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Elton John and his boyfriend adopt


Turkish

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Do you honestly not think that a child does not miss out on anything by not having an ever present mother (or motherly figure?) Despite extensive studies suggesting otherwise? (and no I am not going to hunt on the internet to find relevant literature, it is all available should you wish.)

 

well, mine clearly havent. dont need to google that, i have 4 seperate cases right in front of me

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Right, so you know before you decide to adopt that your child won't at any stage become bullied for your love of Saints. Sure, you can mitigate against it happening, but you can't prevent it from happening.

 

 

Yes, unfortunately you are right. However, as I have pointed out there are numerous other reasons why a child might be bullied, and it is impossible to remove the risk altogether. Should fat people be allowed to adopt? What about ugly people? Honestly, your argument is entirely flawed.

 

In some cases I'm sure you are right. In the vast majority you are wrong.

 

 

 

Well that says a lot about you, but judging by the number of homosexual partners hoping to adopt it would appear that many people do indeed want children without finding women attractive. I guess the two things can't be linked.

 

 

 

Biologically that is indeed the function behind sex. However, if you have ever had a w@nk I'm sure you will understand that procreation isn't the only reason for sex.

 

How is my arguement flawed?

Children are generally happier when they are in a stable family environment with their biological parents. (obviously you will quote occasions where arseho*es who are crap parents or sucessful single parents like Just mike, but you cannot deny that this is the case for the majority of children. If it's not why does the government encourage family values?)

 

As a homosexual couple you know full well that your child will be seen as "different" your agena might not like it but it'll happen. Why all the drama about EJ's adoption if it was the norm? Yes there are a number of reason why a child can be bullied, but they are deliberately making them a target. Would you deliberately put your kid in a position where they could be bullied? I wouldn't.

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again, until you have kids and really know how things work. It's one thing working with kids but your job you leave at work, its no subsitute for the real, 24/7 thing

 

Again what do you mean by 'how things work?' Because I would argue that I am just as qualified at assessing the needs of a child through both my job (and if you think I leave my job at work you would be surprised!) through looking after my sister who was much younger than myself and through a couple of years I spent caring for my Auntie's child when she was ill.

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If the children had your surname and your name on their birth certificate, I thought that the if your partner had a different surname you actually had more bright than she did nowadays

 

name was on birth cert and they had my surname, but as i wasnt married, i had to apply to the court for parental responsibility. now it is granted automatically if name is on birth cert

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Does this hold true for all hopeful adoptees who are unable to have biological children, or just the homosexuals?

 

 

 

Yes, agreed (except for the bit in the brackets, which, currently doesn't hold true)

 

If a hetrosexual couple physically cannot have children then it is different to a same sex couple being gay and deciding they want them. I'm sorry but when you decide to become a gay then you forego the opportunity to have children.

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Again what do you mean by 'how things work?' Because I would argue that I am just as qualified at assessing the needs of a child through both my job (and if you think I leave my job at work you would be surprised!) through looking after my sister who was much younger than myself and through a couple of years I spent caring for my Auntie's child when she was ill.

 

assessing needs of a child for a job is different from assessing needs of a child from a parents perspective. When you have kids you will see what I mean.

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Not if being gay is a condition rather than a choice, it isn't. You might just as well say that you can't adopt if you are infertile. That is a condition too, not a choice.

 

How do you know? Science research says that kids raised by homosexuals are more likely to become homosexual, this suggests this is learned behaviour rather than being born that way.

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why? as i said, i have evidence, that in my situation disproves yours, doesnt make it right or wrong though, does it?

 

The majority would disagree with you. I would imagine there are anomalies but the vast amount of literature on the subject (and my extensive personal experience due to my job) suggests that a mother is important in the development of a child, purely due to a male and female's genetic makeup, their different skills, how their brains are wired differently, that they play differently, that they teach differently etc.

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The majority would disagree with you. I would imagine there are anomalies but the vast amount of literature on the subject (and my extensive personal experience due to my job) suggests that a mother is important in the development of a child, purely due to a male and female's genetic makeup, their different skills, how their brains are wired differently, that they play differently, that they teach differently etc.

 

as i said previously, in an ideal world i would have preferred them to have a mother around, that didnt happen, so I adapted and the kids turned out better (not being big-headed) than some kids from mother - father families. I think you may also find these "anomalies" are more common than you think.

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I find that strange, because when I had divorced parents in 1972, I stayed with my father and we had none of these issues, perhaps things have got less tolerant rather than more tolerant.

 

I also found it strange, as I won sole custody of my three children in 1989, with no social service involvement as such. They were interviewed by SS, but it was pretty plain sailing.

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When I have a child (you never know could be soon) I will come back to you with the exact same points. My parents had me and they believe the same thing. What would you say to them?

 

could be soon? do we need to be congratulating you?

 

And, if you are honest, i bet you dont have the same, exact points.

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When I have a child (you never know could be soon) I will come back to you with the exact same points. My parents had me and they believe the same thing. What would you say to them?

 

Considering that a woman also needs to be involved (and willing), I would say that we already do know.

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could be soon? do we need to be congratulating you?

