LGTL Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's nice to know we can still manage to give Pakistan £650million for "teacher training and the building of schools". This coming from a government who have cut the majority of UK PGCE bursaries to £0, and pretty much cancelled the school building project, all because we are "broke". Hmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 In my view, it is likely a sweetener to keep that nation's police, military and intelligence forces onside pertaining to our current operations in Afghanistan. Also, if we and the other allied forces bolster the educational infrastructure and start resolving some long-standing international sores such as the creation of a Palestinian state and turning down the Neo Con volume on Israel a bit (by the way, I support Israel's right to exist), we might actually have less new extremists to fight in future. I'm prepared to criticise the Coalition on some things - not least this half-baked NHS "reform" which the Cabinet should have shot down - but I can see the possible logic here of what they may be trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's not surprising. It was announced that aid would be ringfenced for "fragile states" and cut for others. Pakistan is considered a "fragile state" and it is a sensible way of trying to ensure some stability in an unstable country with alleged terrorist links - which is in the long term interests of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's nice to know we can still manage to give Pakistan £650million for "teacher training and the building of schools". This coming from a government who have cut the majority of UK PGCE bursaries to £0, and pretty much cancelled the school building project, all because we are "broke". Hmm.... If we (and many others) don't, the Saudis will, and have. 7/7 was one of the outcomes of Saudi long-term funding of extremist madrassas, which have virtually replaced a collapsed public education system in many parts of Pakistan. So even in terms of self-interest it seems a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 If we (and many others) don't, the Saudis will, and have. 7/7 was one of the outcomes of Saudi long-term funding of extremist madrassas, which have virtually replaced a collapsed public education system in many parts of Pakistan. So even in terms of self-interest it seems a good investment. But the question remains pertinent. Have the Saudis becoming so established with the madrassas system in parts of Pakistan that no amount of "Western" money will manage to loosen the noose? Perhaps would should look at investing it in areas yet to be totally corrupted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 But the question remains pertinent. Have the Saudis becoming so established with the madrassas system in parts of Pakistan that no amount of "Western" money will manage to loosen the noose? Perhaps would should look at investing it in areas yet to be totally corrupted? On the other hand, if Pakistan is 'totally corrupted' (I know you are not saying they are, I'm just raising a point), why should we invest there at all? Rather the money go in resources and supplies to our troops out there? Failing that put it into our own education system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Blimey, this looks like a thread filled with thoughtful and well considered and educational posts. Well done guys, I am learning, though can't contribute due to lack of knowledge. From personal experience, making friends with your perceived enemy works better than pursuing the enmity over years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Watch Charlie Wilson's War, simples. As long as it's proper education. You know, how to use facebook, text proper and of course fill in benefit forms before going to uni to do a course that nobody wants to employ you with oops sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's an absolute disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 But the question remains pertinent. Have the Saudis becoming so established with the madrassas system in parts of Pakistan that no amount of "Western" money will manage to loosen the noose? Perhaps would should look at investing it in areas yet to be totally corrupted? I've been to one place in particular where sustained investment in public education has made a big difference. In the mountains of Northern Pakistan, around the (very liberal) Hunza Valley, Saudi inroads have been rolled back by Ismaili funding of schooling. They started with girls only - but found that the suicide rate among the girls shot up, partly at least because after being so well educated they were still having to marry the same sullenly stupid and socially conservative men. So the Aga Khan people started a more universal education programme, and the effects on the region are marked. It's the one place in that part of the world where it's relatively safe to travel, whether as a local or a foreigner - and the impact on the region's culture is pretty obvious. The tragedy is that for all its natural and cultural beauty, no one seems to dare to there. On the other hand, I can tell you some pretty depressing stories of the awful consequences when Arab money rolls in - as it is increasingly now even in the large cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's an absolute disgrace. Really? