The difference between Southampton and Brighton...

[Window Cleaner]

Brighton had a head start on us after the rubbish start caused by others this season, simple as that!

 

Rubbish that was totally unnecessary after the season started.After,in fact, the new man would be able to do anything about the situation in which he would find himself for a fair while. Why wait until transfer dead line day, we'd already lost the opening match,wasn't that a good reason for the "I told you so brigade" behind the scenes"

Edited 24 February, 2011 by Window Cleaner

[um pahars]

But not as good as Brighton's, which is what this thread is about.

 

I am 100% behind Adkins and fully support him in his efforts to get us promoted. As with others, I'm sure that support is peridoically up for reassessment (i.e. I reserve the right to have a moan if he takes us down!!!), but for now I am happy to be giving him my support as he endeavours to take us up.

 

 

(However, if we're allowed to indulge in some Fantasy Football and won't be called traitors, backstabbers, bedwetters etc etc etc, by a few on here who seem to be a little precious, then I would personally rather have appointed someone of the calibre of Gus Poyet last summer. Given the resources at hand, Poyet does seem to have done a pretty remarkable job down at Brighton and think he will go far in the game).

[BHA]

Brighton had a head start on us after the rubbish start caused by others this season, simple as that!

 

Far from a head start your the team that started the season with the best squad in the league.

[Window Cleaner]

 

(However, if we're allowed to indulge in some Fantasy Football and won't be called traitors, backstabbers, bedwetters etc etc etc, by a few on here who seem to be a little precious, then I would personally rather have appointed someone of the calibre of Gus Poyet last summer. Given the resources at hand, Poyet does seem to have done a pretty remarkable job down at Brighton and think he will go far in the game).

 

Is this not the crux of my argument? I am not anti-Adkins,Yet I don't believe that he's the best we could have got and the timing of Pardew's sacking is abhorrent to me. I just wish we had Poyet that's all, a class player at the highest level who seems to have been able to translate some of his ability into management skills,which is not always the case.

[PokingFun]

Discounting the MK Dons away game, which he cannot be blamed for, Adkins' Saints have lost 4 league games.....exactly the same as Poyet's Brighton.

 

The real difference between Saints and Brighton is the 3 games where Dean Wilkins' influence was primary (Swindon, Rochdale, MK Dons) all of which we lost.

 

At last some common sense prevails. We are a consistent side. Our rolling 8 games points average has been between 1.9 and 2.2 per game since NA arrived. That is consistent!! For those that dont understand, 2 points per game is VERY good. Only Man U, Arse, QPR and Brighton have achieved anywhere close to that average. This is a results business and so far NA results are as good as can be REALISTICALLY expected.

[PokingFun]

Far from a head start your the team that started the season with the best squad in the league.

 

I was replying to the comment that you have a better manager than us. NA record is as good as Poyet's.

[Miltonaggro]

I too will be sticking with NA to the bitter end (or hopefully the sweet smell of success), and feel that we will go up this year. But an interesting subject being mooted is Poyet the great player translating to Poyet the great manager. I don't think it necessarily follows that all great players make great managers, but I do feel that it helps their cause, particularly when dealing with journeymen and youngsters.

 

Take Bally when he was at Saints as manager - Everton, Arsenal, 72 caps for England, many as skipper and a world cup winners medal - if nothing else it sure as hell shuts up the barrack room lawyers (which after all is what caused Sturrock's untimely exit). I remember reading an interview with Chris Marsden who said that in Hoddle's first training session he joined in the training match at the end and completely blew the players away with his skill; which got him instant respect and harnessed the senior pros. I suppose it's like any walk of life in business where a new senior manager is unveiled and the staff ask 'well who is he, what's he done, and why should we listen?' it's always less galling to work under somebody of known experience and pedigree at the highest level. That's not to say that managerial stars cannot be created (McMenemy was no great player after all), the process just takes longer and requires the person to develop a rhino thick skin and brilliant man management skills.

 

As I said, 100% behind NA, but when the names were being touted after Pardew's departure I would have given my eye teeth for Kevin Keegan (perhaps above Shearer). Never in the NC remit I know, but I think we would have torn this league a new one...

[south]

My whole point in this argument is that Poyet is vastly superior to Adkins and we should have gone for someone of his quality.

