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The difference between Southampton and Brighton...

Dibden Purlieu Saint

By Dibden Purlieu Saint,
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teamsaint

teamsaint

Posted
Posted
And how can you get the points you largely need? That makes no sense. Either you get the required amount of points required to achieve automatic promotion, whatever that may be or you don't. I assure you, our chairman will see it exactly the same way as I do. I don't think I'm the one being blinkered.

 

And for clarification, there is nothing I want more than for saints to be promoted this year. If we start playing brilliantly and winning every week then I will think it is fantastic, the only way I will judge Adkins at the end of the season (as after all that is when any real judgement will count, I am simply commenting on the current situation as I see it, in particular our form over the last six games) will be whether he has gained promotion which is what he was brought in to do and not whether we have reached some magical points per game ratio that you have invented in your head and decided it is the difference between success and failure. Tell me, if we were to finish with 1.99 points per game, would that be considered a bad season? What about if we got 2.1 points a game, finished third and lost in the playoffs? Is that a good season? Should Adkins be commended then?

 

Cortese will be judging Adkins on whether he wins promotion, and this is how I shall judge him too. As someone above mentioned, it's a results business and over the last six games the results have been unacceptably poor.

 

if we get 2.1 points per game NA will have done his job.

If we get 90 points he will have done his job.

If we get promoted he will have done his job.

 

If we get 85 and don't go up he will have failed, despite the poor start he inherited.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Me too

 

We do have a squad with very good experienced players Davis Butterfield Fonte Jaidi Hammond Chaplow Lambert

 

Plus some very good younger players OXO Schederlein Lallana and Gully

 

Plus better than average League 1 players Richardson Dickson Barnard and Harding

 

So what Adkins has achieved so far I think is only par as I am constantly expecting some really good results but both results and performances have been slightly disappointing recently so lets hope for six points in the next week.

 

If we dont beat both Swindon and Walsall which we should do comfortably I think most fans will be a little concerned about Promotion although I cannot really see us not finishing in the top six

 

Guly is 29, not so young then

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CWD

CWD

Posted
Posted

This thread has become somewhat tedious now.

 

FWIW I think both sides of the argument are valid. For the last 6 or so games, yes, our performances have been below par - not as awful as some are making out mind. However, often in difficult conditions and against teams desperate to beat the 'big club' we have used our superior talent and better squad depth to achieve a healthy points tally.

 

Based on results, Adkins has done very well, but I can't help feeling that our performances will need to improve as we move toward the business end of the season. I reckon they will too, and we will finish in 2nd

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Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

Posted
Posted
This thread has become somewhat tedious now.

 

Second that. There's one result that matters and that's the table at the end of the season. Comparing Pardew vs. Adkins is pointless. We played different players, some home some away, in different teams, under different conditions in a different sequence. So the fact that Pardew got X points after Y games vs. Adkins' Z points after Y games is as useless a stat mid-season as any of the others.

 

We had **** results under Pardew and there were an equal number of wrist slitters on here comparing him to Pearson etc. (probably in some cases, the same people as now complain about Adkins)

 

No one wants to see Adkins go (do they?), no one's got a time machine to recruit Poyet instead of Adkins (have they?) - so unless you've got any better ideas (fostered before the match, not with 20:20 hindsight), perhaps better to just accept the lot this season and hope (pray) we get promoted.

 

Be a supporter, not a t0sser.

 

PS. My opinion, is that one of the biggests causes of our early season problems has been our top goal scorer has looked off the pace - hence our failure to score in several key games. Hopefully there are signs of improvement there, but I want to see RL knocking in his 35 yard freekicks again.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
And I am sure their fans expressed doubts and criticisms as well. I would also expect more from us than Brighton considering the players and resources at our disposal. Ultimately the performances will not matter if we finish second (although it makes a bit of a mockery of this 'Southampton Style' thing which was publicised.) but when I see bad performances translating to bad results and missed opportunities, it is only natural to express concern and worry about where this season is going to end up.

 

You're taking that quote out of context - Cortese said we ONE DAY wanted to play a way that would be called that.

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martel

martel

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Posted
As has been said elsewhere, Brighton have a better manager.

 

I have to agree, I said to friends over here pre-season that Brighton for me was the dark horse, ask any Leeds fan and they all rate Poyet very highly; they certainly do not give much credit to Wise.

