Operation School Run

[swannymere]

I find a tyre valve tool is the best option.

[hamster]

I find tolerance the best option. Anyone looking for an excuse to be angry will find it, take dune got example. No seriously, take him.

[Barney Trubble]

@ Barney Trubble

 

No they can't get up earlier. They already get up at 5.30 to do the domestic stuff, feed the babies, get the babies to nursery at 7.30 so they can get to work at 8 or 8.30 (depending on which daughter we're talking about). They then work until 6 / 6.30, collect the babies, go to the shops if necessary and get home to cook the family meal at around 7 / 7.30 - in time to get the babies into bed.

 

Nurseries arem't usually as close at hand as schools (certainly not within walking distance) and also they have limited hours (i.e. you've got to collect your child by 7.00 pm).

 

They simply don't have enough hours in the day to manage without driving the babies to nursery - the alternative would be to work their hours over 5 days but that would cost them each another £60 per week in nursery fees and mean they would miss out on their one day a week they devote solely to their small children.

 

I'm sure you probably do, but just for the record - do you also organise the laundry, shopping, cooking and cleaning on top of your 50 hour week and walking your children to and from school?

 

I guess then it's a case of welcome to the world of being a parent, do some parents not think of this before they have children?

 

Maybe it's the job of the state to accommodate everyones personal situation? This is what gripes me, maybe the two words 'Parental responsibility' have slipped out of the vocabulary of some, maybe if a few more made an effort and led the way, then things might start to change.

 

I accept that this is life and is the same for any hard-working parents, unfortunately, some parents do seem to get penalised for having a good moral and ethical outlook on life and the system can be stacked up against you if you have a family and work.

 

Do the school have a breakfast club/evening club or early riser scheme? If so, subscribe to it then the kids get school earlier and it won't have any impact upon going to work.

 

Failing that, surely the company they work for could offer some flexibility? Mind you, I'm not surprised if they don't, as they are hard-working people, therefore they get indirectly penalised.

 

As for your last sentence - of course I do. My working hours are subject to the needs of the service, I rarely work under 45 hours a week, although I do get an odd days flexi day here and there [two in 8 weeks].

 

When I start/finish work I have to then place the normal everyday chores on top of that. My weekends are busy, so are my mornings/evenings. I also do voluntary work undertaking ESOL classes for a project funded by the NHS in the evening.

[tpbury]

What an arsehole you are!

 

I'm with Dune on this. In one of the worst cases of school run madness, I saw an ambulance held up for 15 mins whilst various slummy-mummies tried to move their husbands Range Rovers from blocking the entrance to a side road near our local school. Luckily the old dear who was suffering heart pains was OK, but imagine if it had been a fire engine needing to get down the road? The even more sad point was the at least 3 of the Mums lived on the same road as me, which is only 10 mins walk from the school. Disgusting.

 

How do you get your kids to school Pancake? If you lived next to a train station you'd expect a lot of traffic at peak hours - a narrow access road like many in Hants stations could be blocked by Chardonnay dropping Robert off for the Stockbroker Run. Yes I did complain about you as I object to being classified. I think this is essentially a category error - yes some people are lazy and take the mickey, others understand the situation around the school and attempt to minimize disruption to the local residents for the three or four minutes they are there. If you don't choose to discern the difference, then you are likely to just go around calling everyone an arsehole which can only lend weight to the conclusion that you may be one yourself.

 

For the record, we bought a house next to the school because we didn't want the hassle of driving the kids to school - it was one of our main search criteria. Strangely, at school time, there were many cars parked on the pavement. Quelle surprise! Some of the people dropping the kids off were prime d-heads - e.g accelerating off to 50 while there was loads of kids around - but it's ok, fast cars are cool.

[bridge too far]

@ Barney Trubble again

 

You obviously didn't read my post but, rather, jumped to conclusions and stereotyping. What a shame.

