Turkish Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Yep, agree with you completely. I swear some people on here are so detached from reality that they must be posting from nice NHS institutions that do a snazzy line in rubber wallpaper.... Ot some darkened Cellar in middle Europe with a table covered in empty packets of crisps and chocolate cars and half finished 2 litre coke bottles.
Alain Perrin Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 It's horses for courses though, i'd start with Barnard every time on a wet ,cold February night away from home when the match is going to be a battle first, passing football second. Gully is a good footballer but not going to be at his best in those conditions. Adkins seems to preach the horses for courses notto but not practise it. Disagree. Adkins does change things according to the opposition (Jaidi / Seabourne - lump it vs. run it teams, is a good example). We are not badly placed and fortunately results haven't gone against us. In fact we have weathered the loss of Lallana well and, with him coming back, hopefully results will pick up. I agree Barnard over Gully in the situation you describe, but maybe Gully was selected for other reasons (height is more important on a ****ty pitch etc.) Regardless of who our manager is, we have a big strong squad. With luck this will pay off as fixture congestion and injuries hit other teams harder. The season isn't over.
labibs Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Adkins brief when hired was to get us out of this division. I'm sure of that and if he doesn't do it, I think it will have to be labelled a failure. I just don't think we can start to panic yet, but until we have played Bournemouth away and got through our games in hand. If we win all those game and go say, six point clear in 2nd place, all the fretting will look a little premature. Definitely agree that I would like to see Barnard start more tricky away games. His persistence and hard work can really help us.
Viking Warrior Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 We only moan when were'e winning We only moan when were'e winning Moan when were winning We only moan when were'e Drawing We only moan when were'e Drawing Moan when were drawing We only moan when were'e Losing We only moan when were'e losing Moan when were losing
NickG Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Its strange that he doesn't acknowledge, in his post match interviews, what many on here know - it is impossible for him now to get us promoted. I think he should admit his failure, it is obvious to all, and fall on his sword.
Deppo Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I swear some people on here are so detached from reality that they must be posting from nice NHS institutions that do a snazzy line in rubber wallpaper.... I happen to be posting from one of these institutions. You make me sick, judging me because of my mental health. Just because I like to masturbate in public, doesn't mean my opinion on Saints is any less valid. You might as well be saying that, if I was black or gay, that would be reason to dismiss my opinion on Saints too? Well, I am black and gay. Racist homophobe. Incidentally, I showed some of your posts to one of the doctors the other day. He said he thought you'd make a fascinating case.
Saint Billy Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I happen to be posting from one of these institutions. You make me sick, judging me because of my mental health. Just because I like to masturbate in public, doesn't mean my opinion on Saints is any less valid. You might as well be saying that, if I was black or gay, that would be reason to dismiss my opinion on Saints too? Well, I am black and gay. Racist homophobe. Incidentally, I showed some of your posts to one of the doctors the other day. He said he thought you'd make a fascinating case. I think I am in the same ward as you, I am the Mexican in the corner underneath the sombrero smoking cigars!
Deppo Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I think I am in the same ward as you, I am the Mexican in the corner underneath the sombrero smoking cigars! How many more times do we have to tell you: you are NOT Mexican.
Pedro Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Its strange that he doesn't acknowledge, in his post match interviews, what many on here know - it is impossible for him now to get us promoted. I think he should admit his failure, it is obvious to all, and fall on his sword. Are you serious, how is it impossible to get us promoted.
doddisalegend Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Are you serious, how is it impossible to get us promoted. ummm no he's not Nick is the forums eternal optimist he is the ying to the the wrist slashers yang.
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 How many more times do we have to tell you: you are NOT Mexican. Do you remember that time when we made Elton John & Dame Edna Everage dolls and tortured them, it was brilliant. I liked it when we hung them from the ceiling and set fire to their feet. It was such fun, what followed was better when we told the wardens we were torturing our celebrity nemesys. I still cant believe they outlawed pin down, i used to love that, reminded me of being 7 again at boarding school.
saintjay77 Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I think overall Adkins has done well but what I find really frustrating is how he decides the ground is a tough place to go and the pitch is not the best so he resorts to playing hoof ball for about 75 minutes of the match and switches it to passing for the last 15 mins. Only then do we usually look like we are going to get something from the game. It happened at Exeter and again at Hartlepool. It doesnt do us any favours and most of us agree that the team played crap. Sometimes he gets them playing fast passing football on the floor and we can look amazing and ready to challenge for the top spots. He mentioned the pitch wasnt the best at Exeter and I watched us play hoof ball while Exeter passed the ball around us. They looked by far the better passing team for most of the match. The 1st time we played some passing footy there was a neat 1-2 that got N'Guessen in down the left and his cross found Lamberts head for the goal. Every time we are expecting to play on a dodgy pitch we resort to long ball that gets us nowhere. If Adkins can come up with a better solution for playing on crap pitches then I dont think we will have any problems. We would at least look like we are a half decent team and would be able to cause problems.