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holepuncture Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Really? Why? that £650 million may have helped keep tuition fees at a far more reasonable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Really? Why? Because we are as nation in debt with a budget deficit and under these circumstances chairity should begin at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 that £650 million may have helped keep tuition fees at a far more reasonable level. I'd rather the general level of education in developing countries was improved tbh. This is why we need to cancel the 3rd world debt, so we don't have to keep shelling out on foreign aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 On the other hand, I can tell you some pretty depressing stories of the awful consequences when Arab money rolls in - as it is increasingly now even in the large cities. I've seen it for myself in situ and when those who have been "educated" arrive on these shores and expect British Pakistani women to be subservient. I was thinking on the large cities regarding "our" investment. There may still be hope for them, or at least for the poor inhabitants of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Because we are as nation in debt with a budget deficit and under these circumstances chairity should begin at home. I agree to an extent, but this figure pales in comparison to our yearly spending on our already very good education service. Having a better education service will help Pakistan to grow as a country, and as somebody said earlier on, it'll probably help ease tensions with our military presence in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 I agree to an extent, but this figure pales in comparison to our yearly spending on our already very good education service. Having a better education service will help Pakistan to grow as a country, and as somebody said earlier on, it'll probably help ease tensions with our military presence in the area. I couldn't give a f/ck about Pakistan and whether they have schools. It's looking after the people in this country that should be our concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 I've seen it for myself in situ and when those who have been "educated" arrive on these shores and expect British Pakistani women to be subservient. I was thinking on the large cities regarding "our" investment. There may still be hope for them, or at least for the poor inhabitants of them. I travelled through the Swat Valley shortly before it was completely overrun by the Pakistani Taliban. Once they'd seized total control, the FIRST thing they did systematically was burn all the girls' schools. The boys' schools - many of them run as English schools - were turned overnight into madrassas. The money to run them came, of course, from Arab sources. However, the big point to make with all this, I think, is that these incursions by Arabs only began when Zia came to power in the late 70s. What has happened is not irreversible; far from it. But to let the medieval peninsula Arab potentates and the Taliban rampage through the Pakistan education system unchecked would be a disaster for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 I couldn't give a f/ck about Pakistan and whether they have schools. That's the spirit... This is a country of almost 190,000,000 people, their population is growing very quickly. They're going to be a huge nation within the next 50 years. They spend just 2.9% of their GDP on education. We have UK and US troops just over the border from them in Afghanistan, and US drones are bombing Pakistan every day to try and curb the insurgency from terrorist groups that have moved into Pakistan from Afghanistan. I think the least we can do is help them fund their education system, we'll do well to have them as a close ally in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 I'd rather the general level of education in developing countries was improved tbh. This is why we need to cancel the 3rd world debt, so we don't have to keep shelling out on foreign aid. Can we cancel our deby now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Can we cancel our deby now? We're already a first-world nation. It's the countries that can't afford to feed their own people but are still paying through the nose in debt repayments that should have the slate wiped clean, for the sake of the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 We're already a first-world nation. It's the countries that can't afford to feed their own people but are still paying through the nose in debt repayments that should have the slate wiped clean, for the sake of the human race. Is there no subject that you're not an expert on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Is there no subject that you're not an expert on? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 We're already a first-world nation. It's the countries that can't afford to feed their own people but are still paying through the nose in debt repayments that should have the slate wiped clean, for the sake of the human race. Will we be in fiftyyears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Is there no subject that you're not an expert on? He's entitled to his opinion. And what's nice is that it is his opinion and not just something he got from Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Will we be in fiftyyears? No, I imagine in 50 years time we will be a third world country with people starving and millions of mothers dying during child birth. Obesity will be a luxury for the rich and most us will die from cholera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 He's entitled to his opinion. And what's nice is that it is his opinion and not just something he got from Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It's wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels. Firstly, we have our own problems and huge deficit problems here. That should be prioritised. On top of this, we should not be paying any country £650m just to "keep them onside". That's terrible, that's blackmail. Thirdly, where are there muslim brothers in all this? I'd like to know whether