 

My grandchildren are at NURSERY schools that aren't conveniently placed at the bottom of their respective roads. They DO have their breakfast at nursery when they're dropped off at 7.30 (when the nursery opens) and they have to be collected by 7pm when the nursery closes. Given that both daughters are working 10 hours paid work a day in order to 'save' one day a week to be at home, it's difficult to see how they can further fit in any flexible hours.

 

Of course they didn't have to have children and yes, they did work out all this before they started their families. However, there comes a time, unfortunately, when women can't put off families any longer. Lord help us if every woman decided against having children for fear of being criticised by the likes of you - who on earth would pay for your and my pension in the future.

 

But still, once my grandson goes to big school, he'll be able to travel to the school with his father who is a teacher there. Or will you expect his father still to walk him to school, even though its 20 miles away?

 

Talk about tunnel vision - sheesh!

[dune]

They DO have their breakfast at nursery when they're dropped off at 7.30 (when the nursery opens) and they have to be collected by 7pm when the nursery closes.

 

Why don't you buy them sleeping bags and let them kip over at the nursery.

[View From The Top]

@ Barney Trubble again

 

You obviously didn't read my post but, rather, jumped to conclusions and stereotyping. What a shame.

 

My grandchildren are at NURSERY schools that aren't conveniently placed at the bottom of their respective roads. They DO have their breakfast at nursery when they're dropped off at 7.30 (when the nursery opens) and they have to be collected by 7pm when the nursery closes. Given that both daughters are working 10 hours paid work a day in order to 'save' one day a week to be at home, it's difficult to see how they can further fit in any flexible hours.

 

Of course they didn't have to have children and yes, they did work out all this before they started their families. However, there comes a time, unfortunately, when women can't put off families any longer. Lord help us if every woman decided against having children for fear of being criticised by the likes of you - who on earth would pay for your and my pension in the future.

 

But still, once my grandson goes to big school, he'll be able to travel to the school with his father who is a teacher there. Or will you expect his father still to walk him to school, even though its 20 miles away?

 

Talk about tunnel vision - sheesh!

 

Your daughters are abdicating their roles as mothers if they are letting others raise their children for 10 hours per day.

 

Far too many put career ahead of children these days.

[bridge too far]

Your daughters are abdicating their roles as mothers if they are letting others raise their children for 10 hours per day.

 

Far too many put career ahead of children these days.

 

That's harsh. The only way they could afford to buy / rent property, living so close to London, is to work fulltime hours. By working 10 hours a day for four days, they have 3 days a week with their children. They also each have two grandmothers happy and willing to look after their children for two days a week each child. So each child only spends two days a week at nursery.

 

I was sceptical at first, I must admit, but both children are very bright, happy and sociable so I don't think they're suffering at all.

 

Please don't generalise - you don't know anything about them or their circumstances, or indeed their children. Perhaps their fathers should give up their jobs instead, so that the family has to rely on benefits, since my daughters earn more than their partners? My daughters would hate to rely on the state.

[sandwichsaint]

The problem is that parents are allowed to choose where they send their brats.

 

Under the old system only the village and designated villages used the school. Those in the village walked, those in designated villages caught the bus. Now that it's a free for all they all have to drive. It's ridiculous.

 

Don't be a t-w-a-t, this is exactly the 'free market' economic and social argot that you espouse!

[Barney Trubble]

@ Barney Trubble again

 

You obviously didn't read my post but, rather, jumped to conclusions and stereotyping. What a shame.

 

My grandchildren are at NURSERY schools that aren't conveniently placed at the bottom of their respective roads. They DO have their breakfast at nursery when they're dropped off at 7.30 (when the nursery opens) and they have to be collected by 7pm when the nursery closes. Given that both daughters are working 10 hours paid work a day in order to 'save' one day a week to be at home, it's difficult to see how they can further fit in any flexible hours.

 

Of course they didn't have to have children and yes, they did work out all this before they started their families. However, there comes a time, unfortunately, when women can't put off families any longer. Lord help us if every woman decided against having children for fear of being criticised by the likes of you - who on earth would pay for your and my pension in the future.

 

But still, once my grandson goes to big school, he'll be able to travel to the school with his father who is a teacher there. Or will you expect his father still to walk him to school, even though its 20 miles away?

