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Saints sign 21 year old Dale Stephens on loan - official


Saint_clark

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That is really my point. We have been LINKED with a host of players whuo are proven succeses and many who look class in the league above. It isn't since last year that we have signed someone in that bracket IMO.

 

Because it's fecking hard for a third tier team to sign a player from the league above without paying over the odds for them. It doesn't point to a lack of cash, merely that we don't see the way forward as being spunking cash left, right and centre.

 

Norwich couldn't sign M-S and they have a decent chance of being in the Prem next year.

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maybe a 21/23 year old midfielder, who is his clubs top scorer and vice captain, who signed 3 year contract a few months ago and seems to be a fans favorite is not much cheaper than a 28 year old midfielder, who hasn't scored this season, played less than half of his sides games and is towards the end of his contract?

 

Didn't sound like it from what derry was saying.

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Because it's fecking hard for a third tier team to sign a player from the league above without paying over the odds for them. It doesn't point to a lack of cash, merely that we don't see the way forward as being spunking cash left, right and centre.

 

Norwich couldn't sign M-S and they have a decent chance of being in the Prem next year.

 

We seemed to manage it last year. I'm just speculating on the possibility (and my belief) that finance or circumstances have perhaps changed.

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We seemed to manage it last year. I'm just speculating on the possibility (and my belief) that finance or circumstances have perhaps changed.

 

Fonte was an exception as Palace were fecked. Lambert was a third tier player from a small club with limited prospects. You are not saying anything sensible.

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Last year we were bulding the team.

 

That's a possibility I agree. So possibly we felt that we needed to pay for proven players last year but now we have some of them, we should go for cheaper players with potential now. Perhaps that will give us some clues as to our transfer policy in the CCC. It will certainly be interesting to see that and I shall watch with interest.

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We signed the likes of Fonte / Lambert when we had no-one in those positions.

 

If you look at the signing of Chaplow, only a few weeks ago - he is midfielder approaching his peak age, who has played at CCC level had transfer fees of best part of £3m, added to Morgan, and Hammond personally don't think we are looking cheap in CM

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Maybe Saints think Dale Stephens is/will be better than Brian Howard? Entirely plausible, one on the way up, the other arguably beyond his peak.

 

People have moaned before that we never exploit the lower league market, and then moan when we do....

 

And if you read what I said, I never said that that is not entirely possible. All I'm saying is that Stephens is a gamble.

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We signed the likes of Fonte / Lambert when we had no-one in those positions.

 

If you look at the signing of Chaplow, only a few weeks ago - he is midfielder approaching his peak age, who has played at CCC level had transfer fees of best part of £3m, added to Morgan, and Hammond personally don't think we are looking cheap in CM

 

Yes but be serious, at the time we signed Chaplow he was out of favour and certainly not worth 3 million.

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maybe a 21/23 year old midfielder, who is his clubs top scorer and vice captain, who signed 3 year contract a few months ago and seems to be a fans favorite is not much cheaper than a 28 year old midfielder, who hasn't scored this season, played less than half of his sides games and is towards the end of his contract?

 

Didn't sound like it from what derry was saying.

 

sorry not sure what you mean? It could be we went for a more expensive ambitious option - who isn't as well known to us? Don't know but due to above can't imagine Stephens' total package much, if any cheaper

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Hypo - remember we can only field 11 players. To replace any of our starting XI with better players would be very costly- arguably we won't attract better than we have now until we step up to CCC.

 

Yes but we can't play the same eleven every game. I do sort of agree and it's why we will only see if my theory is correct once we make the step up to the CCC.

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Butterfied- good player and an exception though possibly not on too much wage wise and we got him on a free.

 

He was an established Championship player for many year on a free transfer. Signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages apply.

 

Chaplow- On a free again probably not on too much

 

Was one of Preston's highest earners and one of the reasons they wanted to sell him due to financial problems.

 

Forte- Certainly would not have been on much and not rated at all by S****horpe. Yet to show much here so jury still out

 

If he was not "rated" by S****horpe, why did he play 27 Championship League games between August 2010 and January 2011?