Crab Lungs Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I'm not too concerned about nervous Nige, I'm more concerned about our supporters and their uncontrollable mood swings. When we went 2nd, many almost combusted with excitement yet since we've slipped from 2nd to 5th (!) and with 2-3 games in hand on our rivals, all of a sudden a 0-0 seems to send people reaching for the knives in the kitchen drawer again.
Papa Shango Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I'm not too concerned about nervous Nige, I'm more concerned about our supporters and their uncontrollable mood swings. When we went 2nd, many almost combusted with excitement yet since we've slipped from 2nd to 5th (!) and with 2-3 games in hand on our rivals, all of a sudden a 0-0 seems to send people reaching for the knives in the kitchen drawer again. Agree. I remember after the Oldham game all the talk was about when, not if we would overtake Brighton at the top. Now, according to some we'll be lucky to even make the play-offs (despite losing 1 in the last 10 games).
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I'm not too concerned about nervous Nige, I'm more concerned about our supporters and their uncontrollable mood swings. When we went 2nd, many almost combusted with excitement yet since we've slipped from 2nd to 5th (!) and with 2-3 games in hand on our rivals, all of a sudden a 0-0 seems to send people reaching for the knives in the kitchen drawer again. according to a survery Southampton has the highest rate of schizophrenia per 1000 of the population in the world. Make of that what you will.
Crab Lungs Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Agree. I remember after the Oldham game all the talk was about when, not if we would overtake Brighton at the top. Now, according to some we'll be lucky to even make the play-offs (despite losing 1 in the last 10 games). Haha, that's exactly it. I just don't get how anyone can all swing so wildly from one end of the optimism pendulum to the other in such a short space of time. I am a great believer in performance levels are a great indicator of how good a team is (Not a massive fan of the commonly-held "winning when playing bad" theory) however teams do have off-days and, in a 46 game league season, it's unlikely you'll go undefeated or pick up the odd disappointing result here and there. We'll be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, it's just strange watching any rationality of the situation disappear after one or two indifferent results/performances. We're still very much in the promotion race.
Crab Lungs Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 according to a survery Southampton has the highest rate of schizophrenia per 1000 of the population in the world. Make of that what you will. Why am I not surprised!!! Certainly goes to explain many, many incidents and encounters in my life...
Minty Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Why am I not surprised!!! Certainly goes to explain many, many incidents and encounters in my life... If you lived elsewhere, I'm sure Southampton would be much lower in the survey.
Saint Billy Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 How many more times do we have to tell you: you are NOT Mexican. But I do fart alot!
Crab Lungs Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 If you lived elsewhere, I'm sure Southampton would be much lower in the survey. Well, rumour has it that the between March 2009 - April 2010 that schizophrenia more than halved in Southampton, only to return to previously high levels a year or so later
Minty Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 How many more times do we have to tell you: you are NOT Mexican. But I do fart alot! Only one way to solve this - watch Top Gear and see if you're offended or not.
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Haha, that's exactly it. I just don't get how anyone can all swing so wildly from one end of the optimism pendulum to the other in such a short space of time. Maybe we should take a leaf out of Alpine's book and just permanently reside in a pit of despair... resolutely refusing to let any ray of optimism in to lighten the gloom... you always know where you are then!! Perhaps his problem is that the team he supports are just too successful for him, perhaps someone lower down the leagues would be better....
