Lawries biggest mistake when managing us

[Trader]

 

Agree +1

 

I thought I was the only one.

[Fowllyd]

Now I'm going to be a little controversional here...

 

When Lawrie took over from Ted in December 1973 we were 5th-9th in the old First Division (I don't know the exact date but that was the movement during December 1973).

 

We were relegated in 20th place that season - not a great start, especially as he signed the likes of Lew Chatterley from his old club FFS)

 

OK, we won the FA Cup in 1976 from our new lowly status (I have to say with a huge slice of luck, but I'll take that)

 

And he managed to sign a load of fading stars using his undoubted personality in the 80's.

 

But at the end of the day there wasn't much planning for the future.

 

I'll take cover now for the inevitable storm - be gentle!

 

Yes, Lawrie brought in older players, almost all of whom served us very well, some for a season or two, others for longer - Alan Ball, Mick Mills, Frank Worthington and others. But that's only a part of the picture.

 

It was during his time as manager that we established a superb youth set-up, with selection centres in various parts of the country, not just Southampton. This produced the likes of Steve Williams, Nick Holmes, the Wallace brothers, Steve Moran, Ruben Agboola, Graham Baker and others. We also brought in excellent young players such as Mark Wright and Mark Dennis and experienced pros like David Armstrong and Peter Shilton, all able to offer many years of service (no, they didn't all stick around, but that's hardly the point here).

 

Look at it this way - at the time that Lawrie left we were a very good side, with a number of excellent home-produced players and more coming through. If that's not planning for the future then I'm not sure what is.

[um pahars]

But at the end of the day there wasn't much planning for the future.

 

You make it sound as though he just built a team of old seasoned pros with no eye on the future. You seem to be forgetting the role played by Ole Soapy Massage Man, Bob Higgins in bringing youngsters through to the first team and the great mixture of youth and experience that many of McMenemy's teams included.

 

In his last season the following were playing - Dennis 24, Townsend 22, Whitlock 24, Wright 22, Agboola 23, Lawrence 23, Moran 24, Wallace 21. Other stalwarts such as Case and Shilton were also around for a while after he left as well.

 

Others for the future who were on our books/linked up with us when he left included two Wallaces and a Le Tiss amongst others.

 

During his time with us he certainly brought in experienced pros (and got a second wind out of many) and played them alongside numerous youngsters and he certainly left us with a decent amount of younger players.

[Turkish]

one of my earriest football memories were us losing 1-0 at Everton in the 84 semi, then beating them 3-1 in the league a week or less later and asking my dad why we couldn't do that on saturday. I was 8 years old at the time and the memory of that week still rings true, at the time i didn't realise how close we were to the double and how good we were as a side, but one thing it did mean was that i was a saint forever.

[Turkish]

That season (83/84) we not only should have won the cup but we should have won the league as well. We ended up as runners up just 3 points behind the eventual champions Liverpool.

 

That season we dropped 3 points at home to the bottom team (notts County). I am sure that Lawrie must have made mistakes that day ... but I cannot remember what they were. Where he did muck up was in early April when he played a weakened team at Everton a week or so before the semi final. It was a morning game as the National was that day. it was a horrible game which we lost (1-0 I think). A full strength team couldn't have done any worse and 3 points there could well have won us the title.

 

The saddest thing in writing this is that younger Saints may find it difficult to believe we were that close to doing the Double. It seems like a totally different world!!

 

That is one of my earliet memories as a saints fan. I was 8 years old at the time and it wasn't until 7 or 8 years later that i looked at the results that season and thought "f*ck, we could have won the doulbe that year" I can only imagine how great that 83/84 season must have been, the win at pompey, watching the best team in the country week in week out, and being that close to doing the double, i just feel lucky to have know that, albeit as a child, we were and still are a great club.

[Hyde and Seek]

LM certainly set up a great side for Chris Nicholl. Not only that but he made us a household name. I lived in Scotland in the late 70's and early 80's and some of my Scottish friends took a greater interest in our club, particularly after we signed Keegan. As for his greatest mistake, I recall seeing at Millwall ground some grafitti saying what were 2 things that should never have left Southampton. The first was the Titanic the second LM.

OK LM made numerous mistakes as a manager but on the whole they were interesting times and I don't recall losing to Pompey during his time in charge.

