Bahrain, not just another Pro Democracy rebellion?

[dubai_phil]

http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:becc502f-d220-4088-a51e-aeb781d296f8

 

It is a very small and pretty uninteresting place. It had a Grand Prix and a pretty lousy if cheap airline for flights to Aus & Asia.

 

They had an uprising and RIGHTLY - the majority of the population are Shia and have been "subjugated" by a non-democratic Sunni minority "Dictatorship" for a very long time.

 

The population have many legitimate grievances

 

However, this week the Bahraini's requested help from Saudi, UAE & Kuwait who have all sent in troops & Police.

 

This conflict may not hold the horrors of what will soon happen to PEOPLE in Libya, but for the Western world and your lifestyles, THIS is the "revolution" to worry about.

 

This is about a foothold for the Iranians into the oilfields of Saudi. The bulk of Saudi oil is the world's shortest (20 minute) international flight away.

 

The GCC states have been drawn in, the Americans have massive military bases in country and the UK has a Defence Treaty with the Bahraini Government, so in theory IF the Iranians decide to help their poor oppressed bretheren, UK PLC could be fighting another war.

 

The disaster in Japan will help to kill off the chance of Nuclear power, leaving the world reliant on oil & gas. This seemingly insignificant event is not JUST about democracy.

 

FWIW not being reported is that Shia militia had set up roadblocks and were dragging "non-Bahraini's" (ie Asians) from their cars and beating them while they went to work.

 

Bahrain has many troubles and their Government have been intransigent. But as Tim Marshall points out, this revolution could be about the future control of YOUR oil, your lighting and your lifestyles.

 

We should all be very concerned. Maybe the Mayans were right

Edited 15 March, 2011 by dubai_phil

[Verbal]

Equating the Shia-led but not exclusively Shia uprising in Bahrain with Iranians overrunning Saudi is the WORST kind of conspiratorial nonsense. It's the line of argument spouted by the truly awful Saudis - exporters not only of oil but of of terror on an industrial scale - and their corrupt regime to hoodwink the West into thinking the brutal suppression of the uprising in Bahrain is okay. Of course, this also suits your interests perfectly.

[aintforever]

I hope the Dictatorship are strung up, there is no place for undemocratic countries in the World today.

 

Thanks to the internet and mobile technology it's just a matter of time before dictatorships become a thing of the past.

[Saintandy666]

If we don't get off oil and gas, we are ****ed.

[Saint in Paradise]

Equating the Shia-led but not exclusively Shia uprising in Bahrain with Iranians overrunning Saudi is the WORST kind of conspiratorial nonsense. It's the line of argument spouted by the truly awful Saudis - exporters not only of oil but of of terror on an industrial scale - and their corrupt regime to hoodwink the West into thinking the brutal suppression of the uprising in Bahrain is okay. Of course, this also suits your interests perfectly.

 

Well I have read some rubbish on this website before but this has to be the very worst heap of rubbish ever.

Dear oh dear, it is even worse than some of the stuff Deppo and Dog post.

 

 

.

[dubai_phil]

Well I have read some rubbish on this website before but this has to be the very worst heap of rubbish ever.

Dear oh dear, it is even worse than some of the stuff Deppo and Dog post.

 

 

.

 

What some morons fail to understand is that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is split on religious sect lines. It is also split because of what is perceived by them to be their "Duty to Protect the Holy Sites of Islam".

 

So in Simplistic terms you have the Western Side centred around Jeddah with the main industrial concerns Trade & Commerce from the Ports. You have the centre Riyadh which is the home of Big Government. The Eastern Province centred on Dharran/Damman is the home of Big Oil & the Nationalised Aramco.

 

The Western Province is of course also home to Mecca & Medina the main holy sites of Islam so they are restrained but ensure that only "The Faithful" for example may enter Mecca (ie Kouni et al ain't going there on tours). The centre is the home of the "Royal Family" & Government Ministers. Anyone who understands this region knows that nothing gets done in that country without patronage from one of the Royal family members. I don't think I need say how crook that system is - just read up on BAe.

 

Then the East- the big Big Oil jobs go to Saudi's best friends The Yanks, and the "handpicked" Saudis are all there in their big offices (although SOME of them are very very good)

 

The PROBLEM in Sauid is that the majority of the population in this area are - yep Shia's, who look for Spiritual Leadership to the Ayatollahs. Again, as in Bahrain they are detached from the "true" current Saudi society and do not get the opportunities in Education or Employment.

 

So you have a fermenting discontent, especially amongst the Younger population who have little or no hope of a job (Sectarian society can make Racism look Saintly in terms of discrimination) So you have a disenfrachised Youth lectured by loonies at their Mosques and the world got 9/11 & the Iraq insurrection. Hell Osama was part of one of the chosen families and his gripe insn't ONLY with the West.

