Question for the Positive-Thinkers after the Walsall result

[Faz]

So two wins against other teams in the drop zone, two draws against midtable sides and beaten by a team in the top two, so in fact the only team they beat that wasn't in the relegation zone was us. However people try to spin it and try and be positive this was a TERRIBLE result.

 

The result was terrible.

 

The season's not over.

[Turkish]

i'm pretty positive generally, but I have to agree with you there. It was a terrible result. I'm really hoping it will pull us up short and galvanise us for the next few months....

 

I am too and have defend the team until now, but i getting sick of the excuses, "one of those nights" doesn't wash when the facts clearly show we have failed to beat teams we should blow away 50% of the time this season.

[S-Clarke]

I don't think anyone is accepting the Walsall result, It was a stinker, a shocker - an awful result. Maybe not an awful performance, but that sort of result is not good enough for us now - this is the run in and we have very little margain for error.

 

Leeds had a bad patch (similar to charltons atm) around this time last season and they slipped down to 4th at one point - but they still managed to scrap the points together to get promoted, because of the start they had to the season.

 

Unfortunatley for us - we had a bad start and we haven't got those points to fall back on, which is why every result is now critical for us. We don't have many more oppertunities, I make it that we can only afford 2 more defeats, 4 draws and the rest wins out of our remaining games.

 

I'm still positive that we can do it and i hope the Walsall result is a massive kick up the ********, but I can understand why people are a bit worried.

[SaintRichmond]

Walsall's victory against us as a freak result and try to understand what this really means about the situation at SFC

 

I am a very PT, and if 9/10 on that performancewe would beat Walsall then yes its a freak result. Freak being the operative word here, as I cannot for one moment see any connection between tuesday evening and 'the situation at SFC' whatever that may be!!?? Freak. Please enlighten us what exactly that 'situation' is. Basically we are 5th with 15 games left to play, simple.

 

Why was it Freakish ??? On the night, Walsall SCORED and we didn't

 

Their whole mental attitude was much much better than ours

 

Walsall WANTED the victory, we just ran out EXPECTING it to happen

 

There is only one person to blame for sending out a Team with that attitude, and it aint me

[The9]

You've spoken about the "bad luck" and the "chances created" against Walsall, and how we deserved to win and were "mugged".

 

Dont Bournemouth actually deserve second place, and wouldnt we be "mugging" them if we were to snatch it from them in the last couple of weeks of the season, seeing as they have been there for months ?

 

I think there is some double-standards in your thinking.

 

Hah, your rabble-rousing arguments are getting weaker and weaker - no, the season consists of all of the teams playing all of the other teams twice, come the end of the season where you end up is what you deserve, injury crises, suspensions and "being up there for 6 months" or not. It doesn't necessarily even itself out over a season either, but life's like that.

[alpine_saint]

Hah, your rabble-rousing arguments are getting weaker and weaker - no, the season consists of all of the teams playing all of the other teams twice, come the end of the season where you end up is what you deserve, injury crises, suspensions and "being up there for 6 months" or not. It doesn't necessarily even itself out over a season either, but life's like that.

 

I am still marvelling at how many of you have completely missed the point.

 

I completely agree with your post. Furthermore, I also feel that because Walsall got the little leathery thing between the two big woodeny things and we didnt, over the 90mins, they deserved to win.

 

Therefore I dont get all the people that have come on here, whining about how great we played against Walsall and it was "bad luck" or Saturns conjunction with Uranus or whatever the f**k that denied us the victory we "deserved". And I bet the very same people would have no compunction about us "mugging" Bournemouth for 2nd place during the last game of the season, despite them occupying that place for so much of the season.

 

Still, some people will never get the irony...

[Window Cleaner]

Why was it Freakish ??? On the night, Walsall SCORED and we didn't

 

Their whole mental attitude was much much better than ours

 

Walsall WANTED the victory, we just ran out EXPECTING it to happen

 

There is only one person to blame for sending out a Team with that attitude, and it aint me

 

Oh? I don't doubt that we wanted to win as much as Walsall did but our side is now becoming seriously diminished by injury and

several of our better elements are gone from the line up.If we'd been able to play Ox from the start (or even if he'd been fully fit for 20 minutes) if we'd had Guly in reserve, if Morgan had lasted the 95 minutes everything might have been so much different.These things were not to be unfortunately but we still gave good account of ourselves,just couldn't score that's all.

The fact that they did score is once again down to the fact that we are piling forward all the time and have little composure in our own half.

[scotty]

I am still marvelling at how many of you have completely missed the point.

