Tottenham fan a Yid is not being racist.

 

Just a question.

 

If Spurs fans using the Y word means calling them the Y word is not racist then surelyyoung black lads who use the n word to describe themselves obviates the fact that the n word is racist also?

 

Surely it cannot work both ways?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a question.

 

If Spurs fans using the Y word means calling them the Y word is not racist then surelyyoung black lads who use the n word to describe themselves obviates the fact that the n word is racist also?

 

Surely it cannot work both ways?

 

It's a difficult one and depends how far you take what is considered racist. If a whole section of the crowd was chanting "N....." at a black player then that is obvious and blatent racist abuse. Interestingly enough one of my best mates and his two brothers don't find the N word remotely offensive for that very reason (black people call each other it, not whole sections of the crowd chanting it!), however he doesn't like other words considered by many to be abusive, especially c**n, in fact he finds darkie more offensive than the N word.

 

The thing is the Yid chants aren't aimed at one or two players like the n word ones were in the 80's to single them out as different and be abusive, it would be a different case altogether is Avram Grant for example was subject to loud and aggresive "Yid" chants and gas noises and had skull caps thrown at him from the terraces, as far as he know he isn't. It's a chant aimed at Spurs fans who call themselves it in the same way Pompey call us Scummers, we call them Skates etc. I know it might have religious conotations but as far as most people are concearned in football terms anyway, it's no worse than calling a skate a skate.

Edited by Turkish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly. The embarrassing Freudian slip which he's now corrected and the blackface avatar mean he's perfectly qualified.

 

Sorry Verbal, i know you dont like anyone who doesn't agree with what you say is the law, but its what i think based on my experiences of people i know. If you dont like it then thats up to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Verbal, i know you dont like anyone who doesn't agree with what you say is the law, but its what i think based on my experiences of people i know. If you dont like it then thats up to you.

 

I honestly couldn't give a flying **** what you think. I'm just pointing out that your credentials as an anti-racist are, shall we say, a little thin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Spurs calling themselves Yids or other fans calling them Yids is racist, it's just a name they have adopted. The Auschwitz stuff is so wrong though, I can't believe anyone would be retarded enough to sing stuff like that - I've never heard it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm assuming that you didn't intend the hilarious combination of that question and your avatar.

 

No, i want to know why you think my credentials of being anti-racist are thin. And what does my avatar have to do with anything?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Spurs calling themselves Yids or other fans calling them Yids is racist, it's just a name they have adopted. The Auschwitz stuff is so wrong though, I can't believe anyone would be retarded enough to sing stuff like that - I've never heard it.

 

This is exactly my point. Although when i make it because some of the lounge superstars dont agree with me i get abused, by the same people in the next breath claim to be tolerant. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd imagine that' date=' despite their Jewish history, the majority of Spurs fans who chant 'Yid Army' or whatever probably aren't Jewish? Therefore perhaps they don't realise that it is offensive to the Jewish Tottenham fans?[/quote']

 

Does it offend Jewish Spurs fans though? Was anyone really offended by it until we were told we should be? I certainly wasn't. I knew fans called Tottenham fans Yids and i knew they called themselves it and i knew the Jewish connections but certainly didn't tut tut thinking how disgusting it was. I know loads of Spurs fans who dont find it offensive. Is a problem being created when there isn't one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it offend Jewish Spurs fans though? Was anyone really offended by it until we were told we should be? I certainly wasn't. I knew fans called Tottenham fans Yids and i knew they called themselves it and i knew the Jewish connections but certainly didn't tut tut thinking how disgusting it was. I know loads of Spurs fans who dont find it offensive. Is a problem being created when there isn't one?

 

I think the answer to your question is probably yes, there probably is a problem being created when very few have actually made a complaint. Just playing devil's advocate for argument's sake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although when i make it because some of the lounge superstars dont agree with me i get abused

 

Oh, poor you. I don't know how you put up with all this horrid abuse. Perhaps we could get David Baddiel to make a film to stop people abusing you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the offchance that you are really THAT dim.