PokingFun Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Getting us out of this league is only the start of Nigels job this is supposed to be the easy bit. My point wasn't really about how we're doing right now it's about comparing what Nigel achieved at scunny and what he is expected to achieve here. I'm 100% sure Nigel has will get far more pressure on him from our chairman to get results than he ever did at scunny who were already punching way above their wieght. Can Nigel handle it? who knows. One things for sure banging on about his record at scunny really has no bearing on how he is doing here. I agree that there is little point comparing the two records given the different circumstances but what both records do suggest to date is that the guy is extremely capable at this level and also at Championship level potentially given the right backing which he should get with us. His record with us to date also suggests he can handle the pressure as his points total since day one has been around 2 per game all the way through which is a good return if you ignore the unrealistic people that expect us to win every game regardless. Unfortunately for NA he came in after the poorest of starts and this is masking the true impact he has made with the team since taking over from Pardew / Wilkins. By the way, I'm not saying whether he is better or worse than AP, FWIW I think they are both very good managers but there is no doubt in my mind that had NA had the team in his hands for a full pre-season and start then we would be at least above Bournemouth and really pushing along with Brighton who are having an exceptional season. I don't think he has an issue with handling the pressure as he seems very calm and rarely panics from what I have seen to date.
Viking Warrior Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Deppo I thought you were black and gay my apologies LOL
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Has he failed to do that yet? This whole thread seems to have got way out of hand. Rare for SaintsWeb I know, but there we go. Nigel Adkins is in charge and we are part-way through the season. He has a job to do, and he has plenty more games to get that job done. Opinions about how he is dong are fine but clearly most people aren't going to change their minds and decent discussion on the subject appears to be beyond most people. The stats prove nothing other than history. What matters is the next 3 months and however many fixtures we have left. I would respectfully suggest that people save their energy and put it towards supporting the team to try and help them achieve what we all want us to achieve. No he hasn't failed yet. I didn't say he has, and personally I think we will go up. My point was against the pitifully tedious yawntastic "too early to judge" brigade. It is not too early to judge. Nigel Adkins was employed to get us promoted this season. Judgement has started because this season is kinda like NOW.
NickG Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 since he has been here he has just about matched Brighton, and bettered all other teams. Promotion is still very achievable.
Goalie66 Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Well, rumour has it that the between March 2009 - April 2010 that schizophrenia more than halved in Southampton, only to return to previously high levels a year or so later Are you sure that you are not in two minds about those statistics?
forever a red and white Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 For anyone who likes stats or a number based argument here is this table: LMA Managers Performanc table 1.Gus Poyet 2.Arsene Wenger OBE 3.Sven-Göran Eriksson 4.Lee Bradbury 5.Sir Alex Ferguson CBE 6.Nigel Adkins[b/]. 7.Russell Slade 8.Jamie Pitman 9.Paul Jewell 10.Keith Hill
hypochondriac Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 since he has been here he has just about matched Brighton, and bettered all other teams. Promotion is still very achievable. Although posters have expressed concern about recent performances and results which has led to us being tenth in the current form table (I know you love form tables.)
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 9 points from last 6 games isn't great and wouldn't be enough if continued. A couple of our rivals for 2nd have managed 12 in 6 games -but we have had several away games. But form guide as a prediction for season, and a measure of where a manager has his teams could equally be done over more or less games: We have gained 4 from last 2 games - good. We have gained 8 from last 4 games (3 away) -good We have gained 21 from last 10 games - good. We have gained 40 from last 20 games - good We have gained 45 from 23 -good.
so22saint Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 I'm old enough to remember when United fans wanted Ferguson out every season until they won the FA Cup. "Only good for Aberdeen" "This job is too big for him". They'd had a tonne of mediocre managers up to then as well. Maybe we should get another manager then - changing manager every year worked so well under the duck hunting idiot. That's why we're in the Champions League... oh look we're not. How about a bit of support for our team / manager / club. ****s
saint lard Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 I'm old enough to remember when United fans wanted Ferguson out every season until they won the FA Cup. "Only good for Aberdeen" "This job is too big for him". They'd had a tonne of mediocre managers up to then as well. Maybe we should get another manager then - changing manager every year worked so well under the duck hunting idiot. That's why we're in the Champions League... oh look we're not. How about a bit of support for our team / manager / club. ****s In all truthfulness i have not seen one poster request the removal of our manager. However strong in my critisism in the appointment in Adkins has been i have not hastely rushed in and suggested his removal. Yet he is working below par, as our performances in general have shown. People can throw as many stats around as they see fit but it is the manner in which we are performing is of most concern at present. He is underperforming along with the playing squad. He was brought in to take us forward,he is not fulfilling his remit. He will prove impotent in the transfer windows and not have the draw to bring in the higher calibre of player we will require for this league or more importantly the championship,if he manages to get us to limp over the line that is. Our playing style has barely changed to the much vaunted style apparently Adkins' sides adopt. He is mediocre at best,which unfortunately our squad seem to have become. And with this squad at his disposal it is not good enough. But i'm sure many will hail any victory over swindon as 'everything is alright in the garden'. He was never going to be here for the '5 year plan' short term appointment which was based on what he did at scunny,a side with minimal expectations. For those insistant on using his time at Scunny as a measuring stick,look a bit closer and you might see a more balanced view,Mr Laws had a hand in that work too i believe....oh and a relegation thrown in too. No comparison between us and Scunny. Please prove me wrong Mr Adkins.