 

I completely agree with your post. Furthermore, I also feel that because Walsall got the little leathery thing between the two big woodeny things and we didnt, over the 90mins, they deserved to win.

 

Therefore I dont get all the people that have come on here, whining about how great we played against Walsall and it was "bad luck" or Saturns conjunction with Uranus or whatever the f**k that denied us the victory we "deserved". And I bet the very same people would have no compunction about us "mugging" Bournemouth for 2nd place during the last game of the season, despite them occupying that place for so much of the season.

 

Still, some people will never get the irony...

 

A ninety-minute game is slightly different to an entire season.

[dronskisaint]

Irony!!!?

 

'And I bet the very same people would have no compunction about us "mugging" Bournemouth for 2nd place during the last game of the season, despite them occupying that place for so much of the season.'

 

How can finishing above a team that you have more points or a better goal difference than on the final day be construed as mugging them?

 

It's not sense, it's not irony - it is f**king nonsense!

[The9]

I am still marvelling at how many of you have completely missed the point.

 

Perhaps that is because the point was extremely poorly made ?

 

There is no link whatsoever between the concept of being worse [shots on target, possession, comments from both managers] but winning (Walsall), and the idea of being better (more points over the 46 games) but winning (Saints if they finished above Bournemouth).

 

The analogy is even MORE weak because one of the reasons they're "deservedly" in 2nd is because at the moment they've played more matches and had the opportunity to win more points than three of their immediate rivals.

[Toadhall Saint]

You've spoken about the "bad luck" and the "chances created" against Walsall, and how we deserved to win and were "mugged".

 

Dont Bournemouth actually deserve second place, and wouldnt we be "mugging" them if we were to snatch it from them in the last couple of weeks of the season, seeing as they have been there for months ?

 

I think there is some double-standards in your thinking.

 

Don't agree Alps - if we have more points than B'muff at the end of the season then we wouldn't have mugged them we would be there on merit.

[alpine_saint]

There is no link whatsoever between the concept of being worse [shots on target, possession, comments from both managers] but winning (Walsall), and the idea of being better (more points over the 46 games) but winning (Saints if they finished above Bournemouth).

 

Of course there is !! What a ridiculous comment ! All those issues you listed for Walsall dont determine the result of a game; only goals do, in the same way points determine table position.

 

The point is that there are some people inferring or explicitly saying Walsalls win was undeserved despite them scoring, who will then say "we got more points than Bournemouth, we deserve to finish above them" if it happens !

 

The analogy is even MORE weak because one of the reasons they're "deservedly" in 2nd is because at the moment they've played more matches and had the opportunity to win more points than three of their immediate rivals.

 

Yep, they are deservedly there. No "" about it. They've played, they've got the points in the bag. We demonstrated spectacularly on Tuesday that points in the bag is better than games in hand. And you only made this point because you (still) arrogantly expect us to win the games in hand, so have learned absolutely nothing from Tuesday's debacle !

[Frank's cousin]

Alps, can see what you are getting at. Bournemouth deserve second place at the moment because they ahve more points - won more games etc. If we are second at the end of the season it will be for the same reasons - and teh table wont lie.

 

We have a squad and IMHO a manager who are quite capable of securing promotion. If we dont, I really dont think it will be through lack of effort, but perhaps a bit of bottle and maybe ...bad luck... they say it evens out over a sseason, so maybe thats our dose and we can move on, but we cant deny that we dominated Walsll had plenty of chnaces to score and on another day would have hammered them... but for me that unpredictablity is what makes this game so compelling and interesting - foregonconclusions may be better for teh nerves, but would make for a dull spectactle. If we dont go up, well thats life, I support Saints whatever division, so we just crack on next year, but I suspect teh season run run has plenty of twists and turns yet and will be exciting. ... and as we have beatenBournemouth twice this season already, if we do pip them to it, we will have deserved it.

[alpine_saint]

Don't agree Alps - if we have more points than B'muff at the end of the season then we wouldn't have mugged them we would be there on merit.

 

Jesus - I agree !!!

 

In the same was Walsall deserved to beat us because they scored !!!

[eurosaint]

The OP says :

"Question for the positive thinkers after the Walsall result"

Personally I cannot think of any situation in sport ,or life in general for that matter, where a positive mental attitude is not advantageous !

Sure the Walsall result was krap but Adkins, the players and we supporters will gain nothing by being negative !

The thread headline seems to imply that 'positive thinkers' are in some way deluded which would be total nonsense !