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beardy

beardy

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They weren't at full strength, they had a left back with only a couple of appearances (Pugh), a keeper who only plays cup matches (Sorensen), missing a midfielder who plays almost every game (Whitehead) and leaving leading scorer Jones on the bench.

 

Point was that you weren't in that position on Saturday, you've gained 2 points on everyone since then, but your boys were bigging it up. And if it was us I'd be shi tting it.

 

Number of outfield players Stoke City played in their following game at Arsenal? 9. The only change was the keeper and Etherington. the Keeper (Sorensen) is hardly a novice either.

Number of outfield players MUFC played in their following game. 1. O'Shea.

 

Not full strength? Right oh.

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Deppo

Deppo

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I've noticed the media paying a lot of attention to Brighton in the past week. They've been talked about just about everywhere from TalkSport to the BBC. Poyet and his players have been listening to lots of people telling them they are favourites to go up now and they themselves have been talking up their style of play. Perhaps all of this might have added a bit of extra pressure to them. Might have been caught in the headlights a bit? Just supposition, and only based on one result but let's hope so.

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The9

The9

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Posted
Number of outfield players Stoke City played in their following game at Arsenal? 9. The only change was the keeper and Etherington. the Keeper (Sorensen) is hardly a novice either.

Number of outfield players MUFC played in their following game. 1. O'Shea.

 

Not full strength? Right oh.

 

Yup. Not full strength. And to be fair they wouldn't have had to have been. PLEASE tell me MK Dons' winner today was from a right wing cross... :D

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
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I think an implosion is more likely than a blip for the Punch & Judy crew at this stage in the season (and dearly hope so), if the next set of results see the gap closed to four points it's tally-ho. The best case scenario would be for us, Brighton and Bournemouth all to be promoted this season.

 

Then next season us to get promoted to the Premiership with Brighton, Bournemouth and Portsmouth being relegated to Division three and to remain there for ten years until Milan Mandic buys out all three for 500 euros to form Spartak Brightmuff with home games at Lee-on-Solent...

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BHA

BHA

Posted
Posted
Amazing isnt it. Brighton lose and there is no sign of the Shyte covered Penis BHA around. One more defeat and im sure he will start claiming he is actually a Manure fan again.

 

Sorry i missed you after our defeat saturday, was drowning my sorrows, but feeling much better tonight.

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BHA

BHA

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Posted
What you doin here you gay t w a t. Yeah I bit. lol Why is this ***** constantly allowed to post on the main board?

 

The abuse. Have i been abusive to you? Homophobic jibes again, couldnt you come up with anything original?

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Because he was sad enough to part with his cash to do so.

 

That's neither here nor there. The (seemingly unenforced) rules clearly state that this part of the forum is for Saints fans only.

 

Perhaps the mods/admin have been too busy the last 24 weeks fixing the forum's technical problems to enforce the rules...? ;-)

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Simster

Simster

Posted
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The difference between Brighton and Saints? I doubt Brighton fans are as much of a bunch of crybabies and bedwetters as Saints fans.
I think you'll find we have our fair share. We don't see much of them these days though, but only because we're so far out in front that even the odd 1-0 away can be written off as a bad day at the office. However, they will be back next year even if we're top 6 in the Championship.
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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

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Posted

The difference between BHA and SFC is that Gus Poyet has taken the team through the transistion to a passing side. It wasn't without its detectors either and last season there were a lot of Brighton fans moaning. I believe that NA wants to do the same with us but due to the pressure to get results from the club and the fans, he can't do it quickly. Brighton could afford to waste part of a season doing said transition, where as we have to make every season count.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
The difference between BHA and SFC is that Gus Poyet has taken the team through the transistion to a passing side. It wasn't without its detectors either and last season there were a lot of Brighton fans moaning. I believe that NA wants to do the same with us but due to the pressure to get results from the club and the fans, he can't do it quickly. Brighton could afford to waste part of a season doing said transition, where as we have to make every season count.

 

 

I think that's part of the reason, but I think the reason they can play that way is because they’re relaxed in their games, they didn't come into this season with massive expectations or pressure on their shoulders.

 

We are in a similar position as the Nottingham Forests/Wednesdays/Leeds of the world - a big club which has a talented squad, but is playing with the pressure of the world on its shoulders and you can never get any consistency with that. Forest/Wednesday and Leeds stuttered getting out of this league, but they all made it in the end (unfortunately Wednesday came back down again though...). I just hope we do it this year.