 

..but Poyet was a gamble, albeit one that has returned. Brighton was his first club as manager.

[south]

I was replying to the comment that you have a better manager than us. NA record is as good as Poyet's.

 

Probably better. This is Poyet's FIRST season as a manager, some in the media even questioned his ability to manage at all prior to going to Brighton.

 

There are many reasons why Brighton sit at the top by a distance. New Chairman, investment, new stadium, buzz around the team and Poyet. Effective attacking, defending and passing.

 

Basically, many things have "clicked" at the same time.

[PokingFun]

Probably better. This is Poyet's FIRST season as a manager, some in the media even questioned his ability to manage at all prior to going to Brighton.

 

There are many reasons why Brighton sit at the top by a distance. New Chairman, investment, new stadium, buzz around the team and Poyet. Effective attacking, defending and passing.

 

Basically, many things have "clicked" at the same time.

 

In my opinion Saints are not far behind. We have a similar record under our new manager and also it's not that long ago that BHA had a 5 match sequence with no win. Every team can hit a bad patch. Our fans seem to think getting nearly 2 points a game in the last 9 games when 6 have been away games is poor! Cringeworthy.

[hypochondriac]

In my opinion Saints are not far behind. We have a similar record under our new manager and also it's not that long ago that BHA had a 5 match sequence with no win. Every team can hit a bad patch. Our fans seem to think getting nearly 2 points a game in the last 9 games when 6 have been away games is poor! Cringeworthy.

 

Our performances have been poor of late and it's concerning because it eventually catches up to you. I can only speak for myself but I don't give a feck about 2 points a game or any stats really. If we don't finish top 2 this season then it's embarrassing and utter failure. Adkins was brought in to get us automatic promotion, if we fail in that aim then he he has been a failure. It isn't cringeworthy as you put it, it's common sense.

[NickG]

There is no arguing with all you adkinslovvies, he's no better than Pardew and we exposed ourselves to a disastrous 3 game period

with Wilkins for no reason whatsoever. Just a whim from Cortese.

 

in the politest possible way - you don't know what you are talking about!We have a good manager, get over it.

 

I AGREE WITH WINDOW CLEANER

 

By the way what has adkins done which makes him good

 

He has done OK but I would have thought that most managers would have done as well and possibly better

 

I was referring to his comment about sacking being for no reason by a whim.

 

For what its worth, I don't think many would have done as well as Adkins - around 2 points a game from a team getting far less is good return

[hypochondriac]

I was referring to his comment about sacking being for no reason by a whim.

 

For what its worth, I don't think many would have done as well as Adkins - around 2 points a game from a team getting far less is good return

 

I disagree, sorry.

[Gemmel]

I was referring to his comment about sacking being for no reason by a whim.

 

For what its worth, I don't think many would have done as well as Adkins - around 2 points a game from a team getting far less is good return

 

I think I would have matched what he has to date.

 

Thats not a dig at him, and support him 100%, but I havent seen anything exceptional yet.

[NickG]

I disagree, sorry.

 

 

 

don't apologise just because you are wrong

[NickG]

I think I would have matched what he has to date.

 

Thats not a dig at him, and support him 100%, but I havent seen anything exceptional yet.

 

expect you could have scored 20 goals this season as well with Lallana and Ox-c providing.

[hypochondriac]

don't apologise just because you are wrong

 

Only 2 replies so far have disagreed with you.

[hypochondriac]

don't apologise just because you are wrong

 

Double post.

[NickG]

sorry?

[Gemmel]

expect you could have scored 20 goals this season as well with Lallana and Ox-c providing.

 

At least 30.

[hypochondriac]

expect you could have scored 20 goals this season as well with Lallana and Ox-c providing.

 

Any half decent manager could have managed the performances that Adkins has with the squad we have got. Supposedly the best squad in the division by far.

[benjii]

So, the conclusion is that there are a multitude of differences, is that right?

 

Can we do one of these threads for each team? It will be interesting. Really interesting.

[PokingFun]

Our performances have been poor of late and it's concerning because it eventually catches up to you. I can only speak for myself but I don't give a feck about 2 points a game or any stats really. If we don't finish top 2 this season then it's embarrassing and utter failure. Adkins was brought in to get us automatic promotion, if we fail in that aim then he he has been a failure. It isn't cringeworthy as you put it, it's common sense.