 

N'Guessan- Looked good against Exter away then not much cop since. Fringe player in the CCC and on loan.

 

For both N'Guessan and Forte, how many minutes on the pitch of live action have you seen them play to make a judgement? Not games, minutes.

 

Guly- Played majority of career in serie B.

 

Serie B is a higher standard than League One, and Guly was a key player for a promotion winning side. You also seem to think he didn't cost much. Loan fee, transfer fee, signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages to attract him to move mean it is a big deal for a League One side.

 

Dickson- Unnecessary signing and money possibly based on appearances, hence why he hasn't played much recently?

 

You really think the money based on appearances is the reason he hasn't played? It was £125k upfront, with roughly the same again for appearances. A tiny figure! Dan Harding has been in better form, so Dickson hasn't been in the squad, it is as simple as that.

 

Richardson- Hardly featured, wouldn't have been on much wage wise

 

He has played nearly 100 games at Championship level, a high earner at Charlton and League One right back of last season. I doubt his wages, signing on fee or agent fee was cheap given he also cost £450k - a significant amount for a Football League transfer.

 

Stephens- Young midfielder, unproven above this league, possibly good but unknown yet.

 

Scored 10 goals from midfield at this level from central midfield, vice captain at a young age and tracked according to the media by clubs like Everton and Leeds.

 

At least it seems you may give him a chance. I hope...

 

____________________________

 

You continue to post comments like this, ignoring that Saints have already spent heavily on the squad in the last 20 months, so don't need to spend huge amounts. The squad is already largely in place. You also ignore other factors involved in deals such as agent fees, signing on fees etc. Significantly you also ignore the multi million pound upgrade to Staplewood.

 

Finally Lallana, signed an improved 4.5 year deal. He could have left in the summer and gone to a Premier League club. The club however showed him enough ambition and finance to back that ambition to get him to sign for 4.5 years.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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sorry not sure what you mean? It could be we went for a more expensive ambitious option - who isn't as well known to us? Don't know but due to above can't imagine Stephens' total package much, if any cheaper

 

Difference is that IF that is the case (and wages wise surely he is much cheaper) then his resale value is also going to be much higher than Howard's.

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Then kindly ignore my comments. Something isn't automatically boring just because you disagree with it.

 

I am not saying it to try and wind you up, I am saying because you are constantly saying the same thing at every damned opportunity! We are in League One, it is nigh on impossible to sign anyone decent, with competitive match fitness from the prem/championship. So, to counter that we have signed a very promising young lad who has managed to stand out in a píss poor team.

 

I would give other blatantly obvious counter arguments to why your opinion that we no longer have the backing of liebherr's billions, but everyone has tried that already yet you choose to ignore that. Lallana signing, rejecting bids for Chambo, spending millions on training ground etc etc etc.

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fell out with the charming Fergie!

 

But 3 points will leave you with:

 

1) With CM of Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond - we already have some quality and are not in the same situation when we needed to start from scratch

2) Stephens could easily be more expensive with fees than Howard

3) we are lacking goals from CM, Stephens scores Howard doesn't

 

I am not knocking Howard, just pointing out that don't think we, with our limited knowledge of these players and their contracts, have anything to suggest NC is not backing the club financially for promotion

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I didn't read anything you have posted MLG but I am sick and tired of replying to you so I'm not going to bother beyond this post.

 

The rebuttal of an expect debater! You made numerous claims which I have then pointed out why I think they are wrong and all you do is...

 

enviromental-head-in-the-sand.jpg

Edited by Matthew Le God
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I didn't read anything you have posted MLG but I am sick and tired of replying to you so I'm not going to bother beyond this post.

 

Not being funny but you criticise posters for doing the same to you.

 

He has made some very good points in that post.

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He was an established Championship player for many year on a free transfer. Signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages apply.

 

 

 

Was one of Preston's highest earners and one of the reasons they wanted to see him due to financial problems.

 

 

 

If he was not "rated" by S****horpe, why did he play 27 Championship League games between August 2010 and January 2011?

