benjii Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Should be cut to £0. Why the **** do we, as a species pour trillions of pounds down the drain to supress foreigners and further our selfish gains whilst some humans scrabble amongst **** and debris to feed their children? It's ****ing disgusting. Billions wasted ****ing around in Afghanistan for no good reason. FFS, it may be a drop in the ocean but for once in our pampered, luxurious, easy lives why don't we take a moral lead and show the way? Maybe some other countries will follow. Let's stop pouring, as a species, trillions of pounds down the drain. Let's try feeding and educating each other instead. Maybe then no one would need a military. Abhorrent and pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Perhaps you should like in Costa Rica? http://www.diplomatmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=321&Itemid= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Without our wars with France the industrial revolution would not have taken place and we wouldn't have built the greatest empire the world will ever see. Defence spending is not so vital today, but we still need to have the ability to have a scrap because you never know what is around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 3 March, 2011 Author Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Oil. Well indeed. We value that more than ensuring that people don't die of preventable diseases. That children have decent sanitation. Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Well indeed. We value that more than ensuring that people don't die of preventable diseases. That children have decent sanitation. Awful. It's not our problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Oil. Well indeed. It is right to ask why we pump such vast sums into defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Talking of oil, i filled my car up with Diesel today and didn't notice it was a "supreme diesel" pump. 147.9p/litre = £86 to fill up and it had a 1/4 of tank already in. I wasn't happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Talking of oil, i filled my car up with Diesel today and didn't notice it was a "supreme diesel" pump. 147.9p/litre = £86 to fill up and it had a 1/4 of tank already in. I wasn't happy. I filled my car up with diesel in Holland on Tuesday (it's all right, it is a diesel car). The price was €1.38 a litre. It's a new Mercedes E350 and I'm getting well over 600 miles on a tankful. Anyway, we drove through the border with Germany at over 70mph. We've all come a long way in the last 65 years, but as Theodore Rooseveldt said: 'speak softly and carry a big stick'. There's also a roman proverb: 'Si vis pacem para bellum' - 'if you wish for peace, prepare for war'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 It is right to ask why we pump such vast sums into defence. Very true. What is surprising..... Defence spending is something like 3% of our GDP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Very true. What is surprising..... Defence spending is something like 3% of our GDP... We have to get our priorities right. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362451/100k-Eastern-European-migrants-free-claim-UK-benefits-EU-ruling.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 In an ideal world we would cut our defence spending to 0%. And in an ideal world, so would everyone else. Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world. Taking the moral lead would only invite people to have a pop, not deter them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 3 March, 2011 Share Posted 3 March, 2011 Very true. What is surprising..... Defence spending is something like 3% of our GDP... ...and that's assuming the figures aren't rigged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerBadger Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Governments and individuals make huge sums from arms and wars, good business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Should be cut to £0. Why the **** do we, as a species pour trillions of pounds down the drain to supress foreigners and further our selfish gains whilst some humans scrabble amongst **** and debris to feed their children? It's ****ing disgusting. Billions wasted ****ing around in Afghanistan for no good reason. FFS, it may be a drop in the ocean but for once in our pampered, luxurious, easy lives why don't we take a moral lead and show the way? Maybe some other countries will follow. Let's stop pouring, as a species, trillions of pounds down the drain. Let's try feeding and educating each other instead. Maybe then no one would need a military. Abhorrent and pathetic. Of all the posters on here off their trolley, I never knew you were one of them. Get rid of defence entirely? Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 I am sure some savings could be found..... £22 for a lightbulb FFS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12643966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersfield Saint Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Perhaps you should like in Costa Rica? http://www.diplomatmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=321&Itemid= I lived in Costa Rica for a year back in 2005 - wonderful place and a shining example of what even a small country can achieve by pumping its defence budget into health and education instead - amongst the highest rates in the world for literacy and life expectancy and the standard of living is good - certainly by Latin American standards. As the article states though they would rely almost entirely on the USA to bail them out if anything ever did kick-off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 I lived in Costa Rica for a year back in 2005 - wonderful place and a shining example of what even a small country can achieve by pumping its defence budget into health and education instead - amongst the highest rates in the world for literacy and life expectancy and the standard of living is good - certainly by Latin American standards. As the article states though they would rely almost entirely on the USA to bail them out if anything ever did kick-off... So, just like us then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 As the article states though they would rely almost entirely on the USA to bail them out if anything ever did kick-off... Precisely. When Britain first, at heaven's command, Arose from out the azure main, Arose, arose, arose from out the a-azure main, This was the charter, the charter of the land, And guardian angels sang this strain: The nations, not so blest as thee, Must in their turn, to tyrants fall, Must in ,must in, must in their turn, to tyrants fall, While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free, The dread and envy of them all. Rule Britannia! Britannia rule the waves. Britons never, never, never shall be slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Should be cut to £0. Why the **** do we, as a species pour trillions of pounds down the drain to supress foreigners and further our selfish gains whilst some humans scrabble amongst **** and debris to feed their children? It's ****ing disgusting. Billions wasted ****ing around in Afghanistan for no good reason. FFS, it may be a drop in the ocean but for once in our pampered, luxurious, easy lives why don't we take a moral lead and show the way? Maybe some other countries will follow. Let's stop pouring, as a species, trillions of pounds down the drain. Let's try feeding and educating each other instead. Maybe then no one would need a military. Abhorrent and pathetic. You've been watching those old Bill Hicks videos again, haven't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 In an ideal world we would cut our defence spending to 0%. And in an ideal world, so would everyone else. Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world. Taking the moral lead would only invite people to have a pop, not deter them. Agreed, although I'm not so sure about the second line. We'll never find out though. The world is pretty *****ed thanks to, in very broad terms, the selfishness of the Human Race, in all its shapes and guises. National disputes and the quest for domination will lead us to pretty much wipe ourselves out if we continue on our current path, and for my kids and their kids sake, I find that really sad. We seemingly don't have the collective capacity to think globally and do what is right for the species as a whole, especially when you look at extreme regimes and their insatiable appetite for power. I often wonder quite how and why we/they got into this position, and there have obviously been a wide variety of contributory factors over hundreds of years. Quite what anyone thinks they will achieve by continuing on our current path I don't know. It won't be reversed in my lifetime and realistically, probably never. We will end up on the brink of extinction at some point, through a combination of factors and we'll just be one more species to tick off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 I am sure some savings could be found..... £22 for a lightbulb FFS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12643966 I would be careful taking these sort of leaks as gospel and then running with them. In my experience of corporate purchasing etc, even if those at the coal face see a "charge", then the actual charge at the payment end after global discounts, retrospecitve rebates, internal costings etc can be massively different. That's if the story is true in the first place (that's not to say that IMHO I do think the MOD and a number of other Whitehall depts are somewhat profligate and not as efficient as perhaps they could be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Agreed, although I'm not so sure about the second line. We'll never find out though. The world is pretty *****ed thanks to, in very broad terms, the selfishness of the Human Race, in all its shapes and guises. National disputes and the quest for domination will lead us to pretty much wipe ourselves out if we continue on our current path, and for my kids and their kids sake, I find that really sad. We seemingly don't have the collective capacity to think globally and do what is right for the species as a whole, especially when you look at extreme regimes and their insatiable appetite for power. I often wonder quite how and why we/they got into this position, and there have obviously been a wide variety of contributory factors over hundreds of years. Quite what anyone thinks they will achieve by continuing on our current path I don't know. It won't be reversed in my lifetime and realistically, probably never. We will end up on the brink of extinction at some point, through a combination of factors and we'll just be one more species to tick off the list. Medical advances will be the human races downfall. In olden times nature thinned out the species, but with vacinations etc the population is out of sync with the resources and in the end nature will prevail. This is why we shouldn't be looking to give aid other nations but should be looking after our own national interests only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 I am sure some savings could be found..... £22 for a lightbulb FFS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12643966 £22 light bulbs and £55 toilet sets usually indicate "opaque" funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Medical advances will be the human races downfall. In olden times nature thinned out the species, but with vacinations etc the population is out of sync with the resources and in the end nature will prevail. This is why we shouldn't be looking to give aid other nations but should be looking after our own national interests only. Stunning, I agree with your first two sentances. But why then is it a national issue and not a global issue? Why should our country 'survive' and others not? Nature will always prevail, which is exactly why, if we wish to survive as a species, we need to moderate our demands of nature and live within its means. If we do that purely on a national basis, some countries will see mass famine and death, whilst others will seek to take what we have by force. Even within countries, as resources become scarce, there will be conflict to take control of them. Selfishness will kill us all. The only way to get around that, IMO, is to think and act globally and start a (very long) process of education and ensuring that a sustainable population has access to the basics they need. That might all sound a bit far-fetched, but it's only what we already see in some parts of the world, and even within some countries. It's not so far fetched to see it happen more widely as (if) population continues to grow, resources become more stretched, and the selfish mentality prevails. And as I said previously, I'm not comfortable inflicting that possibility on my kids, and their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Stunning, I agree with your first two sentances. But why then is it a national issue and not a global issue? Why should our country 'survive' and others not? Nature will always prevail, which is exactly why, if we wish to survive as a species, we need to moderate our demands of nature and live within its means. If we do that purely on a national basis, some countries will see mass famine and death, whilst others will seek to take what we have by force. Exactly and we have be one of the countries with the ability to take what we need with force. It is going to be about survival of the fittest in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Why should we 'take what we need with force'? What divine right do we have to claim ownership of resources in such way? Survival of the fittest, in such circumstances, would probably not lead to much 'survival' at all, now that countries have nuclear capability. What is so wrong with a global conciliatory and co-operative approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Should be cut to £0. Why the **** do we, as a species pour trillions of pounds down the drain to supress foreigners and further our selfish gains whilst some humans scrabble amongst **** and debris to feed their children? It's ****ing disgusting. Billions wasted ****ing around in Afghanistan for no good reason. FFS, it may be a drop in the ocean but for once in our pampered, luxurious, easy lives why don't we take a moral lead and show the way? Maybe some other