Ince

[Give it to Ron]

Sacked by Notts County.....or mutual consent ;-)

Seems he isn't the Guv after all.

[LGTL]

Absolute idiot, hope he never gets another job.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Another one up there with the likes of Darren Ferguson; an obscenely inflated value of his own worth.

[Pedro]

I think we witnessed yesterday how far MKD have come since he went.

 

Stan Collymore on 5 live was tonight talking about black/mixed race managers and that there only 2 in the leagues, now there's one. Is it racist or just there are simply no good ones around.

 

He also said that he has joined (I think) 28 football forums but didn't catch why because I had to switch off. Wonder if he's on here.

[SuperMikey]

Lets face it - he's not a good manager. He'd do a good job for a L2 team but he's got too big an ego to go down to that level again. Reckon he'll end up coaching for somewhere like Man Utd or maybe even England.

[Turkish]

I think we witnessed yesterday how far MKD have come since he went.

 

Stan Collymore on 5 live was tonight talking about black/mixed race managers and that there only 2 in the leagues, now there's one. Is it racist or just there are simply no good ones around.

 

He also said that he has joined (I think) 28 football forums but didn't catch why because I had to switch off. Wonder if he's on here.

 

I am sure there are good ones around. Ruud Guillt and Jean Tigana have done okay and managed top flight English clubs, but the ones in the league at the moment are doing fantastically badly. Chris Powell has managed to take play off placed Charlton into midtable mediority and just won their first match in 10 games. Ince was given his chance in top flight with Blackburn and failed. He has been fantastically sh*t everywhere he has gone since then. The fact that Blackburn gave him a chance is compelling evidence that black managers do get a chance, in fact its arguable that there were better white managers in the championship and league one who had a better CV for the Blackburn job than Ince. A lot on here wont like this but all this "they need more help" is just more PC bol*ocks. They dont need help and it's patronising to say they do. If black ex players want to become managers then they can do so and Ince is proof that you can get a top flight job with an average managerial CV.

[Thedelldays]

caught alan green on 5live going all 'anti-racist' about it......

[Turkish]

caught alan green on 5live going all 'anti-racist' about it......

 

What was he going on about? All patronising, we need to help them, we need to encourage black managers etc, How about lets forget about their colour and just try and develop a load of decent English managers who can manage well in the top flight in our leagues, the champions league and international level, regardless of if they are Black, White, Asian or Chinese origin?

[Thedelldays]

what about the gay managers...what about the bi-sexual managers...what about the indian managers...ffs

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

what about the gay managers...what about the bi-sexual managers...what about the indian managers...ffs

 

What about female managers then Jamie? Surely tactical nous isn't solely the realm of males?

[dubai_phil]

Someone once said to me

 

You can teach managers to manage

 

But you cannot teach Leaders to inspire.

 

Seems to me watching him from afar that he has never really understood that the people he works with need Leadership rather than "being told how he did things"

 

Compare Ince to LM? No contest LM had many faults but he got players to play for him, I just think he w(Ince) as too much in the Hoddle (no offence Dalek) category hwere he was always trying to make numpties into versions of him with "Oh FFS let me show you what I mean"

 

Simply IMHO he was a Rupert who knew it all.

 

Jeez, one or two on here wanted him at different gaps in our timeline to this moment. Phew.

 

Incey - go away and reflect on WHY you keep getting the sack. (oops sorry mutual agreements)

 

Then you might become a good manager.

[Lets B Avenue]

Kamara has probably set broadcast journalists back the same.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

He wasn't sacked because he's black, he's just ****.

 

Are there many black managers not getting a chance? Hughton was harshlybsacked but he got a chance and will get another.

 

People must remember that chris kamara set black managers back 30 years.

 

How could Kamara set black managers back? Because he was useless or because he's black? The point being, with your statement, if there is no racism then he could not possibly have set back black managers, just useless ones?

 

I appreciate you are not being racist but I hope you get my drift because if, as Turkish says it shouldn't matter, then Kamara's failure as a manager should have had absolutely no effect on other black managers. The thing is, again as pointed out, many black managers have not been that good. That was because they lacked the nous and nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of their skin.