 

 

 

For both N'Guessan and Forte, how many minutes on the pitch of live action have you seen them play to make a judgement? Not games, minutes.

 

 

 

Serie B is a higher standard than League One, and Guly was a key player for a promotion winning side. You also seem to think he didn't cost much. Loan fee, transfer fee, signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages to attract him to move mean it is a big deal for a League One side.

 

You really think the money based on appearances is the reason he hasn't played? It was £125k upfront, with roughly the same again for appearances. A tiny figure! Dan Harding has been in better form, so Dickson hasn't been in the squad, it is as simple as that.

 

 

 

He has played nearly 100 games at Championship level, a high earner at Charlton and League One right back of last season. I doubt his wages, signing on fee or agent fee was cheap given he also cost £450k - a significant amount for a Football League transfer.

 

 

 

Scored 10 goals from midfield at this level from central midfield, vice captain at a young age and tracked according to the media by clubs like Everton and Leeds.

 

At least it seems you may give him a chance. I hope...

 

____________________________

 

You continue to post comments like this, ignoring that Saints have already spent heavily on the squad in the last 20 months, so don't need to spend huge amounts. The squad is already largely in place. You also ignore other factors involved in deals such as agent fees, signing on fees etc. Significantly you also ignore the multi million pound upgrade to Staplewood.

 

I was about to write "you are wasting your time, Hypo will conveniently forget all of this within minutes so he can continue supporting his pathetic argument."

 

Then I saw this...

 

I didn't read anything you have posted MLG but I am sick and tired of replying to you so I'm not going to bother beyond this post.

 

:lol:

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Kris Temple from Solent tweeted that colleagues who have seen Stephens this season said he ran the show for Oldham, took all their set pieces and is left footed.

 

Oldham fans were describing him in the same way, their key player. Took their pen's too and was their vice captain.

 

Really optimistic about this signing.

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I am not saying it to try and wind you up, I am saying because you are constantly saying the same thing at every damned opportunity! We are in League One, it is nigh on impossible to sign anyone decent, with competitive match fitness from the prem/championship. So, to counter that we have signed a very promising young lad who has managed to stand out in a píss poor team.

 

As Brian howard was available it seems we have gone for potential instead rather than proven quality (a gamble which may pay off but we don't know yet). This to me represents a change in policy from last year and warrants discussion IMO.

 

I would give other blatantly obvious counter arguments to why your opinion that we no longer have the backing of liebherr's billions, but everyone has tried that already yet you choose to ignore that. Lallana signing, rejecting bids for Chambo, spending millions on training ground etc etc etc.

 

Lallana signing- Is blatantly worth it because anything we lose in wages we would more than make up eventually due to sell on fees. Remember that not having Liebherr's billions does NOT mean that we would have no money, just that our resources would be reduced from what we had last year.

 

Rejecting bids for Chambo- that means little. If we sell him next year or the year after, we will still get the same amount for him that we would have done this year.

 

Spending millions on training ground- It is entirely possible that Markus had green lighted this before his untimely death. Spending money on the training ground does not depreciate our asset anyway and makes it more attractive.

 

It is entirely possible that we could have had a tightening of our finances and still be able to spend money on these things and turn down bids for Chamberlin. I'm not saying this is what is definitely happening, simply that it is a possibility.

 

Now regardless of whether you think that is boring or not, I think it warrants some discussion. Sorry if that upsets you.

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I was about to write "you are wasting your time, Hypo will conveniently forget all of this within minutes so he can continue supporting his pathetic argument."

 

Then I saw this...

 

 

 

:lol:

 

If you have spent the time that I have replying to MLG's points countless times both on here and on another forum you would have the same reaction that I have.

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Kris Temple from Solent tweeted that colleagues who have seen Stephens this season said he ran the show for Oldham, took all their set pieces and is left footed.

 

Sounds encouraging. We really need a leader in the middle of the park and I hope this addresses that despite his young age.

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If you have spent the time that I have replying to MLG's points countless times both on here and on another forum you would have the same reaction that I have.

 

And at no point have I found your answers to my points to be adequate.

 

Address every point I make in post #219.

