For those who care about club finances etc - annual accounts published

[stevegrant]

Headline figures (rounded):

 

Turnover £14.3m (£800k broadcasting, £10m matchday, £3m corporate)

Operating Loss £6.7m

Overall Loss (including player trading, interest, tax, etc) £7.8m

 

Cash in the bank £2.6m

Debtors £1.9m

 

Short-term creditors £7m (£1.7m trade creditors, £800k tax/NI, accruals/deferred income £3.9m)

Long-term creditors £14.6m (amounts owed to group undertakings £6m, loan from shareholder £8.4m - both stated as being due "in more than five years")

 

Wage bill £10.9m, £12.3m if you include social security and pension costs

Highest-paid director £105,870

 

Transfer fees spent since 30th June 2010 £1.3m, no transfer revenue

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I must be a bit thick as I didn't realise privately owned business have to publically publsh accounts.

What period does this cover Steve?

[Saint_clark]

Interesting - what happened to not believing in debt?

[fanimal]

Not what I would have expected; I think the Club still needs to look at ways of increasing matchday income, especially the unlet boxes. Matchday is not covering salaries, but hard to tell if this is a full years worth to equate properly.

[Weston Saint]

What I find interesting is the loan from the Shareholder! Thought we were supposed to be debt free?

 

Loss about as expected and shows we need to progress through the leagues or face cutbacks or sales.

[StInky]

To 30th June 2010?

[altoniansaints]

seems strange! what with the line for debtors and NC/ML not believing in debt! like FF asked what period does it cover? and do you have a link?

[dubai_phil]

Headline figures (rounded):

 

Turnover £14.3m (£800k broadcasting, £10m matchday, £3m corporate)

Operating Loss £6.7m

Overall Loss (including player trading, interest, tax, etc) £7.8m

 

Cash in the bank £2.6m

Debtors £1.9m

 

Short-term creditors £7m (£1.7m trade creditors, £800k tax/NI, accruals/deferred income £3.9m)

Long-term creditors £14.6m (amounts owed to group undertakings £6m, loan from shareholder £8.4m - both stated as being due "in more than five years")

 

Wage bill £10.9m, £12.3m if you include social security and pension costs

Highest-paid director £105,870

 

Transfer fees spent since 30th June 2010 £1.3m, no transfer revenue

 

But hang on, Solent read out my question in their interview with NC when I asked

 

"We have all seen what has happened up the M27, so as fans, we appreciate the efforts that you and Markus have made, as fans we were wondering whether Markus was lending the club money or if he was converting his funding into equity so that we comply with future Uefa/Fifa regulations on debt. "

 

And NC's reply was that Markus had not lent the club any money

 

hmm

 

More worringly

 

Our losses in the years up to Admin (ex player sales)

 

2007 3.9m

2008 12.5m

2009 7.5m (forecast)

 

So with a new lean mean machine we almost lost as much in these accounts as we did under the Rupert cut back season

 

Equally worring

 

Really MUST get promotion then

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

What I find interesting is the loan from the Shareholder! Thought we were supposed to be debt free?

 

Loss about as expected and shows we need to progress through the leagues or face cutbacks or sales.

 

I expect the shareholder loan to be from Markus Liebherr if the accounts are to the end of June. The payback in 5 years fits in with comment about being a self sufficient Premier League side in 5 years - kind of explains why we need to be quite rigid with the 5 year plan.

[Saint_clark]

So with a new lean mean machine we almost lost as much in these accounts as we did under the Rupert cut back season

 

Equally worring

 

Really MUST get promotion then

 

Don't forget that we aren't receiving as much from TV money and we haven't made ANY money from player sales.

[itchen_dan]

Yeah I wouldnt be too worried about this. We're in League 1 (lower TV revenue), haven't sold players and have spent money on improving the squad.

 

Do not panic!

[sotonjoe]

The accounts are for the first year of the takeover.

[benjii]

The shareholder is another company so these are inter-group loans. They are not necessarily debt in any true sense as the shareholder probably does nothing other than own a football club. The pertinent question is where the money loaned by the shareholder came from. If this was pure equity investment then there will be no external debt.

[Johnny Shearer]

The loan looks worrying. Were there any notes saying whether it was a convertible debenture or not?

 

This way it could be turned into a share holding at the end of the 5 years I guess rather than be repaid.

[thesaint sfc]

If we were not doing well I think Oxo would have gone in the window when 5m figures were floating around.

[labibs]

Where did you get the accounts from Steve? Any chance of a link?

[EBS1980]

Can be downloaded from Companies House website for £1.00

[Chez]

If we were not doing well I think Oxo would have gone in the window when 5m figures were floating around.

 

not at all, if you could get promoted (with his help) AND sell him in the summer for the same or perhaps even more you would be wise to sit tight for 5 months.

[Mowgli]

Not what I would have expected; I think the Club still needs to look at ways of increasing matchday income, especially the unlet boxes. Matchday is not covering salaries, but hard to tell if this is a full years worth to equate properly.