 

 

My god how you love to over analyse things. I'll think you'll find that my avatar is actually a character which i enjoy from a comedy programme which i find very funny, but why let that get in the way of an opportunity to be patronising and pious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it offend Jewish Spurs fans though? Was anyone really offended by it until we were told we should be? I certainly wasn't. I knew fans called Tottenham fans Yids and i knew they called themselves it and i knew the Jewish connections but certainly didn't tut tut thinking how disgusting it was. I know loads of Spurs fans who dont find it offensive. Is a problem being created when there isn't one?

 

But you're not a Jewish football fan. Maybe if you were a Jewish football fan, you'd be offended? Someone shouting the word "Yid" may not offend you, but it's not meant to, is it? Whether or not the intention of the chanting is to offend Jewish people is irrelevant - the fact that it does (and it does - here's an article by Baddiel written 9 years ago on the matter http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/david-baddiel-so-you-think-weve-kicked-racism-out-of-english-football-614251.html ) means that maybe something should be done, even if that is raising peoples awareness that some people are offended by the chanting. Just because you believe it is harmless doesn't make it harmless. Here's a rather good example of a group of people who think what they do is harmless, whereas many people agree it is not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you're not a Jewish football fan. Maybe if you were a Jewish football fan, you'd be offended? Someone shouting the word "Yid" may not offend you, but it's not meant to, is it? Whether or not the intention of the chanting is to offend Jewish people is irrelevant - the fact that it does (and it does - here's an article by Baddiel written 9 years ago on the matter http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/david-baddiel-so-you-think-weve-kicked-racism-out-of-english-football-614251.html ) means that maybe something should be done, even if that is raising peoples awareness that some people are offended by the chanting. Just because you believe it is harmless doesn't make it harmless. Here's a rather good example of a group of people who think what they do is harmless, whereas many people agree it is not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Neighbourly_Love,_Freedom,_and_Diversity

 

 

How do you know i'm not?. As i stated above its quite correct that Spurs are on their way to Auchwitz and similar songs be banned and the people that chant them dealt with, but when you have 5,000 Tottenham fans singing "Yid Army" then they cant really complain about songs containing that word being used against them. I know many Tottenham fans who aren't offended by it and i'm certain fans that sing it at them dont mean it as slur on Jewish people and are all Jew hating Nazis, Yid thing isn't meant as a racist slur, if it was Avram Grant would be subject to weekly abusive anti sematic chants it's just that Yid is a word Spurs fans use, it's abosolutely no different, in a football context, to Pompey calling us scummers, us calling them Skates, MIllwall calling West Ham vermin, etc.

Edited by Turkish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im a bit concerned that I may be an ist of some description as I support the saints

can this be construed as something anti religious or discrimination against sinners and the devil worshippers and indeed other religions who do not recognise Saints

 

Also I also thouhgt David Baddiel was a C***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you know i'm not?. As i stated above its quite correct that Spurs are on their way to Auchwitz and similar songs be banned and the people that chant them dealt with, but when you have 5,000 Tottenham fans singing "Yid Army" then they cant really complain about songs containing that word being used against them. I know many Tottenham fans who aren't offended by it and i'm certain fans that sing it at them dont mean it as slur on Jewish people and are all Jew hating Nazis, Yid thing isn't meant as a racist slur, if it was Avram Grant would be subject to weekly abusive anti sematic chants it's just that Yid is a word Spurs fans use, it's abosolutely no different, in a football context, to Pompey calling us scummers, us calling them Skates, MIllwall calling West Ham vermin, etc.

 

What you seem to be struggling with is the idea that a Jewish person has, for many years, written about how they are offended by the use of the word Yid. It is not up to you to decide if he is offended or not. It has nothing to do with you. Baddiel is offended by it and so are others, hence the campaign. This is nothing to do with whether you think it is offensive or if the Tottenham fans themselves think it is offensive. Obviously, Tottenham fans are not exclusively made up of Jewish people so again, they may not understand why some peope (Jewish people) are offended.

 

Your arguement appears to be "we've also used the word Yid and I've never been offended so why should I be now?". That's the arguement of a stupid person. Do you think white people shouting "N*gger" and "P*ki" at people would have offended themselves?