 

Bahrain was claimed by Iran since it was formed (By The Brits) and alongside it rests MOST of the world's best chance of secure supply of oil for the next 10/20 years, but on top of THERE sits a bunch of very badly treated people who want equality and want freedom, but want the Ayatollahs to lead them.

 

Iran cannot invade Saudi, their armed forces are far superior to the beaten up ex Soviet technology - Tornado's & Typhoons vs Mig 23 rip off's, but they don't need to, they can win by promoting Democracy - Iran Style.

 

Shame some posters don't read before looking like idiots

[dubai_phil]

I hope the Dictatorship are strung up, there is no place for undemocratic countries in the World today.

 

Thanks to the internet and mobile technology it's just a matter of time before dictatorships become a thing of the past.

 

Yes. But what happens when a "Democracy" is utterly Alien and wants to destroy YOUR Democracy? When a Religous Autocracy can gain ascendency on the back of Democracy as in Iran?

 

They have elections in Iran and (FWIW Zimbabwe) but that old mantra of be careful what you wish for.

 

The issue is NOT about my defending ANY of the regimes and my OP did not do that. What IS critical for YOUR future is managing the changes so that TRUE Democracy and Freedoms occur. Saudi run by a freely elected Abu Mousa or Rafsanjani? Think that may be a problem for the planet

[aintforever]

Who cares what muslim sh!t hole of a country sells us their oil?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Despite the risks I just think the West should let them get on with it. We've got a dreadful record of influence, interference and indeed invasion, I fear we'd make things worse. The obvious example being the Iraq War but going back a bit further: would Iran be such a ****ed up place and so anti-West if we hadn't have helped prop up the Shah and then backed Saddam during the bloody Iran/Iraq War?

[dubai_phil]

Who cares what muslim sh!t hole of a country sells us their oil?

 

Nobody.

 

The issue is IF they decide to sell it all at a discount to their new best friends in say China because they cancel their Nuke plants.

 

Let's see how it could go.

 

Stop giving money to support the Israelis or we turn off the oil taps, OK no prob for Blightey, but the Yanks & their Politics... It is a point worth having in the back of the mind, that's all

[dubai_phil]

Despite the risks I just think the West should let them get on with it. We've got a dreadful record of influence, interference and indeed invasion, I fear we'd make things worse. The obvious example being the Iraq War but going back a bit further: would Iran be such a ****ed up place and so anti-West if we hadn't have helped prop up the Shah and then backed Saddam during the bloody Iran/Iraq War?

 

Totally agree, ANY sign of getting involved becomes a problem, In Libya the best solution is to get the Security council to ask the Arab League to enforce a no fly zone.

 

Bahrain IS a problem because the UK has a binding defence treaty, that could be an unholy nightmare of having to send troops under International Law to quell an uprising, hence my point at the beginning

[aintforever]

Nobody.

 

The issue is IF they decide to sell it all at a discount to their new best friends in say China because they cancel their Nuke plants.

 

Let's see how it could go.

 

Stop giving money to support the Israelis or we turn off the oil taps, OK no prob for Blightey, but the Yanks & their Politics... It is a point worth having in the back of the mind, that's all

 

I get what you're saying but the West cannot dictate how the middle east is run just so it suits us. If Iran wants to sell to China at a reduced rate that's up to them, so is their policy on Israel.

 

Maybe we will be worse off at the end of it, hey ho, that's life. Just build some ****ing windmills.

[Verbal]

What some morons fail to understand is that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is split on religious sect lines. It is also split because of what is perceived by them to be their "Duty to Protect the Holy Sites of Islam".

 

So in Simplistic terms you have the Western Side centred around Jeddah with the main industrial concerns Trade & Commerce from the Ports. You have the centre Riyadh which is the home of Big Government. The Eastern Province centred on Dharran/Damman is the home of Big Oil & the Nationalised Aramco.

 

The Western Province is of course also home to Mecca & Medina the main holy sites of Islam so they are restrained but ensure that only "The Faithful" for example may enter Mecca (ie Kouni et al ain't going there on tours). The centre is the home of the "Royal Family" & Government Ministers. Anyone who understands this region knows that nothing gets done in that country without patronage from one of the Royal family members. I don't think I need say how crook that system is - just read up on BAe.

 

Then the East- the big Big Oil jobs go to Saudi's best friends The Yanks, and the "handpicked" Saudis are all there in their big offices (although SOME of them are very very good)

 

The PROBLEM in Sauid is that the majority of the population in this area are - yep Shia's, who look for Spiritual Leadership to the Ayatollahs. Again, as in Bahrain they are detached from the "true" current Saudi society and do not get the opportunities in Education or Employment.

 

So you have a fermenting discontent, especially amongst the Younger population who have little or no hope of a job (Sectarian society can make Racism look Saintly in terms of discrimination) So you have a disenfrachised Youth lectured by loonies at their Mosques and the world got 9/11 & the Iraq insurrection. Hell Osama was part of one of the chosen families and his gripe insn't ONLY with the West.

