dune Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Who the hell would want to be in your gang? I most certainly wouldn't want to be in your gang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 (edited) Us 'liberal types' are perfectly happy to live and let live - that's what it's all about. The only things that get a rise from us our: When anyone or anything is negatively affected by the excesses of another. Intolerance.Let's face it, if you support either of those things, you're an @rse anyhow. If you don't then you won't have any problems from us sandal-wearing beardy people (sic). Wish there was some form of gameshow 'fail' sound effect I could reply with; the Family Fortunes 'duh-duh' would be perfect for your above post. Liberals aren't Socialists by any stretch of the imagination, they also tend to stick by their moral position - unlike many others. I for example don't drive, and don't eat meat. Doing what I say, and doing what I do are very much one in the same thing. And who decides how much is too much? Who decides when it is correct to be tolerant? AS TDD says do the liberals respect the EDL right for freedom of speech? and the BNP for that matter. Edited 10 February, 2011 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 I like deppos replies... if it disagrees, it just floods a thread with unfunny drivel... I thought this was the lounge, not the deppo muppet show you are such a boring pr1ck That's an interesting and thoughtful argument. A little aggressive, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 do the liberals support the EDLs right to free speech..? Are you saying "the liberals" don't have a right to freely respond with what they feel about the EDL? Bit hypocritical to hold up free speech as a paragon of society and at the same time allude to the fact that "the liberals" can't say what they feel in response, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Are you saying "the liberals" don't have a right to freely respond with what they feel about the EDL? Bit hypocritical to hold up free speech as a paragon of society and at the same time allude to the fact that "the liberals" can't say what they feel in response, isn't it? Oh we are overun with them telling us what they think of the EDL, however they are only excercising their rights. If we are as tolarent as we like to think we are then we should listen to their voice and applaud them without condemation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Oh we are overun with them telling us what they think of the EDL, however they are only excercising their rights. If we are as tolarent as we like to think we are then we should listen to their voice and applaud them without condemation. FFS if it's not paedophilia it's the EDL... you attach an emotive subject to an argument that you are unable to debate reasonably. Why would I applaud the EDL? I've seen first hand what the EDL are capable of, no reasonable action group should act violently to innocent by standers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 FFS if it's not paedophilia it's the EDL... you attach an emotive subject to an argument that you are unable to debate reasonably. Why would I applaud the EDL? I've seen first hand what the EDL are capable of, no reasonable action group should act violently to innocent by standers. As i said on the other the thread. You lot are liberal, you want a tolerant society, you helped create it. The EDL are only standing up and marching for their beliefs. Give the society you want they should be applauded. Or is it a case of they can only march if it is for what you want them to believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 I refuse to believe that Turkish is that thick that he believes what he is actually writing. It's a bloody good wind-up though. Fair play, Turkish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 I refuse to believe that Turkish is that thick that he believes what he is actually writing. It's a bloody good wind-up though. Fair play, Turkish. People cant have it both ways, in a tolerant society it would be hypocritical to condemn the EDL for marching for their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 So, I'm ignorant, because I don't agree with Homosexuality, give it a rest. I suspect there are many things you disagree with, are you also to be classed as ignorant. What a world we live in, when we all have to conform to some liberal thinking. Why are you anti-gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 People cant have it both ways, in a tolerant society it would be hypocritical to condemn the EDL for marching for their beliefs. Lol! Good one, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 As i said on the other the thread. You lot are liberal, you want a tolerant society, you helped create it. The EDL are only standing up and marching for their beliefs. Give the society you want they should be applauded. Or is it a case of they can only march if it is for what you want them to believe in? Standing up, marching, punching innocent mothers.... yep, great day out and most suitable way to get your political points across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Standing up, marching, punching innocent mothers.... yep, great day out and most suitable way to get your political points across. indeed...the students were far worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Standing up, marching, punching innocent mothers.... yep, great day out and most suitable way to get your political points across. It seems to work as you are all talking about them. Although strangely in a condeming way. I'd have thought you'd be throwing around the superlatives at the effective way they are making themselves known in this tolerant society you have longed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 indeed...the students were far worse It's ironic how the lefties make things up to try to discredit the EDL by saying things like they punch innocent mothers, yet they don't mention the students actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 It's ironic how the lefties make things up to try to discredit the EDL by saying things like they punch innocent mothers, yet they don't mention the students actions. Exactly, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 February, 2011 It's ironic how the lefties make things up to try to discredit the EDL by saying things like they punch innocent mothers, yet