Personally, I will continue to be 'positive' whatever transpires between now and the end of the season, as there is absolutely no better option !

[The9]

Jesus - I agree !!!

 

In the same was Walsall deserved to beat us because they scored !!!

 

But it's still an entirely different set of circumstances. Your analogy would only be relevant if we'd been playing well and leading all match and they'd been playing pretty well and then scored late goals to win it, which didn't happen.

 

Walsall were fundamentally a bit crap and took their chance well, Saints finished badly and lost.

 

So you're basically suggesting that this season Saints are generally crap but opportunistic, and AFCB are doing really well but it isn't translating into success. That patently isn't true.

[scotty]

More to the point, I'm at a loss to understand what alps wants us to do about it. Its all well and good to categorise posters as negative or positive thinkers, but could we really have signed any players better than we have done? who were prepared to play in this division? As for the manager, how many were there available to choose from that had already taken a team up from this division or were more familiar with it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Lambert and Barnard the top scorers in League One? Plus we managed to keep hold of Lallana and AOC against a lot of predictions. If you look at other fan websites they consistently say we have the best squad in the division. There was even a link to the brighton site posted on here recently where somebody said he'd predicted that Saints would be their biggest rivals this season, another brighton fan (probably his boyfriend) said wow, so you predicted that the club with the most money, the best players and the biggest fanbase etc etc...... What else is there to do? If somebody who was at the game would tell me if there was a lack of effort from the players I could understand it, but in the games Ive seen this season that has not been an issue.

[dune]

So two wins against other teams in the drop zone, two draws against midtable sides and beaten by a team in the top two, so in fact the only team they beat that wasn't in the relegation zone was us. However people try to spin it and try and be positive this was a TERRIBLE result.

 

I wouldn't go that far. Theyre a team in our league for starters and it was away from home so losing by one goal isn't terrible. We had the bulk of the play but didn't score therefore it's not like they murdered us. The week before we scored 4 goals and could've score more so we know we can score. It was just one of those games.

[dune]

I am still marvelling at how many of you have completely missed the point.

 

Or maybe most people are disapointed but they put the result into context.

[alpine_saint]

More to the point, I'm at a loss to understand what alps wants us to do about it. Its all well and good to categorise posters as negative or positive thinkers, but could we really have signed any players better than we have done? who were prepared to play in this division? As for the manager, how many were there available to choose from that had already taken a team up from this division or were more familiar with it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Lambert and Barnard the top scorers in League One? Plus we managed to keep hold of Lallana and AOC against a lot of predictions. If you look at other fan websites they consistently say we have the best squad in the division. There was even a link to the brighton site posted on here recently where somebody said he'd predicted that Saints would be their biggest rivals this season, another brighton fan (probably his boyfriend) said wow, so you predicted that the club with the most money, the best players and the biggest fanbase etc etc...... What else is there to do? If somebody who was at the game would tell me if there was a lack of effort from the players I could understand it, but in the games Ive seen this season that has not been an issue.

 

OK, if there is nothing to be done, lets give up.

 

Look if we dont go up this season, and seeing as most likely we will lose Lallana, Rickie, Morgan, Fonte, etc, etc, maybe....just maybe next season we should try to walk before running - build a team to get out of League One, before we start worrying how much of it is skillful enough to be re-used for NPC and Premier League campaigns. I am of the opinion the egos are too big and fragile, and the sort of physicality/stamina/skill combination is not right for this division.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

....just maybe next season we should try to walk before running - build a team to get out of League One, before we start worrying how much of it is skillful enough to be re-used for NPC and Premier League campaigns. I am of the opinion the egos are too big and fragile, and the sort of physicality/stamina/skill combination is not right for this division.

 

There is a shred of truth to this but the players we have should be good enough to carry us out of this division, even if they do not meet expectations at times. We've seen how they can perform against teams in a higher division, it's just grinding our results and nous at this level where we suffer at times. Take the rough with the smooth.

[dune]

OK, if there is nothing to be done, lets give up.

 

Look if we dont go up this season, and seeing as most likely we will lose Lallana, Rickie, Morgan, Fonte, etc, etc, maybe....just maybe next season we should try to walk before running - build a team to get out of League One, before we start worrying how much of it is skillful enough to be re-used for NPC and Premier League campaigns. I am of the opinion the egos are too big and fragile, and the sort of physicality/stamina/skill combination is not right for this division.

 

All based on what he hears on solent.

[broncoboy]

Let just spell it out to people again. We have dropped 14 points in 10 games against the bottom 7, teams fighting relegation. P10, W5, D1, L4. We have lost nearly half of our games against teams in the bottom four and in our defeats failed to score in any of the games.