 

Bahrain was claimed by Iran since it was formed (By The Brits) and alongside it rests MOST of the world's best chance of secure supply of oil for the next 10/20 years, but on top of THERE sits a bunch of very badly treated people who want equality and want freedom, but want the Ayatollahs to lead them.

 

Iran cannot invade Saudi, their armed forces are far superior to the beaten up ex Soviet technology - Tornado's & Typhoons vs Mig 23 rip off's, but they don't need to, they can win by promoting Democracy - Iran Style.

 

Shame some posters don't read before looking like idiots

 

Your gross distortions of the situation in Saudi have nothing, I suppose, to do with self interest. And you are pushing the orthodox Saudi line about the threat from the Iranians coming from the Shia, who are constantly having their heads broken by the regimes in Saudi and Bahrain. It's all a self-serving, utterly corrupt argument. It comes to something when official Saudi propaganda gets punted out on random English football forums as if it were gospel (no pun intended) truth.

[Verbal]

Well I have read some rubbish on this website before but this has to be the very worst heap of rubbish ever.

Dear oh dear, it is even worse than some of the stuff Deppo and Dog post.

 

 

.

 

Oh you're right. You're carefully argued rebuttal demonstrates beyond doubt that the Saudi rulers, far from being sponsors of violently Islamist cults, are in fact Ipanema Beach liberals.

[badgerx16]

What IS critical for YOUR future is managing the changes so that TRUE Democracy and Freedoms occur. Saudi run by a freely elected Abu Mousa or Rafsanjani? Think that may be a problem for the planet

But that would be democratic. And if the elections were (1) free and fair, and (2) open to all, then they would be more democratic than either the UK or the USofA can manage.

[dubai_phil]

But that would be democratic. And if the elections were (1) free and fair, and (2) open to all, then they would be more democratic than either the UK or the USofA can manage.

 

Lol absolutely.

 

You guys will be living in the dark but it was more democratic than Dubya & Dave so everything is ok

[dubai_phil]

Oh you're right. You're carefully argued rebuttal demonstrates beyond doubt that the Saudi rulers, far from being sponsors of violently Islamist cults, are in fact Ipanema Beach liberals.

 

Wahibism is a violent & extreme branch of Islam.

 

The most violent and extreme practioners of which were even rejected by the Saudi Government ( who support it), those extreme preachers were harrased, arrested and tortured. But they didn't need to worry, your taxes are now paying their social security benefits in the UK after they became Asylum seekers and they spread their evil version of Islam to the disaffected youth of the UK.

 

Notice any similarity? Disaffected Sects and mainly youth in the UK, Saudi, Bahrain?

 

The SIMPLE point being missed here but which IS critical is that these people in ALL these countries MUST have their rights and aspirations recognised and they MUST be given hope and route to "success and fullfillment" in their lives. Because if they do NOT get that, then they turn to the first person that offers a false version to them, and they can trade education and a career in Capitalism for their 70 or whatever Virgins...

[Verbal]

Wahibism is a violent & extreme branch of Islam.

 

The most violent and extreme practioners of which were even rejected by the Saudi Government ( who support it), those extreme preachers were harrased, arrested and tortured. But they didn't need to worry, your taxes are now paying their social security benefits in the UK after they became Asylum seekers and they spread their evil version of Islam to the disaffected youth of the UK.

 

Notice any similarity? Disaffected Sects and mainly youth in the UK, Saudi, Bahrain?

 

The SIMPLE point being missed here but which IS critical is that these people in ALL these countries MUST have their rights and aspirations recognised and they MUST be given hope and route to "success and fullfillment" in their lives. Because if they do NOT get that, then they turn to the first person that offers a false version to them, and they can trade education and a career in Capitalism for their 70 or whatever Virgins...

 

When you and the odd little friend you seem to have recruited into the King Abdullah Fan Club have finished, why don't you put some evidence on your hysterical little theory?

 

From Mubarak to Abdullah and Gaddafi, it's been the staple PR lie peddled to the West by every self-serving tyrant facing unrest from a citizenry demanding democratic rights, that they are defending the West's 'real' interests by breaking the heads of the street protestors. Equating popular demands for equal rights with a triumph for al Qaeda, the Iranians, or any other boogey man that happens to be at hand, is, at best, dishonest.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

When you and the odd little friend you seem to have recruited into the King Abdullah Fan Club have finished, why don't you put some evidence on your hysterical little theory?

 

From Mubarak to Abdullah and Gaddafi, it's been the staple PR lie peddled to the West by every self-serving tyrant facing unrest from a citizenry demanding democratic rights, that they are defending the West's 'real' interests by breaking the heads of the street protestors. Equating popular demands for equal rights with a triumph for al Qaeda, the Iranians, or any other boogey man that happens to be at hand, is, at best, dishonest.

 

Iran was behind much of the roadside bombs that forced us out of Basra and now they are supplying the Taliban. You are very naive to ignore their influence as mere pr.