they don't mention the students actions. because some people will believe anything if it fits with their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 That's exactly right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 And who decides how much is too much? That is what we have law courts for, to arbitrate. Who decides when it is correct to be tolerant? It's always correct to be tolerant, until the point you are adversely affected by the actions of another. As such, there isn't a need for anyone to decide when it is correct to be tolerant - you do so until you (or another) is wronged. AS TDD says do the liberals respect the EDL right for freedom of speech? and the BNP for that matter. I am very much of the opinion that Freedom of Speech needs to be upheld - but obviously, Weimar Germany should have clamped down on that Hitler chap's Free Speech for the good of greater society. Therein lies the problem. Do you maintain the principle of Freedom of Speech, or do you seek to protect society? Personally, I believe you need to have faith in society to find the abhorrent objectionable, even if this risks the abhorrent gaining supporters and potentially power. It's especially difficult when the abhorrent masks its true identity behind slick PR, and cleverly worded 'mission statements'. Thankfully, while they are followed by skinheads in hockeymasks they don't stand much chance of convincing 90% of the country. Hopefully, if we give the EDL enough rope, the public will see them for what they are, and rally against them. If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 Originally Posted by Gingeletiss So, I'm ignorant, because I don't agree with Homosexuality, give it a rest. I suspect there are many things you disagree with, are you also to be classed as ignorant. What a world we live in, when we all have to conform to some liberal thinking. Why are you anti-gay? Id imagine its an insecurity issue poossibly steming from his ginger pubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 10 February, 2011 Share Posted 10 February, 2011 It's ironic how the lefties make things up to try to discredit the EDL by saying things like they punch innocent mothers, yet they don't mention the students actions. still sticking up for your racist mates stanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I suppose the attacks on innocent families in Leicester by racist thugs is ok because of the students actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mao Cap Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I imagine that if I was a kid in care, then the cruel life of poverty and petty crime awaiting 99% of children like me wouldn't bother me at all. Being adopted by a couple of unimaginably wealthy gayboys - now that's what would really scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I suppose the attacks on innocent families in Leicester by racist thugs is ok because of the students actions. Violence is violence, yet somehow you seem to justify it when its the students or a group that fit into your agenda, yet condemn it when it's one that doesn't. Surely it's the same thing, regardless of who does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Violence is violence, yet somehow you seem to justify it when its the students or a group that fit into your agenda, yet condemn it when it's one that doesn't. Surely it's the same thing, regardless of who does it? The legitemacy of the student argument was slightly undermined when it became violent. Violence can never be acceptable. At least the student leaders rallied against those students who became violent. Can the EDL say the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 The legitemacy of the student argument was slightly undermined when it became violent. Violence can never be acceptable. At least the student leaders rallied against those students who became violent. Can the EDL say the same? I wouldn't know, i am not especially interested in what the EDL do. However the level of violence between the two groups is massively different. I cant ever remember a member of the EDL being jailed for 3 (?) years because of the violent actions in a protest, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Violence is violence, yet somehow you seem to justify it when its the students or a group that fit into your agenda, yet condemn it when it's one that doesn't. Surely it's the same thing, regardless of who does it? So while those who supported the students' cause have already condemned the violence (only you chose not to see that to suit your bilious point of view), you have still failed to condemn the violence that was visited on Asian men and woman and their businesses and property at EVERY EDL 'rally' (ie gang meet-up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I suppose the attacks on innocent families in Leicester by racist thugs is ok because of the students actions. I'm surprised that Elton's violent outbursts and drug taking are OK because he gives loads of money to charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Violence is violence, yet somehow you seem to justify it when its the students or a group that fit into your agenda, yet condemn it when it's one that doesn't. Surely it's the same thing, regardless of who does it? Where have I justified the use of violence? You are incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion.... it's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 So while those who supported the students' cause have already condemned the violence (only you chose not to see that to suit your bilious point of view), you have still failed to condemn the violence that was visited on Asian men and woman and their businesses and property at EVERY EDL 'rally' (ie gang meet-up). I think you'll find i said above violence is violence, regardless of who carries it out, so making no diffenciation between the actions of the two groups. So please, stop trying to insuniate that my arguement has some sort of racist undertone to it when i am simply saying that given the fact that you all believe in freedom of speech and live and let live then EDL have as much right to take to the streets as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I'm surprised that Elton's violent outbursts and drug taking are OK because he gives loads of money to charity. Still waiting for that list of your indiscretions Hypo. Must be a long one for you to have taken so many hours