sadoldgit Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 A wise man once said " how many shelves are in your shed" And an even wiser man replied, "Why don't you go and count them if you really want to know, you lazy fecker."
MarkSFC Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 I think you are the only sad character if you can't enjoy anecdotes from the time when we were one of the greatest teams in the country. You are seriously deluded as well if you don't believe past glories add any value to a football club's brand. I didnt say I didnt enjoy the anecdotes, but heard them before. Without doubt the history of a football club should play a part in its "brand". However it should not define it otherwise you will be stuck with whatever impression others have of it. The media as it is nowadays rarely emphasises the past of a club when talking about current performances. Commentators and the like always seem to base thier opinion of a club on the last two or three years. E.G. "Its always a hard place to go to...Stoke".......was it when it was being relegated or playin gin the lower leagues...obviously not. etc,etc. Living in the past does no one any favours but it should never be forgotten. And how things happened before does not mean its the right way now. Decent and successful BRANDS as you put it learn from the past, evolve because of it and react to current market conditions. Dare I say it but Lawrie McMenemy (the brand) has not....Southampton Football Club is.........
aintforever Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 I didnt say I didnt enjoy the anecdotes, but heard them before. Without doubt the history of a football club should play a part in its "brand". However it should not define it otherwise you will be stuck with whatever impression others have of it. The media as it is nowadays rarely emphasises the past of a club when talking about current performances. Commentators and the like always seem to base thier opinion of a club on the last two or three years. E.G. "Its always a hard place to go to...Stoke".......was it when it was being relegated or playin gin the lower leagues...obviously not. etc,etc. Living in the past does no one any favours but it should never be forgotten. And how things happened before does not mean its the right way now. Decent and successful BRANDS as you put it learn from the past, evolve because of it and react to current market conditions. Dare I say it but Lawrie McMenemy (the brand) has not....Southampton Football Club is......... What a load of nonsense, when people talk about Keegan, Ball, Channon & co it reinforces the perception of Southampton FC being a great club, not just some 3rd tier outfit. Football clubs are all about their past glories and heritage, take Liverpool's past glories away and they are just some team who play in red up north. You can have the most modern, groundbreaking setup in the World and still embrace history and use it to add value, you're banging on about Lawrie Mac as if he was being made manager or something.
MarkSFC Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 What a load of nonsense, when people talk about Keegan, Ball, Channon & co it reinforces the perception of Southampton FC being a great club, not just some 3rd tier outfit. Football clubs are all about their past glories and heritage, take Liverpool's past glories away and they are just some team who play in red up north. You can have the most modern, groundbreaking setup in the World and still embrace history and use it to add value, you're banging on about Lawrie Mac as if he was being made manager or something. You make my point for me.....by emphasising the past of Saints and or Liverpool only really happens when the current version/brand is not doing too well. Those around the country - probably 30 or under will only have seen us generally struggle, get relegated twice, go into admin. Getting to the FA Cup final was great as a fan but as we lost itmeans nothing to non saints fans who are the important ones when it comes to the Brand. Its not so much about Cortese but he is driving a new era and has the vision to see other possibilites than those that we have had "forever". By distancing himself from those "of and in our past" he will be able to make very smart decisions. I doubt very much that he is ignoring the past or more importantly the people involved, but he has his vision let him get on with it. LM has been a big hero of mine - I grew up in the late seventies and eighties - but by continually harking back to the "good 'ol days" says everything about where the club is now. How often do you hear articles from ex Barcelona, or Manure, or Arsenal going on about "in their day"..."back then..."? Very rarely because their BRAND is current relevant and exciting. Thats what Cortese is aiming for...........