[Verbal]

Iran was behind much of the roadside bombs that forced us out of Basra and now they are supplying the Taliban. You are very naive to ignore their influence as mere pr.

 

Again, this slips by the point. Where's the evidence that the street protestors in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi, Tunisia and Yemen are al Qaeda/the Iranians/Smersh in disguise. It's what the corrupt plutocrats peddle and is a notorious lie. What's your defence? Apparently because the Iranians had their hooks in Basra (which they certainly did), you opt for non-sequitur argument that therefore they MUST, just HAVE TO BE, behind the protests in Bahrain.

 

What's your evidence? Really - I'd love to know.

[hutch]

In Libya the best solution is to get the Security council to ask the Arab League to enforce a no fly zone.

Can't agree with you on that one, Phil.

 

The game in Libya changed from the Tunisia/Egypt scenario when the peaceful protesters took up arms and started what is, in effect, an internal civil war against the ruling authority.

 

The UN probably has some legitimacy in intervention to prevent armed state aggression against peaceful protesters, but not in my view to create a military advantage for one armed domestic "army" against another, despite the inequality.

 

It was a mistake the great man Ghandi didn't make.

 

I think the UN has got it right this time, for a change, despite the wishes of Britain & France.

 

I do, however, agree with your underlying sentiments on Bahrain. It's about discrimination (apartheid if you like), and the nepotism that goes with it, hiding behind religion. Just like Israel and Northern Ireland.

[Sheaf Saint]

A friend of mine has family in Bahrain and from what she can gather the situation is very bad over there right now. This is what she messaged me this morning....

 

There are gangs of people that most people think and are pretty certain, have been planted by the govt to cause fear amongst people and make it look like the protesters are fighting back so then the govt can shoot the protesters. These 'gang' members are going into the villages and attacking people, so these village people defend themselves and then the 'official' police shoot at the villagers. Some of these 'gang' members were wounded and got taken to the hospital and the doctors found ID cards to show that these gang members worked for the govt!!

 

While I find it shocking that any regime could resort to these measures, it sadly does not surprise me if these reports are true.

[Viking Warrior]

Verbal

 

I have now come to the conclusion that you spout nothing but ****e. Dubai puts a coherent and sensible post on this thread and you pour total scorn on it. Have you ever been to any Of the UAE countries? if you had then you would have understood where he is comming from.

 

I am somewhat suprised about Bahrein as the last time I was their it was a very westernised and democratic society. I do worry about the iranians being involved.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Verbal

 

I have now come to the conclusion that you spout nothing but ****e. Dubai puts a coherent and sensible post on this thread and you pour total scorn on it. Have you ever been to any Of the UAE countries? if you had then you would have understood where he is comming from.

 

I am somewhat suprised about Bahrein as the last time I was their it was a very westernised and democratic society. I do worry about the iranians being involved.

 

Mmmm, more democratic than some but not exactly democratic - 80% of the cabinet are members of the Royal Family and one of the two houses of parliament is appointed by the King. The Prime Minister is the King's uncle. The other house is elected by universal suffrage but only nationals are eligible to vote - over half the population are foreign guest workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain

[Verbal]

Verbal

 

I have now come to the conclusion that you spout nothing but ****e. Dubai puts a coherent and sensible post on this thread and you pour total scorn on it. Have you ever been to any Of the UAE countries? if you had then you would have understood where he is comming from.

 

I am somewhat suprised about Bahrein as the last time I was their it was a very westernised and democratic society. I do worry about the iranians being involved.

 

I'm sure all your conclusions make perfect sense to you. My 'total scorn', as you put it, is that DP is peddling the official line on the Bahrain protestors. Anyone who'd been there and got underneath the skin of the country would know that the shia have been dumped on for decades. But what's going on there ISN'T merely an inter-sectarian battle - it's the same issue as elsewhere in the Arab world. Decades of corrupt tyranny are coming, hopefully, to an end. Of course, the tyrants themselves want you to believe that the Iranians, al Qaeda, etc., are motivating it all. It is self-serving nonsense, which DP retails here as 'fact'.

 

Read Bexy's post for a more compelling, first-hand insight into the nature of the struggle there.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Again, this slips by the point. Where's the evidence that the street protestors in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi, Tunisia and Yemen are al Qaeda/the Iranians/Smersh in disguise. It's what the corrupt plutocrats peddle and is a notorious lie. What's your defence? Apparently because the Iranians had their hooks in Basra (which they certainly did), you opt for non-sequitur argument that therefore they MUST, just HAVE TO BE, behind the protests in Bahrain.

 

What's your evidence? Really - I'd love to know.

 

I do not have a clue about Egypt and Tunisia but I know that the war in Afghanistan stepped up a gear after the Irans upped their input. I would say it is likely that they are helping their shia brothers in Bahrain. You are being very naive and seem to forget that the Iranian Gov despises the West.b They blamed us for stirring up their own discontent and no I have no evidence buit I bet we did!

