Viking Warrior Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 I was speaking to a friend to day who is a Muslim and I asked why he is having to sell his house. I was shocked. He said it is for ethical reasons. Apparently it is forbidden to take out a martgage where some one else prospers I.e banks building societies etc through extortionate interest rates. He explained he can get a loan type of mortgage through a muslim loan where everyone shares the profit. As the Muslim religion wants to see the premises be succesful First I have heard of this and was suprised he has to sell his house and go into rented property. Anyone else aware of this ethical issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Yeah, totally aware. The islamic faith has a lot of "rules" (if you want to call them that) like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 In a word. Yes. Interst on money is considered immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Some banks offer sharia friendly loans, search on the net plenty of info out there about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Just out of interest, if I wanted a Sharia-friendly loan, would I be applicable being a non-muslim? This is probably a ridiculous question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Just out of interest, if I wanted a Sharia-friendly loan, would I be applicable being a non-muslim? This is probably a ridiculous question... No problem. "Sharia-friendly" just means you have to ask them nicely, rather than steaming into the bank and yelling "lend me some f*cking money you c*nts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Islam is strict on anything to do with money. Earning interest is very illegal in accordance with Islamic law. There are some financial practises like this that we'd regard as completely normal that would be perceived as 'gambling' in Islam, and would therefore be strictly banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Just out of interest, if I wanted a Sharia-friendly loan, would I be applicable being a non-muslim? This is probably a ridiculous question... Thats a good question. Apparently Islamic banking wasnt too badly affected when the Western banks went down, perhaps a better model for the world? Its all a Jewish conspiracy remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Thats a good question. Apparently Islamic banking wasnt too badly affected when the Western banks went down, perhaps a better model for the world? Its all a Jewish conspiracy remember? Haha, you're on the same page as me then, lol. Time to register our interest, so to speak, with... http://www.islamic-bank.com/ ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 I was speaking to a friend to day who is a Muslim and I asked why he is having to sell his house. I was shocked. He said it is for ethical reasons. Apparently it is forbidden to take out a martgage where some one else prospers I.e banks building societies etc through extortionate interest rates. He explained he can get a loan type of mortgage through a muslim loan where everyone shares the profit. As the Muslim religion wants to see the premises be succesful First I have heard of this and was suprised he has to sell his house and go into rented property. Anyone else aware of this ethical issue. Rather than give up his home, why doesnt he simply re-finance with a Muslim mortgage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Did he just convert or just found out about the rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 6 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 6 April, 2011 No gemmel did not just convert but his elders have recently advised him and brought pressure on him that he has to sell his house as it is unethical and immoral mortgage he has. Hes a good guy but it seems strange as he is being forced to sell now. Im must ask him which mosque /madrass has pressured him to do this . as there is no mosque up here. He intimated in time that he may share in a house purchase share schme in due course. He did say that under the muslim rules he can get a muslim loan but all those involved receive equal divis of what is made . including rental of properties. The rationale is for those who loan money is to ensure the property and owners succeed. I have bcome better educated in the world of islam . Some parts I find scary but thats the sunni /shia divide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 How do you become a muslim on paper then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 I guess Muslims get outraged at that Wonga.com advert then, with their 4000+% APR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 they also can get around stamp duty on this premise. If you look on the net how to avoid stamp duty there is a loophole that allows them to not have to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Even the big banks now offer Sharia compliant financial packages. Although of course in teh UK market actually getting one may be the problem. This is a great moral conundrum, Sharia compiant is effectively a profit share, in property you Brits are brainwashed over the years to think of house price gains so you see that and then get asked to share it.... although if you take mortgage interest costs (that never get added in to house price gains mentality) it isn't a bad deal Amusingly, in the housing boom down here, Islamic institutions offered Brit style Mortgages (as did many offer Sahria style) It comes down again to the edict from the man who shouts from the Minaret on a Fridaya sto how he interprets things, but as others have said, in this instance, money lending interest is haram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 I was speaking to a friend to day who is a Muslim and I asked why he is having to sell his house. I was shocked. He said it is for ethical reasons. First I have heard of this and was suprised he has to sell his house and go into rented property. So, it's unethical for