A rallying call

[alpine_saint]

You say you hate the guy but have you actually met him? I can understand it if you hate murderers, rapists etc without actually meeting them but to hate a fellow saints fan because he is holding a rallying call is a bit low. We need fans more than ever right now and I don't need to say why as we all know why. Yes some fans cannot afford it these days, have work committments, live too far away, the credit crunch and some won't return because of Lowe and co but there is a lot who won't attend because of where we are in the league, results over the last year and the opposition etc but if we draw the skates or Man Utd in the third round of the FA cup at home you can bet your bottom dollar it will be a selll out with some fans moaning if they don't get tickets. By the way the attendance has not dropped from 32k to 14k since Lowe returned, the actual figure has dropped from 21k to almost 16k since he returned.

 

Related to him or being paid ?

[saintwarwick]

Related to him or being paid ?

 

alpine in 'nothing constructive to add' shocker.

[OldNick]

Fans should remember that the club will be here after RL or anyone else, but for that to happen they have to rally behind the club now at the moment of greatest need.

All those fans who have banged on about RL taking money etc etc etc have in their own little way helped in the fans drift away.

Some will say that they have no bearing on it, but IMO the fans who spend time on here in the main make saints a major part of their lives and are the fans who the first thing they are asked about when they go to pubs or clubs is about the situation. I can say that happens to me, whether socially or at business.

So the thoughts our transmitted to the wider fanbase and many of the part time fans take on these thoughts whether they should go or not.If they are told 'its c### and it's like watching the reserves but at top money' many will think I'll not bother wheras if we were more positive and perhaps gave the opinion of 'its great to watch the youngsters grow and we are playing good football' some may think yes lets go along.

It may be too simple but it does have a small ripple effect.

This site is a good example, the constant negativity has made a lot of the average fans find other places to put their views up and now dont log on or just dont bother reading it anymore as it is depressing.

[70's Mike]

Fans should remember that the club will be here after RL or anyone else, but for that to happen they have to rally behind the club now at the moment of greatest need.

All those fans who have banged on about RL taking money etc etc etc have in their own little way helped in the fans drift away.

Some will say that they have no bearing on it, but IMO the fans who spend time on here in the main make saints a major part of their lives and are the fans who the first thing they are asked about when they go to pubs or clubs is about the situation. I can say that happens to me, whether socially or at business.

So the thoughts our transmitted to the wider fanbase and many of the part time fans take on these thoughts whether they should go or not.If they are told 'its c### and it's like watching the reserves but at top money' many will think I'll not bother wheras if we were more positive and perhaps gave the opinion of 'its great to watch the youngsters grow and we are playing good football' some may think yes lets go along.

It may be too simple but it does have a small ripple effect.

This site is a good example, the constant negativity has made a lot of the average fans find other places to put their views up and now dont log on or just dont bother reading it anymore as it is depressing.

 

Nick

I appreciate what you are trying to say but it is also insulting the intelligence of waviering fans, they only have to look at the results, turn on the radio or read the papers to know that we are playing sterile , non productive losing football.

Me i will be at SMS saturday but unless we string a few wins together, irrespective of the style, i will be surrounded by more empty seats than full ones

[Secret Site Agent]

Although I agree with your sentiments, I actually agree with Nick on this one. Too many think of it as lining his pockets, well he cannot do that until the clubs pays it's way, and right now it is hardly doing that.

 

I actually said this a few weeks ago, (i had a lightbulb moment during my lunch) and got shouted down, so i am going to play devils advacate.

 

No, he is wrong, Lowe is happy to go bvankrupt and drive us all out the SMS as revenge for ousting him so that he can stand over a pile of ashes and say, 'I ****ing taught you lot a lesson, didn't I.' And I aint going to go any more because that is what lowe wants and I am only lining his pocket, so I am going to stay away and not support my team and I wont be happy until we are in the Blue square league and we have gone bankrupt.

 

There, I have said the ****, now no one has to come on and spout it.

 

Let the Cohesive, cogent, constructive well thougth out debate begin.

 

I'll start.

 

I think we SHOULD try, where we can, to get a stay-away to come back. We are not lining his pockets, but are ensuring the future of the club we love. I don't like, and still don't forgive Lowe, or Wilde, for what they have done, and I would like to see the back of them both, but lets not cut off our noses to spite our faces. If you can't afford it, fine. If you can't make it, fine. If you would rather cut the grass, or paint your fence, then OK. But if you are not going just because of Lord Lowe, WTF, best mate? Why, answer me that. And remember the Three 'C''s, (and the WT as well.)

[Saints foreva]

I can see what you mean

 

 

Sad thing is I'm in that photo. I only moved from the Northam for one game and I get caughted in a photo. lol

[um pahars]

Fans should remember that the club will be here after RL or anyone else, but for that to happen they have to rally behind the club now at the moment of greatest need.

All those fans who have banged on about RL taking money etc etc etc have in their own little way helped in the fans drift away.

Some will say that they have no bearing on it, but IMO the fans who spend time on here in the main make saints a major part of their lives and are the fans who the first thing they are asked about when they go to pubs or clubs is about the situation. I can say that happens to me, whether socially or at business.

So the thoughts our transmitted to the wider fanbase and many of the part time fans take on these thoughts whether they should go or not.If they are told 'its c### and it's like watching the reserves but at top money' many will think I'll not bother wheras if we were more positive and perhaps gave the opinion of 'its great to watch the youngsters grow and we are playing good football' some may think yes lets go along.

It may be too simple but it does have a small ripple effect.

This site is a good example, the constant negativity has made a lot of the average fans find other places to put their views up and now dont log on or just dont bother reading it anymore as it is depressing.