[Verbal]

I do not have a clue about Egypt and Tunisia but I know that the war in Afghanistan stepped up a gear after the Irans upped their input. I would say it is likely that they are helping their shia brothers in Bahrain. You are being very naive and seem to forget that the Iranian Gov despises the West.b They blamed us for stirring up their own discontent and no I have no evidence buit I bet we did!

 

Again, where's the EVIDENCE? Conspiracy theories are all very well (actually they're not - they're the product of febrile minds with nothing better to do), but they don't have any necessary connection with reality.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Again, where's the EVIDENCE? Conspiracy theories are all very well (actually they're not - they're the product of febrile minds with nothing better to do), but they don't have any necessary connection with reality.

 

It is common knowledge in military circles. Why do you think that the Americans keep jumpiong up and down about Iran - because they know damn well what Iran is funding.

[Thedelldays]

It is common knowledge in military circles. Why do you think that the Americans keep jumpiong up and down about Iran - because they know damn well what Iran is funding.

 

this is true

[dubai_phil]

this is true

 

Yeah, like the missiles that the special forces found in Afghanistan which had been well "camouflaged" came from where? And the Iranian Navy dock in Lattakia and a few days later the Israelis sieze a ship bound for Gaza loaded with what exactly?

 

A great deal of Iranians want to have Democracy as well, but tend to get stoned, hung or simply or tortured for even thinking about it.

[Verbal]

Yeah, like the missiles that the special forces found in Afghanistan which had been well "camouflaged" came from where? And the Iranian Navy dock in Lattakia and a few days later the Israelis sieze a ship bound for Gaza loaded with what exactly?

 

A great deal of Iranians want to have Democracy as well, but tend to get stoned, hung or simply or tortured for even thinking about it.

 

The Iranian navy docking in Lattakia (a place I know rather well) has nothing to do with the popular uprising in Bahrain. Again, for the xxth time, where's your evidence that the democratic street protestors in Bahrain are the work of al Qeada, the Iranians or any other monster the Arab tyrants say are behind it?

 

Of course, the Iranians are meddling in southern Iraq and southern Lebanon in particular, but to discredit the street protestors in Bahrain by drawing inferences based on nothing more than a convenient conspiracy theory is simply dishonest - to say the very least.

[dubai_phil]

Mmmm, more democratic than some but not exactly democratic - 80% of the cabinet are members of the Royal Family and one of the two houses of parliament is appointed by the King. The Prime Minister is the King's uncle. The other house is elected by universal suffrage but only nationals are eligible to vote - over half the population are foreign guest workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain

 

Simple facts. (ie Simplistic)

 

Bahrain is a grossly unfair society.

 

The Sunni's get the (bulk of) the jobs in Government & Military.

 

Their brothers, cousins & uncles run the companies that supply that market.

 

Those companies employ ex-pats mainly Asians with a sprinkling of Western Senior Management

 

It is a small Island with fading Oil Resources

 

It relies on "Tourists" crossing the Causeway for R&R at weekends from Saudi. (ie huge number of Hooker bars)

 

It has a close knit almost village life style for the expat community unlike the bling of New Dubai.

 

The SUNNI minority get ALL the riches, the SHIA MAJORITY are excluded from the rich pickings and are reduced to menial work such as taxi drivers (who must all be Bahraini) or Fishermen.

 

So a simplistic precis.

 

They Shias have been pushing for reforms since forever, riots have happened along with deaths going back 20 years but are swiftly put down. The rulers HAVE introduced minimal concessions. They have been TOO slow.

 

So now they have a double whammy. The "wave of uprisings" have given impetus to the idea that the downtrodden underclass can now rebel.

That is a good thing.

 

BUT. Influence from outside AS I POSTED IN THE TIM MARSHALL BLOG is recognised. Iran has laid claim to Bahrain since forever. Iran & Saudi HATE each other as Iran believes the Saudi's & their version of Islam is offensive and they should NOT be allowed to secure the Holy Sites of Islam. Iran has a HISTORY of siezing land (and oil reserves) The Lesser & Greater Tuns Islands from the UAE were invaded some 17 years ago. Not to mention the high number of sunken oil tankers in the Straights of Hormus which Iran claims BOTH sides of. (ie controlling the transportation of ALL of the oil from the Eastern Province to the West)

 

These factors are why the US Navy selected Bahrain to base it's 5th Fleet. It is why UK maintains the Armilla Patrol

 

Now Bahrain's PROBLEM is that they delayed reforms - yes they have been BAD PEOPLE (for our simpleton friends).

 

But NOW they are being hit with a double whammy (as Tim Marshall has also pointed out). The "Pro-Democracy movement" is being manipulated, it is being led by CLERICS. Guess where those Shia clerics have had their training support and the like from - it is easy - Roman Catholic Clergy get their support & information from? Yes Rome. Shia Clerics get their support and information from?