 

Talk about tunnel vision - sheesh!

 

Not at all, learn to read. Then again, I guess you are used to always being in the right, pointless wasting my time with someone who is holier than thou.

 

I guess you/your daughter will do as you please anyway, because you are always in the right aren't you?

 

I guess you can justify your sanctimonious, self-righteousness to yourself without realising that you aren't looking further than the end of your nose - it doesn't wash with me though....scratch beneath the surface and people will see you for what you really are.

[bridge too far]

Not at all, learn to read. Then again, I guess you are used to always being in the right, pointless wasting my time with someone who is holier than thou.

 

I guess you/your daughter will do as you please anyway, because you are always in the right aren't you?

 

I guess you can justify your sanctimonious, self-righteousness to yourself without realising that you aren't looking further than the end of your nose - it doesn't wash with me though....scratch beneath the surface and people will see you for what you really are.

 

See, you didn't read thoroughly. I was talking about my daughters - PLURAL - and no, I'm often wrong and happy to admit I am if it's pointed out to me sensibly.

 

Thankfully, my daughters, and my son, have been brought up to have their own opinions and they will do as they please - not as I please.

 

My children work long and hard to support their own families and one daughter even manages to find one evening a week to support families in crisis on a voluntary basis for Barnados.

 

You can have a pop at me as often as you like. I'm old enough to have developed a thick skin. But criticise my daughters and you will always incur my wrath. Now sod off to your ivory tower.

[Deppo]

Thankfully, my daughters, and my son, have been brought up to have their own opinions and they will do as they please - not as I please.

 

You can have a pop at me as often as you like. I'm old enough to have developed a thick skin. But criticise my daughters and you will always incur my wrath. Now sod off to your ivory tower.

 

So is it ok to criticise your son?

[bridge too far]

So is it ok to criticise your son?

 

I often do

[Deppo]

I don't like his hair. He looks like an idiot.

[bridge too far]

I don't like his hair. He looks like an idiot.

 

Many, if not most, of the posters on here would envy his hair. He isn't, and doesn't look like, an idiot. However, since I haven't received any flowers (yet) today I can only conclude that he's a poor son (not really, I've told them all not to pay over-inflated prices to 'tell me they love me')

 

But, boy, has this thread strayed from the OP!

[Deppo]

Or maybe, after years of criticism, he actually doesn't love you? Mothers Day is a good day to tell your mum that you love her, but it also a great opportunity to let her know that you don't. I can see where he's coming from. You clearly love your daughters and they can do no wrong, but the boy can never do anything right, according to you. It's no wonder he's made the point by not getting you any flowers.

[bridge too far]

Or maybe, after years of criticism, he actually doesn't love you? Mothers Day is a good day to tell your mum that you love her, but it also a great opportunity to let her know that you don't. I can see where he's coming from. You clearly love your daughters and they can do no wrong, but the boy can never do anything right, according to you. It's no wonder he's made the point by not getting you any flowers.

 

Yep, you could well be right. I'll find out for sure tonight when I'll have the delight of having all my children and grandchildren around me to celebrate my oldest daughter's 40th birthday.

 

Do I detect undertones of a little boy called Deppo feeling his mummy doesn't love him as much as she loves his sisters?

 

PS Why is Mothers' Day a good day to tell your mum you love her? What's wrong with all the other days of the year?

[Deppo]

Mothers Day is the perfect day for telling your mother you love her - it's what it's designed for. You don't wish someone "Merry Christmas" when it's not Christmas, do you? You don't go round in July saying "Happy new year", do you? Exactly. You wouldn't, on Fathers Day, buy your mother some flowers and wish her happy Mothers Day. I rest my case.

[bridge too far]

If I had an ample bosom, I'd offer it to you to cry on, Deppo.

[Deppo]

My mother does love me. She always told me she loved me when I was growing up. She made me wear a dress and make-up and would say that I am "the prettiest little girl in the whole world" and that "Mummy loves her little girl". So your cod psychology is way off the mark, BTF.