[chrisobee]

Lawrie made a massive mistake summer of 95 when he didn't insist on Alan Ball being given a pay rise instead of letting him go to man chity

 

Bally never played for Man City and retired in 1984, LM was no longer manager in 1995, I am not aware there was EVER an issue with Bally over money. Otherwise it might have been a huge mistake

[chrisobee]

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?9682-Saints-Greatest-XI-The-Best-Managers-Poll

[Turkish]

Bally never played for Man City and retired in 1984, LM was no longer manager in 1995, I am not aware there was EVER an issue with Bally over money. Otherwise it might have been a huge mistake

 

LM was DOF when Bally was manager in 95, they didn't knock back Man City when they wanted to talk to him so Bally thought they weren't arsed about him leaving. A few years back he was very open and honest about this at a Q&A session at half time during an Everton game which was live on telly, it was held in Brannigans down the bottom of town.

[Badger]

LM was DOF when Bally was manager in 95, they didn't knock back Man City when they wanted to talk to him so Bally thought they weren't arsed about him leaving. A few years back he was very open and honest about this at a Q&A session at half time during an Everton game which was live on telly, it was held in Brannigans down the bottom of town.

 

How did LM expand on this issue ?

[dubai_phil]

Yes, Lawrie brought in older players, almost all of whom served us very well, some for a season or two, others for longer - Alan Ball, Mick Mills, Frank Worthington and others. But that's only a part of the picture.

 

It was during his time as manager that we established a superb youth set-up, with selection centres in various parts of the country, not just Southampton. This produced the likes of Steve Williams, Nick Holmes, the Wallace brothers, Steve Moran, Ruben Agboola, Graham Baker and others. We also brought in excellent young players such as Mark Wright and Mark Dennis and experienced pros like David Armstrong and Peter Shilton, all able to offer many years of service (no, they didn't all stick around, but that's hardly the point here).

 

Look at it this way - at the time that Lawrie left we were a very good side, with a number of excellent home-produced players and more coming through. If that's not planning for the future then I'm not sure what is.

 

Not forgetting our selection centre on Tyneside that found Alan Shearer

[Turkish]

How did LM expand on this issue ?

 

It was Alan Ball not LM. He basically said what i have said above, Saints let him speak to Man City, made no attempt to keep him so he thought he they weren't arsed about him going, he said if Saints had stopped him speaking to Man City or asked him to leave he wouldn't have as was happy here.

[fromthedell]

lawries biggest mistake was getting rid of terry paine

and paul bennett !!!

[lordswoodsaints]

On the pitch on the pitch on the pitch

[BGF]

One issue I will always have with LM is on a interview which he said that the cost of going to football match should be greater than going to a live show, the problem I have is that at least in a live show you know what you're going to see, with football and especially SFC you dont know who's turning up, that is then and now.

 

I can remember speaking to some Grimsby fans after he signed for us, I asked is he any good they replied as a manager he is crap but getting people behind the team he is brilliant, I remember LM taking the team to the docks & to Ford's and getting massive publicity, so he was good at that.

 

I also remember Lew Chatterley playing for us, his final match he was subbed and all the fans boo'ed him off the pitch the following Tuesday it was announced he was being appointed as a coach at Torquay, that made my day. Why LM ever played him I'll never know but somebody once said that he was LM's brother in law so that seemed to fit.

[rallyboy]

that's the first time I've seen the Heath goal since sitting in the main stand at Highbury and watching it go in on the day.

That was a missed opportunity, I can still see Shilts, hands on hips, hundreds of scousers running past him - the sort of goal that's so late you know your season has just gone off the rails - gutting, that was our cup to win.

 

And while I enjoyed us finishing 2nd in the league, I recall that Liverpool ran away with it and then lost a couple of games after clinching it and we looked like we pushed them harder than we actually had....harsh or fair?

Either way it was 2nd in the top flight!

 

As for LM mistakes - alcohol-free lager?

[dubai_phil]

that's the first time I've seen the Heath goal since sitting in the main stand at Highbury and watching it go in on the day.

That was a missed opportunity, I can still see Shilts, hands on hips, hundreds of scousers running past him - the sort of goal that's so late you know your season has just gone off the rails - gutting, that was our cup to win.

 

And while I enjoyed us finishing 2nd in the league, I recall that Liverpool ran away with it and then lost a couple of games after clinching it and we looked like we pushed them harder than we actually had....harsh or fair?

Either way it was 2nd in the top flight!

 

As for LM mistakes - alcohol-free lager?

 

What was worse was that being Saints fans we just HAD to buy a can...

 

Oh and yes similar memories of 'Pool running away and us getting there "in the end" rather than seriously expecting to win it

[Kenilworthy]

Liverpool won the league by 3 points. That's hardly running away with it. They went out of the cup early so didn't miss league games while our run to the semi-final meant we had some catching up to do ie 3 games in the last week of the season - Birmingham away on the Saturday, West Brom away on the Monday and Notts County away on the Thursday.