 

Maybe some people don't realise that some Jewish people find the term Yid offensive? Maybe Baddiel and his campaign are trying to highlight that and if some people decide they aren't going to chant Yid anymore, then he's done his job. If people, after hearing about objections wish to carry on, then they will carry on, regardless of any offence being caused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you seem to be struggling with is the idea that a Jewish person has, for many years, written about how they are offended by the use of the word Yid. It is not up to you to decide if he is offended or not. It has nothing to do with you. Baddiel is offended by it and so are others, hence the campaign. This is nothing to do with whether you think it is offensive or if the Tottenham fans themselves think it is offensive. Obviously, Tottenham fans are not exclusively made up of Jewish people so again, they may not understand why some peope (Jewish people) are offended.

 

Your arguement appears to be "we've also used the word Yid and I've never been offended so why should I be now?". That's the arguement of a stupid person. Do you think white people shouting "N*gger" and "P*ki" at people would have offended themselves?

 

Maybe some people don't realise that some Jewish people find the term Yid offensive? Maybe Baddiel and his campaign are trying to highlight that and if some people decide they aren't going to chant Yid anymore, then he's done his job. If people, after hearing about objections wish to carry on, then they will carry on, regardless of any offence being caused.

 

No i'm not struggling to understand that at all. What i am explaining and what you are clearly struggling to understand is that the use of the term Yid, in football terms, is not meant as a racist slight. It's totally different to chants of N*gger or p*ki at players. It's clearly not a racist chant because it's ONLY sung at Tottenham fans and BY Tottenham fans who call themselves this. As i said above if it was a racist slight, how come Avram Grant doesn't get weekly anti sematic chants at every ground he visits?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's one of those terms, I'd suggest, that the vast majority of ordinary football fans associate with someone being a Spurs fan and not any form of religion/race. I'd be surprised if many knew what/who Yids are/were!

 

A girl (Wolves season ticket holder) in one of my classes, when asked about her new boyfriend by one of her friends, replied he was cool even if he was a Yid. Don't think anyone thought that he was Jewish, merely that he was a Spurs fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No i'm not struggling to understand that at all. What i am explaining and what you are clearly struggling to understand is that the use of the term Yid, in football terms, is not meant as a racist slight. It's totally different to chants of N*gger or p*ki at players. It's clearly not a racist chant because it's ONLY sung at Tottenham fans and BY Tottenham fans who call themselves this. As i said above if it was a racist slight, how come Avram Grant doesn't get weekly anti sematic chants at every ground he visits?

 

Ok. I accept now that you are right and know more about what offends Jewish people than Jewish people themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I accept now that you are right and know more about what offends Jewish people than Jewish people themselves.

 

Good lad, you know it makes sense. As i say, it's not a Jewish, racist hate thing, its a Tottenham thing. And if you actually read that David Badel article he says he finds some of the chants funny, but objects to the hissing sounds, so it appears me and Davey boy are singing from the same hymn sheet, or should i say Klezmer sheet.

Edited by Turkish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly couldn't give a flying **** what you think. I'm just pointing out that your credentials as an anti-racist are, shall we say, a little thin.

 

Always on the look out for perceived or subconscious racism is our Verbal. The guardian of political correctness.

 

Most people in my generation would have pint with anyone. The people that I find very tedious are those that cry racism the whole time, often on behalf of other people and genuine racists themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's one of those terms, I'd suggest, that the vast majority of ordinary football fans associate with someone being a Spurs fan and not any form of religion/race. I'd be surprised if many knew what/who Yids are/were!

 

A girl (Wolves season ticket holder) in one of my classes, when asked about her new boyfriend by one of her friends, replied he was cool even if he was a Yid. Don't think anyone thought that he was Jewish, merely that he was a Spurs fan.

 

Exactly mate. If there was a nationwide hatred of Jews that rained down from the terraces then every Jewish player and manager would be subject to it, not just Tottenham fans. I've not heard of any complaints from Avram Grant, who being a Jew and an incredibly sh*t manager you'd think would be a prime target. Likewise when Eyl Berkovic played for us, followinf Saints home and away at that time i never remember one word from any set of fans about him being a Jew. It's not a race thing, its a Spurs thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Growing up in Slough in the 70's I used to get called 'yid' alot,usually in an aggressive context, personally I ****ing hate the term, but I know alot of my mates didn't mind. If noone ever calls me a yid again i'd be happy.

