Thedelldays Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 dean hammond got 6 goals last season...he already has that (according to wiki)...morgan is short by 1 lol chappers has a couple.....lallana has been injured for large parts...dont know how OxO compares to antonio
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 CMS aside, I would have any of our offensive players over Peterborough's. I wouldn't. They have scored loads more than us.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Re Howard: obviously a talented passer, but is he mobile enough in a 4-4-2?
Thedelldays Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I wouldn't. They have scored loads more than us. and let in loads more too..and should we win our games in hand, would still be below us.. odd
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 what the hell are you on about..we have scored the 3rd most goals in the league and have been very mean at the back...very much so at home.. dear christ Being third best in this league is pontless if it means we finish first. We need to finish top two and should be aiming for signings to confirm this.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I wouldn't. They have scored loads more than us. So taking out Mackail-Smith and Lambert you would let them have Lallana, Barnard, Chamberlain and we had Boyd and 2 of their midfielders?
Thedelldays Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Being third best in this league is pontless if it means we finish first. We need to finish top two and should be aiming for signings to confirm this. well, they have scored the most and are not top........more to the game that just goals
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 and let in loads more too..and should we win our games in hand, would still be below us.. odd We were talking about offensive players, nothing to do with defense. Please learn to read.
derry Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 He would get paid his full current contract either way, just a question of how much the two clubs split the costs. Never heard of a player getting loaned out and receiving a lower salary whilst still having a valid contract at the parent club. I get the feeling at the moment that Reading aren't interested in letting him play for somebody else and still paying some of his wages. They are quite happy for him to be available to them. I think it's a case we pay him or it doesn't happen. Either way we haven't pursued it yet and maybe don't intend to.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 So taking out Mackail-Smith and Lambert you would let them have Lallana, Barnard, Chamberlain and we had Boyd and 2 of their midfielders? No, you said I wouldn't have ANY of their offensive players over ours. If we are talking purely offensive then they have been better this year.
Thedelldays Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 We were talking about offensive players, nothing to do with defense. Please learn to read. do you not think that their style (in flying forward) tends to allow their strikers to score more goals.?
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 How many were signed this season? I mean in terms of improving the first 11. 3 new this season 7 new last 2 with us before that. Hardly team that either needs to spend more or one slow in signing players
Window Cleaner Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Re Howard: obviously a talented passer, but is he mobile enough in a 4-4-2? We'd hae difficulty fitting him in anyway, he has no defensive qualities at all (well if you believe Reading's fans forums anyway) and we are flush with offensive midfielders. You'd have to put him in instead of Chaplow and then if Deano had one of his lesser days you would be completely exposed.Reading use a a system with 2 hard tacking and mobile CMs with 2 wide OMs in front of them, Howard doesn't fit into this system (seemingly) because his tackling is said to be woeful.They can't feed those wide men (don't we rely on 2 wide men as well?) if the CMs can't tackle and obtain the ball so BH seems surplus to requirements there and would be here as well. Now next season when Ox is gone may be he could fit into our Morgan/Chappers/A N Other/Adam midfield but right now it wouldn't be any advance on where we are now, just anouth 10K a week sat on the bench, be it he or Chappers.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 3 new this season 7 new last 2 with us before that. Hardly team that either needs to spend more or one slow in signing players Please read it again. How man were signed THIS SEASON (so your second and third comment is irrelevant) I mean in terms of IMPROVING THE FIRST 11 (So only Butterfield and Chaplow then.)
derry Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Re Howard: obviously a talented passer, but is he mobile enough in a 4-4-2? Every time I've seen him play he looks a class act. Certainly better than anybody we've got here. It's all about providing an end product and that is what he is good at. He puts the ball into dangerous areas which we don't do nearly quickly enough.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 We'd hae difficulty fitting him in anyway, he has no defensive qualities at all (well if you believe Reading's fans forums anyway) and we are flush with offensive midfielders. You'd have to put him in instead of Chaplow and then if Deano had one of his lesser days you would be completely exposed.Reading use a a system with 2 hard tacking and mobile CMs with 2 wide OMs in front of them, Howard doesn't fit into this system (seemingly) because his tackling is said to be woeful.They can't feed those wide men (don't we rely on 2 wide men as well?) if the CMs can't tackle and obtain the ball so BH seems surplus to requirements there and would be here as well. Now next season when Ox is gone may be he could fit into our Morgan/Chappers/A N Other/Adam midfield but right now it wouldn't be ay advance onwhere we are now, just anouth 10K a week sat on the bench, be it he or Chappers. Exactly what I was getting at. We play with Lallana and Chamberlain playing very offensively and two strikers. Perhaps a more mobile passing player in the Schneiderlin style is what we need, like Frimpong the young Arsenal player.