 

This is the whole point our inability to deal with the bread and butter games where you need to crank out a win.

 

For me we lack a certain grit. Guly is a prime example. Lovely touches but is not the man to muscle his way against a League 1 defender.

 

Now if we could only mix him together with Barney we might get the player we need.

 

There will be no promotion this year

[Thedelldays]

at the end of the day, tuesday nights results was an absolute disgrace...being below bournemouth for as long as we have is an absolute disgrace...

and this is from mr positive 2011..

 

we have to go up and we have to win sat....if we fail to win sat then it will look more likely that it will be playoffs at best....im sure we would beat anyone at home in the playoffs but I fear for us away in that scenario..

 

what a let down so far...to be fair, adkins has done as well as the team at the top...which is pretty good, but we need to be more than pretty good

[scotty]

OK, if there is nothing to be done, lets give up.

 

Look if we dont go up this season, and seeing as most likely we will lose Lallana, Rickie, Morgan, Fonte, etc, etc, maybe....just maybe next season we should try to walk before running - build a team to get out of League One, before we start worrying how much of it is skillful enough to be re-used for NPC and Premier League campaigns. I am of the opinion the egos are too big and fragile, and the sort of physicality/stamina/skill combination is not right for this division.

 

so basically, the players we have are too skilful for this division? Interesting that Turks was saying the worst thing about the Walsall game was how we resorted to hoofball, and he saw the game so he'd know better than you or I would.

[St Marco]

I agree with a lot of what has been said but i do think we need to get behind the team now more then ever. We haven't had the best results recently but we are still in the chase for 2nd.

As of right now Bournemouth deserve to be where they are. They have been far more consistent then us and with everything they have been through you have to take your hat off to them. It is frustrating we are not in the top 2 right now but it doesn't mean we can't be by the end of the season, we do still have quite a few games to play. But a lot of those games now look quite difficult on paper. A lot of away games.

 

Adkins has not done as good as the guys at the top. If you actually base the results from the 6th game point which was his first game in charge we actually are 3rd on his results. Nicks table although correct actually misses out a whole bunch of games that took place only hours before he took over. Meaning we start at game 6 and everyone else starts at game 7. It isn't a fair account of the results as basically gives him a head start.

 

Point being Adkins hasen't done that well in my opinion. Some stats are used to make it appear good when if you look at others they sort of cancel the good stats out. He has almost as many losses as we had for the entire season last year under Pardew. In a far easier league in my view. But i have faith that he will come good in the end. He clearly cares about the club and cares about winning games. I am sure with every bad result he is just as annoyed as us lot. He isn't here for a pay cheque i really do think he has the desire to want to win stuff. The question is does he have the talent to back it up? We will see by the end of the season but i think until then we really do all need to pull in the same direction. Even if we finish 5th we are in the playoffs and still have a chance. It really doesn't matter to me how we go up just that we do go up and do so this year. Anything else and it would be mission failed. I am sure i am not alone in thinking i am so bored of this league now.

[saint lard]

The players are underperforming both individually and collectively.

Adkins is underperforming for not rectifying this.

Adkins is underperforming for not getting the best out of what he has at his disposal.

Adkins is not getting the consistancy out of the side,if and when we combine a victory and a positive performance,this is hit and miss and very sporadic,he is underperforming again.

 

Contrast this to both Brighton and Bournemouth,what a season they are having with their resources available.If we were to pip one of them to 2nd place i feel we would have mugged them.Happy as i would be at the thought of going up we would not have been the 2nd best side in the league,by far.

We are **** poor in comparison.

Brighton and Bournemouth are 'worlds apart' from us,all due respect but by christ compare to what we have compared to them,both on the pitch and off.

The same 'worlds apart' as Scunny and us,yet we intsall their manager.

 

You can do nothing but admire what both Brighton and Bournemouth have done,us however...???

Edited 3 March, 2011 by saint lard

[Cabrone]

We seem to lack the mental toughness needed to get to top 2 at the moment. Also Ricky Lambert hasn't found consistent form all season and that's seriously affected us.

 

I agree with Alpine's comment that when we come up against a team that backs off us we murder them but when we come up against a team that wants to give us a fight we flounder.

 

We need to find the mental grit to dig in and grind out consistent results, when we did it at Exeter I was really hopeful that we'd turned a corner but with this last result it seems we've we've fallen again.

 

I can only hope that the Walsall result will have mentally kicked the players right in the guts and made them understand that they are in a real dogfight.