to produce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Where have I justified the use of violence? You are incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion.... it's as simple as that. Why say the attacks on families in Leciester then? Why not saying throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd from the top of a building? Why condemn the EDL violence when the student violence was much worse yet you haven't mentioned it? I am incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion yet you keep coming back for more. I've got you thinking haven't I. The Students take to the streets there was violence, the UAF take to the streets there was violence, the industrial unions have taken to the streets in the past there was violence and the EDL take to the streets and there is violence, all have a right to express their views, all have resulted in violence, yet you chose to only condemn one group. Why? They are as entitled to their view as much as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Why say the attacks on families in Leciester then? Why not saying throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd from the top of a building? Why condemn the EDL violence when the student violence was much worse yet you haven't mentioned it? I am incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion yet you keep coming back for more. I've got you thinking haven't I. The Students take to the streets there was violence, the UAF take to the streets there was violence, the industrial unions have taken to the streets in the past there was violence and the EDL take to the streets and there is violence, all have a right to express their views, all have resulted in violence, yet you chose to only condemn one group. Why? They are as entitled to their view as much as anyone. Still using that cardboard? Or still learning to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I wouldn't know, i am not especially interested in what the EDL do. However the level of violence between the two groups is massively different. I cant ever remember a member of the EDL being jailed for 3 (?) years because of the violent actions in a protest, can you? Well Woollard got 2 years 8 months, and his actions with the fire extinguisher justify the sentence. Here's two examples of EDL memeber who got 2 years and 2 years 4 months respectively: http://www.channel4.com/news/convictions-point-to-rise-of-far-right-extremism There is no justification for violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Still waiting for that list of your indiscretions Hypo. Must be a long one for you to have taken so many hours to produce it. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Well Woollard got 2 years 8 months, and his actions with the fire extinguisher justify the sentence. Here's two examples of EDL memeber who got 2 years and 2 years 4 months respectively: http://www.channel4.com/news/convictions-point-to-rise-of-far-right-extremism There is no justification for violence. Not jailed for anything relating to EDL marches though were they though. Come on, find someone jailed for violence carried out at EDL marches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I'm surprised that Elton's violent outbursts and drug taking are OK because he gives loads of money to charity. In Hypo's world no parents should have previously committed an action that now they may have some regrets towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Why say the attacks on families in Leciester then? Why not saying throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd from the top of a building? Why condemn the EDL violence when the student violence was much worse yet you haven't mentioned it? I am incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion yet you keep coming back for more. I've got you thinking haven't I. The Students take to the streets there was violence, the UAF take to the streets there was violence, the industrial unions have taken to the streets in the past there was violence and the EDL take to the streets and there is violence, all have a right to express their views, all have resulted in violence, yet you chose to only condemn one group. Why? They are as entitled to their view as much as anyone. You certainly haven't 'got us thinking'. You have merely made yourself look stupid for trying to stand up for the racists. Students have a legitimate cause (whether right or wrong), with no hidden agenda. When they commit violence it is wrong, and rightfully condemed. The EDF pretend to have a legitimate cause, but it is a veneer for a nasty agenda. When they commit violence it is wrong, and rightfully condemed. There is nothing hypocritical about a libreral allowing Freedom of Speech, and using it to roundly criticise something abhorrent. There is something hypocritical about someone who claims to be ' not especially interested in what the EDL do', but who then attempts to defend them. If you aren't an EDL supporter, why are you making yourself look like a closet racist by supporting them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Not jailed for anything relating to EDL marches though were they though. Come on, find someone jailed for violence carried out at EDL marches. No, just for carrying out EDL beliefs. What's your agenda here Turkish? You have discredited any legitimacy you might have had by trying to defend this abhorrent group, and you do so hypocritically claiming to be ' not especially interested in what the EDL do'. You sir, have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 Why say the attacks on families in Leciester then? Why not saying throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd from the top of a building? Why condemn the EDL violence when the student violence was much worse yet you haven't mentioned it? I am incapable of engaging in a sensible discussion yet you keep coming back for more. I've got you thinking haven't I. The Students take to the streets there was violence, the UAF take to the streets there was violence, the industrial unions have taken to the streets in the past there was violence and the EDL take to the streets and there is violence, all have a right to express their views, all have resulted in violence, yet you chose to only condemn one group. Why? They are as entitled to their view as much as anyone. Hitler was entitled to his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 In Hypo's world