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  • 4 weeks later...
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

An 'independent' view from my Daggers supporting friend who saw them play Brighton on Tuesday....

 

"I have to say I didn't think they (Brighton) were a patch on the Saints.... neither were Huddersfield. Sadly they don't award style points though..."

 

Daggers were all over them looking at these highlights: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_2/9441347.stm

 

So, the difference between us and Brighton? They're better at grinding out narrow victories out of below-par performances than we are....?

Edited by trousers
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)

In case no-one has noticed, during Brighton's 8 successive wins, they have won precisely ONE match by more than one goal, a 2-0 home win to Tranmere. All of the others have been single-goal scrapers. In most of those games they've scored in the 57-74th minutes, and that's often been the only goal. So they usually wear sides down around the hour mark.

 

The stats against Dag and Red on Tuesday were an indictment of their performance - D&R had 9 shots on target and 9 off, Brighton 2 on and 3 off. But Brighton somehow won.

 

They're clearly marginally better than most, but you can't argue with the points.

 

Personally I think we'll stuff them at the Withdean if we get an early goal, because both times I've seen them this season they've been toilet, and we raise our game for the big matches (which is of course part of the problem).

Edited by The9
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wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted

Brighton have no pressure / expectation on them to succeed. Thier players walk out on to the pitch with the freedom to perform. You watch Saints this season and you can see that the level of performance improves drastically once we score.

 

Many a man crumbles under pressure and expectation. So it can be argued that other smaller teams are liekly to play with far more freedom.

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trousers

trousers

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Posted

I said this a while back (and was probably laughed at for my troubles) but I actually think that we'll find the Championship (if we get promoted) an easier league than this one with the same core set of players.

 

I've heard plenty of anecdotal evidence from fans of other teams we have played, along with other pundits, that we are the 'best' team in the league (as arrogant as it sounds to replay the words of others) but that our style is "too pretty" for League One (and, yes, that also sounds arrogant).

 

It's a circular argument but I genuinely believe that we'll get results more comfortably next season than this.....IF we're promoted....

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Simster

Simster

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Posted
They're clearly marginally better than most, but you can't argue with the points.

 

Personally I think we'll stuff them at the Withdean if we get an early goal, because both times I've seen them this season they've been toilet, and we raise our game for the big matches (which is of course part of the problem).

This is completely contradictory to me. We have been fairly average in some of the games through March, no doubt about it. We have done just about enough to win in probably 5 of those games, and been fully deserved winners in the other three. But them's the breaks and as has been said before, winning when you're below par is what makes a good side.

 

But I've read a lot of guff from opposition fans about how Brighton are the most consistent but not the best? I mean, how do you work that out? We haven't really been "toilet" in more than 2 or 3 games all season. Not really toilet, anyhow. We've been below average but not once can you honestly say we've been played off the park, except maybe at Stoke in the first half. Your opinion that you will win easily appears to be based on two matches? I can safely assume those two weren't the home matches against Portsmouth, Peterborough, Plymouth or MK Dons, or away games at Peterborough, Charlton or Watford. It's like me saying we're going to BATTER you at Withdean because I've only seen you twice (cherrypicking say Plymouth & Rochdale at home) and you were gash.

 

None of us have seen every team play 38 times (or whatever), to be able to say with conviction such rubbish as team A is better than team B but team B are more consistent. That's why we let the league table do the talking. And there is no argument about it is there? We're miles better than any other team in the division, and in my humble opinon, Southampton are and will prove to be second best at the end of the season.

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saint1977

saint1977

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Posted
This is completely contradictory to me. We have been fairly average in some of the games through March, no doubt about it. We have done just about enough to win in probably 5 of those games, and been fully deserved winners in the other three. But them's the breaks and as has been said before, winning when you're below par is what makes a good side.

 

But I've read a lot of guff from opposition fans about how Brighton are the most consistent but not the best? I mean, how do you work that out? We haven't really been "toilet" in more than 2 or 3 games all season. Not really toilet, anyhow. We've been below average but not once can you honestly say we've been played off the park, except maybe at Stoke in the first half. Your opinion that you will win easily appears to be based on two matches? I can safely assume those two weren't the home matches against Portsmouth, Peterborough, Plymouth or MK Dons, or away games at Peterborough, Charlton or Watford. It's like me saying we're going to BATTER you at Withdean because I've only seen you twice (cherrypicking say Plymouth & Rochdale at home) and you were gash.