 

I think it's probably safe to say that this has been thought of. Perhaps the fact that we are outperforming all Div 1 sides, pretty much the whole of the Championship and some Premier League sides suggests to them that we are actually over performing on matchday income. We will see a whole host of initiatives launched over the next few years on match day. If people are going to think they have spotted the flaw in the strategy based on a few headline figures, this thread could go downhill fast.

 

There's money in the bank. There 's a long term plan. We're on the brink of good things. Enjoy the ride.

[farawaysaint]

Interesting - what happened to not believing in debt?

 

If we can cover our debts just with cash in the bank it doesn't really matter... Notice short term debtors, this probably just represents our accounts payable i.e purchasing on credit something every business does.

[farawaysaint]

If we can cover our debts just with cash in the bank it doesn't really matter... Notice short term debtors, this probably just represents our accounts payable i.e purchasing on credit something every business does.

 

Never mind, I'm an arse and missed the entire long term creditors line

[Chez]

is the £14.6m in loans the amount Marcus paid for the club or is this loans to fund running costs on top?

[FMPR]

Gonna love readings MLG's thoughts on this!

[Thedelldays]

£800k from broadcasting...compared to the prem...

 

huuuuge

[SaintDan]

I think there are a few key points to look at on our accounts:

 

In January there was talk of AOC going for £10m, should this be the case then that loss would be changed to a profit (granted the whole amount would not be paid upfront but this puts things slightly into perspective).

 

We have £2m in the bank therefore cashflow seems to be managed significantly better than before, perhaps a little too cautious.

 

These accounts are based on the end of last season and our attendances this season have been higher once again therefore Match day revenue will continue to increase.

 

Also if you consider that most football clubs make a loss (Arsenal being one of the few exceptions) we are not doing too badly considering the financial backing that we have.

 

Overal I think one of the big plus points from these accounts is there is a clear indication that there is continuing support from the Liebherr family which is what we want to see as fans:

 

"Going Concern

 

Although the company is reporting a loss for the year and has significant net liabilities, its principle indebtedness at the year end was to its parent company and shareholder. (Liebherr family)

 

The parent company Director (NC) has received assurances from the controlling party that funds will be made available as and when they are required to fund commitments for the foreseeable future. The company financing is inextrinicably linked with that of its parent company. Accordingly the Directors consider it appropriate to prepare the accounts on a going concern basis (in laymans terms they intend to trade for the next 12 months)"

[up and away]

Headline figures (rounded):

 

Turnover £14.3m (£800k broadcasting, £10m matchday, £3m corporate)

Operating Loss £6.7m

Overall Loss (including player trading, interest, tax, etc) £7.8m

 

Cash in the bank £2.6m

Debtors £1.9m

 

Short-term creditors £7m (£1.7m trade creditors, £800k tax/NI, accruals/deferred income £3.9m)

Long-term creditors £14.6m (amounts owed to group undertakings £6m, loan from shareholder £8.4m - both stated as being due "in more than five years")

 

Wage bill £10.9m, £12.3m if you include social security and pension costs

Highest-paid director £105,870

 

Transfer fees spent since 30th June 2010 £1.3m, no transfer revenue

 

This does not surprise me, but still gob smacked to see it in black and white. When you consider the average budget in League 1, really is amazing. And those still wanting to view Saints as good value for money, have totally no idea or more money than sense.

 

Just consider our position without any debt and living within our means, no where near this level although we should be adding to that with a shirt sponsor next year.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Yeah I wouldnt be too worried about this. We're in League 1 (lower TV revenue), haven't sold players and have spent money on improving the squad.

 

Do not panic!

 

Can someone outline what the massive difference in TV Revenue is, which makes promotion to the Championship a must?

[EBS1980]

We owe the Football league just over £250K. Some kind of loan pre ML time? Half is due within 1 year half 1yr+

[ssaints]

That is excactly as you would expect. Poeple honestly don't think the club is running in the black at the moment? Therfore the money injected needs to be shown in some format and this gives no clue how that injection has been made. For all we know there maybe a seperate trust fund setup for the club, from Markus's estate. Realistically we will never know but from player trading and training ground redevelopment I get the feeling that we have nothing to worry about. Finance is Nicola's area and I trust him and am not going to worry about something I can 1) never know the full details and 2) never have any influence on. If Nicola comes and asks me for a fiver I will let you all know.

[sandwichsaint]

We did buy half a new team in that first year (Lambert/Barnard/Fonte/Jaidi?/Harding/Puncheon?/Waigo etc), more than we spent in the current year certainly.

 

Shows how far away we are from breaking even though - lots of games that season and good cup runs, good crowds, and on telly quite a few times, but that income nowhere near covers our costs.

 

Clearly match-day funding on it's own will not sustain us at the level we want to be at, doesn't look like loadsa money for transfers either - guess the core of the current team will be our CCC side too?