Daren W Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 You make my point for me.....by emphasising the past of Saints and or Liverpool only really happens when the current version/brand is not doing too well. Those around the country - probably 30 or under will only have seen us generally struggle, get relegated twice, go into admin. Getting to the FA Cup final was great as a fan but as we lost itmeans nothing to non saints fans who are the important ones when it comes to the Brand. Its not so much about Cortese but he is driving a new era and has the vision to see other possibilites than those that we have had "forever". By distancing himself from those "of and in our past" he will be able to make very smart decisions. I doubt very much that he is ignoring the past or more importantly the people involved, but he has his vision let him get on with it. LM has been a big hero of mine - I grew up in the late seventies and eighties - but by continually harking back to the "good 'ol days" says everything about where the club is now. How often do you hear articles from ex Barcelona, or Manure, or Arsenal going on about "in their day"..."back then..."? Very rarely because their BRAND is current relevant and exciting. Thats what Cortese is aiming for........... The fact that you continually mention the word BRAND in this post tells me all I need to know... It's a football club. Not a franchise or a brand, just a football club... We'd do well to remember that...
um pahars Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 I think you are the only sad character if you can't enjoy anecdotes from the time when we were one of the greatest teams in the country. You are seriously deluded as well if you don't believe past glories add any value to a football club's brand. Have to agree. Lawrie has the ego the size of a house, but then again I don't he could have signed the players he did and kept them under control if he hadn't!!!, but you would have to be extremely bitter and twisted if you didn't find some bits in that piece that resonated with you. The way some people are reacting you would have thought it was being suggested that Lawrie should be taking training tomorrow.
MarkSFC Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 The fact that you continually mention the word BRAND in this post tells me all I need to know... It's a football club. Not a franchise or a brand, just a football club... We'd do well to remember that... It was ainforever who used the word......
Deppo Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 What a load of nonsense, when people talk about Keegan, Ball, Channon & co it reinforces the perception of Southampton FC being a great club, not just some 3rd tier outfit. Sadly, it doesn't. Nobody, but Saints fans, gives a flying f*ck about our past. And nobody, but Saints fans (and players who have just signed for Saints), think we are "a great club". And we are a 3rd tier outfit. Look at the leagues. Stop kidding yourself.
um pahars Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 You make my point for me.....by emphasising the past of Saints and or Liverpool only really happens when the current version/brand is not doing too well. Those around the country - probably 30 or under will only have seen us generally struggle, get relegated twice, go into admin. Getting to the FA Cup final was great as a fan but as we lost itmeans nothing to non saints fans who are the important ones when it comes to the Brand. Its not so much about Cortese but he is driving a new era and has the vision to see other possibilites than those that we have had "forever". By distancing himself from those "of and in our past" he will be able to make very smart decisions. I doubt very much that he is ignoring the past or more importantly the people involved, but he has his vision let him get on with it. LM has been a big hero of mine - I grew up in the late seventies and eighties - but by continually harking back to the "good 'ol days" says everything about where the club is now. How often do you hear articles from ex Barcelona, or Manure, or Arsenal going on about "in their day"..."back then..."? Very rarely because their BRAND is current relevant and exciting. Thats what Cortese is aiming for........... Brand, brand, brand. I would like to think we're a Club, not a brand. And if you look at Manchester United, Barcelona & Arsenal, then I would wager that they are very conscious of their past and look to be as inclusive of it as possible. The 50th anniversary fo Munich for United was a big thing (as have been other parts of their history, including honouring and recognising their past greats), whereas for Barcelona their history is an integral part of the Catalan way of life. You only have to take a trip around their museum and the city itself to see what a part Barca has played throughout history. And Arsenal don't seem too worried about their past if you take a trip around their museum (I was priviledged to be given a tour by Charlie George on a corporate a couple of years back).