 

Three people have already said I raised some good points against your arguments, you have yet to change my mind on them with your answers. If you make a good rebuttal I am more than happy to agree with you. However at the moment I have a number of issues with some of the stuff you keep saying, as shown in post #219.

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I have addressed his points more than once on this and on another forum (as he well knows.)

 

Your point about Richardson is miles off though.

 

He was a significant signing in the close season, costing near enough half a million pounds. Wages will be decent, not low, because he'd have already been on decent money at Charlton.

 

The money really hasn't dried up, as others have said - significant investment was put forward initially to ''Build'' a team. That team has been built, however money has still been made available for the odd 1 or 2 additions to strengthen it.

 

We don't need another mega-bucks striker or a megabucks midfielder. We already have the team in place, additions like Dale are perfect.

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Hypo also forgets that the gap in TV and money from the Football League between the Championship and League One is about £4 million per year (not to mention lower advertising, away crowds, sponsorship etc in League One).

 

Look at Saints player transfer net spend in the two seasons since the takeover and add the £8 million it would have had if in the Championship compared to League One for two years. You can then see just how much the club has been spending relative to those in the league above who have had the additional £4m each season.

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He was an established Championship player for many year on a free transfer. Signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages apply.

 

He would cost something but would not break our wage structure or be an excessive fee or something which we could not afford from the wealth that we generate as a club.

 

Was one of Preston's highest earners and one of the reasons they wanted to sell him due to financial problems.

 

Preston were skint and Chaplow was unwanted there and clearly unhappy. He wanted to come so I imagine the terms would have been favourable.

 

If he was not "rated" by S****horpe, why did he play 27 Championship League games between August 2010 and January 2011?

 

He was not rated by S****horpe fans and their club are staring relegation in the face. He has yet to show that he can make a meaningful contribution and big doubts remain over whether he can do a job for a team looking to do well in the CCC.

 

For both N'Guessan and Forte, how many minutes on the pitch of live action have you seen them play to make a judgement? Not games, minutes.

 

I saw the whole Exeter game and successive ones where Nguessun has featured. I agree they need more time but I have not been impressed with what I have seen so far. Both have failed to make a meaningful impact so far though of course this can change in the game we have left. I am simply giving my opinion based on their performances thus far (and the comments from their respective clubs when we signed them.)

 

Serie B is a higher standard than League One, and Guly was a key player for a promotion winning side. You also seem to think he didn't cost much. Loan fee, transfer fee, signing on fee, agent fee and significant wages to attract him to move mean it is a big deal for a League One side.

 

Very debatable. If he was such a key player then I am sure they would have been desperate to keep him. Reports I heard at the time gave him very mixed reviews. He has failed to live up to my expectations if I am honest. As regards to transfer and signing on fees, that is all speculation as we have no idea of the finances involved.

 

You really think the money based on appearances is the reason he hasn't played? It was £125k upfront, with roughly the same again for appearances. A tiny figure! Dan Harding has been in better form, so Dickson hasn't been in the squad, it is as simple as that.

 

It is certainly a possibility and one explanation for why he has not even made the bench. Regardless, I think he was a pointless signing at the time and nothing has changed in that regard.

 

He has played nearly 100 games at Championship level, a high earner at Charlton and League One right back of last season. I doubt his wages, signing on fee or agent fee was cheap given he also cost £450k - a significant amount for a Football League transfer.

 

It is but nothing we couldn't afford and finance ourselves given our crowds and level of income IMO

 

Scored 10 goals from midfield at this level from central midfield, vice captain at a young age and tracked according to the media by clubs like Everton and Leeds.

 

At least it seems you may give him a chance. I hope...

 

Jury is out until we have seen him play but it is more of a gamble than a proven championship player, just the same way that someone like Seaborne is more of a gamble than Fonte.

 

____________________________

 

You continue to post comments like this, ignoring that Saints have already spent heavily on the squad in the last 20 months, so don't need to spend huge amounts. The squad is already largely in place. You also ignore other factors involved in deals such as agent fees, signing on fees etc. Significantly you also ignore the multi million pound upgrade to Staplewood.