Chez Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I get the feeling at the moment that Reading aren't interested in letting him play for somebody else and still paying some of his wages. They are quite happy for him to be available to them. I think it's a case we pay him or it doesn't happen. Either way we haven't pursued it yet and maybe don't intend to. So we want a loan, they want a transfer deal. There is therefore nothing to negotiate between the two clubs and we are obviously searching elsewhere for that loan. Makes total sense in my eyes.
Thedelldays Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Every time I've seen him play he looks a class act. Certainly better than anybody we've got here. It's all about providing an end product and that is what he is good at. He puts the ball into dangerous areas which we don't do nearly quickly enough. batter than lallana..? or just the 3 CMers...?
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 No, you said I wouldn't have ANY of their offensive players over ours. If we are talking purely offensive then they have been better this year. Exactly, so which of their attacking players would you have over which of ours? (CMS apart- obviously we would want him).
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 do you not think that their style (in flying forward) tends to allow their strikers to score more goals.? Seemingly not as since Ferguson has come in they have steadied the defense and still scored loads.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Exactly, so which of their attacking players would you have over which of ours? (CMS apart- obviously we would want him). I would have to look at goals scored ratios to know that. I suppose the real question is would you take Peterborough's team over out team. It is difficult to say at the moment but I still think they will get second.
Chez Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Every time I've seen him play he looks a class act. Certainly better than anybody we've got here. It's all about providing an end product and that is what he is good at. He puts the ball into dangerous areas which we don't do nearly quickly enough. I wish I had you enthusiasm. I've seen him against us about 5 or 6 times and he never ever stood out at all, which is unusual for a flair player. I guess we've dropped a division and standard of player since then though. You keep saying better than what we have. I assume you mean in CM and don't include the wide midfielder Lallana and Chamberlain?
Window Cleaner Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Exactly what I was getting at. We play with Lallana and Chamberlain playing very offensively and two strikers. Perhaps a more mobile passing player in the Schneiderlin style is what we need, like Frimpong the young Arsenal player. Players like Morgan don't grow on trees and cost a lot of money;I know nothing whatsoever about Frimpong but his lack of league experience in a vital role at this stage might well be a bit of a handicap.We saw this with Gobern last week, full of enthusiasm and no doubt knows what needs to be done but a big red 0/10 for knowing how to go about it.We have what we need if neither of them gets injured or suspended,most of the opposition we have from here in won't need anything more and we can afford to lose 2 even 3.
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I already said other than Chaplow. Butterfield I will give you but offensively we have lagged behind this year and it could cost us promotion if you look at the firepower Posh have. are you serious? We started the season with our first choice pairing being Lambert league top scorer last season with 29, and Barnard, 4th top scorer last season with 24 Offensively lagging behind this season? Top away scorers in division Lambert 16 in 33 Barnard 11 in 17 Lallana 7 in 22 Ox-C 8 in 20 Guly 6 in 14 Chaplow 4 in 20 Hammond 4 in 28 5 forwards with quality and strike rates most forwards would be happy with.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I would have to look at goals scored ratios to know that. I suppose the real question is would you take Peterborough's team over out team. It is difficult to say at the moment but I still think they will get second. Thats it. I wouldn't take their team because so far this team has pulled together when needed and has IMO an extra bit of class than Pboro. We have gone away in tough games and earned hard victories - the mark of a good team, we seem to deal well with the pressure and have some good experienced players, plus the best player in the league (Lallana) and 3 proven goalscorers in league football (Lambert, Lallana, Barnard). Also we have a tough defence who don't let many in. Sure it will be close, but we have the squad to do it certainly. If we get a good loan in then great. Whether Howard would work is up for debate. IMO bringing him in as a top earner, with a deal possibly tied in for next season would be a bit rash seeing as he is a back up for a current CCC team.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Howard being described as a leader and as a good passer sounds like exactly what we need with Morgan injured. If we don't get him (as now seems likely) then I would hope to get someone of comparable ability. Experience from this season however suggests that we are linked with a very good player for this league and seemingly get a compromise (remember this is MY OPINION). We shall see.