any of the filthy-rich Sheikhs and oil-rich nations are helping their fellow brothers and sisters, considering the continuous claim that they should all stick together. Fourthly, I don't understand why anyone else should make up the shortfall of a country that commits just 2.9% on education. Surely, that is their problem to sort out and remember - they don't want us meddling in their affairs anyway. Oh, unless we're dolling out free money of course. It's a gesture that will never be gratefully received or acknowledged and will undoubtedly only end up in the hands of the wrong people who will trickle small amounts down anyway. WHATEVER we do for these countries in the none too distant future, we will never be trusted or seem as allies; only the 'enemy' of Islam. I say give them what they want; complete withdrawal of military, monetary help and other support and let them do it themselves. If they really are that incapable then we'll soon know if we're genuinely needed or not... I'm absolutely sure I will probably be considered a racist on here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Because we are as nation in debt with a budget deficit and under these circumstances chairity should begin at home. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 That's the spirit... This is a country of almost 190,000,000 people, their population is growing very quickly. They're going to be a huge nation within the next 50 years. They spend just 2.9% of their GDP on education. We have UK and US troops just over the border from them in Afghanistan, and US drones are bombing Pakistan every day to try and curb the insurgency from terrorist groups that have moved into Pakistan from Afghanistan. I think the least we can do is help them fund their education system, we'll do well to have them as a close ally in the future. why do we have to help them? why not usa or the aussies! Answer me this, if we were in the **** would they bail us out like this? Oh wait, we are in the ****! As a student who will no doubt graduate and want a job, you may be in for a shock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 5 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 April, 2011 According to GTTR annual statistics, 26500 people were placed on a teacher training course last year in this country. We'll says that the same amount have got a place this year, although I know it'll be lower as their are fewer places. Each of those 26500 people would have been getting an average bursary of about £5000, which they have now totally removed from this September. That has saved the governement about £132million, still some £518million less then they are giving Pakistan for their own teacher training. As a prospective teacher who'll be training full time from September for absolutely nothing, I find it truely baffling. I've paid my taxes and i'm entitled to nothing, yet i'll be safe in the knowledge someone in Pakistan gets it scot free. I'm not totally against foreign aid, but given the circumstances, and how much Michael Gove is screwing the teaching profession over, I find it disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 why do we have to help them? why not usa or the aussies! Answer me this, if we were in the **** would they bail us out like this? Oh wait, we are in the ****! As a student who will no doubt graduate and want a job, you may be in for a shock! We have to help them because we use to OWN THEM and it is mainly down to us and the way we withdrew from the sub-continent that Pakistan is in a ****ty state anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 According to GTTR annual statistics, 26500 people were placed on a teacher training course last year in this country. We'll says that the same amount have got a place this year, although I know it'll be lower as their are fewer places. Each of those 26500 people would have been getting an average bursary of about £5000, which they have now totally removed from this September. That has saved the governement about £132million, still some £518million less then they are giving Pakistan for their own teacher training. As a prospective teacher who'll be training full time from September for absolutely nothing, I find it truely baffling. I've paid my taxes and i'm entitled to nothing, yet i'll be safe in the knowledge someone in Pakistan gets it scot free. I'm not totally against foreign aid, but given the circumstances, and how much Michael Gove is screwing the teaching profession over, I find it disgraceful. Trust me, it's all part of Gove's plan to turn all schools into academies sponsored by multi-nationals with ex-servicemen/women teachers who have been through the fast track GTP scheme. The bloke hasn't a clue what he's doing. Politics must be the only profession where you don't have to know ANYTHING about the subject to be 'in charge' of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 5 April, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Trust me, it's all part of Gove's plan to turn all schools into academies sponsored by multi-nationals with ex-servicemen/women teachers who have been through the fast track GTP scheme. The bloke hasn't a clue what he's doing. Politics must be the only profession where you don't have to know ANYTHING about the subject to be 'in charge' of it. True, I can't wait for an ex Sergeant Major to be told to ***** off by some spotty 14 year old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Trust me, it's all part of Gove's plan to turn all schools into academies sponsored by multi-nationals with ex-servicemen/women teachers who have been through the fast track GTP scheme. The bloke hasn't a clue what he's doing. Politics must be the only profession where you don't have to know ANYTHING about the subject to be 'in charge' of it. I notice that