[dune]

If I had an ample bosom, I'd offer it to you, Deppo.

 

You're backward coming forward are you.

[Deppo]

You should learn the "coming forward" bit.

[dune]

You should learn the "coming forward" bit.

 

I believe in evolution, not revolution.

[Deppo]

When will you start the process?

[dingbattigger]

Deppo please don't get banned again. I missed your humour (this is Mrs D BTW, Mr D is at the match)

[Red and White Army]

Has dune got a job yet?

[Patrick Bateman]

I absolutely sympathise with people who suffer from traffic caused by the school run. But please don't stereotype those who do the dropping off.

 

Both my daughters drop their children off at nursery on their way to their places of work, where they do highly productive work. They simply don't have time to walk to the nursery and back and then go to work, given that they both work 40 hour weeks over 4 days.

 

Of course they do, they are your kids. Other people may not agree of course.

[Patrick Bateman]

@ Barney Trubble

 

No they can't get up earlier. They already get up at 5.30 to do the domestic stuff, feed the babies, get the babies to nursery at 7.30 so they can get to work at 8 or 8.30 (depending on which daughter we're talking about). They then work until 6 / 6.30, collect the babies, go to the shops if necessary and get home to cook the family meal at around 7 / 7.30 - in time to get the babies into bed.

 

Nurseries arem't usually as close at hand as schools (certainly not within walking distance) and also they have limited hours (i.e. you've got to collect your child by 7.00 pm).

 

They simply don't have enough hours in the day to manage without driving the babies to nursery - the alternative would be to work their hours over 5 days but that would cost them each another £60 per week in nursery fees and mean they would miss out on their one day a week they devote solely to their small children.

 

I'm sure you probably do, but just for the record - do you also organise the laundry, shopping, cooking and cleaning on top of your 50 hour week and walking your children to and from school?

 

Have to ask, why have children if you're not going to be at home to look after them and raise them? I just don't understand this. It's not as if most people who go use nurseries are poor either, the one near us is over-populated at 7am or so (with similar parents who don't care about raising their children themselves and building decent relationship) with X5s, Range Rovers, Q7s, etc etc etc. If you can't afford not to work full time, don't drive a £40k+ car, problem solved.

 

There are always cut backs that can be made. I'll happily get rid of my car, dump my TV channels and buy less (expensive) wine and so on.

 

Back to the original point; I used to walk and cycle to school. My secondary school was 5 miles away ... I was healthy (back then!).

[Deppo]

Back to the original point; I used to walk and cycle to school. My secondary school was 5 miles away ... I was healthy (back then!).

 

You probably weren't cute enough for the local paedos, though.

[bridge too far]

Have to ask, why have children if you're not going to be at home to look after them and raise them? I just don't understand this. It's not as if most people who go use nurseries are poor either, the one near us is over-populated at 7am or so (with similar parents who don't care about raising their children themselves and building decent relationship) with X5s, Range Rovers, Q7s, etc etc etc. If you can't afford not to work full time, don't drive a £40k+ car, problem solved.

 

There are always cut backs that can be made. I'll happily get rid of my car, dump my TV channels and buy less (expensive) wine and so on.

 

Back to the original point; I used to walk and cycle to school. My secondary school was 5 miles away ... I was healthy (back then!).

 

I used to cycle to school (from Sholing to Hill Lane) but the roads were a lot safer back then.

 

Are those questions aimed at my grandchildrens' fathers? Or mothers? I know, from bitter experience, that it is essential for women to have careers these days as so often they're saddled with crap partners who let them down and leave them to struggle on their own. At least having a decent career obviates the need to go onto benefits.

 

And, for everyone's information, my daughters both drive old, little cars that cost, I guess, about £6K tops.

 

You patronising lot just don't know what the real world's like for struggling young families. But hey, as long as you're OK....

[Deppo]

Keep your bra on sweetheart.

[tpbury]

Well, I imagine Deppo and BTF are working through some issues right now, possibly involving Om and heavy breathing. They may both be weeping tears of release. Who's to know?