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 would love stylish performances, but this season will gladly accept a manager who gets us more points than rivals for promotion - and so far he is.
saint lard Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 would love stylish performances, but this season will gladly accept a manager who gets us more points than rivals for promotion - and so far he is. We currently hold 5th position in the league. Games in hand have to be won,so lets not count points in the bag that are not there. The lottery of the play offs was not somewhere i anticipated with the squad we have. Arrogant that may be to some, i will agree,but we show little sign of an automatic promotion side. More questions should have been asked after the peterborough away game. Giving away a 2 goal lead twice shows incompetance on many levels.
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 (edited) see the league table since Adkins thread. Posts 90 and 94. 2nd is on target. Would be much happier if more comfortable but will be happy if we grind out automatic promotion this season. Three defeats and it will look very different, as it will for three wins, as is the nature of league football. All we can judge Adkins on is whether he gets us more points than the team in 3rd - so far he is. Edited 25 February, 2011 by NickG
saint lard Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 (edited) see the league table since Adkins thread. 2nd is on target. And so it bloody should be. The only table that matters is the league table,in my view. And at present we are 5th and 6 points off automatic promotion,stuttering along,dropping points ala Notts County,Peterborough,Hartlepool etc.. Coupled with poor performances that show no sign of abating. This concerns me. Edited 25 February, 2011 by saint lard
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 And so it bloody should be. The only table that matters is the league table,in my view. And at present we are 5th and 6 points off automatic promotion,stuttering along,dropping points ala Notts County,Peterborough,Hartlepool etc.. Although this is probably because we've played less games.This argument being made possible because Charlton failed to obtain a single point from their last 2 matches.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 see the league table since Adkins thread. Posts 90 and 94. 2nd is on target. Would be much happier if more comfortable but will be happy if we grind out automatic promotion this season. Three defeats and it will look very different, as it will for three wins, as is the nature of league football. All we can judge Adkins on is whether he gets us more points than the team in 3rd - so far he is. There are a few "ifs" creeping into your posts I notice. You attach a lot of cred to stats and fair enough, we all know they don't lie, but you don't seem to attach too much importance to recent form?
Minty Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 It is not too early to judge. Nigel Adkins was employed to get us promoted this season. Judgement has started because this season is kinda like NOW. Sorry, I just don't quite follow. In order to make a judgement, we have to know what we are judging him on. If we are judging him on whether we get promoted or not then by definition it clearly is too early to judge, because we don't know yet if he will achieve that or not!? Obviously there will be opinions about how we will do and even more obviously, those opinions are always influenced by the most recent results. As a result, we get this kind of thread after a few poorer performances (which, by the way, I fully accept... we have not been anywhere near as good recently), but this is just the opposite of what we get after beating Oldham 6-0 away. Polar opposite, knee jerk reactions, neither of which take into account the performance across the season as a whole. If we do that, it's clear, as has been shown, that we are on target for promotion. There are plenty of 'tedious yawntastic' opinions on this thread, on both sides of the argument... it seems repetition is the only way some people know how to try and make their point, and I have no intention of adding to that, being slightly guilty of it myself already.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 There are a few "ifs" creeping into your posts I notice. You attach a lot of cred to stats and fair enough, we all know they don't lie, but you don't seem to attach too much importance to recent form? Especially as recent away form would indicate that we'll take less than 4 points from our 3 away games in hand. Probably won't happen that way but we've 5 from the last 4 away.