 

Toughen up Saints!

[Saint Without a Halo]

How did you come to that figure?

 

15 games x 3 points = 45 points to play for

 

He is factoring in at least 3 more poor performances as a given! hence the 9 difference maybe!

[David Strover]

I thought Adkins was a good manager but with this reasonable squad at his disposal and plenty of time to get things working the way he wants I find quite a few recent results unacceptable (particularly as we are now really heading into the really important stage of the season where we just can't afford to drop points).

 

It would be interesting to get his reasons for it. Without the cliche engine switched on of course.

 

Tranmere Rovers, Hartlepool United and Walsall are hardly power-houses at home and we managed one point and no goals against them from a possible nine. Peterborough cannot stop leaking goals yet we threw away a two goal lead twice against them and didn't seem to know how to play the game at 4-2 up. Brentford, Notts County at home - unacceptable. Then we hammer Huddersfield and Oldham and score freely against other teams.

 

If you aren't a Saints fan and look at our resources from finance, fanbase, stadium and players you would say that our current position is really poor.

 

Negative I know but you can blame my views on Southampton FC, they've driven me to these conclusions and no one else.

 

Yes despite it being Thursday night I am still mightly f*cked off about Tuesday night.

 

And for the record the next two games - Colchester 0-0, Yeovil 1-1 - then see the sh*t hit the fan!

[NickG]

Um... Whoever is second in the league table when the season ends deserves second place.

 

This. Plus only really comparable when played same amount of games. Would much rather 6 points than 2 games in hand but if we win those are above them fair and square.

[Turkish]

so basically, the players we have are too skilful for this division? Interesting that Turks was saying the worst thing about the Walsall game was how we resorted to hoofball, and he saw the game so he'd know better than you or I would.

 

It got to the point in the second half as we chased the game when it was embarasssing at times, 3 or 4 occasions a pitching wedge of a lump forward resulted in Lambert and Barnard going for the same ball, crashing into each other with neither winning it and it being cleared or being flicked on harmlessly to a defender in plenty of time and space to clear. Granted it wasn't like that for 90 minutes, first half we played some decent stuff at times but the longer the game went on and particularly after they scored the more clueless we appeared and the more we resorted to punts in the air.

[hoozonside10]

I thought Adkins was a good manager but with this reasonable squad at his disposal and plenty of time to get things working the way he wants I find quite a few recent results unacceptable (particularly as we are now really heading into the really important stage of the season where we just can't afford to drop points).

 

It would be interesting to get his reasons for it. Without the cliche engine switched on of course.

 

Tranmere Rovers, Hartlepool United and Walsall are hardly power-houses at home and we managed one point and no goals against them from a possible nine. Peterborough cannot stop leaking goals yet we threw away a two goal lead twice against them and didn't seem to know how to play the game at 4-2 up. Brentford, Notts County at home - unacceptable. Then we hammer Huddersfield and Oldham and score freely against other teams.

 

If you aren't a Saints fan and look at our resources from finance, fanbase, stadium and players you would say that our current position is really poor.

 

Negative I know but you can blame my views on Southampton FC, they've driven me to these conclusions and no one else.

 

Yes despite it being Thursday night I am still mightly f*cked off about Tuesday night.

 

And for the record the next two games - Colchester 0-0, Yeovil 1-1 - then see the sh*t hit the fan!

 

That's an interesting point, if you had asked me on Monday if I would have been happy with a draw at Colchester this Saturday then , hell - yeah! But now the pressure is on to win. Obviously we need to win against Yeovil as it will be like the Swindon game - a 3 points no brainer.

 

I guess that a draw against Colchester should be seen as a reasonable result, but I fear it would be doom and gloom....The Walsall result has definitely racked up the pressure on NA and the team, the next two games will be telling.

[Chez]

god help anyone with a positive outlook venturing on here should we fail to win on Saturday. They'll be skinned alive.

[hypochondriac]

god help anyone with a positive outlook venturing on here should we fail to win on Saturday. They'll be skinned alive.

 

Not sure how anyone could look at things positively should we lose Saturday.

[Chez]

I said have a positive outlook as in, "we can still get promoted" etc.

[Nexstar]

Not sure how anyone could look at things positively should we lose Saturday.

 

You must be fun to live with.