 

Fact remains there are more than two intrasigents on this thread who are winding up owners of kids. I don't know whether they are survivalist types ('keep'em in the pound!') or just blummin so perfectly in control of their lives that getting kids to school/nursery is not a problem at all - if so, send me the manual. Or else,perhaps you don't have kids.

 

There was a time when I didn't have children - it was the first thirty years of my life. During those years I didn't start hating people with children, or start crying when a baby cried in my fave restaurant.

 

I'll say this - people who don't understand the travails of getting children to school whilst incorporating all the other daily activities of life are wilfully ignorant.

[Deppo]

Are you suggesting that dune is wilfully ignorant? Controversial.

[View From The Top]

Are you suggesting that dune is wilfully ignorant? Controversial.

 

If Dune had a job he'd be at work and he'd miss the school run anyway.

[Thedelldays]

what the hell does Dune do...?

 

does it deserve its own thread and discussion..?

[Deppo]

dune doesn't start work until 6pm. He is CJ from the Eggheads.

[dune]

If Dune had a job he'd be at work and he'd miss the school run anyway.

 

I've always had a job.

[Jonnyboy]

Seems some people think having kids is only for the rich.

[Wade Garrett]

Your daughters are abdicating their roles as mothers if they are letting others raise their children for 10 hours per day.

 

Far too many put career ahead of children these days.

 

Spot on.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I imagine Deppo and BTF are working through some issues right now, possibly involving Om and heavy breathing. They may both be weeping tears of release. Who's to know?

 

Fact remains there are more than two intrasigents on this thread who are winding up owners of kids. I don't know whether they are survivalist types ('keep'em in the pound!') or just blummin so perfectly in control of their lives that getting kids to school/nursery is not a problem at all - if so, send me the manual. Or else,perhaps you don't have kids.

 

There was a time when I didn't have children - it was the first thirty years of my life. During those years I didn't start hating people with children, or start crying when a baby cried in my fave restaurant.

 

I'll say this - people who don't understand the travails of getting children to school whilst incorporating all the other daily activities of life are wilfully ignorant.

 

Bullsh*t. I have 2 kids, both at school, and despair of the lazy f*ckers who drive their kids to school and think they can park where they like. W@nkers.

[Special K]

Your daughters are abdicating their roles as mothers if they are letting others raise their children for 10 hours per day.

 

Far too many put career ahead of children these days.

 

What a load of crap. Just because you send your kids to nursery doesn't mean you abdicate responsibility for bringing the kids up. Kids need to interact with other kids to improve social skills and the nursery is a great way of doing this. It also helps that they are able to play and learn some things whilst in an environment that replicates what they will go through whilst at school. My wife chose to not work when ours were young, but we still sent our nippers to nursery 2 days a week for their own benefit.

 

Back to parking, personally i find there is always a problem with inconsiderate drivers who park up next to the school on the chevrons to drop off the kids, but these tend to be mothers who have put on a coat over their PJ's so they can go straight back home to watch Jeremy Kyle and slum about on benefits all day, lazy ****ers.

[View From The Top]

What a load of crap. Just because you send your kids to nursery doesn't mean you abdicate responsibility for bringing the kids up. Kids need to interact with other kids to improve social skills and the nursery is a great way of doing this. It also helps that they are able to play and learn some things whilst in an environment that replicates what they will go through whilst at school. My wife chose to not work when ours were young, but we still sent our nippers to nursery 2 days a week for their own benefit.

 

 

I think you may need to read it in context. Your wife, as did mine, choose to stay at home when the kids were very young. You didn't leave your kids in a nursery for 10 hours a day.

 

My youngest goes to nursery 3 1/2 days a week and my wife works. Daughter loves going and we are very happy with the nursery. However, dumping your kids for 10hrs at a time strikes me, and it is only my opinion, as very poor parenting.

 

My wife changed her career and took a big drop in salary to be with our kids in their early years. Our kids weren't a lifestyle choice.

[bridge too far]

I think you may need to read it in context. Your wife, as did mine, choose to stay at home when the kids were very young. You didn't leave your kids in a nursery for 10 hours a day.