 

A couple of days ago we had one poster blaming the fans for scaring away anyone of note from the Club, and now we have another blaming fans for other supporters not turning up.:rolleyes:

 

It's not difficult to understand why fans have not been turning up this season, and he has got ficuk all to do with I say to my mates down the pub. It's down to rubbish served up last season (which had a big impact on season tickets) and poor performances this season.

 

I very much doubt many are actually staying way directly because of Lowe (although I accept some are), instead they are indirectly staying away because of him, in that his revolutionary new coaching set up has yet to deliver the results boasted on the OS (and its sister mouthpiece, The Echo).

 

Even if I went down the pub extolling the virtues of our team, I think most would think I was a talking blollox. They would point to one home win in the league, 8 goals conceded on the box, and a position two places above relegation.

 

People aren't daft, they know what the score is even without turning up for matches. Results and the league table are the ultimate characterreference.

[um pahars]

Unfortunately the Saints Trust isn't well enough represented by a membership of sufficient size to issue a rallying cry holding much validity. Lowe and the Quisling are held responsible for much of the current malaise, so do not have the moral grounds to issue such a rallying cry themselves either.

 

The only people who could realistically issue such a rallying cry that might achieve the desired effect, would be new owners, the present incumbents having sold their shares and departed.

 

A very good point and something I have been saying for ages.

 

In the absence of home wins, we need another way of engendering a "we're all in this together" spirit.

 

Sadly, I can't think of anyone currently connected with the Club who has the ability to deliver that sort of message (if anything, some invlved are actually counter productive).

 

Therefore, unless Jan and the players can work some magic, then we are lumbered with these attendances. We may not like it, it may mean some fans are deemed lower than others in some people's eye (not mine BTW), but I can see no other way of creating a "feelgood" spirit with the current incumbents at the helm.

[Big Bad Bob]

Nick

I appreciate what you are trying to say but it is also insulting the intelligence of waviering fans, they only have to look at the results, turn on the radio or read the papers to know that we are playing sterile , non productive losing football.

Me i will be at SMS saturday but unless we string a few wins together, irrespective of the style, i will be surrounded by more empty seats than full ones

 

Cripes Mike, if you think the football this season is sterile what must it have been for the last 3-4 seasons??

 

I think the main point is that, despite playing better [than last season] football, we are still losing.

 

The team needs to start winning to get bums back on seats.

 

It's a shame our fans aren't like the Man City and Leeds ones that filled their respective Stadia during their visits to the lower leagues

[Greenridge]

First we had that wise old owl SunnyD claiming the current problems beset by the club were due to the fans, now we have claims from the same camp that fans are stopping other fans going by being negative. You couldn't make it up.

 

I don't believe for a minute that there is one single over-riding factor that is determining our low attendance levels, it is a combination of many aspects that have been widely discussed on the forum and are all influential. These same points affect virtually every club in the land with the exception of the fractured fan base due to the boardroom shenanigans. Seems most people believe this accounting for around 3,000 upwards of 'missing' supporters. If these were to return we'd be at a level more in-line with our current status of CCC incumbence.

[Weston Super Saint]

only a "fairly" nice guy?

Ahem!

 

Are you Nick I?

[Totton Red]

I know nothing about Nick I....I assume that his day job reflects his standing as a spokesman for the average man (and woman etc)?

[krissyboy31]

I see that Bolton are trying to get more fans to turn up at the weekend by offering FREE BEER!! Rupert could try this, although having tasted the beer at St Mary's, I'm not sure it would work.

[saintwarwick]

I see that Bolton are trying to get more fans to turn up at the weekend by offering FREE BEER!! Rupert could try this, although having tasted the beer at St Mary's, I'm not sure it would work.

 

Have you tasted the beer at Bolton?

[OldNick]

Nick

I appreciate what you are trying to say but it is also insulting the intelligence of waviering fans, they only have to look at the results, turn on the radio or read the papers to know that we are playing sterile , non productive losing football.

Me i will be at SMS saturday but unless we string a few wins together, irrespective of the style, i will be surrounded by more empty seats than full ones

I can see that is true, but fans also take on board what people say. We can help break down the negativity by being more positive about the football when speaking to the waverers, if we reinforce the negatives they are more likely not to go.

I agree the football has not been scintillating but it has been very attractive at times, but at the end of the day people want to be associated to success and unless we go on a winning run it will be difficult to bring the fans back

[trousers]

Are you Nick I?

 

A reasonable conclusion

[OldNick]

A couple of days ago we had one poster blaming the fans for scaring away anyone of note from the Club, and now we have another blaming fans for other supporters not turning up.:rolleyes:

 

It's not difficult to understand why fans have not been turning up this season, and he has got ficuk all to do with I say to my mates down the pub. It's down to rubbish served up last season (which had a big impact on season tickets) and poor performances this season.

 

I very much doubt many are actually staying way directly because of Lowe (although I accept some are), instead they are indirectly staying away because of him, in that his revolutionary new coaching set up has yet to deliver the results boasted on the OS (and its sister mouthpiece, The Echo).

 

Even if I went down the pub extolling the virtues of our team, I think most would think I was a talking blollox. They would point to one home win in the league, 8 goals conceded on the box, and a position two places above relegation.

 

People aren't daft, they know what the score is even without turning up for matches. Results and the league table are the ultimate characterreference.

All very fair and much I agree with

[Oz]

i have not been nor will i go until lowe and wilde have left this club.

[John Smith]

Well, after reading this thread, the Nick I rallying call and the soap box fiasco that was Steve Grants attempt at understanding the situation, I almost felt compelled to write my reasons for not going, once again, because many, as represented by these 3 outlined examples, do not listen!