 

Now the FINAL piece of the jigsaw is this.

 

Where did the FIRST "Arab World" "Social Media" Uprising take place?

Where did Facebook Groups tell people to take to the streets in (often) Violent protests?

 

No, it was NOT Tunisia, it was in Iran. Most of the ringleaders have long since been arrested tortured shot or hung. But guess what they told all their interogators during their last days? yes, they told them how they had used Social Media to ALMOST cause a revolution in Iran.

 

The Bahraini Royal Family have been fools. the Kuwaitis have also dragged their feet. However the GCC States understand the deeper significance and that is why they have all acted to send in the troops. They had NO choice. And while the Yanks may be publicly condeming this and calling for restraint guess where the NSA information team are based. Guess what type of technology they have been buying of late.

 

Oh and from that it doesn't take a conspiracist to have a fair idea of where they are sending that information.

 

There are bad democracies and bad dictatorships. UK doesn't have an "elected" Prime Minister at the moment and let's not mention the basket case that is Belgium.

 

Bahrain have got it very wrong, but only simpletons would believe it is another Egypt or Tunisia

[aintforever]

I don't see why the Shia's of Iran shouldn't help their fellow Shia's in Bahrain - nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Obviously the Iranian form of democracy is not what anyone wants but that doesn't mean the people of Bahrain should not have the CHANCE of a proper democracy.

 

How can it be right to stop them having any hope of democracy just because there is a chance it turns out bad?

[Viking Warrior]

Verbal are you saying that the current Iranian government are not a corrupt tyranny ?

I seem to recollect those opposed to the current incumbants try to rebel , but were soon put down in more horrific ways than you can imagine. Now that is media speculation but Im pretty sure Mr A would not have asked them to go back to their homes like nice little boys and girls.

 

Its been a while since I was in Bahrain but I enjoyed the life and freedom when i was there

If you take iraq Shias dislike sunnis and vice versa but lets not let that get in the way of the debate

 

In iraq Sunnis decapitated their victims the shias didnt but their methods of killing are far more barbaric. I could describe how they kill but i will not

Point is if it is about islamic groups then the shias are far worse in my humble opinion

[dubai_phil]

I don't see why the Shia's of Iran shouldn't help their fellow Shia's in Bahrain - nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Obviously the Iranian form of democracy is not what anyone wants but that doesn't mean the people of Bahrain should not have the CHANCE of a proper democracy.

 

How can it be right to stop them having any hope of democracy just because there is a chance it turns out bad?

 

 

Nobody, including me has said it is bad in fact I have been TRYING to point out that the mess is because the Bahrainis have fecked up Human RIGHTS, not democracy alone. Now they have to give them both.

 

And like you said, who gives a damn if Democracy turns out to be like that in Iran or Zimbabwe. They got what they asked for.

 

But to try and espouse that allowing a REGIME that tortures people and stones people to death for having sex outside marriage to have a FREE reign to spread their beliefs is (IMHO) PC gone mad.

 

OK so they get Rafsanjani as their President, lucky them they will be happy as that is what they want.

 

The down side is you'll be paying 5 pound a litre for your petrol because you haven't forced the Americans to stop supporting "the evil Israelis"

 

Of course they could always choose a North Korean version.

 

This is the point the Bahrainis MUST now give concessions. BUT they must also stop contagion. Which is the point, no matter WHAT they do, they are screwed.

 

The final Geo Political issue. UK has (declining but available) reserves of Gas in the North Sea. The rest of the world relys on a huge Gas Field (the Dolphin Field) which exports LPG around the world.

 

Nuclear energy ain't going nowhere for the next X years after Japan which means that China and India need to increase their production of power by using Oil & Gas.

 

Where do Qatar's gas Fields lie?

 

Yep in between them and Bahrain, one step at a time and the lights go out

[Verbal]

Verbal are you saying that the current Iranian government are not a corrupt tyranny ?

I seem to recollect those opposed to the current incumbants try to rebel , but were soon put down in more horrific ways than you can imagine. Now that is media speculation but Im pretty sure Mr A would not have asked them to go back to their homes like nice little boys and girls.

 

Its been a while since I was in Bahrain but I enjoyed the life and freedom when i was there

If you take iraq Shias dislike sunnis and vice versa but lets not let that get in the way of the debate

 

In iraq Sunnis decapitated their victims the shias didnt but their methods of killing are far more barbaric. I could describe how they kill but i will not

Point is if it is about islamic groups then the shias are far worse in my humble opinion

 

First of all, by what twisted, bizarre thought process did you think i was defending the Iranian regime?!

 

As for the rest, even your apparent experience of actually going there didn't cure you of thinking, at best, in stereotypes. If it suits your limitations to imagine this purely in tribal terms, I can see why hard evidence wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to you - and why you'd think it completely unnecessary. The equation, it seems, in your mind is simple enough: many (not all) on the streets in Bahrain are Shia; a Shia theocratic regime is barbaric; therefore the street demonstrators and their demands for democracy are in fact demanding Shia tyranny. George Orwell wrote about this painfully stupid logic decades ago.