 

Its not common sense if the task was a massive one in the first place. Its great that were in with a real chance even after the **** start post Wilkins. Its not common sense that some of our fans are having a pop at a manager whose record in his respective league is up there with the best around in other divisions. As I posted before, only Man U, Arse, QPR and Brighton have achieved what NA has points wise so far this season as an average per game and therefore he deserves much respect to have that record and be in there with a very good chance of automatic promotion.

 

His average over 20+ games is a reasonable sample to suggest that will continue and if it does we will be promoted, simple as that. If we do get auto then I hope everyone acting like gods gift here will give the man the plaudits he will deserve as he will have overcome a huge handicap that our start gave him regardless of what his brief from Nicola was. Lets be honest, whoever took the job was going to be told "promotion is a must" and I'm sure would have responded "of course boss" and get on with it which NA has done.

 

Expectation is one thing but lets also have some realism and give NA some credit and support rather than question everything he does after a run of 4 unbeaten games (3 away) and 8 points .....

 

I dont give a **** about the performances, its results that count and overall NA is getting them!

[NickG]

Any half decent manager could have managed the performances that Adkins has with the squad we have got. Supposedly the best squad in the division by far.

 

thats why every division finishes in exactly the order we expect as the teams with decent squads are guaranteed to get 2 points per game! (how many managers are managing that!?)

[PokingFun]

I disagree, sorry.

 

Only Man U, Arse, QPR and Brighton in any league of ours or above are doing better than NA .... do you get it now?

[hypochondriac]

I give a f*ck about performances when we play badly and then because of that fail to get a result. As regards the rest of your post, any reply I make is just going to make us go round in circles.

 

Ultimately the only thing I care about is going up automatically. I don't care if Adkins achieves an amazing points per game ratio or whatever other stats you want to supply me with (and huge handicap? Give me a break.) If we don't finish at least second then it would have been abject failure on Adkins' part, no excuses.

[hypochondriac]

Only Man U, Arse, QPR and Brighton in any league of ours or above are doing better than NA .... do you get it now?

 

I don't care. If we fail to win promotion then he will have failed. Totally.

[PokingFun]

thats why every division finishes in exactly the order we expect as the teams with decent squads are guaranteed to get 2 points per game! (how many managers are managing that!?)

 

Man City are not and Chelsea are not and they have spent how much exactly ..... the people having a pop at NA on here are laughable, truly laughable ....

[PokingFun]

I give a f*ck about performances when we play badly and then because of that fail to get a result. As regards the rest of your post, any reply I make is just going to make us go round in circles.

 

Ultimately the only thing I care about is going up automatically. I don't care if Adkins achieves an amazing points per game ratio or whatever other stats you want to supply me with (and huge handicap? Give me a break.) If we don't finish at least second then it would have been abject failure on Adkins' part, no excuses.

 

Handicap he was given is around -10 points based on his own record with Saints this season and the SAME TEAM as Pardew / Wilkins ..... I would say a 3-4 game less season than the rest is a big handicap to automatic promotion wouldn't you?

[hypochondriac]

Handicap he was given is around -10 points based on his own record with Saints this season and the SAME TEAM as Pardew / Wilkins ..... I would say a 3-4 game less season than the rest is a big handicap to automatic promotion wouldn't you?

 

If Nigel Adkins fails to win promotion with Southampton this season is that a failure? Yes or No?

[PokingFun]

I will be disappointed if we do not get promoted but if that is on the backdrop of NA getting 2 pts per game from now until the end of the season and one of our rivals can better that in the run in then i say good luck to them as they will have played exceptionally well to do that. The play-offs are a lottery anyway so I am not going to slate anyone for not winning them.

 

The point is, we will not get anyone that could achieve more right now than NA is doing. Even the very best managers in the country would probably struggle to better NA record by more than 10% extra. I just feel our fans are unrealistic in what they consider to be a good job and feel he is being treated unfairly right now.

 

At the end of the day we won't agree on this one and you obviously cannot see past your blinkers of promotion. On one hand you want promotion, but on the other you moan about performances even though the team is getting the points it largely needs to gain auto even while not playing as well as we all know they can at their very best. I will take the current points tally per game every time as I know it will mean promotion when the other teams have their blip. B'mth's has arguably already started with 2 draws in a row AT HOME. We have taken around 17-18 points from 9 games including SIX away. That is very good indeed!