countries will follow. Let's stop pouring, as a species, trillions of pounds down the drain. Let's try feeding and educating each other instead. Maybe then no one would need a military. Abhorrent and pathetic. Odd boy. Aside from the deterent part of why we need "defense", what about all the people are employed? Let's take it to another level, say we were invaded by another species from elsewhere who wanted to wipe us out, we might all be peaceful, but they might not >> I know it's ludicrous, but no more so than your odd suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Should be cut to £0. Why the **** do we, as a species pour trillions of pounds down the drain to supress foreigners and further our selfish gains whilst some humans scrabble amongst **** and debris to feed their children? It's ****ing disgusting. Billions wasted ****ing around in Afghanistan for no good reason. FFS, it may be a drop in the ocean but for once in our pampered, luxurious, easy lives why don't we take a moral lead and show the way? Maybe some other countries will follow. Let's stop pouring, as a species, trillions of pounds down the drain. Let's try feeding and educating each other instead. Maybe then no one would need a military. Abhorrent and pathetic. benjii Word in your shell-like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Don't drive past a grassy knoll, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Why should we 'take what we need with force'? What divine right do we have to claim ownership of resources in such way? Survival of the fittest, in such circumstances, would probably not lead to much 'survival' at all, now that countries have nuclear capability. What is so wrong with a global conciliatory and co-operative approach? There isn't enough to go around. If we are to protect our standard of living we need to exploit other areas of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 There isn't enough to go around. If we are to protect our standard of living we need to exploit other areas of the world. So, basically, "I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else."? And you think that is sustainable do you? That we can just take from others and live in isolation, and we'll be ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 So, basically, "I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else."? And you think that is sustainable do you? That we can just take from others and live in isolation, and we'll be ok? That is how things will end up. That is how things must end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 So, basically, "I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else."? And you think that is sustainable do you? That we can just take from others and live in isolation, and we'll be ok? Minty, ask yourself a question. WTF are you doing trying to have a debate with Dune about something so serious???? As for it all coming down to a fight for resources, then had this fight taken place a couple of hundred years ago then we might have been well placed to come out on top!!! Now and increasingly going forward, we're a second rank country who will be sniffing around looking for the crumbs left behind by the new and emerging superpowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Minty, ask yourself a question. WTF are you doing trying to have a debate with Dune about something so serious???? Should he instead debate with a failed accountant or a failed chairman of the Saints Trust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 4 March, 2011 Share Posted 4 March, 2011 Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. Success is not final, failure is not fatal it is the courage to continue that counts. All wise words. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Minty, ask yourself a question. WTF are you doing trying to have a debate with Dune about something so serious???? It was Friday afternoon, I was winding down for the weekend and just thought I'd see what happened! I got exactly what I expected so he didn't disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Should he instead debate with a failed accountant or a failed chairman of the Saints Trust? Better that than a failed Human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Better that than a failed Human. The big assumption there Minty is that you are assuming dear ole Dune is a human (although I do believe Neanderthals are included in the Homo genus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 I'm broadly in agreement with benjii. There should be far greater priorities for the country than wars. The UK simply isn't a big enough or rich enough country to strut about policing the world. It would be rational to reduce spending on the military significantly. It won't happen, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 (edited) I'm broadly in agreement with benjii. There should be far greater priorities for the country than wars. The UK simply isn't a big enough or rich enough country to strut about policing the world. It would be rational to reduce spending on the military significantly. It won't happen, though. I kind of agree..but with that, you cant stop at the military...if we are going to look after our own first then do it properly..stop giving aid to countries that spend money on military, let alone nuclear weapons...make sure who we have living here now (no matter what colour, creed etc) are housed, fed and educated (provided they are here legally) and turf out illegals that have no reason to be here... that wont happen either also, with the SDSR the military is getting heavily reduced...... take the navy for example no more carriers no more strike aircraft more than the advertised 5 ships being scrapped not far off 10% reduction in manpower submarines being paid off early in service ships being laid up on "extended readiness" which is odd seeing as we are an island nation and the 95% of our trade (bilions upon billions of £££) comes in and out via the sea..... Edited 5 March, 2011 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 I kind of agree..but with that, you cant stop at the military...if we are going to look after our own first then do it properly..stop giving aid to countries that spend money on military, let alone nuclear weapons...make sure who we have living here now (no matter what colour, creed etc) are housed, fed and educated (provided they are here legally) and turf out illegals that have no reason to be here... that wont happen either also, with the SDSR the military is getting heavily reduced...... take the navy for example no more carriers no more strike aircraft more than the advertised 5 ships being scrapped not far off 10% reduction in manpower submarines being paid off early in service ships being laid up on "extended readiness" which is odd seeing as we are an island nation and the 95% of our trade (bilions upon billions of £££) comes in and out via the sea..... Given the state of the country's finances, I reckon we should consider stopping aid to most other countries entirely, but that's another matter. As for 'turfing out illegals', I guess it might cost a bit of cash to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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