[theyin]

There's a history of so called big clubs lingering in this division for 2 or three seasons, aka Leeds & Forest, are we to be the next? My Forest mate reckons its a psychological thing that extends from the boardroom to the stands which inhibits the club clambering out at the first attempt....though of course City did it. With Bournemouth there is no pressure, expectation etc. Lightening the load in this way can only be a bonus. Unfortunately 27 years in the top flight (which any other clubs' fanbase will always give us massive credit for) has clouded our perception of where we 'belong'. I'm guilty, I'm sure others are as well.

[David Strover]

There's a history of so called big clubs lingering in this division for 2 or three seasons, aka Leeds & Forest, are we to be the next? My Forest mate reckons its a psychological thing that extends from the boardroom to the stands which inhibits the club clambering out at the first attempt....though of course City did it. With Bournemouth there is no pressure, expectation etc. Lightening the load in this way can only be a bonus. Unfortunately 27 years in the top flight (which any other clubs' fanbase will always give us massive credit for) has clouded our perception of where we 'belong'. I'm guilty, I'm sure others are as well.

 

This is definitely a very good point BUT as it stands within the division we aren't a bad team and we had some reasonable and even very good players. There is no excuse for constantly being unable to beat teams away from home in the bottom half of the table. If we don't get promoted this season (I'm beginning that it was all a pipe dream after our poor start to the season) what's gonna happen next season?

 

Are we going to throw money (in League One terms) at more players to get us out of the division? With the way the club is run (as a business) I find this unlikely therefore if we can't make it out of the division within the remaining games we could well be stuck here for some time - we won't pull in 22k or more every week if that happens and then the spiral starts again.

 

I think we might be a pretty average lower league club for quite a few years if we don't get it right this season.

 

Just my opinion and I won't be slitting my wrists or beating people up or crying all the time - but I reserve the right to be depressed about my football club and not let it leak into the other aspects of my life.

Edited 4 March, 2011 by David Strover

[dubai_phil]

We seem to lack the mental toughness needed to get to top 2 at the moment. Also Ricky Lambert hasn't found consistent form all season and that's seriously affected us.

 

I agree with Alpine's comment that when we come up against a team that backs off us we murder them but when we come up against a team that wants to give us a fight we flounder.

 

We need to find the mental grit to dig in and grind out consistent results, when we did it at Exeter I was really hopeful that we'd turned a corner but with this last result it seems we've we've fallen again.

 

I can only hope that the Walsall result will have mentally kicked the players right in the guts and made them understand that they are in a real dogfight.

 

Toughen up Saints!

 

This.

 

Players are in League 1 for a reason. They are either not good enough for the PL in terms of ability or in terms of mental strength.

 

It seems to me that we have players with ability but not with mental strength. (Where is Paul Wotton when you need him for example - dire footballer by all accounts BUT makes up for it?)

 

It also isn't just about effort or giving 110%, it is about mental attitude. That doesn't get solved by amateur psychology players either have it or they don't. If it was so easy for a Manager to impart that mental attitude then the world of football would be full of Jimmy Cases'.

 

The fact is that if someone does not have it, then no matter how much a Manager tries to nurture and encourage it, they still won't have it.

 

IF "Elite Performace" was purely down to ability then how come different golfers win tournaments just about every week? Why did Tiger Woods used to win so often? (with so many faults in his technique that he had to keep rebuidling his swing) Why did Spurs lose 3-1 away at Blackburn? Why haven't Man City walked the PL?

 

Managers can work with what they have got, they can set up a shape, tactics and push players to expend energy levels during the match, but getting right inside someones head? That doesn't happen (eg remember David James being karp in goal in a game for England? He'd been up all night playing PS2 - that MENTAL issue wouldn't have been spotted by the manager.

 

Circadian rythms, Bad night's sleep, stress, rows with the missus can impact on performance.

 

So, you can find players of limited ability with the RIGHT mental attitude (like Bournemouth appear to have done) then an average manager can generate the atmosphereto make them outperform.

A bunch of Prima Donnas with the wrong attitude? Sorry, even Jose or Fergie wouldn't be able to create.

 

I think we have the wrong players for this type of league. MOST of those were bought by AP, not by NA, and MOST of them were vetted by our team of Scouts who are controlled by Les Reed. Les may be a fine person, but his mental toughness was exposed by his time in charge at Charlton, and they for sure seem to be a team of wimps even to this day.

[Turkish]

There's a history of so called big clubs lingering in this division for 2 or three seasons, aka Leeds & Forest, are we to be the next? My Forest mate reckons its a psychological thing that extends from the boardroom to the stands which inhibits the club clambering out at the first attempt....though of course City did it. With Bournemouth there is no pressure, expectation etc. Lightening the load in this way can only be a bonus. Unfortunately 27 years in the top flight (which any other clubs' fanbase will always give us massive credit for) has clouded our perception of where we 'belong'. I'm guilty, I'm sure others are as well.