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Being third best in this league is pontless if it means we finish first. We need to finish top two and should be aiming for signings to confirm this. You are in awe of Peterborough, saying they are great and we are not as we are only 3rd top scorer and they are top - if you want to base things on one stat, try goals against? Puts us 2nd and Peterborough are going to get relegated! This isn't fantasy football and about changing a whole team each window.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Thats it. I wouldn't take their team because so far this team has pulled together when needed and has IMO an extra bit of class than Pboro. We have gone away in tough games and earned hard victories - the mark of a good team, we seem to deal well with the pressure and have some good experienced players, plus the best player in the league (Lallana) and 3 proven goalscorers in league football (Lambert, Lallana, Barnard). Also we have a tough defence who don't let many in. Sure it will be close, but we have the squad to do it certainly. If we get a good loan in then great. Whether Howard would work is up for debate. IMO bringing him in as a top earner, with a deal possibly tied in for next season would be a bit rash seeing as he is a back up for a current CCC team. Very debatable. I so hope we get it though and I think your post is pretty balanced even though I'm not sure I agree.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 You are in awe of Peterborough, saying they are great and we are not as we are only 3rd top scorer and they are top - if you want to base things on one stat, try goals against? Puts us 2nd and Peterborough are going to get relegated! This isn't fantasy football and about changing a whole team each window. I think Peterborough are going to get promoted based on their superior form since their new manager came in and sorted them out. I don't really care as much about stats as you do.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 are you serious? We started the season with our first choice pairing being Lambert league top scorer last season with 29, and Barnard, 4th top scorer last season with 24 Offensively lagging behind this season? Top away scorers in division Lambert 16 in 33 Barnard 11 in 17 Lallana 7 in 22 Ox-C 8 in 20 Guly 6 in 14 Chaplow 4 in 20 Hammond 4 in 28 5 forwards with quality and strike rates most forwards would be happy with. We aren't top two so yes we are lagging behind.
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Please read it again. How man were signed THIS SEASON (so your second and third comment is irrelevant) I mean in terms of IMPROVING THE FIRST 11 (So only Butterfield and Chaplow then.) you are right. We should have sold Lallana and Ox-C and bought...er....??? We should have spent £5m on CMS and not played either Barnard (11 in 17) or Guly (6 in 14)
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 We aren't top two so yes we are lagging behind. But our goal difference is top two, significantly better than Pboro, surely worth another point?
derry Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I wish I had you enthusiasm. I've seen him against us about 5 or 6 times and he never ever stood out at all, which is unusual for a flair player. I guess we've dropped a division and standard of player since then though. You keep saying better than what we have. I assume you mean in CM and don't include the wide midfielder Lallana and Chamberlain? Of course, central midfield is where it really isn't happening for us and for me is the way we can get the best from the four attackers if we get in an incisive passer like Howard.
Window Cleaner Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 you are right. We should have sold Lallana and Ox-C and bought...er....??? We should have spent £5m on CMS and not played either Barnard (11 in 17) or Guly (6 in 14) CMS is 2 million plus up to 1 million add-ons (or if you believe the Norwich chairman anyway).
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Of course, central midfield is where it really isn't happening for us and for me is the way we can get the best from the four attackers if we get in an incisive passer like Howard. Agree on the midfield, Chaplow has been very poor in the last few games. Luckily Hammond has really stepped up.
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 are you serious? We started the season with our first choice pairing being Lambert league top scorer last season with 29, and Barnard, 4th top scorer last season with 24 Offensively lagging behind this season? Top away scorers in division Lambert 16 in 33 Barnard 11 in 17 Lallana 7 in 22 Ox-C 8 in 20 Guly 6 in 14 Chaplow 4 in 20 Hammond 4 in 28 5 forwards with quality and strike rates most forwards would be happy with. We aren't top two so yes we are lagging behind. rather than Lambert, Lallana, Ox-C, Barnard and Guly being poor thing playing 3 less games is bigger reason why we are 5 points behind 2nd
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 CMS is 2 million plus up to 1 million add-ons (or if you believe the Norwich chairman anyway). would be a lot more to us.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 you are right. We should have sold Lallana and Ox-C and bought...er....??? We should have spent £5m on CMS and not played either Barnard (11 in 17) or Guly (6 in 14) Why are you continually putting words in my mouth? I think we should have invested in a quality striker in the window, this is because of Guly's erratic form and because of Barnard's court date coupled with giving us options so we can change things around if Lambert is having an off day or it isn't working. We should have brought in proven quality to tear up the division and improve our chances of a top two finish. I also think we could have done with a quality midfielder. We didn't really get either if everyone is honest. The january transfer window was underwhelming for many even if it wasn't for you.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 rather than Lambert, Lallana, Ox-C, Barnard and Guly being poor thing playing 3 less games is bigger reason why we are 5 points behind 2nd Winning three in a row without dropping points in tricky away games (see Walsall) is very difficult.