[hypochondriac]

So in summary, if we achieve 2 points per game but someone else does better and takes 2nd, that to you is not failure. I will have to strongly disagree with you there.

 

You can see why some are becoming frustrated by both the manner of performances and by our recent form (as evidenced by the last 6 games- a usual measure of form- which has us down in tenth). If we continue to show our recent form, coupled with poor performances then there is the very real danger that we will not achieve promotion this year and thus Adkins and SFC have utterly failed though for some reason you believe the season cannot be classed as a failure as long as we achieve a certain points per game ratio. Alright then...

[hypochondriac]

And how can you get the points you largely need? That makes no sense. Either you get the required amount of points required to achieve automatic promotion, whatever that may be or you don't. I assure you, our chairman will see it exactly the same way as I do. I don't think I'm the one being blinkered.

 

And for clarification, there is nothing I want more than for saints to be promoted this year. If we start playing brilliantly and winning every week then I will think it is fantastic, the only way I will judge Adkins at the end of the season (as after all that is when any real judgement will count, I am simply commenting on the current situation as I see it, in particular our form over the last six games) will be whether he has gained promotion which is what he was brought in to do and not whether we have reached some magical points per game ratio that you have invented in your head and decided it is the difference between success and failure. Tell me, if we were to finish with 1.99 points per game, would that be considered a bad season? What about if we got 2.1 points a game, finished third and lost in the playoffs? Is that a good season? Should Adkins be commended then?

 

Cortese will be judging Adkins on whether he wins promotion, and this is how I shall judge him too. As someone above mentioned, it's a results business and over the last six games the results have been unacceptably poor.

Edited 24 February, 2011 by hypochondriac

[PokingFun]

And how can you get the points you largely need? That makes no sense. Either you get the required amount of points required to achieve automatic promotion, whatever that may be or you don't. I assure you, our chairman will see it exactly the same way as I do. I don't think I'm the one being blinkered.

 

And for clarification, there is nothing I want more than for saints to be promoted this year. If we start playing brilliantly and winning every week then I will think it is fantastic, the only way I will judge Adkins at the end of the season (as after all that is when any real judgement will count, I am simply commenting on the current situation as I see it, in particular our form over the last six games) will be whether he has gained promotion which is what he was brought in to do and not whether we have reached some magical points per game ratio that you have invented in your head and decided it is the difference between success and failure. Tell me, if we were to finish with 1.99 points per game, would that be considered a bad season? What about if we got 2.1 points a game, finished third and lost in the playoffs? Is that a good season? Should Adkins be commended then?

 

Cortese will be judging Adkins on whether he wins promotion, and this is how I shall judge him too. As someone above mentioned, it's a results business and over the last six games the results have been unacceptably poor.

 

Like I said, I would be disappointed but equally sensible enough to see that we would still have a good man at the helm to take us forward as I do not think our **** start should be discounted in terms the damage it has done on our season. I have no more to say on the subject and will wait and see what occurs between now and the end of the season.

[hypochondriac]

I think if we fail to win promotion, that anyone who uses our poor start as an excuse, considering the ridiculous squad depth and talent at our disposal, head and shoulders above every other team in the league, is seriously deluded and a bit mental. You can guarantee it will happen on here though. Nutters.

 

Cannot wait till CB Fry sees this thread.

[Saints foreva]

I think if we fail to win promotion, that anyone who uses our poor start as an excuse, considering the ridiculous squad depth and talent at our disposal, head and shoulders above every other team in the league, is seriously deluded and a bit mental. You can guarantee it will happen on here though. Nutters.

 

Cannot wait till CB Fry sees this thread.

 

Anyone who thinks our squad talent is head over shoulders above every other team in the league is seriously deluded and a bit mental.

[um pahars]

But an interesting subject being mooted is Poyet the great player translating to Poyet the great manager. I don't think it necessarily follows that all great players make great managers, but I do feel that it helps their cause, particularly when dealing with journeymen and youngsters.

 

Have no idea of the success/failure comparisons, but history is littered with great players who didn't cut it as great managers, so you're right it is no guarantee of success.

 

However, I've just got an inkling from having witnessed Poyet at Leeds & Spurs and now seeing what he is managing with Brighton that he might be able to make the transition. I think he could cut it in the higher leagues here or maybe even abroad (e.g. Spain).