 

I gave my reasons for not going anymore when Lowe returned. I repeated myself several times over the summer and into the new season and still, many people do not listen to what has been said. Instead, they resort to sweeping rationalisations and finger pointing in order to what? Persuade me to go against my principals? Persuade me that Lowe is really a nice man if I actually spoke to him? Get a refund on my holiday or my the other articles that I have bought my wife? Maybe return the new clothes I bought my little girl, her toys? Or maybe I should no longer spend Saturday with my little girl having a 'Daddy day' that she never used to get?

 

What these people do not understand is that I now do different things. When I'm not going to watch Saints, I don't sit here, online or watching the vidi-printer, I go out, I'm doing stuff. Replacing Saints isn't about sitting in a darkened room until 4:45 passes and then I rejoin social life. I have made a lifestyle change. Football is no longer a central point in my life, for the first time since I could walk and talk. That is massive, that is huge, that is change that will effect my life forever.

 

And although Steve Grant touched upon it in his own naive, self indulgent manner, that I won't be coming back and Nick I and others on here think that it's just a case of going 'oh, ok, I'll come back because you asked so nicely', it's not going to happen. And like I said, that doesn't just mean I won't be watching Saints anymore, neither will my father, neither will my daughter, neither will my nephew, nor will their friends, who I would also take to make it fun, and then nor will my childrens children, and my childrens children friends, etc etc.

 

And this is sad.

 

Some will try and turn this around and say that this means that Lowe wins and that he can ruin this club and the sport he hates. Well, for me, he already has. Whilst talking about Lowe, just want to clear up that pro-Lowe myth:

 

I DO NOT THINK MY MONEY 'LINES' LOWES POCKETS!!!!

 

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? And whilst I'm talking about repeating myself, I'm going to stop now because repeating myself for the umpteenth time is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because some of those mentioned at the start of this post, just don't get it. As many of you know, I am happy for those that go, to still go. I have no problem with people supporting Lowe, that's their prerogative. And yet pigs will fly before many on here give me that same respect.

 

FWIW, if a product is ailing and needs an injection of cash, a sale is a good thing. It brings back customers that have forgotten why they regularly paid for said product and therefore, with the hope that they will become loyal again at the original price.

 

Reducing prices at SMS will therefore be meaningless because more people will come for that one game, but, unlike sale items that are trying to recapture customer loyalty, our product is not up to scratch. And the truth is, if we have 'one of those days' and play poorly and lose, those extra bums on cheap seats will NEVER return.

 

IMO, Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge.

[slickmick]

Well, after reading this thread, the Nick I rallying call and the soap box fiasco that was Steve Grants attempt at understanding the situation, I almost felt compelled to write my reasons for not going, once again, because many, as represented by these 3 outlined examples, do not listen!

 

I gave my reasons for not going anymore when Lowe returned. I repeated myself several times over the summer and into the new season and still, many people do not listen to what has been said. Instead, they resort to sweeping rationalisations and finger pointing in order to what? Persuade me to go against my principals? Persuade me that Lowe is really a nice man if I actually spoke to him? Get a refund on my holiday or my the other articles that I have bought my wife? Maybe return the new clothes I bought my little girl, her toys? Or maybe I should no longer spend Saturday with my little girl having a 'Daddy day' that she never used to get?

 

What these people do not understand is that I now do different things. When I'm not going to watch Saints, I don't sit here, online or watching the vidi-printer, I go out, I'm doing stuff. Replacing Saints isn't about sitting in a darkened room until 4:45 passes and then I rejoin social life. I have made a lifestyle change. Football is no longer a central point in my life, for the first time since I could walk and talk. That is massive, that is huge, that is change that will effect my life forever.

 

And although Steve Grant touched upon it in his own naive, self indulgent manner, that I won't be coming back and Nick I and others on here think that it's just a case of going 'oh, ok, I'll come back because you asked so nicely', it's not going to happen. And like I said, that doesn't just mean I won't be watching Saints anymore, neither will my father, neither will my daughter, neither will my nephew, nor will their friends, who I would also take to make it fun, and then nor will my childrens children, and my childrens children friends, etc etc.

 

And this is sad.

 

Some will try and turn this around and say that this means that Lowe wins and that he can ruin this club and the sport he hates. Well, for me, he already has. Whilst talking about Lowe, just want to clear up that pro-Lowe myth:

 

I DO NOT THINK MY MONEY 'LINES' LOWES POCKETS!!!!

 

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? And whilst I'm talking about repeating myself, I'm going to stop now because repeating myself for the umpteenth time is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because some of those mentioned at the start of this post, just don't get it. As many of you know, I am happy for those that go, to still go. I have no problem with people supporting Lowe, that's their prerogative. And yet pigs will fly before many on here give me that same respect.

 

FWIW, if a product is ailing and needs an injection of cash, a sale is a good thing. It brings back customers that have forgotten why they regularly paid for said product and therefore, with the hope that they will become loyal again at the original price.

 

Reducing prices at SMS will therefore be meaningless because more people will come for that one game, but, unlike sale items that are trying to recapture customer loyalty, our product is not up to scratch. And the truth is, if we have 'one of those days' and play poorly and lose, those extra bums on cheap seats will NEVER return.

 

IMO, Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge.

 

 

Their your views, fine, but what happens next ?

[John Smith]

Their your views, fine, but what happens next ?

 

I live my life.

[slickmick]

I live my life.

 

 

So your wont be interested if we win or lose ?

[JohnnyFartPants]

Well, after reading this thread, the Nick I rallying call and the soap box fiasco that was Steve Grants attempt at understanding the situation, I almost felt compelled to write my reasons for not going, once again, because many, as represented by these 3 outlined examples, do not listen!