 

My youngest goes to nursery 3 1/2 days a week and my wife works. Daughter loves going and we are very happy with the nursery. However, dumping your kids for 10hrs at a time strikes me, and it is only my opinion, as very poor parenting.

 

My wife changed her career and took a big drop in salary to be with our kids in their early years. Our kids weren't a lifestyle choice.

 

It's actually 9 hours a day for two days (as you would have realised had you read my post properly). Each daughter works 40 hours over 4 days so that they can spend that extra 'non-working' day with their toddlers. I look after each grandchild one day a week from 7.30 to 6.30 as do their other grandmothers.

 

So, both children are very bright, adaptable, sociable and learning different skills in different places. My granddaughter, who is nearly 3, is starting to read now and do simple sums and my grandson, just 2, knows all his alphabet letters and counts up to 20. They're really suffering at the hands of their cruel mothers, aren't they.

 

Living close to London, there is no way either family could afford to rent, let alone buy, decent accommodation if the mothers didn't work. Perhaps they should live in a grotty flat, cooped up with the children all day, every day. That would be good for all concerned, wouldn't it

 

Some people need to realise that, these days, not many families can afford the luxury of having one parent stay at home until the child is 5. Or, as someone else said, perhaps only the wealthy should have children from now on? You know - the wealthy that send small children to boarding schools.

 

Oh.

[Jez]

So, where are Dune's pictures of these children? I read three pages of guff arguing about whether BTF raised good mothers (sounds like she did to me) and still no pictures of Dune's 'Cul-De-Sac' covered in cars parked on zig zags lines and on the pavement.

[saintbletch]

It's actually 9 hours a day for two days (as you would have realised had you read my post properly). Each daughter works 40 hours over 4 days so that they can spend that extra 'non-working' day with their toddlers. I look after each grandchild one day a week from 7.30 to 6.30 as do their other grandmothers.

 

So, both children are very bright, adaptable, sociable and learning different skills in different places. My granddaughter, who is nearly 3, is starting to read now and do simple sums and my grandson, just 2, knows all his alphabet letters and counts up to 20. They're really suffering at the hands of their cruel mothers, aren't they.

 

Living close to London, there is no way either family could afford to rent, let alone buy, decent accommodation if the mothers didn't work. Perhaps they should live in a grotty flat, cooped up with the children all day, every day. That would be good for all concerned, wouldn't it

 

Some people need to realise that, these days, not many families can afford the luxury of having one parent stay at home until the child is 5. Or, as someone else said, perhaps only the wealthy should have children from now on? You know - the wealthy that send small children to boarding schools.

 

Oh.

 

BTF, I would never dream of commenting on the parenting skills of someone else. It's none of my business. I also feel a little uncomfortable that you're happy to talk about your family's situation in this way.

 

So assuming I'm commenting generically about modern parenting and not specifically about your daughters' situations, the one thing you didn't comment on in your defence above is the quality of the mother-child relationship for kids that don't see their mothers for 4 days a week. And we're not really able to gauge that until adulthood and then it's too late to go back and fix it.

 

Each time a child in a nursery experiences new things; each time they experience joy, concern or fear; each time they hurt themselves and each time they look around for assurance from the one person that should always be there for them; what happens when they see a stranger?

 

Even a kind and professional stranger that has been paid to become moderately familiar to the child?

 

I guess that over time others assume that role for the child and they learn to live without that closeness, they learn that it's OK to not always be there. They compensate and become hardier, more self-sufficient. Traits we commend in adults. Not traits that IMO we should wish to see in the very young.

 

I couldn't agree more that modern life puts pressures on parents such that they can't easily stay at home and raise their children themselves. But to not acknowledge the potentially negative effect of choosing to have children and choosing to continue to work, is not being true to the argument.

 

What would be better? A child that can recite the alphabet at a young age and live in a house that isn't rented or an unbreakable bond forged by receiving unconditional love and attention over the first 5-6 years of life in poorer rented accomodation? I recognise that for some parents this isn't mutually exclusive, but the evidence I've seen suggests that there is a real choice with real consequences.