[hypochondriac]

Anyone who thinks our squad talent is head over shoulders above every other team in the league is seriously deluded and a bit mental.

 

What other team has talent which can compare to-

 

Lambert (no need to go into details why)

Chamberlin (see above)

Lallana (see above)

Fonte (probably the best CB in the league)

Martin (wanted by premier league clubs)

Richardson (rated by many other supporters as the best right back in the league)

Davis (saved us consistently)

Barnard (Scores loads of goals, 2nd top scorer last year.)

Schneiderlin (could easily play at a higher level)

 

 

There are probably more but I can't remember. The point is, we were favourites to win the league this year, most neutrals thought we would walk it. We quite clearly have the strongest squad in the league. No one else has a stronger squad than us. Brighton are currently playing better than us, more consistency and perform better as a team.

[PokingFun]

I can assure you that I am not deluded, mental, a nutter or anything like that at all. Just because I happen to hold a view that differs from you does not make me some kind of mentalist. As I said, I'm happy to see what the season brings, it just disappoints me that our fans seem to think we have a god given right to win every game because we have spent a few quid and cannot recognise that NA is doing a good job to date. Most fans of other teams will still see us as a good side doing well and those in and around us will believe we are a massive threat.

 

Who is CB Fry by the way? Is he some kind of mentalist too? ;-)

[hypochondriac]

I can assure you that I am not deluded, mental, a nutter or anything like that at all.

 

If you think that Adkins failing to get saints promoted does not make him a failure as long as he achieves a certain points per game ratio, then that seems pretty nuts to me. If Adkins cannot achieve promotion with the games he has had then he has failed. You can't use the games at the beginning of the season as an excuse, he will have had more than enough time. That is how Cortese will be seeing it too.

 

Just because I happen to hold a view that differs from you does not make me some kind of mentalist.

 

Holding a differing view does not make you a mentalist I agree.

 

As I said, I'm happy to see what the season brings, it just disappoints me that our fans seem to think we have a god given right to win every game because we have spent a few quid and cannot recognise that NA is doing a good job to date.

 

I don't think anyone has said this. I do think we should expect a better level of performance and if pushed, I do think we should have taken more chances this season and be challenging Brighton whilst being comfortably in second.

 

Most fans of other teams will still see us as a good side doing well and those in and around us will believe we are a massive threat.

 

If you go on football-forums.net, the majority think we are underachieving so I don't think you are right there.

 

Who is CB Fry by the way? Is he some kind of mentalist too? ;-)

 

CB Fry is the best poster on this forum.

[Miltonaggro]

Have no idea of the success/failure comparisons, but history is littered with great players who didn't cut it as great managers, so you're right it is no guarantee of success.

 

However, I've just got an inkling from having witnessed Poyet at Leeds & Spurs and now seeing what he is managing with Brighton that he might be able to make the transition. I think he could cut it in the higher leagues here or maybe even abroad (e.g. Spain).

 

Thing about Poyet is that he is a big lad and a fiery b*stard so there is a presence and determination to win that is obviously being taken on by the players (I think that this is the real key to this debate, their side is running through brick walls, ours is happy to trot, which is dangerous). If the run continues I doubt that Poyet will be there at Easter let alone next season, he's a hero in Spain as well as the King's Road...

[John B]

I disagree, sorry.

 

Me too

 

We do have a squad with very good experienced players Davis Butterfield Fonte Jaidi Hammond Chaplow Lambert

 

Plus some very good younger players OXO Schederlein Lallana and Gully

 

Plus better than average League 1 players Richardson Dickson Barnard and Harding

 

So what Adkins has achieved so far I think is only par as I am constantly expecting some really good results but both results and performances have been slightly disappointing recently so lets hope for six points in the next week.

 

If we dont beat both Swindon and Walsall which we should do comfortably I think most fans will be a little concerned about Promotion although I cannot really see us not finishing in the top six

[Big Bad Bob]

Alright, I've got to say this :-

 

Because of the hype, because of what the neutrals thoughts, because of the pre-season build up, because of who we are and our history teams will *ALWAYS* play better against us and try and frustrate us.

 

We are seen as the billy big ****** of this league and the other teams want to take our scalp, even a draw against us is seen as a massive result. ie Notts County home, Hartlepool away etc.