 

I gave my reasons for not going anymore when Lowe returned. I repeated myself several times over the summer and into the new season and still, many people do not listen to what has been said. Instead, they resort to sweeping rationalisations and finger pointing in order to what? Persuade me to go against my principals? Persuade me that Lowe is really a nice man if I actually spoke to him? Get a refund on my holiday or my the other articles that I have bought my wife? Maybe return the new clothes I bought my little girl, her toys? Or maybe I should no longer spend Saturday with my little girl having a 'Daddy day' that she never used to get?

 

What these people do not understand is that I now do different things. When I'm not going to watch Saints, I don't sit here, online or watching the vidi-printer, I go out, I'm doing stuff. Replacing Saints isn't about sitting in a darkened room until 4:45 passes and then I rejoin social life. I have made a lifestyle change. Football is no longer a central point in my life, for the first time since I could walk and talk. That is massive, that is huge, that is change that will effect my life forever.

 

And although Steve Grant touched upon it in his own naive, self indulgent manner, that I won't be coming back and Nick I and others on here think that it's just a case of going 'oh, ok, I'll come back because you asked so nicely', it's not going to happen. And like I said, that doesn't just mean I won't be watching Saints anymore, neither will my father, neither will my daughter, neither will my nephew, nor will their friends, who I would also take to make it fun, and then nor will my childrens children, and my childrens children friends, etc etc.

 

And this is sad.

 

Some will try and turn this around and say that this means that Lowe wins and that he can ruin this club and the sport he hates. Well, for me, he already has. Whilst talking about Lowe, just want to clear up that pro-Lowe myth:

 

I DO NOT THINK MY MONEY 'LINES' LOWES POCKETS!!!!

 

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? And whilst I'm talking about repeating myself, I'm going to stop now because repeating myself for the umpteenth time is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because some of those mentioned at the start of this post, just don't get it. As many of you know, I am happy for those that go, to still go. I have no problem with people supporting Lowe, that's their prerogative. And yet pigs will fly before many on here give me that same respect.

 

FWIW, if a product is ailing and needs an injection of cash, a sale is a good thing. It brings back customers that have forgotten why they regularly paid for said product and therefore, with the hope that they will become loyal again at the original price.

 

Reducing prices at SMS will therefore be meaningless because more people will come for that one game, but, unlike sale items that are trying to recapture customer loyalty, our product is not up to scratch. And the truth is, if we have 'one of those days' and play poorly and lose, those extra bums on cheap seats will NEVER return.

 

IMO, Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge.

 

I am just glad you didn't go on and on, making out that your withdrawal from going to a football match was of huge significance in the grand scheme of things. I am glad you never tried to make out that your own values will have an everlasting ingrained effect on anyone in the world connected to your gene pool as that could come across as slightly egotistical.

[70's Mike]

Cripes Mike, if you think the football this season is sterile what must it have been for the last 3-4 seasons??

 

I think the main point is that, despite playing better [than last season] football, we are still losing.

 

The team needs to start winning to get bums back on seats.

 

It's a shame our fans aren't like the Man City and Leeds ones that filled their respective Stadia during their visits to the lower leagues

 

Agree about the winning bit.

 

I watch lots of youth football and the problem is WE are like lots of Tyro league sides pass the ball well, lots of clever flicks etc, problem is the nasty big boys kick the ball in the air, tackle and stop the fancy dans.

You need skill and strength , one alone is not enough.

In the previous season we had no skill now we have no strength

[Secret Site Agent]

If they stay away because of their dislike of Lowe and Wilde, or because of perceived lack of value for their money, then the solution to those reasons puts the ball back in the court of the board.

 

I've got to ask this though, Wes.

 

What you are saying is that to get fans back, Lowe and Wilde have to leave, to get fans back.

 

Sorry, I don't get it.

[Easty]

Just a question.

If we were sat in the top 4 or 5 playing good football, and most Saturdays were fun times, instead of floundering next to the bottom, and the world and his wife *****ing it every Saturday (for a whole week) Do you think those stay away fans would be at every game? I do. Because the majority of fans will pay to see good football, and as long as they get that they are happy. So personally the Lowe and Co excuses are from a very low percentage of fans. Get behind the team like you used to.

 

Dodge the bullet time.

[krissyboy31]

Just a question.

If we were sat in the top 4 or 5 playing good football, and most Saturdays were fun times, instead of floundering next to the bottom, and the world and his wife *****ing it every Saturday (for a whole week) Do you think those stay away fans would be at every game? I do. Because the majority of fans will pay to see good football, and as long as they get that they are happy. So personally the Lowe and Co excuses are from a very low percentage of fans. Get behind the team like you used to.

 

Dodge the bullet time.

 

To a certain extent you are correct. Unforetunatley the present Management structure and I include RL and MW in that, haven't delivered and most on here can not see them ever delivering. RL and MW may not be the direct reason why the attendances are so low but the results of their actions certainly have an effect.

[alpine_saint]

Well, after reading this thread, the Nick I rallying call and the soap box fiasco that was Steve Grants attempt at understanding the situation, I almost felt compelled to write my reasons for not going, once again, because many, as represented by these 3 outlined examples, do not listen!

 

I gave my reasons for not going anymore when Lowe returned. I repeated myself several times over the summer and into the new season and still, many people do not listen to what has been said. Instead, they resort to sweeping rationalisations and finger pointing in order to what? Persuade me to go against my principals? Persuade me that Lowe is really a nice man if I actually spoke to him? Get a refund on my holiday or my the other articles that I have bought my wife? Maybe return the new clothes I bought my little girl, her toys? Or maybe I should no longer spend Saturday with my little girl having a 'Daddy day' that she never used to get?