 

None of us have seen every team play 38 times (or whatever), to be able to say with conviction such rubbish as team A is better than team B but team B are more consistent. That's why we let the league table do the talking. And there is no argument about it is there? We're miles better than any other team in the division, and in my humble opinon, Southampton are and will prove to be second best at the end of the season.

 

Best of luck to you, you are going to be Champions and deservedly so over the season. My hope is that by the time we play you you will be up and maybe with one eye on the trophy and the new stadium. We haven't been consistent or ruthless enough to pull clear yet in second place - I take S Clarke's points on board about expectation on board but Norwich's players had to deal with 24k gates last season and applied themselves. Where I think we may pip Hudds and Posh to second is squad depth - I think Forte will prove an asset with his pace now he's fit and Stephens is going to seriously keep the heat on Hammond and Chaplow. Guly is also now fully fit and will be pushing Barnard.

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The9

The9

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Posted
This is completely contradictory to me. We have been fairly average in some of the games through March, no doubt about it. We have done just about enough to win in probably 5 of those games, and been fully deserved winners in the other three. But them's the breaks and as has been said before, winning when you're below par is what makes a good side.

 

But I've read a lot of guff from opposition fans about how Brighton are the most consistent but not the best? I mean, how do you work that out? We haven't really been "toilet" in more than 2 or 3 games all season. Not really toilet, anyhow. We've been below average but not once can you honestly say we've been played off the park, except maybe at Stoke in the first half. Your opinion that you will win easily appears to be based on two matches? I can safely assume those two weren't the home matches against Portsmouth, Peterborough, Plymouth or MK Dons, or away games at Peterborough, Charlton or Watford. It's like me saying we're going to BATTER you at Withdean because I've only seen you twice (cherrypicking say Plymouth & Rochdale at home) and you were gash.

 

None of us have seen every team play 38 times (or whatever), to be able to say with conviction such rubbish as team A is better than team B but team B are more consistent. That's why we let the league table do the talking. And there is no argument about it is there? We're miles better than any other team in the division, and in my humble opinon, Southampton are and will prove to be second best at the end of the season.

 

I wasn't cherrypicking, I've seen Brighton place twice this season, neither time did they pass the ball well nor look potent going forward. One time they looked completely outclassed by what can generously be described as an artisan Stoke side, and the other time they came to kill the game from the first minute at St Mary's - and succeeded. In contrast, everyone could pick games where Saints haven't played well, but you don't have to go back to pre-Adkins to cherrypick them ! We've had more than enough games where we've underperformed, and I've seen Saints play much worse than the only time I've seen Brighton in the League on a few occasions. But as with last season, we've mostly started badly and improved as the season goes on.

 

I think we'll finish comfortably second, but the title race has been over for about 3 weeks now, just because your lot haven't faltered much in terms of results when they looked like they could.

 

We can't argue with the league table, and there's certainly a difference in BHA results against the lower sides compared to Saints'. It says a lot about the players' levels of motivation, and for us the games when we were directionless at the start of the season (the Plymouth and Rochdale games you mentioned, and we haven't played either since to get a more recent measure). Title winning sides generally don't have those issues, or some of the key injuries we've had. But they're the breaks over 46 games and they can happen to anyone.

 

Of course the league table also says you lot haven't finished above 20th in the Championship in nearly 18 years, so we'll see what happens up there next season.

 

More importantly for us, we've got to get there yet. I don't think we're playing particularly well at the moment, but we have generally played far above ourselves in important matches, especially against decent passing teams. Fortunately for us, all Saints' remaining matches are "important".

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south

south

Posted
Posted
Manager and squad. BHA signing Craig Noone showed more ambition than Saints' signing Forte and taking N'Guessen on loan. Result was BHA are stronger after the window while Saints are same old same old.

Adkins going back to his old club for Forte smacked too much of Burley and his tendency to sign players he'd managed before.

 

Noone hasn't played that much and is often used a sub. It is the way the whole team is playing (from goalkeeper to attack) that puts them firmly on top of the league. Not at all down to individual players. Evidently proved when Lua Lua left.

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