 

I also acknowledge that the idea of staying home and immersing themselves in raising a family is some women's (and men's) idea of hell and therefore it suits them to devolve that responsibility to others. But let's not pretend that that aren't consequences of such a decision.

 

I'm not sitting in judgement here. If parents are able to make their situation work for them and have no regrets then more power to them. But as a society we have to recognise that our future citizens and the society they will shape are both forged in the early life of our youngsters and the values we try to ensure they have.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

What about those of us who park outside schools to watch, that don't have children?

[bridge too far]

Thanks for your reasoned comments Saint Bletch. I don't think I've really given out too much personal information about my family.

 

My grandchildren, of course, are able to share their nursery (and grandmother) experiences with their parents every day when they get home, or when their parents get home. And you're right - academic achievement, even at such a young age, is nothing if the child isn't stable, secure and happy. From what I've seen (and remember, I see them a lot) they seem very secure and happy to me.

 

I should add that one son-in-law is a primary school teacher. Unfortunately, and contrary to popular opinion, this means he also doesn't usually get home until 6.30pm but it DOES mean that he's around for some part of the school holidays - more than most fathers, I reckon. The crazy thing is, they still have to pay for the nursery place even though the child isn't there when teacher dad's at home.

 

I said at the outset that, initially, I had concerns about them spending 2 days a week at a nursery. I went to a nursery school and was, I think, very well prepared for big school. My own children only went to playgroup, because I didn't need to work (but then women didn't need to in the 70s), and one child found starting school quite difficult.

 

Some parents (and you are right to include fathers here) DO find being at home with under 5s quite trying. Some parents have no choice but to both work when they have young children. It might not just be about money but also about continuing professional development (e.g. a doctor or lawyer).

 

I have seen no evidence to suggest that my grandchildren suffer from being at nursery for two days a week. The other 5 days are spent productively at home with parents and grandparents. I have older grandchildren too, neither of whom show signs of anti-social behaviour, and both of whom are, also, high achievers.

 

I'm sorry this thread got hi-jacked by this discussion. My original post had been to point out that some parents have to drive their children to school, for a variety of genuine reasons. But I also said that I entirely sympathised with Dune's complaint and that I agree with him with regard to stay-at-home parents.

 

I'll make no further comment because, quite frankly, I find the antediluvian attitudes of some on here quite upsetting, particularly when the perpetrators feel they can sit in judgement on a set of people whose circumstances they know nothing about. Knee-jerk stereotyping shows a lack of respect for individuals and also demonstrates that some of those dinosaurs belong to the 'I'm alright, sod the rest of you' brigade and lack the skills to understand that people have different needs and apply different solutions. There's no right or wrong about it.

[Special K]

I think you may need to read it in context. Your wife, as did mine, choose to stay at home when the kids were very young. You didn't leave your kids in a nursery for 10 hours a day.

 

My youngest goes to nursery 3 1/2 days a week and my wife works. Daughter loves going and we are very happy with the nursery. However, dumping your kids for 10hrs at a time strikes me, and it is only my opinion, as very poor parenting.

 

My wife changed her career and took a big drop in salary to be with our kids in their early years. Our kids weren't a lifestyle choice.

 

We sent our nippers to nursery for 10 hours a day for the 2 days they were there (drop off at 8.00am, pick up at 6.00pm - doesn't seem a problem to me). What I don't see is how this can serve as a reason for someone to judge on our, or anyones, parental ability?

[tpbury]

Bletch - an awesome read of considered argument and correct punctuation of genitive collectives. BTF - a passionate response of heartfelt frustration. It's nearly two years since I left UK, I do wonder in another two years if I'd be let back in! I just think the place may be run by Dunists. I consider him to be an intelligent and erudite person, but I suspect he may be propelled into a postiion of power and obliged to execute Deppo in order to satisfy his cronies. Could happen!

[hypochondriac]

It is a fact that sending your children to nursery AND spending time at home with them is the best way to bring up a child in general

Edited 6 April, 2011 by hypochondriac