 

This makes it much harder for us to be as consistent as some fans would like.

 

At the start of the season (not so much now) Brighton were small fry and nothing to be concerned about, just another League One team, teams didn't paly up to them so much (it happens) they've started winning and have that winning mentality, they are now putting consistent runs together, they are in the winning habit!!

 

Lets see if they can keep that up to the end of the season, if they can I doff my cap to them, I just get the feeling that they may find things a bit harder now as teams will see them as a big scalp and start to try just that little bit harder...

 

FWIW I think Poyet is doing a fantastic job, he is seen as the reason for Leeds being so succesful under Wise, Brighton getting him was a real coup BUT it was a gamble, one that worked, true.

 

WC :- you suggested that Adkins can't be a very good manager because of the Puncheon situation, so does that mean that all the managers at his previous clubs weren't very good either?

Edited 24 February, 2011 by Big Bad Bob

[hypochondriac]

You are getting me confused with window cleaner bob.

[St Marco]

Me too

 

We do have a squad with very good experienced players Davis Butterfield Fonte Jaidi Hammond Chaplow Lambert

 

Plus some very good younger players OXO Schederlein Lallana and Gully

 

Plus better than average League 1 players Richardson Dickson Barnard and Harding

 

So what Adkins has achieved so far I think is only par as I am constantly expecting some really good results but both results and performances have been slightly disappointing recently so lets hope for six points in the next week.

 

If we dont beat both Swindon and Walsall which we should do comfortably I think most fans will be a little concerned about Promotion although I cannot really see us not finishing in the top six

 

I tend to agree with this really.

 

Anyone who thinks NA should be booted out is a total numpty. But anyone who thinks he is doing amazing is too. He has done ok. But if we get to the end of the season and we have not gone up i will see that as total failure. Sure when he took over we only had 4 points but we had also only played 5 games. The gap from us to the top was 8 points, and that was to MK Dons. Brighton were only 6 points ahead of us when he took over. Are people suggesting 41 games isn't enough games to claw back 6 points?

 

Adkins job was to come in and get us promoted this year. Not to do a re-building job and get promoted next season. We have nothing to distract us this time around, no days out at Wembley, no points deduction, no rumored falling out with players/staff. He has the squad to do it, the squad that should do it. What would **** me off is if we don't do it people looking for excuses why because there just isn't any.

 

That said though i have total faith in him and the team and am sure if we can play football as we have over the past 12 months we should beat most teams easily. Adkins just has to get them playing like that. He has shown he can as we have played in games this year. I still think we will get promoted this year. But i think as each game passes it is looking more and more like via the playoffs. But i'd take that if someone offered us that right now. I am that damn tired of this ****ty league.

[PokingFun]

CB Fry is the best poster on this forum.

 

What I am saying is there is a margin of error / misfortune at which I will think he has been unfortunate to not get us promoted after the terrible start we had, a minus ten points effective deficit. If for example NA achieved more than 2 pts per game and B'mth / Huddersfield by some miracle won 80% of their remaining games then I would feel that was exeptionally bad luck and nothing to do with our form or ability as it is out of our control. In that situation I would say he did well even though technically he failed to go up. Clearly the number of scenarios is enormous and I will base my view should he fail to get us promoted on the whole situation and not just a "well he didnt get us up so hes a failure" black and white argument.

 

I also hope Cortese can see that he is partly responsible for our terrible start as he kept Pardew and then opted to not stick with him. That decision was nothing to do with NA and it left NA at a disadvantage and playing catch up. Fortunately, it seems that NA will catch up that deficit assuming we continue to achieve the results we have over the 24 or so games he has been in charge in our remaining fixtures. Gain the average points we have been doing in our games in hand and we will be in 2nd place. Then it all depends on who has the bottle in the last 1/3 of the season. That remains to be seen but I think we can do it. I'll stick my neck out and say that I still believe we will go up automatically.

 

Basically, NA is on a hiding to nothing with a large number of fans. Get promoted and they will say "so he should have" without acknowledging that he has had to pick up a shattered team and rebuild confidence and winning mentality while also bridging a significant points gap after the disastrous start we had. If we don't go up no doubt the NA out drum will bang regardless of the circumstances, final positions etc.