 

Finally Lallana, signed and improved 4.5 year deal. He could have left in the summer and gone to a Premier League club. The club however showed him enough ambition and finance to back that ambition to get him to sign for 4.5 years.

 

Lallana signed and no doubt did well out of a deal but equally the club know that by signing him to a deal the value of the asset goes way up (and again, taking this into account is something they can justify even with the financial support of the Liebherr's reduced. With regards to the training ground, I have already speculated that this could have been greenlighted before the departure of Markus an thus the finance would be in place.

 

Now I have (again) adressed your points. Please do not repeat them again next week.

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Hypo also forgets that the gap in TV and money from the Football League between the Championship and League One is about £4 million per year (not to mention lower advertising, away crowds, sponsorship etc in League One).

 

Look at Saints player transfer net spend in the two seasons since the takeover and add the £8 million it would have had if in the Championship compared to League One for two years. You can then see just how much the club has been spending relative to those in the league above who have had the additional £4m each season.

 

Selling Chamberlin in the summer would more than cover that shortfall with just one transfer.

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Funny how people seem quick to write Dale off before he even plays a game for us... classic SWF!

 

He's young, he's not playing for a 'big' team, but that doesn't mean he's any less of a player than those who would've been available from teams higher up the leagues. He's a vital player for Oldham, he's their vice-captain, he's their set-piece taker and he's their top scorer. Their fans are gutted to lose him, and it sounds as if they think he's gone for good, which says something about them believing him to be good enough for an ambitious club like ours. He's filling a gap in our squad which was created by an injury and a suspension, and it's good to see that we've been making moves for players even if we haven't been hearing too much about it (the Oldham OS reporting that we made a move for him a week ago, which was rejected).

 

This is a good signing for us, and hopefully the lad can make a positive impact on our squad and help us push for automatic promotion.

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Funny how people seem quick to write Dale off before he even plays a game for us... classic SWF!

 

He's young, he's not playing for a 'big' team, but that doesn't mean he's any less of a player than those who would've been available from teams higher up the leagues. He's a vital player for Oldham, he's their vice-captain, he's their set-piece taker and he's their top scorer. Their fans are gutted to lose him, and it sounds as if they think he's gone for good, which says something about them believing him to be good enough for an ambitious club like ours. He's filling a gap in our squad which was created by an injury and a suspension, and it's good to see that we've been making moves for players even if we haven't been hearing too much about it (the Oldham OS reporting that we made a move for him a week ago, which was rejected).

 

This is a good signing for us, and hopefully the lad can make a positive impact on our squad and help us push for automatic promotion.

 

In fairness, no one I have seen has actually done that. Maybe one or two posters?

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Lallana signed and no doubt did well out of a deal but equally the club know that by signing him to a deal the value of the asset goes way up (and again, taking this into account is something they can justify even with the financial support of the Liebherr's reduced. With regards to the training ground, I have already speculated that this could have been greenlighted before the departure of Markus an thus the finance would be in place.

 

Now I have (again) adressed your points. Please do not repeat them again next week.

 

I thought Forte was very good when he came on against Charlton in the week, he can definitely do a job at this level and Adkins clearly rates him as he's signed him a few times now. Whether or not he's going to be a key player going forward is up in the air at the moment, but in the here and now he suits us just fine.

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I thought Forte was very good when he came on against Charlton in the week, he can definitely do a job at this level and Adkins clearly rates him as he's signed him a few times now. Whether or not he's going to be a key player going forward is up in the air at the moment, but in the here and now he suits us just fine.

 

I hope so, but all I was saying was that that remains to be seen.

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Taking this back on topic. ;)

 

For those wondering what Dale Stephens is like, where he plays, what foot he uses, is he any good etc etc.

 

If you use your Saints Player login/password, you can see the entire 90 minutes of the Oldham vs Sheffield Wednesday game from 2 weeks ago here...

 

http://www.swfc.co.uk/articles/20110310/first-half-oldham-v-owls_2264101_2312979/0,,10304~2312979~1,00.html

 

Dale Stephens is number 20.

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