 

What these people do not understand is that I now do different things. When I'm not going to watch Saints, I don't sit here, online or watching the vidi-printer, I go out, I'm doing stuff. Replacing Saints isn't about sitting in a darkened room until 4:45 passes and then I rejoin social life. I have made a lifestyle change. Football is no longer a central point in my life, for the first time since I could walk and talk. That is massive, that is huge, that is change that will effect my life forever.

 

And although Steve Grant touched upon it in his own naive, self indulgent manner, that I won't be coming back and Nick I and others on here think that it's just a case of going 'oh, ok, I'll come back because you asked so nicely', it's not going to happen. And like I said, that doesn't just mean I won't be watching Saints anymore, neither will my father, neither will my daughter, neither will my nephew, nor will their friends, who I would also take to make it fun, and then nor will my childrens children, and my childrens children friends, etc etc.

 

And this is sad.

 

Some will try and turn this around and say that this means that Lowe wins and that he can ruin this club and the sport he hates. Well, for me, he already has. Whilst talking about Lowe, just want to clear up that pro-Lowe myth:

 

I DO NOT THINK MY MONEY 'LINES' LOWES POCKETS!!!!

 

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? And whilst I'm talking about repeating myself, I'm going to stop now because repeating myself for the umpteenth time is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because some of those mentioned at the start of this post, just don't get it. As many of you know, I am happy for those that go, to still go. I have no problem with people supporting Lowe, that's their prerogative. And yet pigs will fly before many on here give me that same respect.

 

FWIW, if a product is ailing and needs an injection of cash, a sale is a good thing. It brings back customers that have forgotten why they regularly paid for said product and therefore, with the hope that they will become loyal again at the original price.

 

Reducing prices at SMS will therefore be meaningless because more people will come for that one game, but, unlike sale items that are trying to recapture customer loyalty, our product is not up to scratch. And the truth is, if we have 'one of those days' and play poorly and lose, those extra bums on cheap seats will NEVER return.

 

IMO, Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge.

 

A truly superb, quality post. I agree completely.

[alpine_saint]

I am just glad you didn't go on and on, making out that your withdrawal from going to a football match was of huge significance in the grand scheme of things. I am glad you never tried to make out that your own values will have an everlasting ingrained effect on anyone in the world connected to your gene pool as that could come across as slightly egotistical.

 

What a pathetic, abusive, disrespectful post.

[Saint_John]

Well, after reading this thread, the Nick I rallying call and the soap box fiasco that was Steve Grants attempt at understanding the situation, I almost felt compelled to write my reasons for not going, once again, because many, as represented by these 3 outlined examples, do not listen!

 

I gave my reasons for not going anymore when Lowe returned. I repeated myself several times over the summer and into the new season and still, many people do not listen to what has been said. Instead, they resort to sweeping rationalisations and finger pointing in order to what? Persuade me to go against my principals? Persuade me that Lowe is really a nice man if I actually spoke to him? Get a refund on my holiday or my the other articles that I have bought my wife? Maybe return the new clothes I bought my little girl, her toys? Or maybe I should no longer spend Saturday with my little girl having a 'Daddy day' that she never used to get?

 

What these people do not understand is that I now do different things. When I'm not going to watch Saints, I don't sit here, online or watching the vidi-printer, I go out, I'm doing stuff. Replacing Saints isn't about sitting in a darkened room until 4:45 passes and then I rejoin social life. I have made a lifestyle change. Football is no longer a central point in my life, for the first time since I could walk and talk. That is massive, that is huge, that is change that will effect my life forever.

 

And although Steve Grant touched upon it in his own naive, self indulgent manner, that I won't be coming back and Nick I and others on here think that it's just a case of going 'oh, ok, I'll come back because you asked so nicely', it's not going to happen. And like I said, that doesn't just mean I won't be watching Saints anymore, neither will my father, neither will my daughter, neither will my nephew, nor will their friends, who I would also take to make it fun, and then nor will my childrens children, and my childrens children friends, etc etc.

 

And this is sad.

 

Some will try and turn this around and say that this means that Lowe wins and that he can ruin this club and the sport he hates. Well, for me, he already has. Whilst talking about Lowe, just want to clear up that pro-Lowe myth:

 

I DO NOT THINK MY MONEY 'LINES' LOWES POCKETS!!!!

 

How many more times do I have to repeat myself? And whilst I'm talking about repeating myself, I'm going to stop now because repeating myself for the umpteenth time is not why I'm posting. I'm posting because some of those mentioned at the start of this post, just don't get it. As many of you know, I am happy for those that go, to still go. I have no problem with people supporting Lowe, that's their prerogative. And yet pigs will fly before many on here give me that same respect.

 

FWIW, if a product is ailing and needs an injection of cash, a sale is a good thing. It brings back customers that have forgotten why they regularly paid for said product and therefore, with the hope that they will become loyal again at the original price.

 

Reducing prices at SMS will therefore be meaningless because more people will come for that one game, but, unlike sale items that are trying to recapture customer loyalty, our product is not up to scratch. And the truth is, if we have 'one of those days' and play poorly and lose, those extra bums on cheap seats will NEVER return.

 

IMO, Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge.

 

Excellent post John.

The sentence

"Lowe ruined this club and I will NEVER give him my mandate to rule through my money. Passive acceptance or positive reinforcement of that mandate is the only thing that keeps Lowe in charge."

sums up my feelings as well.

[Scudamore]

What a pathetic, abusive, disrespectful post.

 

Shut up you t:t.

 

Now that is a abusive...

[Scudamore]

I shall be going on Saturday...with my dad...he got all melancholy and misty eyed the other day...saying he only likes it when we win...but i managed to pull him round...

 

Anyways...i was just wondering if i get a medal for attending?