 

Does this point out that in football hierarchy (Managing Directors, owners etc), like society, there is an inherent and latent racist undercurrent?

[Turkish]

How could Kamara set black managers back? Because he was useless or because he's black? The point being, with your statement, if there is no racism then he could not possibly have set back black managers, just useless ones?

 

I appreciate you are not being racist but I hope you get my drift because if, as Turkish says it shouldn't matter, then Kamara's failure as a manager should have had absolutely no effect on other black managers. The thing is, again as pointed out, many black managers have not been that good. That was because they lacked the nous and nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of their skin.

 

Does this point out that in football hierarchy (Managing Directors, owners etc), like society, there is an inherent and latent racist undercurrent?

 

Personally i find the whole "we need to help them" agenda quite patronising. Firstly its making skin colour and race and issue just by saying that black managers need help. I certainly didn't sit there one day and think "f*ck me, there are only two black managers in the whole of English football, why dont the FA do something about it?" It's the FA and ironically Paul Ince who have been the most vocal about it all who are making an issue of it. In Inces case he has nothing to moan about, he got his chance at Blackburn and was a spectular faliure, in fact when he got the job i dont think he even had a UEFA coaching badge which is a requirement to manager in England so was given additional assistance to buck the system. he should spend less time gobbing off and more time trying to become a better manager. But it is proof that if a manager is considered good enough he'll get the chance.

 

 

Secondly, why do they need help? Why shold the process be made easier or quicker depending on what skin colour you are? Why should certain people be cherry picked? I know the FA will feel like they need their quota of non white managers but they should be encouraging all top English players that would make decent managers to consider it when their playing days are over and concentrating on producing decent English managers for the future, not decent black or white managers.

[rallyboy]

I went off him when he bottled a penalty in Euro 96 and put Southgate on the spot.

Venables went looking for leaders and Ince sat on the ground with his collar up hoping the boss couldn't see him.

The guvnor?

I don't think so.

 

And while we are talking other managers, it was funny to see -

a. Peterborough's keeper letting in that equaliser.

b. Ferguson being forced to talk about it.

 

No doubt when he becomes the superstar manager that he thinks he already is, he'll be able to tell the media to stick their interviews where the sun don't shine, meanwhile he has to stand there and squirm.

 

And another thing!

Blackpool - 'premier league, you're having a larf'...Holloway might have to accept that song as fair comment quite soon unless he can get that great asset Puncheon playing.

I see he dropped him yesterday in an attempt to stop the disastrous run that has coincided with his arrival, didn't work.

If we can get out of this division we might have a few old friends playing against us next season.

[Rory]

Frank Rijkaard is a Champions League winner.

[Sour Mash]

How could Kamara set black managers back? Because he was useless or because he's black? The point being, with your statement, if there is no racism then he could not possibly have set back black managers, just useless ones?

 

I appreciate you are not being racist but I hope you get my drift because if, as Turkish says it shouldn't matter, then Kamara's failure as a manager should have had absolutely no effect on other black managers. The thing is, again as pointed out, many black managers have not been that good. That was because they lacked the nous and nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of their skin.

 

Does this point out that in football hierarchy (Managing Directors, owners etc), like society, there is an inherent and latent racist undercurrent?

 

How about the fact that white, anglo-saxons are under-represented in those playing for Premier League teams, surely, like society, there is an inherent and latent racist undercurrent?

[angelman]

It is strange that there aren't more black managers considering the number of players that are black. The wife beating dogger can bang on about racism all he likes, but it just reinforces the image of the chippy little ***** that he is. I can't believe that it has anything to do with not being given the opportunity as there are just too many players to all have been turned down. That is unless Chairmen look at the leadership skills of African leaders and draw some sort of parallel but I can't imagine that that is the case.

 

Question is, do these black players actually try for management once they hang up their boots? Take the wife beating dogger for example - has he tried management or has he just gone for the media instead?