a bank to profit from a house purchase but ethical for a landlord to profit from rent payments? Notwithstanding that the Landlord has probably bought the house using a mortgage in the first place.... Not the most logical religious policy in the world I would venture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 We have a couple of Muslim neighbours, they live on the Sunni side of the street. fwiw, i hate banks and agree that moneylending is immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 If he's renting a property, he's probably paying the landlord's mortgage What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 So, it's unethical for a bank to profit from a house purchase but ethical for a landlord to profit from rent payments? Notwithstanding that the Landlord has probably bought the house using a mortgage in the first place.... Not the most logical religious policy in the world I would venture... Making a profit is fine. The idea of any citizen born of the Souq NOT making a profit - lol. In fact a Sharia loan is about sharing any profit It is the earning or charging of INTEREST that is the issue. A bank in Qatar recently got into all kinds of pooh over this. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 they also can get around stamp duty on this premise. If you look on the net how to avoid stamp duty there is a loophole that allows them to not have to pay it. lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Sukuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 Making a profit is fine. The idea of any citizen born of the Souq NOT making a profit - lol. In fact a Sharia loan is about sharing any profit It is the earning or charging of INTEREST that is the issue. A bank in Qatar recently got into all kinds of pooh over this. HTH All religions have rules that are adhered to more or less strictly. As you say it is interest that breaks strict Muslim interpretation. We used to have similar objections in Christianity. ...look at the word 'usury' and see its usage in Shakespeare for example. Or for that matter see expulsion of the money lenders in the New Testament. But we have gradually overcome our qualms! I imagine there must be some very strict Christian sects that still have such rules though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 Maybe I'm being thick (usually am), but why is it seen as morally wrong to earn money from interest payments? Its just payment for providing a service in effect, same as any other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 Maybe I'm being thick (usually am), but why is it seen as morally wrong to earn money from interest payments? Its just payment for providing a service in effect, same as any other? It's an historical anachronism. Islam isn't alone in frowning on interest. Christianity does it too. Check on Deuteronomy 23:19 for example: Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest. Judaism only allowed it for Israelites lending to non-Israelites, etc, etc. Christians, Muslims, Jews, and pretty much everyone else in the modern world deals with, profits and loses from interest every day of the week. The idea that Muslims alone continue to live in a way prescribed centuries ago is preposterous. VW's friend has obviously got a bad dose of fundamentalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 they also can get around stamp duty on this premise. If you look on the net how to avoid stamp duty there is a loophole that allows them to not have to pay it. Link please. I'd love to know if this is true or an urban myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 It's an historical anachronism. Islam isn't alone in frowning on interest. Christianity does it too. Check on Deuteronomy 23:19 for example: Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest. Judaism only allowed it for Israelites lending to non-Israelites, etc, etc. Christians, Muslims, Jews, and pretty much everyone else in the modern world deals with, profits and loses from interest every day of the week. The idea that Muslims alone continue to live in a way prescribed centuries ago is preposterous. VW's friend has obviously got a bad dose of fundamentalism. And so finally there we have it, the news that everyone in Britain has really waited for... Every single Banker on the planet will truly be damned for eternity and will go to hell. Serves the feckers right Oh happy days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 7 April, 2011 Share Posted 7 April, 2011 Usury is the term, I thought this was also no go in Jewish communities. Never understood how it could be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 26 April, 2011 Share Posted 26 April, 2011 Usury is the term, I thought this was also no go in Jewish communities. Never understood how it could be bad. Surely it's the opposite in Jewish faith in that they CAN be usurers, but only to non-Jews, hence all the historical characters: Shylock, The Jew of Malta, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 26 April, 2011 Share Posted 26 April, 2011 Sorry, I was just reading this thread because Boj infracted me on it recently. Seems to have let other humourous comments pass though. How odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 26 April, 2011 Share Posted 26 April, 2011 It's an historical anachronism. Islam isn't alone in frowning on interest. Christianity does it too. Check on Deuteronomy 23:19 for example: Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest. Judaism only allowed it for Israelites lending to non-Israelites, etc, etc. Christians, Muslims, Jews, and pretty much everyone else in the modern world deals with, profits and loses from interest every day of the week. The idea that Muslims alone continue to live in a way prescribed centuries ago is preposterous. VW's friend has obviously got a bad dose of fundamentalism. Hardly surprising seeing as Islam and Christianity are based on the same roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now