[Window Cleaner]

Anyways...i was just wondering if i get a medal for attending?

 

 

Yep ,award yourself the C.D.M

[jam]

What a pathetic, abusive, disrespectful post.

 

The post was neither pathetic nor abusive.

 

John's lost interest in Saints and has found other things to fill his life, which he prefers now. Fair play to him and to be honest I can sympathise (although my reasoning is more to do with the disappointment of last season).

 

However he says he will NEVER come back, which is obviously his call to make but it kinda makes his post totally irrelevant to this thread, which is supposed to be discussing and article in the Rag where in which someone is trying to call back wavering stay away fans.

 

John also goes on to imply that all the comments about fans who are staying away 'because they don't want to line Lowes pockets' are somehow directed at him personally, and therefore invalid. Which is somewhat egotistical, no?

[JohnnyFartPants]

What a pathetic, abusive, disrespectful post.

 

I cannot see how my agreeing with the poster is in any way abusive or disrespectful. It wasn't even pathetic. It's not as if I was being vitriol about something as meaningless as a game of football, was I?

[St Marco]

You say you hate the guy but have you actually met him? I can understand it if you hate murderers, rapists etc without actually meeting them but to hate a fellow saints fan because he is holding a rallying call is a bit low. We need fans more than ever right now and I don't need to say why as we all know why. Yes some fans cannot afford it these days, have work committments, live too far away, the credit crunch and some won't return because of Lowe and co but there is a lot who won't attend because of where we are in the league, results over the last year and the opposition etc but if we draw the skates or Man Utd in the third round of the FA cup at home you can bet your bottom dollar it will be a selll out with some fans moaning if they don't get tickets. By the way the attendance has not dropped from 32k to 14k since Lowe returned, the actual figure has dropped from 21k to almost 16k since he returned.

 

No of course i don't really hate the guy, i understand his view just i disagree with the way it is presented. It feels like he is saying this is the main problem when it really isn't. Last season i used to attend home games with 6 people. All season ticket holders. They are massive fans of the club and have spent many thousands of pounds supporting them over the years. 3 of them and myself go to regular away games. This season only 3 of us remain for the home games and all still go to the away games. The reason they have stopped going to home games is down to the fact they simply can't afford to pay £28 a game to watch pretty dire games. That works out at 31p a minute to watch our team. That is expensive without including travel and what not. However the away games are cheaper. Look at the Sheff Utd game. That cost £10 to get in. Why are we being asked to pay nearly three times as much to see home games? So as i mentioned it is very few people if any who are not going because of Lowe. I don't think i have met anyone who honestly is not going because of him. I dislike the guy and didn't want him to return. I still go because i love the club. However im pretty certain those who are not going don't care less about the club. My friends who have spent thousands down the years don't now think **** southampton fc. This is what Nick sounds like he is saying. There are so many factors involved with the demise of the attendence that pin pointing the anti-Lowe issue as the issue to be vocal about is just stupid. There are so many other things that need talking about. So many things the fans need to know i.e the state of the finances, why tickets are so high, will players need to be sold in january and so on.

 

So my point was i am pretty certain if the tickets were value for money i.e say £10+ not £28 then we would see many thousands return to the stadium. By calling on the anti-Lowe to forget about their view on him and come back i just can't see being more then a few hundred which wont make much if any difference on the clubs finances such as he implies. So no i don't hate him, i don't know him, so for that i appologise for my imature rant. However i'm tired of his remarks in the paper such as this which in all honesty don't show much understanding of the fans; if he truley believe this is the reason people are not going.

[OldNick]

A truly superb, quality post. I agree completely.

you would as you gave up some time ago.

 

I would understand JS and respect his and yours more if you both had the same principles when we were playing in the PL and Europe.

Did either of you go to Cardiff for the cup final? because if you did your stand now is hypocritical as Rupert Lowe was our chairman then and the reverse takeover had happened.

If it is success you crave and that will get you to go again say it, but it is tiring listening to the same old lame excuses why you dont go, as RL has been at the club 10 years and so if you stepped into the stadium at any time up to then the arguement is flawed IMHO

[St Marco]

you would as you gave up some time ago.

 

I would understand JS and respect his and yours more if you both had the same principles when we were playing in the PL and Europe.

Did either of you go to Cardiff for the cup final? because if you did your stand now is hypocritical as Rupert Lowe was our chairman then and the reverse takeover had happened.

If it is success you crave and that will get you to go again say it, but it is tiring listening to the same old lame excuses why you dont go, as RL has been at the club 10 years and so if you stepped into the stadium at any time up to then the arguement is flawed IMHO

 

Exactly and im sure majority of the fans agree that is how it is. We have had some good times and we are having some bad times. Lowe is a reason for some good and some bad. But so many other people are the same i.e the manager,the players etc.. I dont think there are many glory hunting Saints fans

[Window Cleaner]

No of course i don't really hate the guy, i understand his view just i disagree with the way it is presented. It feels like he is saying this is the main problem when it really isn't. Last season i used to attend home games with 6 people. All season ticket holders. They are massive fans of the club and have spent many thousands of pounds supporting them over the years. 3 of them and myself go to regular away games. This season only 3 of us remain for the home games and all still go to the away games. The reason they have stopped going to home games is down to the fact they simply can't afford to pay £28 a game to watch pretty dire games. That works out at 31p a minute to watch our team. That is expensive without including travel and what not. However the away games are cheaper. Look at the Sheff Utd game. That cost £10 to get in. Why are we being asked to pay nearly three times as much to see home games? So as i mentioned it is very few people if any who are not going because of Lowe. I don't think i have met anyone who honestly is not going because of him. I dislike the guy and didn't want him to return. I still go because i love the club. However im pretty certain those who are not going don't care less about the club. My friends who have spent thousands down the years don't now think **** southampton fc. This is what Nick sounds like he is saying. There are so many factors involved with the demise of the attendence that pin pointing the anti-Lowe issue as the issue to be vocal about is just stupid. There are so many other things that need talking about. So many things the fans need to know i.e the state of the finances, why tickets are so high, will players need to be sold in january and so on.