 

You can tell me when you go to places like Exeter, Walsall, Hartlepool and Dagenham and play in front of 3-4,000 fans that we belong in league one though, surely?

[dubai_phil]

You can tell me when you go to places like Exeter, Walsall, Hartlepool and Dagenham and play in front of 3-4,000 fans that we belong in league one though, surely?

 

As a Football Club

 

We DESERVE to be here

 

We do not BELONG here

 

Slight difference

 

As fans, we just have to follow the club and we do NOT deserve what happened to us, but then that's life

[sandwichsaint]

This.

 

Players are in League 1 for a reason. They are either not good enough for the PL in terms of ability or in terms of mental strength.

 

It seems to me that we have players with ability but not with mental strength. (Where is Paul Wotton when you need him for example - dire footballer by all accounts BUT makes up for it?)

 

It also isn't just about effort or giving 110%, it is about mental attitude. That doesn't get solved by amateur psychology players either have it or they don't. If it was so easy for a Manager to impart that mental attitude then the world of football would be full of Jimmy Cases'.

 

The fact is that if someone does not have it, then no matter how much a Manager tries to nurture and encourage it, they still won't have it.

 

IF "Elite Performace" was purely down to ability then how come different golfers win tournaments just about every week? Why did Tiger Woods used to win so often? (with so many faults in his technique that he had to keep rebuidling his swing) Why did Spurs lose 3-1 away at Blackburn? Why haven't Man City walked the PL?

 

Managers can work with what they have got, they can set up a shape, tactics and push players to expend energy levels during the match, but getting right inside someones head? That doesn't happen (eg remember David James being karp in goal in a game for England? He'd been up all night playing PS2 - that MENTAL issue wouldn't have been spotted by the manager.

 

Circadian rythms, Bad night's sleep, stress, rows with the missus can impact on performance.

 

So, you can find players of limited ability with the RIGHT mental attitude (like Bournemouth appear to have done) then an average manager can generate the atmosphereto make them outperform.

A bunch of Prima Donnas with the wrong attitude? Sorry, even Jose or Fergie wouldn't be able to create.

 

I think we have the wrong players for this type of league. MOST of those were bought by AP, not by NA, and MOST of them were vetted by our team of Scouts who are controlled by Les Reed. Les may be a fine person, but his mental toughness was exposed by his time in charge at Charlton, and they for sure seem to be a team of wimps even to this day.

 

Interesting thoughts and this has crossed my mind on more than a few occaisions - standing at Walsall, 1-0 down and mindlessly hoofing it down blind alleys and watching Walsall defend doggedly and then pick us off with some neat passing and counter-attacking I thought it again.

 

All we have to do to be successful is sign 11 'Walsall' players - no more Ricky, no more Kelvin, no more Dan, no more Adam even - we haven't been overly successful with these players, we pay them a fortune by league one standards, yet they are regularly found wanting in terms of playing consistent, winning football. Let's get 11 of those Walsall boys in, think how good they would be with the facilites, opportunities, crowds, that Saints could offer them. They are pretty good playing on carp pitches and playing in front of carp crowds .. think how 'good' they would be playing for a better team! But is that really a true analogy?

 

As soon as they moved to SMS they would move straight into the 'Saints bubble', away from training on school playing fields, riding round in mini-buses and playing for the money to sustain their modest lifestyles, and into a situation where they joined a mini, in all-but-wages, 'Premier League Club'. The best of training, the best of sports science, the best of treatment, a fantastic pitch and stadium, big crowds etc etc. How long would they remain the same players and with the same attributes that make them effective for Walsall or Tranmere or Hartlepool? The reality is they would fall into the 'lifestyle' in a matter of weeks.

 

Saints/NC/NA are performing a very difficult juggling act trying to balance our costs/squad size with the need to get out of L1, we need to get out of L1 asap but we don't want to spend more than is necessary; what's the answer? Brighton and Bompey have found a model that works for them but is it the right model for us? In the real world you might say 'performance related pay' £1000/week (!) basic and £5000/win - nothing for a draw(!), although of course people will tell you 'that football doesn't work like that'. The reality is that a lot of Saints players live and work at a level that is far in excess of most of their peers - fairly much regardless of 'performance', call it a comfort zone if you will. Could it be that a lot of the players have no real incentive to gain promotion? If the better ones want to move up a league then all they have to do is change clubs, for the lower ones if we move up a league they will also be changing clubs - to one that has cold showers and where you wash your own kit!