 

Do you acknowledge that NA has done well so far to bridge the gap left by the poor start to the season under Pardew / Wilkins? If not, then quite frankly I think you are off mark. After all, even the LMA performance ratings seem to reflect that NA is doing a good job assuming the post earlier by someone is genuine.

 

One final thing Hypo, I still maintain that just because I don't agree with you it doesn't mean I'm nuts, mental or whatever at all. It just means I view things differently to you so please don't insult my intelligence by posting what you think of me becuase I dare to hold a different view to you. This is a football message board where opinions differ. I don't know you, you don't know me so please in future if you disagree just state so and the reasons nehind that and you will find that I am capable of intelligent debate (I would hope) but don't resort to the silly name calling, it's really not necessary and a little juvenile.

 

The likelihood is now we will agree to disagree but I hope if we get promoted that you will come on here and give NA some praise for what he and the team will have achieved rather than shrug your shoulders and say "well, that was expected". I've been a manager of people in a big organisation for many years and can assure you that management of anything to the best effect is rarely an exact science regardless of the ability you have at your disposal. To be successful is always more difficult than not and credit should be given when people succeed. I hope you can admit your fears were wrong should NA succeed in the objective of promotion.

 

For now I will leave the debate there and hope for a good win against Swindon on Saturday.

[Saint_clark]

Our performances have been poor of late and it's concerning because it eventually catches up to you. I can only speak for myself but I don't give a feck about 2 points a game or any stats really. If we don't finish top 2 this season then it's embarrassing and utter failure. Adkins was brought in to get us automatic promotion, if we fail in that aim then he he has been a failure. It isn't cringeworthy as you put it, it's common sense.

 

Brighton went through a period where they didn't win for about 5 games and were playing sh*te then.

[hypochondriac]

What I am saying is there is a margin of error / misfortune at which I will think he has been unfortunate to not get us promoted after the terrible start we had, a minus ten points effective deficit. If for example NA achieved more than 2 pts per game and B'mth / Huddersfield by some miracle won 80% of their remaining games then I would feel that was exeptionally bad luck and nothing to do with our form or ability as it is out of our control. In that situation I would say he did well even though technically he failed to go up. Clearly the number of scenarios is enormous and I will base my view should he fail to get us promoted on the whole situation and not just a "well he didnt get us up so hes a failure" black and white argument.

 

It has everything to do with our form and ability. I don't think we are going to agree here but performing well is not about a points ratio, it is about outperforming our rivals. The challenge for Adkins is to outperform our rivals in such a way that we get promoted. That is the remit he accepted when he took the job. That is the one task that Cortese gave him and the task that he has repeated on numerous occasions. The fact is that it IS that black and white. I wonder if Adkins himself will consider it a failure if we do not win promotion? Or Cortese? I bet they do.

I also hope Cortese can see that he is partly responsible for our terrible start as he kept Pardew and then opted to not stick with him. That decision was nothing to do with NA and it left NA at a disadvantage and playing catch up. Fortunately, it seems that NA will catch up that deficit assuming we continue to achieve the results we have over the 24 or so games he has been in charge in our remaining fixtures. Gain the average points we have been doing in our games in hand and we will be in 2nd place. Then it all depends on who has the bottle in the last 1/3 of the season. That remains to be seen but I think we can do it. I'll stick my neck out and say that I still believe we will go up automatically.

 

Football is a results business and Adkins was brought in knowing what the situation was with regards to our start and his job for this season was to win promotion under the circumstances he found himself in when he came to take the job. Under these circumstances the beginning of the season is irrelevant. I certainly hope we are able to go up automatically, but forgive me for expressing some doubt when I look at the recent form table and when I go to places like Exeter, Tranmere, Notts County and Hartlepool and see us perform so poorly (OK I didn't go to Hartlepool). I held my hand up during the christmas run and thought we had turned a corner but the team and manager are not immune from criticism and I will criticise them when I feel that results and performances are not up to standard (and the form table shows this is the case at the moment.)

Basically, NA is on a hiding to nothing with a large number of fans. Get promoted and they will say "so he should have" without acknowledging that he has had to pick up a shattered team and rebuild confidence and winning mentality while also bridging a significant points gap after the disastrous start we had. If we don't go up no doubt the NA out drum will bang regardless of the circumstances, final positions etc.