 

Again - and I'm losing count of the number of times I've asked you and your swivel-eyed mates - where's the EVIDENCE?

 

The Shia community in Bahrain, as it is in many other countries (like Pakistan for example) is pretty diverse, and actually includes many of the more dynamic in the business community. (This is one of the reasons they are persecuted by Sunni fundamentalists who are partly playing a populist card). The demand for serious democratic reform is widespread in Bahrain and crosses the sectarian divide. The regime, which has persecuted the majority Shia community for decades, is effectively playing the boogey-man card in order to justify a fierce crackdown. All very predictable, and no one with an ounce of common sense would buy such self-serving crap. The only ones who do - what are surprise - are such people as parasitic ex-pats who suddenly see their comfy lives disrupted by these nasty people demanding a modicum of political freedom.

 

So, once again, WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

First of all, by what twisted, bizarre thought process did you think i was defending the Iranian regime?!

 

As for the rest, even your apparent experience of actually going there didn't cure you of thinking, at best, in stereotypes. If it suits your limitations to imagine this purely in tribal terms, I can see why hard evidence wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to you - and why you'd think it completely unnecessary. The equation, it seems, in your mind is simple enough: many (not all) on the streets in Bahrain are Shia; a Shia theocratic regime is barbaric; therefore the street demonstrators and their demands for democracy are in fact demanding Shia tyranny. George Orwell wrote about this painfully stupid logic decades ago.

 

Again - and I'm losing count of the number of times I've asked you and your swivel-eyed mates - where's the EVIDENCE?

 

The Shia community in Bahrain, as it is in many other countries (like Pakistan for example) is pretty diverse, and actually includes many of the more dynamic in the business community. (This is one of the reasons they are persecuted by Sunni fundamentalists who are partly playing a populist card). The demand for serious democratic reform is widespread in Bahrain and crosses the sectarian divide. The regime, which has persecuted the majority Shia community for decades, is effectively playing the boogey-man card in order to justify a fierce crackdown. All very predictable, and no one with an ounce of common sense would buy such self-serving crap. The only ones who do - what are surprise - are such people as parasitic ex-pats who suddenly see their comfy lives disrupted by these nasty people demanding a modicum of political freedom.

 

So, once again, WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?

 

Sometimes Sherlock Verbal you have to think out of the box

[dubai_phil]

So, once again, WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?

 

The OP

 

http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:becc502f-d220-4088-a51e-aeb781d296f8

[dubai_phil]

Robert Gates

 

http://www.stripes.com/gates-protracted-bahrain-negotiations-allowing-greater-iran-influence-1.137532

[dubai_phil]

Oh and of course the history lessons

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article737706.ece

 

But of course simpleton innernet warriors never research only rant

 

Iran is playing in many Middle East backyards, most notably in Iraq (through the various Shia political parties and militias that take their orders from Tehran), Lebanon (through the Iranian-funded Hezbollah movement) and the Palestinian territories (through Hamas, a Sunni group that turned to Iran for help when faced by a crippling Western boycott). But it's tiny Bahrain where Iran arguably wields the most influence, and where Tehran might first try to demonstrate its new clout if a showdown with the United States and its Arab allies becomes inevitable.

[Verbal]

The OP

 

http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:becc502f-d220-4088-a51e-aeb781d296f8

 

Did you actually READ that report? It says nothing of the sort. It says: 'The Saudis say...' and goes on to say Iranian military intervention is unlikely.

[dubai_phil]

Oh look even the NY Times which someone says they actually read for their news coverage has an article on it

 

http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/as-arab-world-shakes-iran%E2%80%99s-influence-grows-nytimes-com/

 

I think the Saudis are worried that they’re encircled — Iraq, Syria, Lebanon; Yemen is unstable; Bahrain is very uncertain,” said Alireza Nader, an expert in international affairs with the RAND Corporation. “They worry that the region is ripe for Iranian exploitation. Iran has shown that it is very capable of taking advantage of regional instability.”

“Iran is the big winner here,” said a regional adviser to the United States government who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

[Verbal]

Oh and of course the history lessons

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/article737706.ece

 

But of course simpleton innernet warriors never research only rant

 

If you were in Tehran during the Egyptian uprising, you'd have heard nightly reports from Government television and radio loudly proclaiming the wonders of the Egyptian revolution. It doesn't mean that the Iranians were behind the Egyptian protests. (Or would you make such a foolish claim? Perhaps I should wait and see...and laugh) It does mean that the Iranian regime thought they were playing a populist card - which in fact backfired. It stirred up the repressed remnants of the Green Revolution, and suddenly there were protesters bravely facing down the basiji thugs on the streets of Tehran)

 

The CRAZY thing about the situation in Bahrain is that the absurd rulers are so limited in options and political intelligence that instead of acceding to demands for democratisation and quelling the demonstrations with genuine and much needed reform, they are creating a situation which is so polarised ANYTHING could happen. I wouldn't expect you, in your colonial, parasitic eerie, to understand this or any other of the byzantine subtleties of Middle Eastern politics for a second. That you blunder into such profoundly anti-democratic PR at the drop of a dirham is, depressingly no surprise. Maybe it'll be rials soon.