hypochondriac Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 But our goal difference is top two, significantly better than Pboro, surely worth another point? They have been closing fast. I am also not referring to Peterborough from earlier in the season, I am talking about the Peterborough NOW under Ferguson.
Window Cleaner Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Agree on the midfield, Chaplow has been very poor in the last few games. Luckily Hammond has really stepped up. Chaplow is playing a role that he doesn't get on with. He's an offensive minded player and not a ball winner/water carrier.His 7 yellows in 20 or so games just show that his tackling is woeful or at best badly judged, his close control is suspect as well because he immediately seeks to move the ball forward rather than having an instant look about and choosing the best option.He's a great little player but offensively and we're already over flush on that with Ox and Adam.When he's with Morgan it's compensated because Morgan always knows what's happening around him and can compensate Chappers advanced style but Hammond although doing well in his own role isn't aware enough to cover for Chappers offensive penchants.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 Chaplow is playing a role that he doesn't get on with. He's an offensive minded player and not a ball winner/water carrier.His 7 yellows in 20 or so games just show that his tackling is woeful or at best badly judged, his close control is suspect as well because he immediately seeks to move the ball forward rather than having an instant look about and choosing the best option.He's a great little player but offensively and we're already over flush on that with Ox and Adam.When he's with Morgan it's compensated because Morgan always knows what's happening around him and can compensate Chappers advanced style but Hammond although doing well in his own role isn't aware enough to cover for Chappers offensive penchants. At Bournemouth I felt Hammond was effectively our one man midfield. Chaplow couldn't retain the ball.
NickG Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 They have been closing fast. I am also not referring to Peterborough from earlier in the season, I am talking about the Peterborough NOW under Ferguson. Fergie been there for 14 games He has done excellently. 14 games, 41 goals for, 18 against, amazing 29 points. However, Saints last 14 games, 32 for, 11 against, 30 points.
Window Cleaner Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 At Bournemouth I felt Hammond was effectively our one man midfield. Chaplow couldn't retain the ball. But Bournemouth were shyte anyway so it didn't matter.I watched the Full 90( some of those flat camera angles are a bit nauseabond though).
Wade Garrett Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 I've heard that Cortese is considering another deal, as Reading want £300k transfer fee (if we go up). Apparently there is a cheaper deal elsewhere.
The9 Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 There are some stupid arguments on here, at least START by comparing like for like regarding Saints and Peterborough's attacks... I don't even know which players you're comparing in this hypothetical swap at the moment, I assume Mackail-Smith, Boyd and Tomlin, but how would they fit into Saints line-up, and would that have an impact on the rest of the team ? Do they have holding midfielders who recently have started playing well, or what ? Anyone can score AND concede loads of goals, but if that was the the most effective way to play everyone would be playing W-M or W formation. Peterborough have started conceding fewer, but why, and will it soon impact on their ability to score due to players getting into a different mindset ? And while I'm on the subject, when did slightly above average for Saints Danny Bloody Guthrie become the messiah ? Ten games for Saints during which he did a lot of nothing of note except look a bit busy.
Saint_clark Posted 18 March, 2011 Posted 18 March, 2011 There are some stupid arguments on here, at least START by comparing like for like regarding Saints and Peterborough's attacks... I don't even know which players you're comparing in this hypothetical swap at the moment, I assume Mackail-Smith, Boyd and Tomlin, but how would they fit into Saints line-up, and would that have an impact on the rest of the team ? Do they have holding midfielders who recently have started playing well, or what ? Anyone can score AND concede loads of goals, but if that was the the most effective way to play everyone would be playing W-M or W formation. Peterborough have started conceding fewer, but why, and will it soon impact on their ability to score due to players getting into a different mindset ? And while I'm on the subject, when did slightly above average for Saints Danny Bloody Guthrie become the messiah ? Ten games for Saints during which he did a lot of nothing of note except look a bit busy. Are you a fan of Schneiderlin? Besides, since then he's looked good at Prem level for Bolton and Newcastle.
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