 

And, if you are honest, i bet you dont have the same, exact points.

 

Anyway we won't agree. The only point I contend is that all children cannot benefit from a mother when growing up. You don't have to be a parent to see the numerous qualities a mother brings, many of which a man simply does not posses. Anyway well done on bringing up your children as a single parent, despite what certain lefty types think on here I was not trying to insult you.

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Kids can grow up fine with just a single male or female parent, or with gay parents or whatever. I expect there have been some serial killers who have brought kids up OK.

 

Surely adoption though is about minimizing the risks of the kid having a bad upbringing, and that must mean a stable, as "normal" as possible family would be best suited?

 

Can single straight men adopt kids? I see no difference in that than a gay couple.

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Kids can grow up fine with just a single male or female parent, or with gay parents or whatever. I expect there have been some serial killers who have brought kids up OK.

 

Are you saying gay people are as bad as serial killers?

 

Pretty terrible thing to say.

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How do you know? Science research says that kids raised by homosexuals are more likely to become homosexual, this suggests this is learned behaviour rather than being born that way.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus

 

http://www.rossde.com/editorials/childrenofgays.html

 

I don't think children raised by homosexuals necessarily become homosexual any more than children raised by straight parents necessarily become straight themselves.

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I don't see why bullying is an issue? Most kids will get bullied for something during their life, homosexual parents or not. I certainly know within my circles it wouldn't be an issue and it never would be an issue(most children/teens these days don't give a ****, the big discriminatory divide is over class, not race or sexuality). But obviously, no-one can account for everyone, but that attitude is dull because then we'd all be the same.

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I am morally against it, for the reasons i have stated above. The reason i have formed this view is because of facts, not on what the media tell me or my silly little college friends. Science proves that kids are better off with a mother and father, the courts, 90% of the time in a custody case come down on the side of the mother because they realise the importance of the mothers role in a childs upbringing. It is a fact that women are more maternal than men. The only thing that suggests same sex couple parenting is equal is political correctness. Also the fact that he is 63 means it is wrong as well, he'll be lucky to see his kid reach 20, and this is nothing to do with him being gay, i thought the same about Micheal Douglas. Come on super mikey, back up your opinion with facts and not what you've been told to think.

 

Yeah, fight the power Turkish!

 

I haven't been 'told' to think anything, this is my own opinion. I believe that as long as they love the child and care for it properly, then they are qualified to be parents. I don't think sexual orientation comes into it at all, and as for the maternal aspect - plenty of children have grown up in single parent families with only a father and not a mother and turned out to be perfectly normal people. If we don't have a direct rolemodel in our family then we find them elsewhere, through teachers, family friends, neighbours, parents of friends etc. The courts will often side with mothers because in general (IN GENERAL), the father is the working professional in the family unit, whereas in the early lives of the children, the mother is more focussed on the children and mothers will often give up work for years until their children are in full-time education. My mother gave up work when I was born, and only returned to work when both my younger brother and I were in full-time education. She left work again when my youngest brother was born, and only went back when he was in full-time education. That is the reason for the slant in custody.

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Anyway we won't agree. The only point I contend is that all children cannot benefit from a mother when growing up. You don't have to be a parent to see the numerous qualities a mother brings, many of which a man simply does not posses. Anyway well done on bringing up your children as a single parent, despite what certain lefty types think on here I was not trying to insult you.

 

yes, an agree to disagree seems sensible. thank you for your words ;)

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Yeah, fight the power Turkish!

 

I haven't been 'told' to think anything, this is my own opinion. I believe that as long as they love the child and care for it properly, then they are qualified to be parents. I don't think sexual orientation comes into it at all, and as for the maternal aspect - plenty of children have grown up in single parent families with only a father and not a mother and turned out to be perfectly normal people. If we don't have a direct rolemodel in our family then we find them elsewhere, through teachers, family friends, neighbours, parents of friends etc. The courts will often side with mothers because in general (IN GENERAL), the father is the working professional in the family unit, whereas in the early lives of the children, the mother is more focussed on the children and mothers will often give up work for years until their children are in full-time education. My mother gave up work when I was born, and only returned to work when both my younger brother and I were in full-time education. She left work again when my youngest brother was born, and only went back when he was in full-time education. That is the reason for the slant in custody.

 

Same as what my mum did. Do you feel like you benifited from having that time with your mother?

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If a hetrosexual couple physically cannot have children then it is different to a same sex couple being gay and deciding they want them. I'm sorry but when you decide to become a gay then you forego the opportunity to have children.

The old nature nurture debate. There is evidence pointing both ways, but trend in science seems to be favouring 'nature'. Personally, I think there is enough doubt to conclude that a combination of both factors lead to the outcome. Certainly there isn't evidence to support this being entirely a 'decision' as you seem to have.

 

What about people who are capable of having biological children, but who chose not to for a social reason - say to avoid further overpopulation etc. Should they be banned from adoption too?

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Can two men produce a baby ??

 

A silly argument. What you're saying is that you should only be able to adopt a baby if you can produce a baby. What about all the infertile people out there who may wish to adopt? They can't produce a baby, so should the opportunity to adopt be taken away from them?

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