 

Again, WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?

[View From The Top]

 

So, once again, WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE?

 

Where is yours?

 

Like other posters you are stating nothing but an opinion. Acting like a prize c*ck, as is your want, makes it no more valid than any other persons opinion.

 

Perhaps your insight, which I accept is rounded in the main, would be better accepted by the majority if you weren't a pr1ck all of the time.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Where is yours?

 

Like other posters you are stating nothing but an opinion. Acting like a prize c*ck, as is your want, makes it no more valid than any other persons opinion.

 

Perhaps your insight, which I accept is rounded in the main, would be better accepted by the majority if you weren't a pr1ck all of the time.

 

Don't sit on the fence vftt

[Verbal]

Oh look even the NY Times which someone says they actually read for their news coverage has an article on it

 

http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/as-arab-world-shakes-iran%E2%80%99s-influence-grows-nytimes-com/

 

Oh look, you miss the point again!! I love the way you quote irrelevancies to try and prove your point. I realise this is incredibly subtle for you, and that there is little chance the following will get over the Hoover-dam scale of your limitations (economic and otherwise), but...

 

Whatever the Iranians do or don't do is one thing. What is presently happening on the streets of Bahrain is quite another. The two will only collide if the stupidity continues, and both the regime and the protesters lose out.

 

So once more: WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THE PROTESTERS ARE DOING THE IRANIANS' BIDDING?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Oh look, you miss the point again!! I love the way you quote irrelevancies to try and prove your point. I realise this is incredibly subtle for you, and that there is little chance the following will get over the Hoover-dam scale of your limitations (economic and otherwise), but...

 

Whatever the Iranians do or don't do is one thing. What is presently happening on the streets of Bahrain is quite another. The two will only collide if the stupidity continues, and both the regime and the protesters lose out.

 

So once more: WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THE PROTESTERS ARE DOING THE IRANIANS' BIDDING?

 

What's your hunch Verbal?

[dubai_phil]

Oh look, you miss the point again!! I love the way you quote irrelevancies to try and prove your point. I realise this is incredibly subtle for you, and that there is little chance the following will get over the Hoover-dam scale of your limitations (economic and otherwise), but...

 

Whatever the Iranians do or don't do is one thing. What is presently happening on the streets of Bahrain is quite another. The two will only collide if the stupidity continues, and both the regime and the protesters lose out.

 

So once more: WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE THAT THE PROTESTERS ARE DOING THE IRANIANS' BIDDING?

 

And the leaders of the protests are whom? the spokespeople are whom?

 

And where have I said that the PROTESTERS are being manipulated or are wrong?

 

The Haq party is a formalised structure of multiple sects who have been campaigning RIGHTLY for some 20+ years

 

However there are also a bunch of rent a mob Shia Clerics who have also stepped forward.

 

The demands of the Haq party & Al Wefaq who proceeded them are similar to all that I have posted.

 

The issue is as per the OP based on the comment by Tim Marshall. Verbal - congratulations on proving what I had worked out some time ago.

 

 

But don't worry. My Layzee recliner will still be working down here after all you lot have your Power Cuts & 3 day week energy rationing.

 

And Sergei - never ask an innernet warrior for a PROPOSAL? they only have NO opinion.

[Saint in Paradise]

I see verbal is still posting rubbish then - I take it as a compliment that he

thinks that I am D-Ps "odd little friend you seem to have recruited into the King Abdullah Fan Club"

[Sheaf Saint]

Just another couple of snippets from a long message I got from my friend earlier (her father's family are all Bahraini and most still live there so she has some inside knowledge of sorts)...

 

 

...I think that the Saudi govt are putting pressure on the Bahrain govt to sort it all out. The Prime Minister is a ****** and loves the Saudi's so is letting all this happen. It seems the only decent person in the Royal Family is the Crown Prince who isnt wanting any of this **** to happen...

 

...thats what they [The Bahraini royal family] are ****ting themselves about is losing the power. But thats the thing, the Bahraini people never wanted to get rid of the Royal family, they just want an elected parliament. And the other day the crown prince was in talks with 7 leaders from the opposition parties so we all thought, great, something is finally getting sorted and then the Saudi troops came in and then they announced martial law!!

 

 

I think this puts to bed any debate about the whole thing being staged by Iran. This comes directly from people indigenous to the country (not ex-pats, importantly) and shows that it is simply a case of the common people deciding they have had enbough of the corruption and oppression and standing up for their human rights.

Edited 16 March, 2011 by Sheaf Saint