 

Again, this start of the season is irrelevant because Adkins was brought in to win promotion in spite of the poor start to the season, an aim that he fully agreed with and one which is completely achievable given the factors we have already discussed. I am happy to state now that if we fail to go up this year I will have serious reservations about Adkins continuing next season, given that I believe performances have not been as good as they were under Pardew in general. I firmly believe Adkins should get us promoted but also I will congratulate him should he achieve his aim (whilst only feeling slightly aggrieved should we finish behind Brighton.)

Do you acknowledge that NA has done well so far to bridge the gap left by the poor start to the season under Pardew / Wilkins? If not, then quite frankly I think you are off mark. After all, even the LMA performance ratings seem to reflect that NA is doing a good job assuming the post earlier by someone is genuine.

 

I think there would be a large range of managers who would do as good and quite a few who would do better that Adkins under the circumstances. Our squad is head and shoulders above every other one in this division, both in terms of size and strength. Given the huge disparity in quality and strength, winning most weeks and being near the top of the table is what Adkins SHOULD be achieving as a minimum. It is what my expectation was for the season (actually it was to go up as champions or if not that then to be comfortable in second so we are still below my expectations and those of the bookies from the start of the season.) and so in answer to your question I think Adkins is doing OK with a slight danger from the last few weeks based on both performances and results that he is beginning to do worse.

 

One final thing Hypo, I still maintain that just because I don't agree with you it doesn't mean I'm nuts, mental or whatever at all. It just means I view things differently to you so please don't insult my intelligence by posting what you think of me becuase I dare to hold a different view to you. This is a football message board where opinions differ. I don't know you, you don't know me so please in future if you disagree just state so and the reasons nehind that and you will find that I am capable of intelligent debate (I would hope) but don't resort to the silly name calling, it's really not necessary and a little juvenile.

 

I already said that you not agreeing with me does not make you nuts. Regardless of whether it tallies with my own opinion, I find your view that Adkins' season could not be judged a failure if he achieves a certain points per game ratio extremely odd, especially because by saying that you disagree with both the chairman and Adkins himself who have clearly outlined that this is the aim for Adkins to achieve. It is so removed from my thinking as a saints fan and a football fan in general, that it is difficult for me not to consider that viewpoint slightly abnormal. There was no name calling involved. Sorry if that offends you.

The likelihood is now we will agree to disagree but I hope if we get promoted that you will come on here and give NA some praise for what he and the team will have achieved rather than shrug your shoulders and say "well, that was expected". I've been a manager of people in a big organisation for many years and can assure you that management of anything to the best effect is rarely an exact science regardless of the ability you have at your disposal. To be successful is always more difficult than not and credit should be given when people succeed. I hope you can admit your fears were wrong should NA succeed in the objective of promotion.

 

You see I would do that and have already said I would congratulate Adkins should we win promotion. The thing is though that you won't be criticising Adkins should we fail to win promotion since you have the readymade excuse of the 'appaling start' (despite myself trying to point out that the start is irrelevant when discussing if Adkins had succeeded in what he has been brought in to do.) You can't really have it both ways and whilst credit should be given when things go well, it is not a crime to criticise when criticism is warranted. I think the recent poor run which finds us tenth in the form table is worthy of some criticism would you not say?

 

For now I will leave the debate there and hope for a good win against Swindon on Saturday.

 

I agree. We simply have to win the next two games. To not do so would be criminal.

Edited 25 February, 2011 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

Brighton went through a period where they didn't win for about 5 games and were playing sh*te then.

 

And I am sure their fans expressed doubts and criticisms as well. I would also expect more from us than Brighton considering the players and resources at our disposal. Ultimately the performances will not matter if we finish second (although it makes a bit of a mockery of this 'Southampton Style' thing which was publicised.) but when I see bad performances translating to bad results and missed opportunities, it is only natural to express concern and worry about where this season is going to end up.

Edited 25 February, 2011 by hypochondriac

[notnowcato]

And I am sure their fans expressed doubts and criticisms as well[/b

 

Agreed, I'm sure the Brighton fans who do not see the bigger picture would have expressed doubts and criticism too.

 

I'm also sure that when the Mancs drew with Birmingham and lost to Wolves recently, their fickle fans would have been questioning Sir Alex because obviously it's always the managers fault when a team fails to perform.