 

So my point was i am pretty certain if the tickets were value for money i.e say £10+ not £28 then we would see many thousands return to the stadium. By calling on the anti-Lowe to forget about their view on him and come back i just can't see being more then a few hundred which wont make much if any difference on the clubs finances such as he implies. So no i don't hate him, i don't know him, so for that i appologise for my imature rant. However i'm tired of his remarks in the paper such as this which in all honesty don't show much understanding of the fans; if he truley believe this is the reason people are not going.

 

Why didn't they renew their season tickets then?, wouldn't have cost £28 a game then. Presuming they went to QPR that would have cost them £30.

So they go to QPR at £30 but not to SMS where they could have gone for

£24 (or less if they'd renewed their STs).I presume the Sheff U game cost a tenner because it was last chance saloon and when you know you're being kicked out on the morrow you can do whatyever you want, the finances are no longer your problem.In fact it might have been done to stick up the proverbial two to the incoming administration.

Talking away the 13500 ST holders,16500 at £10=6895x£24.

[St Marco]

Why didn't they renew their season tickets then?, wouldn't have cost £28 a game then. Presuming they went to QPR that would have cost them £30.

So they go to QPR at £30 but not to SMS where they could have gone for

£24 (or less if they'd renewed their STs).I presume the Sheff U game cost a tenner because it was last chance saloon and when you know you're being kicked out on the morrow you can do whatyever you want, the finances are no longer your problem.In fact it might have been done to stick up the proverbial two to the incoming administration.

 

Guess i didn't explain it right. They thought the tickets should of become far more cheaper this year. And the people who go to the away games are the ones who go to the home games i.e all season ticket holders. I think it is a very valid point that say we do survive this season (fingers crossed) and your asked to pay £644+ next season (£28 a home game) would you think that was value for money? Most people who didn't buy a season ticket based it on what they saw last season which lets be honest here was pretty bad. A far cry from the season before. But talking about QPR they have some pretty nasty ticket prices this season. I guess that is to do with the new owners?

Away tickets were £20 if i remember right? Still cheaper then our home tickets.

 

It would be interesting to see a table of this league's ticket prices and where we would be in comparison. I'm guessing we would be amongst the highest?

[Window Cleaner]

Guess i didn't explain it right. They thought the tickets should of become far more cheaper this year. And the people who go to the away games are the ones who go to the home games i.e all season ticket holders. I think it is a very valid point that say we do survive this season (fingers crossed) and your asked to pay £644+ next season (£28 a home game) would you think that was value for money? Most people who didn't buy a season ticket based it on what they saw last season which lets be honest here was pretty bad. A far cry from the season before. But talking about QPR they have some pretty nasty ticket prices this season. I guess that is to do with the new owners?

Away tickets were £20 if i remember right? Still cheaper then our home tickets.

 

It would be interesting to see a table of this league's ticket prices and where we would be in comparison. I'm guessing we would be amongst the highest?

 

 

So then this season's attendance is conditional on last seasons performances. A ST (early bird) on the half way line is £500 or £22 per home game. On the "March Madness" scheme it would have been about £80 less I expect,so the home game cost about £18.50. Interest free credit to boot I think.

There is no validity in this ticket price guff, not if you were a season ticket holder and could have renewed uner the MM scheme. That the football was crap, now that I do buy. Big money team that has nigh on bankrupted the club for tinpot dire performances, yep that explains it very well;Last season we were catastrophically badly run, neither of the present incumbent was involved with that....Dodd and Gorman what a fook up supreme.We were bad under Burley, should have been sacked early on,wasn't, then he left and we got the comedy duo when there were plenty of cheap candidates waiting in the wings. If we'd got Pearson THEN, he might still be here.

[lordswoodsaints]

i know somebody who wont go because lowe is in charge yet he has been to two home games this season because he got the tickets for nothing.

 

this is the type of fan that should be driven from our club,they are the ones that shout the loudest when things are going wrong but are first in the queue for any freebies.

imo stay aways consist of a large percentage of this type of 'fan'. even though i think the proper stay away fans (the fans that stick to their principles and refuse to go) are crazy,i do have a certain respect for their stance even though i dont agree with whatb they are doing.

[saintsfannick]

I agree with nick, fans should put aside their irrelevant problems with the club e.g. rupert lowe , JP or the s**t that we play week by in week out and just SUPPORT YOUR TEAM, ok you may be proud to be a saints fan right now but just by turning up and showing your support you and making a difference cheering them on! saints also needs every penny it can get at the moment , some of the 32k that were at home to sheffield utd need to return and stop being so synical ,I know how easy it must be to turn your back on saints when were losing but this is when they need us more than ever

[Scudamore]

i know somebody who wont go because lowe is in charge yet he has been to two home games this season because he got the tickets for nothing.

 

this is the type of fan that should be driven from our club,they are the ones that shout the loudest when things are going wrong but are first in the queue for any freebies.

imo stay aways consist of a large percentage of this type of 'fan'. even though i think the proper stay away fans (the fans that stick to their principles and refuse to go) are crazy,i do have a certain respect for their stance even though i dont agree with whatb they are doing.

 

He's a fan. I welcome him to the ground regardless. And encourage him to put his voice to good use...