 

Have to say in all this that I think NC may have steered the wrong balance between 'Ambition' and 'Consolidation', looking at our current position (great set-up, good team, good manager, great fans! BUT struggling to win winnable games and to make the top two in a weak League one) I find talk of the PL, the CL!, and a 50K stadium!! faintly embarassing, it demotivates me every bit as much as it enthuses me, although I know that many fans lap it up (cue the number of posts this week of people who 'have had enough of this carp league'). Is it not somewhat ironical that it is the 'pressure' and the 'expectation' that is probably making it so difficult to get out of this league?

 

Have to think that if we came out tomorrow and said that we are keeping Adkins for the next three seasons we would be further on and in a better place in three year times, than if we have three more mangers over the next three seasons, and who would bet against that at the moment?

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

There is a difference between saying we were unlucky and saying the Walsall didn't deserve to win. I don't think anyone is saying that. we went with a game plan and lost (arguably) our best midfielder within minutes, despite that start (and some lumpen football) we went on to create numerous chances which didn't go in, whilst Walsall took one of their few chances with aplomb.

 

There really is nothing more or less to it. so picking the Walsall game (disappointing as it is) and saying that this ONE game is an indicator of our promotional hopes is ridiculous.

 

I was fuming Tuesday night, but then by Wednesday I'd had time to get things into PERSPECTIVE there is still plenty of time and plenty of points to play for, we've not made it easy for ourselves but who knows how things will pan out.

 

Football is a 'funny old game' and quite often the result doesn't go the way of the form book, or even the performance on the day. Earlier on in the season Sunderland Battered Blackpool and created loads of chances, Blackpool created 2 scoring opportunities and won 2-0... what does that tell you about either teams long term prospects? **** all, that's what.... it was a SINGLE game.

[Whitey Grandad]

There is a difference between saying we were unlucky and saying the Walsall didn't deserve to win. I don't think anyone is saying that. we went with a game plan and lost (arguably) our best midfielder within minutes, despite that start (and some lumpen football) we went on to create numerous chances which didn't go in, whilst Walsall took one of their few chances with aplomb.

 

There really is nothing more or less to it. so picking the Walsall game (disappointing as it is) and saying that this ONE game is an indicator of our promotional hopes is ridiculous.

 

I was fuming Tuesday night, but then by Wednesday I'd had time to get things into PERSPECTIVE there is still plenty of time and plenty of points to play for, we've not made it easy for ourselves but who knows how things will pan out.

 

Football is a 'funny old game' and quite often the result doesn't go the way of the form book, or even the performance on the day. Earlier on in the season Sunderland Battered Blackpool and created loads of chances, Blackpool created 2 scoring opportunities and won 2-0... what does that tell you about either teams long term prospects? **** all, that's what.... it was a SINGLE game.

 

But there have also been other SINGLE games.

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

But there have also been other SINGLE games.

 

Indeed and they have all been of concern, but how many under Adkins, with this group of players? That's the main concern for me, what happened under Pards/Wilkins and before we signed Chaplow, Guly etc... is not really relevant (apart from that it has given us this uphill struggle) because it's in the past.

 

We've also had other 'Single' Wins, which never get picked over and analysed in the same level of detail as the results that haven't gone our way.

 

The reason we are in this position at all (which could still be 2nd on GD IF we win our games in hand) is more to do with the shocking start to the season than it is to do with Adkins or the January transfer window... IMHO

[suewhistle]

I didn't bother reading the post-match thread nor this one. It's one thing have a depressing result and completely another reading the unoriginal and completely predictable wallowing in misery. Once again we get a thread with a negative leading question as the title from an unsurprising source. I may come back later and read a bit but fortunately have better things to do.

[alpine_saint]

I didn't bother reading the post-match thread nor this one. It's one thing have a depressing result and completely another reading the unoriginal and completely predictable wallowing in misery. Once again we get a thread with a negative leading question as the title from an unsurprising source. I may come back later and read a bit but fortunately have better things to do.

 

Why bother with the attention-seeking post on this thread then ?

[Gingeletiss]

Why bother with the attention-seeking post on this thread then ?

 

Pot and bl00dy kettle methinks!

[alpine_saint]

Pot and bl00dy kettle methinks!

 

Since when have I gone on a thread and posted "I didnt bother reading this", the ultimate stupid attention-seeking comment ?

 

I pity you if you regard my posts as attention-seeking just because you dont like the message.