no parents should have previously committed an action that now they may have some regrets towards. So if the EDL show regret towards previous actions (something which Elton has not done for many of his indiscretions) they are OK then yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 (edited) So if the EDL show regret towards previous actions (something which Elton has not done for many of his indiscretions) they are OK then yes? No, but they would have disassociated their leadership from the violence (depending upon how much you feel the regret is genuine, or for the cameras). The underlying views of the members will still be open to criticism, as will any further violence committed in their name. Stop playing devil's advocate hypo. As much as we don't see eye-to-eye, I've never thought of you stooping to the Dune-Stanley-Turkish level. Edited 11 February, 2011 by Joensuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 So if the EDL show regret towards previous actions (something which Elton has not done for many of his indiscretions) they are OK then yes? You know Elton very well Hypo. Lets not mix parenting with a facist, right wing, racist group of thugs eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 No, but they would have disassociated their leadership from the violence (depending upon how much you feel the regret is genuine, or for the cameras). The underlying views of the members will still be open to criticism, as will any further violence committed in their name. Stop playing devil's advocate hypo. As much as we don't see eye-to-eye, I've never thought of you stooping to the Dune-Stanley-Turkish level. Just putting across a different point of view. I don't support the EDL (I think they have a point but obviously go about things in the wrong way) and I'm not racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. That's what they all say. Cough up, hypo. We want to hear of all your misdeeds so we can line up and condemn them as if we, like you, were in Salem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 That's what they all say. Cough up, hypo. We want to hear of all your misdeeds so we can line up and condemn them as if we, like you, were in Salem. I'm not adopting a child so what relevance does that have to anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 I'm not adopting a child so what relevance does that have to anything? So no child adoption. What else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 No, just for carrying out EDL beliefs. What's your agenda here Turkish? You have discredited any legitimacy you might have had by trying to defend this abhorrent group, and you do so hypocritically claiming to be ' not especially interested in what the EDL do'. You sir, have problems. I am not defending them. You dont seem to be reading my posts properly, read them again. Never once have i said "good on them, take to the streets and smash up a few immigrants while you are at it" Check my posts, i've neither condemned nor condoned them in these posts. It is typical of this board that if you dont outwardly agree with the majority and are not against something the forum superstars are against then you must be for it. I was accused of homophobia because i didn't agree with Elton John adopting a child, now i am being accussed of defending the EDL because i haven't said i dont support them or agree with them. As i said above, i am not particularly interested in what they do, i dont care much for them and are as relevant to me as the student protests. I am not a student so am not currently bothered if they have to pay fees or not, apply the same logic and you'll get my views on the EDL. However like it or not they are entitled to a view given the society we live in, which you lot wanted. Freedom of speech and expression. I am simply making the point that they are entitled to march and have their views as much as any other group in the country. You lot believe this, you lot believe in live and let live, you all said so on this thread. yet when it's something you dont agree with, those morals dont seem to apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 11 February, 2011 No, but they would have disassociated their leadership from the violence (depending upon how much you feel the regret is genuine, or for the cameras). The underlying views of the members will still be open to criticism, as will any further violence committed in their name. Stop playing devil's advocate hypo. As much as we don't see eye-to-eye, I've never thought of you stooping to the Dune-Stanley-Turkish level. Ridiculous comment, show me where i have said i support the EDL, other than saying, quite correctly, in this society they are entitled to their view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 11 February, 2011 Share Posted 11 February, 2011 (edited) I am not defending them. You dont seem to be reading my posts properly, read them again. Never once have i said "good on them, take to the streets and smash up a few immigrants while you are at it" Check my posts, i've neither condemned nor condoned them in these posts. It is typical of this board that if you dont outwardly agree with the majority and are not against something the forum superstars are against then you must be for it. I was accused of homophobia because i didn't agree with Elton John adopting a child, now i am being accussed of defending the EDL because i haven't said i dont support them or agree with them. As i said above, i am not particularly interested in what they do, i dont care much for them and are as relevant to me as the student protests. I am not a student so am not currently bothered if they have to pay fees or not, apply the same logic and you'll get my views on the EDL. However like it or not they are entitled to a view given the society we live in, which you lot wanted. Freedom of speech and expression. I am simply making the point that they are entitled to march and have their views as much as any other group in the country. You lot believe this, you lot believe in live and let live, you all said so on this thread. yet when it's something you dont agree with, those morals dont seem to apply. Racist.... I'm entitled to my opinion . Where on this thread has anyone condoned violent behaviour be it by students or a group of racists? Edited 11 February, 2011 by notnowcato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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