MarkSFC Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 Brand, brand, brand. I would like to think we're a Club, not a brand. And if you look at Manchester United, Barcelona & Arsenal, then I would wager that they are very conscious of their past and look to be as inclusive of it as possible. The 50th anniversary fo Munich for United was a big thing (as have been other parts of their history, including honouring and recognising their past greats), whereas for Barcelona their history is an integral part of the Catalan way of life. You only have to take a trip around their museum and the city itself to see what a part Barca has played throughout history. And Arsenal don't seem too worried about their past if you take a trip around their museum (I was priviledged to be given a tour by Charlie George on a corporate a couple of years back). you misunderstand. c'est la vie.
aintforever Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 How often do you hear articles from ex Barcelona, or Manure, or Arsenal going on about "in their day"..."back then..."? Very rarely because their BRAND is current relevant and exciting You clearly do not have a clue, the Man Utd brand is built on tradition and heritage and doesn't effect in any way how the club is run.
um pahars Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 (edited) you misunderstand. c'est la vie. So what were you saying with this then???: by emphasising the past of Saints and or Liverpool only really happens when the current version/brand is not doing too well............................... How often do you hear articles from ex Barcelona, or Manure, or Arsenal going on about "in their day"..."back then..."? Very rarely I would conjecture that they are three clubs who are extremely proud (and quite rightly boastful of their history) and who recognise its value to the Club, its supporters and community and who hold it in high esteem and who don't only recognise their history when they are not doing too well. PS As for how often do you hear articles going on about their day, then I typed in Denis Law in to Bing and in the last year got: 1) A 2010 pre Derby story about how he was inconsolable about scoring that goal 20 years ago 2) How the Wayne Rooney saga of last Autumn reminded him of his dispute with Matt Busby 3) How he feels sorry for Berbatov, but all strikers including those of the past have lean periods 4) How last months derby will compare with the derbies of old under Mercer and Busby in the Mail, Telegraph, Mirror etc etc etc Edited 23 February, 2011 by um pahars
MarkSFC Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 You clearly do not have a clue, the Man Utd brand is built on tradition and heritage and doesn't effect in any way how the club is run. I think you maybe the one who does not have a clue. Man U is completely run the way it is because it is the biggest brand in football based on its history. If Saints are run based on its history then there is a very small potential for development.
hypochondriac Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 If we go the way of united in terms of how the "brand" (hah!) is run then count me out.
Deppo Posted 23 February, 2011 Posted 23 February, 2011 I think that, in light of recent posts, we all hope that we go the way of United in terms of how the "brand" (hah!) is run.
Daren W Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Well at least I know where we stand, I can chuck out all my Saints books, old programmes etc as this season is all that counts... It's all about the brand apparently, we can can ignore our history completely... The fact that without their history Man Utd etc wouldn't be the clubs they are today is lost on some people... (rolly eyed thingy)
chrisobee Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Well at least I know where we stand, I can chuck out all my Saints books, old programmes etc as this season is all that counts... It's all about the brand apparently, we can can ignore our history completely... The fact that without their history Man Utd etc wouldn't be the clubs they are today is lost on some people... (rolly eyed thingy) Yep, if you listen to certain people on here Daren. But then again you cannot argue with stupidity, just ignore it and believe in your own feelings and opinions. Nothing or nobody will take away my fantastic memories of the late 60's. 70's and 80's.Most of this thread, if I am being totally honest, is utter nonsense.
OldNick Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 LM was IMO the greatest ever Saints manager and i was privilaged to watch Saints whilst he was in charge. Post his management i believe he rarely covered himself in glory, but i can't help enjoy watching his interviews as he sparkles. I still smart how he left us for Sunderland, and i lost so much respect for him then, and now the politics is another constant nag. If i had my way a stand or suite would be named after him and he would be welcome at the club, but i won't stand for him sniping away at the football club as that is bigger than any person who has ever represented us. PS My father would have said Ted Bates was our best manager as he loved Charlie Wayman and Terry Paine and saw us go up the leagues. I suspect many of the young fans feel WGS was a great manager for us. History is important but it is hre and now that regenerates the fans of tomorrow and so these next few weeks months and years are going to be oh so important.
NickG Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Is it wrong that I enjoyed his time here, watching him walk out at the Dell shaking hands and the football he then delivered, but have no interest in what he says now?