[saintjay77]

If we as a privatly owned company dont have to declare this sort of innformation, could this just be the final declaration of the previous company? It would fit in with loans from directors and so on and also operating at a loss would fit too.

 

The statements that we will not be run with debt when Markus took over could still stand true as all debts would have been wiped when he took over and the new books could look completly different.

 

That said we have been spending money on getting players in more at the beginning to re-build the team and also spent on buildings and buses to make the place a nicer place to work n all that.

[OldNick]

we wont have the JPT final income and shop sales this year.

[Chez]

We owe the Football league just over £250K. Some kind of loan pre ML time? Half is due within 1 year half 1yr+

 

 

Championship clubs have to pay a 3% levy on all season and matchday ticket sales to The Football League. I assume League 1 clubs also pay a levy and this might be why we owe the FL £250k.

[JonnyLove]

Deal all. This was Last Years accounts so ended 30th June 2010 not up-to-date. So in a year where we spent a large amount of money and took a while to get attendances, tickets and all sorts of things sorted then this loss is not to bad. Are we in Debt apart from the usual items (Tax and all that) no we are not. Ok there is a load has a load to be repaid but not until at least 5 years time. Not to mention that there is cash in the bank left over in the accounts.

 

Personally who here though we would make a profit last year?

 

This year (End June 2011) I think will look better but probably still make a loss of about £3-5m

 

Me worried. No. And at the moment neither should you be.

[SaintDan]

All private companies must submit accounts to Companies House.

[EBS1980]

Just out of interest does anyone know how our total attendance figures compare YOY with last season?

[Chez]

we wont have the JPT final income and shop sales this year.

 

you can add Lallana's new contract to that as well. Mind you we have got one or two big earners like Thomas off the bill as well.

[benjii]

If we as a privatly owned company dont have to declare this sort of innformation, could this just be the final declaration of the previous company? It would fit in with loans from directors and so on and also operating at a loss would fit too.

 

The statements that we will not be run with debt when Markus took over could still stand true as all debts would have been wiped when he took over and the new books could look completly different.

 

That said we have been spending money on getting players in more at the beginning to re-build the team and also spent on buildings and buses to make the place a nicer place to work n all that.

 

Every single company has to publish its accounts. This "private/public" myth on here is a red herring.

[Chez]

Are we in Debt apart from the usual items (Tax and all that) no we are not. Ok there is a load has a load to be repaid but not until at least 5 years time. Not to mention that there is cash in the bank left over in the accounts.

 

 

debt that has to be paid in at least 5 years time is still debt.

[ludgershallsaint]

This shouldn't really come as a surprise. It has been clear that the club is living beyond the revenues it generates in league 1 and is heavily dependent on it's owner(s) whilst it remains there.

[Thedelldays]

I thought we covered everything with our big crowds...so the experts like romsey saints told us....

[up and away]

Originally Posted by JonnyLove

Are we in Debt apart from the usual items (Tax and all that) no we are not. Ok there is a load has a load to be repaid but not until at least 5 years time. Not to mention that there is cash in the bank left over in the accounts

debt that has to be paid in at least 5 years time is still debt.

 

Don't go getting all excited, this is exactly the same with Abramovich and Chelsea and how they appeared on their accounts. As The Liebherr's own all the club and have loaned the money, what are they going to do? Sell of the club or the ground, something that can be done irrespective of the loan. This loan figure means absolutely nothing, apart from the generosity of our patrons.

[ludgershallsaint]

Every single company has to publish its accounts. This "private/public" myth on here is a red herring.

 

Quite. It is just that public listed companies have a raft of other obligations.

[benjii]

I thought we covered everything with our big crowds...so the experts like romsey saints told us....

 

He was a right genius....

[Pat from Poole]

It does make the decision not to have a sponsor this season look somewhat financially extravagant.

[Chez]

Don't go getting all excited, this is exactly the same with Abramovich and Chelsea and how they appeared on their accounts. As The Liebherr's own all the club and have loaned the money, what are they going to do? Sell of the club or the ground, something that can be done irrespective of the loan. This loan figure means absolutely nothing, apart from the generosity of our patrons.

 

So its not a debt, its a gift that must appear as a loan on the accounts? Any idea why the two seperate sources of the large loans?

[stevegrant]

I thought we covered everything with our big crowds...so the experts like romsey saints told us....

To be fair, the wage bill is almost double what I expect many - myself included - expected.

[Chez]

It does make the decision not to have a sponsor this season look somewhat financially extravagant.

 

perhaps they just forgot, or thought it would appease the ticket tax complaints.

[benjii]

I think our turnover is very encouraging. Much higher than when we were last in the Championship IIRC.

[Pat from Poole]

perhaps they just forgot, or thought it would appease the ticket tax complaints.

 

But the sum made from the Cortese ticket tax is probably a drop in the ocean compared with these losses. As others have alluded to, it can't just be the likes of Lambert and Fonte who were on big money last season. Kelvin Davis' decision to turn down West Ham may now make more sense, for example.