Gove has said that IfL members with QTLS, working in FE, can now work in schools and as their governing body is the IfL they will not have to be members of the GTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 We have to help them because we use to OWN THEM and it is mainly down to us and the way we withdrew from the sub-continent that Pakistan is in a ****ty state anyway. It was in a ****ty state anyway and had been for centuries. I think I'm correct in saying that we don't have any obligation to continue to fund and help a country that has shown time and time again that it isn't even willing to help itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 It was in a ****ty state anyway and had been for centuries. I think I'm correct in saying that we don't have any obligation to continue to fund and help a country that has shown time and time again that it isn't even willing to help itself. India along with China used to be the richest country in the world before us Europeans came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 why do we have to help them? why not usa or the aussies! Answer me this, if we were in the **** would they bail us out like this? Oh wait, we are in the ****! As a student who will no doubt graduate and want a job, you may be in for a shock! Because we have links to the country that the USA and Australia do not. We are nowhere near as in the sh!t as they are, their population is exploding and they don't have the resources to cope with it. Despite what the coalition says, we're not so badly off that we can't send foreign aid to our allies. I think as one of the world's biggest economies we should be helping other nations to develop. As I said before, they're going to be a colossal force in the future and with a large labour force it pays to help them out now so they can reciprocate that gift in years to come. Oh, and after I graduate i'm moving to Canada anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 April, 2011 Share Posted 5 April, 2011 Will we be in fiftyyears? Of course we will, don't be stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Oh, and we are responsible for most of the ills of the world, apparently. This Government is turning into a bigger joke than the previous one. Cameron is turning into a massive Obama-scale disappointment, even eclipsing Bliar. You all wait until Huhne is deputy PM, then its fall from grace will be complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Oh, and we are responsible for most of the ills of the world, apparently. This Government is turning into a bigger joke than the previous one. Cameron is turning into a massive Obama-scale disappointment, even eclipsing Bliar. You all wait until Huhne is deputy PM, then its fall from grace will be complete. That did make me laugh this morning - Dune's bedroom pin-up Cameron saying the world is all Britain's fault. Mea culpa writ stupid. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 That did make me laugh this morning - Dune's bedroom pin-up Cameron saying the world is all Britain's fault. Mea culpa writ stupid. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html That's all we need, a Conservative leader becoming an apologist ***t. FFS, it was bad enough Bliar and Brown parading their insincerity in public, in the vain hope of clinging onto some sort of international recognition through hand wringing and mock empathy, but this takes the biscuit. Man up FFS Cameron. You keep banging on about looking to the future, so leave the past behind and do what you say you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 That did make me laugh this morning - Dune's bedroom pin-up Cameron saying the world is all Britain's fault. Mea culpa writ stupid. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html Did you enjoy the game last night? What did you think of Ryan Dicksons performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Oh, and after I graduate i'm moving to Canada anyway Fecking tax dodger! Make sure they've got your forwarding address so that you can continue to pay off your loans :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Of course we will, don't be stupid. We are burdened with debt. We are in the process of handing over our manufacturing base to China, India etc. We are increasingly more reliant on our service and our technological industries. Do you really not think these countries will notb start sourcing their own technologies soon or are they too stupid like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 (edited) We are burdened with debt. We are in the process of handing over our manufacturing base to China, India etc. We are increasingly more reliant on our service and our technological industries. Do you really not think these countries will notb start sourcing their own technologies soon or are they too stupid like me. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/ We build more now than ever, it's just not in "traditional" industries and yes the number of staff has gone down significantly. Edited 6 April, 2011 by GenevaSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Oh, and we are responsible for most of the ills of the world, apparently. This Government is turning into a bigger joke than the previous one. Cameron is turning into a massive Obama-scale disappointment, even eclipsing Bliar. You all wait until Huhne is deputy PM, then its fall from grace will be complete. Kerchinng! The penny drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 April, 2011 Share Posted 6 April, 2011 Unlike most on here, I don't know enough about the background and motivation behind this 'donation' to Pakistan. I will therefore have to abstain from this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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