Frank's cousin Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Thing is, I am not quite sure where some get the impression that club is ignoring its past... Look at the Ex players (cup winners) on the pitch against Man U, the current strip etc. The simple fact is that NC has an issue with THREE folks from our past - and If Duncan gets his book out soon with an interseting title (;-) ) we will see its £ out of about 1000+. Its just made an issue of because those 3 were so important to our history and have such a strong place in all Saints fans hearts - which is why it is such a shame. NO ONE wants to bash LM or MLT or even Frannie, and MOST dont want to bash NC, even those that take LMs perspective. But IMHO, the ones currently talking in the media and continuing to take small digs when they get the opportunity are LM and MLT... They have the power to stop it - and by their ACTIONS would demonstrate that they want to put it behind them and to bed, as their words currently dont say this. My questions remains - what are they hoping to gain from it? Surely they must know NC is unlikely to chnage his mind on a few things by these digs? Only a change of approach will soften any stance. I dont think it escapes anyones notice that the issues are only with those who were involved in some way with past regimes...and Frannie who is Matty's mate? So hardly a case of the club ignoring its past. Oh and every CLUB has a 'brand' 'image' and culture that it is known for so dont be frightened of the word - its just a word that combines those traits, WITH its history and CURRENT situation. ...AND it is important if we want to appeal to the next generation of fans who have no investment or knowledge of the past - they need to feel things are positive and on the up, or parents will be sheling out for Man U kits rather than Saints ones. Seems to me some fans dont get the fact that you cant have it all... If we as we progress want to have a 'brand' /culture/reputation, that allows us to keep and attract good players so that the CLUBs ambitions are realised, we need to build on the past but not let it dictate our future. We have to be honest. We had a few successful years at a time when wage differences meant even we could afford a European player of the year on £150k A YEAR... and by getting that combination right, of youth and experience we did amazingly well... but like Forest and a few few others of similar size, you cant live on that for ever... look where we are now - all passed glories wont help us out of league 1. All they have done, is indicate to ML and NC that we were a CLUB worth saving.
Frank's cousin Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 Is it wrong that I enjoyed his time here, watching him walk out at the Dell shaking hands and the football he then delivered, but have no interest in what he says now? Not at all - each generation will have its moments and memories that are personal to us. That period between 76 and 86, probably holds the most memories for me, but part of it is alos down to the fact I wet from 6 to 16 years old in that time so I literally grew up during Lawrie's tenure - which is why its such a shame now that he cant put his ego to one side and embrace what the club is now trying to do...
AussieDog Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I THINK I enjoyed going to last years JPT Final - but it's in the past so I've wiped it from my memory bank as nothing else matters other than the next game.
MarkSFC Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 LM was IMO the greatest ever Saints manager and i was privilaged to watch Saints whilst he was in charge. Post his management i believe he rarely covered himself in glory, but i can't help enjoy watching his interviews as he sparkles. I still smart how he left us for Sunderland, and i lost so much respect for him then, and now the politics is another constant nag. If i had my way a stand or suite would be named after him and he would be welcome at the club, but i won't stand for him sniping away at the football club as that is bigger than any person who has ever represented us. PS My father would have said Ted Bates was our best manager as he loved Charlie Wayman and Terry Paine and saw us go up the leagues. I suspect many of the young fans feel WGS was a great manager for us. History is important but it is hre and now that regenerates the fans of tomorrow and so these next few weeks months and years are going to be oh so important. Very good post! Sums up my ramblings very well, thanks!
dubai_phil Posted 24 February, 2011 Posted 24 February, 2011 I THINK I enjoyed going to last years JPT Final - but it's in the past so I've wiped it from my memory bank as nothing else matters other than the next game. I'm told I went to the JPT final last season but for some reason it got wiped from my mind on the train ride home after the 476th Pint of Real Ale. Glad it wasn't important after all that
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