 

Don't be silly, you can't hate the term. Turkish has already declared it a non-offensive term. I think he'd know better than you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most jews find it mildly amusing that a bunch of thick football factory types have embraced the yiddo banner, though they also understand that this is akin to playing with fire given the general political views some of these people hold.

 

There are worse names than yid and there's massive difference between how some fans might use it and how a Chelsea fan might (as a club, Chelsea has struggled with racism for years) - in other words, the context in which Baddiel has heard the terms is probably menacing but is by no means representative. At any rate, with the rise of islamophobia - the stock of your average jew -for better or worse- has gone up. Bizarrely (if disturbingly), its not uncommon to see star of david flags at EDL marches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they had this on news round on the CBBC channel earlier.had a fun 5 mins trying to explain it to my 6 yr old son!

also mentioned about Rangers getting into trouble over their fans singing sectarian songs in the UEFA games this season. was wondering if the same would happen to Spurs if their fans sung about being Yids ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they had this on news round on the CBBC channel earlier.had a fun 5 mins trying to explain it to my 6 yr old son!

also mentioned about Rangers getting into trouble over their fans singing sectarian songs in the UEFA games this season. was wondering if the same would happen to Spurs if their fans sung about being Yids ?

 

Interesting point about the old firm games as well, thats genuine hatred right there, werent the scottish police asking for the matches to be played behind closed doors recently? And I cant honestly think that calling a jewish guy a yid would automatically be seen as an insult, there were popular jewish songs like "my yiddisher mama" recorded by jews, and the language/dialect is called yiddish, it would be a bit like someone insulting me by calling me a "middleaged white C of E"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting point about the old firm games as well, thats genuine hatred right there, werent the scottish police asking for the matches to be played behind closed doors recently? And I cant honestly think that calling a jewish guy a yid would automatically be seen as an insult, there were popular jewish songs like "my yiddisher mama" recorded by jews, and the language/dialect is called yiddish, it would be a bit like someone insulting me by calling me a "middleaged white C of E"

 

Yeah it's a strange one like a lot of these things it tends to depend on who's saying it and in what context. As i've said above,alot of my mates didn't mind being called it, personally I hate anyone calling me a 'yid' as in my experience it tends to be used in a dergatory way. To be honest i've rarely heard the term in the last 10 years and since 'Glee' came on TV apparemtly being a Jew is cool so maybye I should get over it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you absolute tit

 

lol

 

I guessed it wouldn't be long before mini-turkish rolled in.

 

So the conclusion of this thread appears to be that turkish wants to reserve the right to be a petty racist scumbag without being called one. Here are some that were made earlier:

 

"The Blackshirts, praised by The Daily Mail for their 'sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine', would routinely march in the streets of London chanting: 'The Yids, the Yids, we've got to get rid of the Yids."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah it's a strange one like a lot of these things it tends to depend on who's saying it and in what context. As i've said above,alot of my mates didn't mind being called it, personally I hate anyone calling me a 'yid' as in my experience it tends to be used in a dergatory way. To be honest i've rarely heard the term in the last 10 years and since 'Glee' came on TV apparemtly being a Jew is cool so maybye I should get over it.

 

I don't know any Jews, never have and so I cannot weigh any decision based on experience. Nor have I ever encountered anybody being anti-Semitic. Anti-Israel yes, but not anything about the Jewish race.

 

Based solely on that and my own experiences of football fans then the term Yids, in my experience, has been no more than a term for Spurs fans.

 

I really doubt than many football fans who use the term know what Yids means are anti-Semitic themselves. Doubt many, outside parts of London, have even met a Jew!

 

All, of course, IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I accept now that you are right and know more about what offends Jewish people than Jewish people themselves.

 

Even if some Jews find the term "Yid" offensive, it doesn't make a group of people calling themselves Yids racist.

 

Just like if I find the word "n*gger" offensive, it doesn't make rappers who use the term racists.

 

If you call a someone "yid" or "n*gger" in a derogatory way then you are being racist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...