saint lard Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 see the league table since Adkins thread. Posts 90 and 94. 2nd is on target. Would be much happier if more comfortable but will be happy if we grind out automatic promotion this season. Three defeats and it will look very different, as it will for three wins, as is the nature of league football. All we can judge Adkins on is whether he gets us more points than the team in 3rd - so far he is.[/QUOTE] No, not really, has he. I'm not overly interested in his own personal points tally since he arrived ,i'm interested in SFC's points tally overall. He can be top of the tree on a personal level, as far as i'm concerned, but if it is inadequate for the promotion challenge then he has failed. All very good for his CV,not great for SFC. I know what i mean,perhaps i cannot express it in the correct manner......the pitfalls of a state education;)
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 There are a few "ifs" creeping into your posts I notice. You attach a lot of cred to stats and fair enough, we all know they don't lie, but you don't seem to attach too much importance to recent form? of course there are "ifs" - I still think 2nd is most likely but wouldn't be surprised if we finished a diappointing 4th. I have never thought it was in the bag. Recent current form? 8 points from last 4 games where 3 are away? Many more twists and turns yet!
bugenhagen Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 see the league table since Adkins thread. Posts 90 and 94. 2nd is on target. Would be much happier if more comfortable but will be happy if we grind out automatic promotion this season. Three defeats and it will look very different, as it will for three wins, as is the nature of league football. All we can judge Adkins on is whether he gets us more points than the team in 3rd - so far he is.[/QUOTE] No, not really, has he. I'm not overly interested in his own personal points tally since he arrived ,i'm interested in SFC's points tally overall. He can be top of the tree on a personal level, as far as i'm concerned, but if it is inadequate for the promotion challenge then he has failed. All very good for his CV,not great for SFC. I know what i mean,perhaps i cannot express it in the correct manner......the pitfalls of a state education;) Exactly! Doesn't matter that Adkins finishes the season with one piont more than all the other managers gunning for 2nd since he took over. He was appointed to promote us/win the whole thing, and he inherited less points and must also make up for this to complete his job.
Sour Mash Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 I honestly feel we are a weaker side than last year. The two signings in the January window aren't as good as Antonio or Waigo. I did Hartlepool away last season and the game this week. We looked far better last year, as a basic comparison. I've just got the feeling we're not quite going to make it. There is basically only one automatic promotion place available and Bournemouth refuse to drop away. With the resources we have available, we should be doing a lot better than we are.
Window Cleaner Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 Recent current form? 8 points from last 4 games where 3 are away? Ah stats, 8 from 4 is good, 8 from 5 not so much. By simply eliminating 1 match from the sample you change everything.
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 Sorry, I just don't quite follow. In order to make a judgement, we have to know what we are judging him on. If we are judging him on whether we get promoted or not then by definition it clearly is too early to judge, because we don't know yet if he will achieve that or not!? ......take into account the performance across the season as a whole. If we do that, it's clear, as has been shown, that we are on target for promotion. There are plenty of 'tedious yawntastic' opinions on this thread, on both sides of the argument... it seems repetition is the only way some people know how to try and make their point, and I have no intention of adding to that, being slightly guilty of it myself already. Think you are right about my repetition! There are those who like Adkins and those who don't. As you say we cannot judge him against promotion until the end of the season, and until then both sides of this debate will probably hold their opinions. I am happy for him to continue as he has (would prefer better!) as the stats show he is gaining enough points not only at better rate than rivals but to overcome the slow start to the season. A short run of results can quickly swing that either way!
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 Exactly! Doesn't matter that Adkins finishes the season with one piont more than all the other managers gunning for 2nd since he took over. He was appointed to promote us/win the whole thing, and he inherited less points and must also make up for this to complete his job. and that is what those posts show he is doing!
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 Ah stats, 8 from 4 is good, 8 from 5 not so much. By simply eliminating 1 match from the sample you change everything. agree - so include all of his games! Clearly better than rivals for 2nd!
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 I honestly feel we are a weaker side than last year. The two signings in the January window aren't as good as Antonio or Waigo. I did Hartlepool away last season and the game this week. We looked far better last year, as a basic comparison. I've just got the feeling we're not quite going to make it. There is basically only one automatic promotion place available and Bournemouth refuse to drop away. With the resources we have available, we should be doing a lot better than we are. Ox-C is now the first choice winger, personally rate him higher than Antonio by some distance but know some don't. Both Forte and N'Geussan have played at higher level and have pedigree than Antonio did - and they are subs not first teamer. We had Otsemebor as RB this time last season!!!
NickG Posted 25 February, 2011 Posted 25 February, 2011 sorry all - laid up with dodgy stomach but boring myself now so will leave this thread!!
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