[stevegrant]

It would be interesting to see a table of this league's ticket prices and where we would be in comparison. I'm guessing we would be amongst the highest?

In order of MOST EXPENSIVE ticket (this doesn't include tickets which appear to be "cheap" corporate tickets - Ipswich in particular offer matchday prices of up to about £50, but I wouldn't say they were "normal" tickets, personally):

 

Crystal Palace £25-35 (depending on opposition)

QPR £20-35 (this is only Category C, which are the only prices visible on their website, but currently every upcoming game, which includes "big" games against the likes of Birmingham and Cardiff, is a Cat C game)

Ipswich Town £24-33.50 (+£2.50 for buying on the day)

Derby County £22-33 (+£3 for buying on the day)

Wolves £24-30

Watford £23-30 (+£2-5 for buying on the day)

Nottingham Forest £20-30

Cardiff City £18-30 (+£0-3 for buying on the day)

Charlton Athletic £15-30

Norwich City £14-30 (Cat A* to B and "Saver" Category)

Sheffield United £10-30 (Cat A* to C)

Blackpool £23-29 (+£1 for non-members buying on the day)

Bristol City £26-28 (+£2 for non-members)

Sheffield Wednesday £23-28 (+£1 for buying on the day)

Preston North End £20-27

Birmingham City £18-27 (although they do have a deal for the upcoming Palace game - midweek - for £15, but this is out of their normal price scheme)

SAINTS £24-26

Reading £23-26 (+£4 for buying on the day)

Coventry City £22-25

Plymouth Argyle £20-24 (+£2 for buying on the day)

Swansea City £20-23

Burnley £19-23

Doncaster Rovers £15-23

Barnsley £20-22

 

which actually puts us among the cheapest. However, many of the other clubs have different categories for different quality/attraction of opposition, which could make at least parts of their grounds cheaper than us.

[St Landrew]

In order of MOST EXPENSIVE ticket (this doesn't include tickets which appear to be "cheap" corporate tickets - Ipswich in particular offer matchday prices of up to about £50, but I wouldn't say they were "normal" tickets, personally):

 

Crystal Palace £25-35 (depending on opposition)

QPR £20-35 (this is only Category C, which are the only prices visible on their website, but currently every upcoming game, which includes "big" games against the likes of Birmingham and Cardiff, is a Cat C game)

Ipswich Town £24-33.50 (+£2.50 for buying on the day)

Derby County £22-33 (+£3 for buying on the day)

Wolves £24-30

Watford £23-30 (+£2-5 for buying on the day)

Nottingham Forest £20-30

Cardiff City £18-30 (+£0-3 for buying on the day)

Charlton Athletic £15-30

Norwich City £14-30 (Cat A* to B and "Saver" Category)

Sheffield United £10-30 (Cat A* to C)

Blackpool £23-29 (+£1 for non-members buying on the day)

Bristol City £26-28 (+£2 for non-members)

Sheffield Wednesday £23-28 (+£1 for buying on the day)

Preston North End £20-27

Birmingham City £18-27 (although they do have a deal for the upcoming Palace game - midweek - for £15, but this is out of their normal price scheme)

SAINTS £24-26

Reading £23-26 (+£4 for buying on the day)

Coventry City £22-25

Plymouth Argyle £20-24 (+£2 for buying on the day)

Swansea City £20-23

Burnley £19-23

Doncaster Rovers £15-23

Barnsley £20-22

 

which actually puts us among the cheapest. However, many of the other clubs have different categories for different quality/attraction of opposition, which could make at least parts of their grounds cheaper than us.

 

What you're saying is Steve, is that some clubs are being more imaginative in their pricing policy in order to attract supporters. I see many of them have a big ticket cost range. I think Saints could do something more along these lines without alienating season ticket holders.

[Scudamore]

I blame (as we love playing the blame game around here) the seniors...they get a cheap ticket and still can't be bothered! It's sickening...in fact a little bit of bile just came up into my mouth...

 

I'd love to see a sea of silver haired warriors at the ground come tomorrow afternoon...let's make it happen!

[Window Cleaner]

What you're saying is Steve, is that some clubs are being more imaginative in their pricing policy in order to attract supporters. I see many of them have a big ticket cost range. I think Saints could do something more along these lines without alienating season ticket holders.

 

I'm sure that if someone put up the average CCC gates you'd see that we're in the top middle as well.We used to get big crowds,we have a relatively big ground,percentage of seats filled figures mean nothing.

To quote Rupert when he sacked Gray "We"re not building a stadium for the Nationwide".

[lordswoodsaints]

He's a fan. I welcome him to the ground regardless. And encourage him to put his voice to good use...

 

wrong,he is a fan that doesnt contribute,he is a fan that whinges and moans about the state of the club and how we dont have any money but is not willing to put his hand in his pocket to help out his club when it is needed the most.

 

he says he doesnt want to go whilst lowe is in charge,and wont buy a ticket but will go if it is free..........just tell me how that is a fan?

 

you can bet your life that if we get a good cup run (very unlikely i know) he will be the first in the queue to try and get a ticket and also be the loudest moaner when he realises he cant get one.

if you want that type of fan at the club then you are deluded.

 

we need paying fans who support the club through thick and thin,i can even tolerate part time fans/casual supporters,but freeloaders are just parasites.

[Window Cleaner]

I blame (as we love playing the blame game around here) the seniors...they get a cheap ticket and still can't be bothered! It's sickening...in fact a little bit of bile just came up into my mouth...

 

I'd love to see a sea of silver haired warriors at the ground come tomorrow afternoon...let's make it happen!

 

Yes but by those standards you'd have to blame the students and teens as well. They get the same price.Seniors are oft the people with the most money nowadays, index linked pension schemes be praised.