 

As for the PL, I do think the situation regarding managers is a little racist. If you are English, you seem to have very little chance of managing a decent side. 6 are English (if you include McCarthy as English rather than Irish), 6 Jocks, 2 Frogs, 2 Eyties, 2 Welsh, a Spaniard and an Israeli.

[sfc1971]

Ince is one of the most anti football managers I have ever seen at SMS awful football imo.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Personally i find the whole "we need to help them" agenda quite patronising. Firstly its making skin colour and race and issue just by saying that black managers need help. I certainly didn't sit there one day and think "f*ck me, there are only two black managers in the whole of English football, why dont the FA do something about it?" It's the FA and ironically Paul Ince who have been the most vocal about it all who are making an issue of it. In Inces case he has nothing to moan about, he got his chance at Blackburn and was a spectular faliure, in fact when he got the job i dont think he even had a UEFA coaching badge which is a requirement to manager in England so was given additional assistance to buck the system. he should spend less time gobbing off and more time trying to become a better manager. But it is proof that if a manager is considered good enough he'll get the chance.

 

 

Secondly, why do they need help? Why shold the process be made easier or quicker depending on what skin colour you are? Why should certain people be cherry picked? I know the FA will feel like they need their quota of non white managers but they should be encouraging all top English players that would make decent managers to consider it when their playing days are over and concentrating on producing decent English managers for the future, not decent black or white managers.

 

A perfectly reasonable comment. We do have many black players who are very good but they mostly don't make the jump to management, that's not because of their colour but there has to be some reason?

[Turkish]

A perfectly reasonable comment. We do have many black players who are very good but they mostly don't make the jump to management, that's not because of their colour but there has to be some reason?

 

For whatever reason is seems high profile English black players have failed badly as managers. Ince & John Barnes two stand out names. I dont know the reason why but certainly 20 years ago when i was watching football as a teenager there were only ever one or two black players per side, in the modern game the proportion is much higher. Look at the England squad for 96 Euros and there are only 3 black players, Sol Campbell is still playing, Ince is a manager (sort of) and Les Ferdinand has gone into media work, based on that ratio 50% of of cream of English players from the mid 90's (who have retired) are now in management, this is actually very high proportion looking at it this way. The England squad to face Ghana & Wales had 7 black players in it. I guess that although the proportion of black players playing now is higher, the ones who are retiring and of management age is still relatively low.

Edited 4 April, 2011 by Turkish

[Gemmel]

I reckon Ince will be the next pompey manager.

Cloterrill will go in the summer, when Lawerence is sold to us and ince to replace him.

[hamster]

I would have loved to see Chicken George go into management.

 

On so many levels ie 'Chicken George backs Kick Racism Out of the Game campaign'

[ecuk268]

Countless white managers have been rubbish as well. Don't think that colour comes into it.

 

I think that they will become more common - it just takes time. Back in the 70's, coloured players were a rarity, now they're numerous and some of them will move into management.

 

Keith Alexander looked to have the makings of a good manager before his untimely death.

[Turkish]

Countless white managers have been rubbish as well. Don't think that colour comes into it.

 

I think that they will become more common - it just takes time. Back in the 70's, coloured players were a rarity, now they're numerous and some of them will move into management.

 

Keith Alexander looked to have the makings of a good manager before his untimely death.

 

Indeed, going back to that Euro 96 squad, Pearce, Adams, Southgate, Platt & Shearer have all had a go at management and non of them have exactly covered themselves in glory. I just feel that rather than the FA saying we need more black managers and making it an issue they should concentrate on just producing good english managers regardless of their colour, the average fans doesn't give a f*ck if a manager is black or white as long as they are good.

[SuperMikey]

Countless white managers have been rubbish as well. Don't think that colour comes into it.

 

I think that they will become more common - it just takes time. Back in the 70's, coloured players were a rarity, now they're numerous and some of them will move into management.

 

Keith Alexander looked to have the makings of a good manager before his untimely death.

 

This.

[jawillwill]

Phil Brown did a pretty good job with Hull.